Comments
combatbydesign OP t1_isc42rk wrote
FAKE NEWWWWSSSS!!!!
— starts shrieking —
— head starts spinning —
gulfofmainah t1_isdl2cw wrote
And forever they been wrong this talk started in the 50s saying it’s gonna collapse in the next few years because xyz
Bywater t1_isdrair wrote
Nah, pretty much the only thing they got wrong is how fast global temps are rising. I know this shit scary to think about, but denial of the obvious won't help shit.
gulfofmainah t1_isg9ael wrote
Even the most conservative estimate among environmental scientists has the Maine lobster fishery at a extremely healthy stock and warming waters are actually beneficial to the growth cycle of junivenal lobsters the alarm for collapse is no where near close and if it was than these regulations wouldn’t be suggested if the marine biologist actually thought the fishery was close to done than they wouldn’t be actively worried about entanglements because according to your research and reviews it’s about to collapse immediately.
Bywater t1_ish0ews wrote
That copium you huffing starting to affect your brain. They called this shit back in the 80's, I did a report in high school about it being the geeky little Jacque Cousteau fanboy I was. He and others from the time predicted what warming was going to do to the seas and how coupled with the death of the microbiome from pollution we were going to be in for some shit.
Then in the 90's the lobster industry in Long Island sound collapsed... Just like they predicted it would and everyone was looking for a reason instead of the obvious one that science had already provided for them. Snow crab in Alaska? Ya, that shit is done too apparently, for the same reasons. They guessed then that our industry would suffer the same fate by 2050, but with the astronomical rate of warming in our gulf the odds of it still being viable for even another decade is comically optimistic.
It will never cease to amaze me how many people refuse to listen to scientists despite was is clearly occurring right in front of them.
gulfofmainah t1_ishfw1f wrote
Well thank you for showing your maturity by making false assumptions on my brain and habits and I’m happy to know your high school based report on a study that is 40 years old is more well rounded and researched than current ongoing studies let’s look at a study done by UMaine scientists. https://www.pressherald.com/2022/06/12/umaine-scientists-see-long-term-hope-for-lobster-fishery-despite-warming-waters/
It lays out because the Gulf of Maine has unique currents, Maines abundance of tidal rivers and the large tides in the Bay of Fundy and large differences in salinity levels across water columns that the average bottom temperature even in the summer is in the mid to upper 50s which is 10 degrees cooler than the temperature known to cause stress on a lobster. Kathleen Reardon, senior lobster scientist for the Maine Department of Marine Resource has stated even under the worst case scenario we are 50 plus years away from reaching a 68 degree ocean floor temperature in the summer and that warming surface temperatures have created ideal conditions for young larval lobsters.
The full report done by Umaine
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/gcb.14778
stating the “Thermally mediated dilution hypothesis” which shows how the surface warming in the gulf does not translate to quickly warming ocean floor temperatures (ocean floor being where lobsters inhabit) in the gulf of Maine due to the several factors stated earlier. Now I’m sure Cousteau was using the best information available at the time to draw his conclusions but like all science it has to be constantly reviewed and with the current information we have the worst case view is 50 years before we enter into the conditions that won’t be ideal for lobsters.
It’s also worth adding that in the 80s when talk of the lobster stock collapsing soon to today in 2022 the estimated population of lobsters in Maine has increased 515% and the Maine Department of Marine Resources and NOAA do lots of hands on work with lobsterman, state run and federally run boats to reach these estimates each year. So while you may find my take comical several scientists and the Maine Department of Marine Resources who have vast amounts of information and combined hundreds if not thousands of hours of research each year don’t agree with your assumption.
Bywater t1_isiff6c wrote
"Still, projections are never perfect, he points out. While the projections Le Bris used captured the differences in tidal mixing, they are based on standard atmospheric effects on ocean temperature and do not reflect changing ocean current patterns in the Gulf of Maine, which Wahle said are harder to model." “I’m not sure the oceanographic forecasting is at a place yet that can project what those conditions are going to look like with respect to the relative strength of the Labrador Current and the Gulf Stream, but to the extent those trends continue, we may be seeing a worsening effect,” he said.
