SobeysBags OP t1_iuiwn4r wrote on October 31, 2022 at 5:51 PM

Reply to comment by Bywater in In the Maine News? by SobeysBags

ya, sadly true. What is a historical event in Canada, is just Tuesday in the USA. It doesn't have to be Maine police, it could Maine Politicians at least trying to help. I guess if one of the victims happened to be a Mainer (American citizen), what would the state of Maine do? Would they just sit back and let the feds take the helm, or would they be speaking out on behalf of the victim, raising funds, debating laws, pushing the feds for more enforcement and laws? However none of this is happening because the guns came from Maine, but not the victims. There is a certain amount of international relations here, especially since Maine is heavily reliant on Canadian trade and travel.

Bywater t1_iuiza6b wrote on October 31, 2022 at 6:09 PM

If you think our politicians would give a shit because one of our own got caught up in the mix you have a really unfounded view of the quality of our politicians. None of that is happening because this is 'Merica, where the first amendment lets people spew hate and incite violence; and where the 2nd amendment lets any fuckwit with a band get a AR and enough ammo to make the news into a nightmare.

ozzie286 t1_iuj06yx wrote on October 31, 2022 at 6:15 PM

What more do you want? They know where the guns came from. Not just a general area, they know the guy that gave him one and he stole 2 others from. Do you need them to trace the exact path they took across the border? Question the gun's friends and relatives to find out if they might also be planning mass shootings? It sounds like the investigation is concluded because there's nothing left to investigate.

SobeysBags OP t1_iuj6rvw wrote on October 31, 2022 at 6:58 PM

It's illegal to gift or sell firearms to a foreign national/non-resident in the USA. The shooter bought, and was gifted guns. He also stole improperly stored guns (improperly stored guns can be a crime in Maine). I'm just going off what we know and the RCMP and police in Nova Scotia, were not content with the results provided to them by US authorities (the the feds or Maine), as outlined in the article. I'm inclined to believe them, since they are trying to get answers and justice for victims.

"A senior RCMP officer, Supt. Darren Campbell, told the commission he was dissatisfied with the force's investigation of Wortman's firearms.

"In terms of those that assisted him, I would say for me, personally, I'm not satisfied that we've been able to conclude what I believe the expectations of survivors and victim families would expect and personally, me as a police officer and investigator, what I would wish to accomplish, in terms of the provision of firearms. That is the outstanding element for me," Campbell said.

A CBC News investigation earlier this year found Americans who helped Wortman obtain firearms may have violated U.S. law, but no one has been charged."

ozzie286 t1_iujrw8y wrote on October 31, 2022 at 9:23 PM

>It's illegal to gift or sell firearms to a foreign national/non-resident in the USA.

This is incorrect. Info from the ATF:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/how-do-i-export-defense-articles-including-firearms-and-ammunition#:~:text=Any%20person%20who%20wishes%20to,from%20ATF%20prior%20to%20export.

And a business set up to make the process easy:

https://www.borderview.com/services/for-individuals/usa-firearm-export-service/

SobeysBags OP t1_iujzmde wrote on October 31, 2022 at 10:21 PM

Not incorrect, and not exportation. Totally different thing. It in the article. Sorry.

In the U.S., it is illegal for an American to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport or deliver a firearm to someone they know is not a U.S. resident, which includes Canadian tourists. Anyone found in violation may face fines or up to 10 years in prison, depending on the details of the offence. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/924

ozzie286 t1_iuk3x8c wrote on October 31, 2022 at 10:55 PM

That statute is dealing with guns being transferred for the purpose of being used in a crime, not gun transfers in general. Besides, what do you think exporting is?

SobeysBags OP t1_iuk69mb wrote on October 31, 2022 at 11:13 PM

Exporting is leaving the country. Not a transfer wholly within the USA between two American citizens. In this situation one party is a foreign national with no means or desire to wait for exportation with all the costs and background checks that entails. That's the crime, knowing they would smuggle them across the border, especially in a place like houlton, which isn't exactly a firearm import/export hub, and the Canadian had no status in the usa and this is a situation where am American cannot sell or give a firearm to them. Which is the issue presented in the article, and what law enforcement believed happened. This is the RCMP conclusion, and I'm inclined to believe them, and I think the victims deserve some kind of answer and action.

ozzie286 t1_iukbgfz wrote on October 31, 2022 at 11:55 PM

The more I read those articles, the more I think they're designed to stir up discontent. They're peppered with inaccuracies and bad legal takes that make Maine and the US look worse, and completely disregard the RCMP's failings and his acquisition of RCMP uniforms and 4! clones of RCMP cars, at least one of which was so accurate that multiple RCMP officers mistook him for a fellow officer.

I'm not saying the guy did nothing wrong, but you seem to want him crucified and the whole Maine legal system overturned over what was a small part of a much larger crime.