I mean hey, I really hope that they are right and that this unprecedented warming of the Gulf of Maine and death of micro biome won't drive lobstering offshore here. But considering how we are seeing it everywhere else the idea [that the currents that are all going to shit] (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/05/climate-crisis-scientists-spot-warning-signs-of-gulf-stream-collapse) are going to save the day might not be the best gamble. "Particularly considering how much of an effect rising temperatures not only affect biological processes but also reduce water density and thereby stratification and circulation, which affect organismal dispersal and nutrient transport. Precipitation, salinity and winds also affect stratification, mixing and circulation." What we are seeing is one of those "snowball" effects, the water temperatures rise, the microorganisms die and change the density of the water, affecting current and continuing to make things worse. That zooplankton and phytoplankton are foundational to life on this planet, when they are gone and the oceans stop acting as a raditor because of it, well, "thanks for all the fish"... That was Cousteaus unheeded warning.
[deleted] t1_ise1q7t wrote
And look what happened.
gulfofmainah t1_isgbysa wrote
What happened was the fishery turned into one of the best regulated and healthy stock fishery in America. There is no talk about the fishery collapsing anytime soon. Sustainable practices within the fishery only allow for a small percentage to be caught and sold into the market the vasty majority of lobsters stay on the ocean bottom and 100% of breading females stay on the bottom. So please explain on why you think my comment suggests anything other than flawed predictions of the fishery collapsing over the last 70 years.
LumpyBumpyToad t1_iscaocj wrote
Yes but the problems will just go away if I hate brown people and believe windmills cause cancer.
grimmowl t1_iscrmmz wrote
Some clown ass named Ed Thelander running for office also likened regulation of lobster fishing to rape....
This has ceased to actually be about lobsters, whales, lobstermen, the economy of Maine or anything of the like. Its white grievance politics. Just don't notice it ..point it out ...or care....
acrazywriter t1_isf004k wrote
What in the world does fishing have to do with race. Keep your identity politics out of a fishery regulation conversation.
combatbydesign OP t1_isby4r5 wrote
I felt it was relevant to post here, given the on-going news cycle regarding Maine's lobster industry.
FragilousSpectunkery t1_isc5gw2 wrote
It is relevant, and this type of signal is applied world-wide, as we identify indicator species. It’s one reason we study fresh water macro invertebrates, as there are warm and cold intolerant species, whereas fish, being more mobile, can escape temporarily if conditions are intolerable. Insects just die.
Lieutenant_Joe t1_isc6r0z wrote
Lobsters are crustaceans, not insects. Also, many insects do migrate (monarch butterflies, as a famous example).
These facts don’t endanger your point, as regardless of semantics, what you say is true of lobsters, but I just couldn’t resist being an asshole at least once today.
combatbydesign OP t1_isc8877 wrote
Crabs, lobsters, cockroaches, and dust mites are all of the phylum arthropoda and it's suspected that that connection is why, seemingly, people who have an allergic reaction to dust mites are more likely to have an allergic reaction to crustaceans, as well. (I'm sorry. I don't have a source other than "my wife has 14 known food allergies" or "trust me, bro", and I really don't want to look one up lol)
So, if you want to get technical/assholish: all that would have to be switched would be changed in order to clear up any semantic issues is arthropods/insects.
youve_got_moxie t1_isd5fj8 wrote
*Arthropoda
combatbydesign OP t1_isd5rhs wrote
Yeah that one.
Seppdizzle t1_iscbtn2 wrote
Monarch butterfly is endangered too...
Lieutenant_Joe t1_iscby68 wrote
Yup
Planning on planting milkweed next year in our garden
combatbydesign OP t1_iscgfip wrote
Have an up vote.
(P.S.: I upvoted your other comment too, but people are dumb.)
jellyrollo t1_iscw13z wrote
Monarch butterflies are endangered in large part because they lay their eggs on the only plants their larvae can eat, milkweeds. Habitat loss due to development of "wasteland" meadows and "weed" eradication efforts in general is the cause. Those of us who live in monarch migration paths are attempting to plant milkweed in our yards in hopes of helping to offset those losses.
But don't forget that the "charismatic" insects aren't the only ones vital to the food chain.
Seppdizzle t1_iscwzbg wrote
That's wonderful! I've planted milkweed as well, neat to see them grow and finding the cocoons :)
K8nK9s t1_ise5i84 wrote
Sad but true. Their winter habitat is endangered by illegal logging. The monarchs we see up here in Maine are the 4th step in their migration process, the largest iteration, the ones that fly all the way back to Mexico to overwinter. Some day soon the ones hatching out in the northern milkweed patches will be the last.
Seppdizzle t1_isea4qo wrote
It's so sad.
dragonslayermaster84 t1_iscnwx4 wrote
But what do they taste like boiled and buttered?
FragilousSpectunkery t1_isd0ixs wrote
Macro invertebrates are insects and don’t migrate.
Candygramformrmongo t1_isdbuvw wrote
Maine shrimp season closure is already your canary in the coal mine.
MegatonDeathclaws t1_iscq9wm wrote
I get that it’s these folks living but you have to realize that if we fish them dead there will be no more living for them to make.
GoggleField t1_isdfitu wrote
I don't know a ton about the snow crab fishery, but lobsters are not being overfished in Maine. It's actually quite sustainable and well managed. The limited licenses and trap design regulations keep the fishery healthy and the price relatively high. However, the fishery is still going to disappear as the lobster move further and further north as the gulf of Maine warms faster than basically any other salt water body. The fisherman can keep fishing responsibly, but if we don't do anything about climate change they are still fucked.
Friendly-Matter-3819 t1_isdvk7r wrote
I think with the positive feedback loops that we are getting from the 80s and 90s happening now, and how we still haven’t done much to slow climate change the feedback loops of the future probably already are enough to decimate maines lobster population regardless of what we do now sadly.
Icy-Acanthisitta8956 t1_isdxk5q wrote
Everyone should have u/MegatonDeathclaws tagged at this point. They're one of the dumbest people on this subreddit.
MegatonDeathclaws t1_iseo61e wrote
Lol fishing the lobsters until there are none left is dumb? I’m just saying I know it’s hard on the fishermen but if it means taking a year off it’s worth it in the long run. We have had to do it with Maine shrimp for a while.
GoggleField t1_ish2cka wrote
The point is that taking a year off won't do anything. The fishery is not being overfished. It's disappearing due to climate change.
[deleted] t1_iscqgdv wrote
[deleted]
Oniriggers t1_isd3mhd wrote
collapse is happening sooner then expected
combatbydesign OP t1_isdjmue wrote
Unfortunately I think it's right on schedule, but the "you're being alarmist" crowd would have you believe otherwise.
dreamsthebigdreams t1_iscycsn wrote
Hey maybe if we force all births from this point forward we will fix the food problems in our world. Hopes and prayers.
The above statement is clearly insane.
Friendly-Matter-3819 t1_isdvuo1 wrote
“These are the end days anyway. We shouldn’t worry about all the destruction we’ve caused since we’re going home anyway” - too many brainwashed religious nuts who are in power or vote the same minds into power. We are fucked.
fallingfrog t1_iscpvya wrote
Last time I went out to the islands in blue hill bay I was really surprised how much the fauna had changed. Mussels used to carpet the rocks, now almost totally gone, replaced by hermit crabs and starfish.
Not only that, but when I was little, we had never heard of “red tide”, and then it became a thing that happened occasionally, and now it’s red tide conditions pretty much all the time.
gulfofmainah t1_isdkqmu wrote
Replaced? Star fish have made a historic comeback after a couple decades of invasive green crabs. Star fish on the shore was the regular for thousands of years. Green crabs became very prevalent in the last 30-40 years in the bilge of tanker and cruise ships which also have been linked to a dozen whale deaths during the same period. I’d say the industry destroying the gulf of Maine isn’t the lobster fishery
meowmix778 t1_iscqm43 wrote
It's pretty spooky how much we've over fished the entire planet and devastated ecosystems. We need to stop it so my daughter has a place to live. In that same breath a lot of people place their entire livelihood into these industries. So government intervention is badly needed. Be it a short term payment to the fishermen or offering them free or discounted training for trades/college.
I'll liken this to the industrial revolution. At one point in our nation's history most of our people preformed agrarian work and then in short order it moved to like 10% or less because of factories. We need to take care of the people producing food but we need to help prepare them for if/when the industries dry up forever.
This isn't new. It's been a long time coming.
combatbydesign OP t1_iscr2ki wrote
If you read the article there are no claims of overfishing.
It's a question of where the crabs went, and what happened.
meowmix778 t1_isdawso wrote
Oh. I read the article. I'm just speaking in more broad terms. It's something that generally concerns me that fish are beginning to disappear and that directly threatens people's livelihoods. Maybe we as a society should do something before then.
Same goes for all of nature really.
AllYrLivesBelongToUS t1_isem80s wrote
I'd wager much of the "where they went" can be attributed to the Chinese fishing fleet. Imagine you're a whale or fish swimming about in International waters. Then an armada of 300+ fishing vessels park above and take tonnes of things that swim or crawl around you. When they leave, some species will do well because the things that eat them are sparse, while other species suffer because the things they feed on are few.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9t5MC7WXNg
>China harvests 20% of the world's entire annual catch (15.2 million tonnes). China reports it's distant ocean fishing vessels numbers 2500 but the real estimate is 17,000. In comparison the US has around 300 vessels.
2020 video/data. Chances are that the Chinese fleet has grown since then.
GlockAF t1_isczcxh wrote
There are no claims of overfishing by the US crab fleet, but on the Russian side it is a very different story
determania t1_isczosk wrote
The problem in Maine is, what jobs would they train for?
MrLeeman123 t1_isd4vf7 wrote
This is a great question and should be something our state is focused on! There is a lot of talk around utilizing the current public power movement to partner with UMO and create a new backbone of industry off a diversified energy grid. The developmental capacity needed could supply a huge number of jobs for years to come, especially if models such as the Non-Transmission Alternative in Boothbay Harbor are mimicked. By encouraging this kind of development and fostering a new, mid-income industry, these families who currently make very good money for themselves fishing would see incentives to switch to a safer and more sustainable career.
However, it shouldn’t be ignored that fishing is dying in Maine, whether we like to admit it or not. This is going to continue whether or not stocks decline. The value in our coast has been determined to be in single family housing and retirement communities. If fishing families can’t live in the municipalities they fish out of, let alone within 20 miles of one, they will of course start to look for other options. This has been part of it along with the growth of tourism, our rapidly aging population, etc. We can’t expect our current industries to absorb the impact of lobstermen vanishing though. If we leave it up to natural forces the same thing that happened to the mill workers will happen to lobstermen across our coast. I highly recommend everyone to look up the 10 year plan developed in 2020 that highlights parts of what I pointed out here. Maine is approaching a crossroad that poses major shifts in our society brought on by climate change, it’s up to us now to prepare to take the right path.
meowmix778 t1_isdajjy wrote
I mean we have the capability for most other industries from hostility, medical, insurance, trades, automotive, etc. Just the same as other states. The issue is we just have a state that focuses on hospitality and retail.
ADuhSude t1_isdsbss wrote
We absolutely do not have the ability to grow the medical industry in Maine lol.
meowmix778 t1_isf03pb wrote
One company seems fine at growing a monopoly if nothing else.
determania t1_isdar3q wrote
I feel like this is a really naive comment. Like we can just snap our fingers and reshape our economy.
meowmix778 t1_isdd80p wrote
I'm not really suggested hand out magic ✨️ wands and we all get new jobs and fiber internet and whatever else. I'm saying if we invest in our future eventually it'll be a better place.
Above I point out we should invest in jobs for the fishermen. If you put money/time/incentives into programs it'll become a net positive. If you ignore it eventually the bottom falls out.
determania t1_isddoro wrote
How do we invest in jobs for them? Lobster is a resource that brings in tons of money from outside Maine. Replacing that isn’t as simple as offering job training.
meowmix778 t1_isf0fke wrote
I mean I'll be frank. If I had the silver bullet I'd on commercials every 17 seconds hoping you voted for me, not on reddit.
But it really comes from a place of gradual change and replacement. Just like those farmers in the 1800s couldn't imagine working on factories we likely can't imagine the "next big thing".
determania t1_isf117m wrote
> So government intervention is badly needed. Be it a short term payment to the fishermen or offering them free or discounted training for trades/
So then you would agree this is an oversimplification of the issue, right? I feel like you have shifted your argument a bit since that original comment.
meowmix778 t1_isfmgsf wrote
Not at all. I'm still arguing the same point. For those in the back
Commercial fishing is not sustainable for the long term. Our economy is reliant on it. Our elected officials need to make policies to help people other than "bad fishermen, stop". In that same breath, we need drastic and immediate action to preserve our planet.
You put me in a room with 192 people or something and say "train them to do different jobs". I could probably get you there, my background is in market research/training and HR. But you get me 10,000 people I'd need help. That's reasonable for like... anyone ? Thats why we hire the government. To solve those bigger picture issues. To research and resolve the issues. To go "eeehh well I don't see good quality engineering jobs... might as well fish to extinction" is just silly
determania t1_isfn2c2 wrote
Well, you definitely are not arguing the same point, and you seem to be misunderstanding what I am saying as well. I am not saying to do nothing. I’m saying that your empty platitudes like job training are meaningless when there are no jobs to train for.
Edit: You also might want to revisit what the issue is here. It’s climate change and not overfishing.
meowmix778 t1_isfoqwy wrote
It's cause and effect. If you do nothing then nothing changes. If you invest into an economy then it changes. One of the best ways to do so is re skilling people. Jobs follow talented work forces. It's not this over night change.
And climate change is directly tied to overfishing. Or more broadly the over consumption of resources. We didn't cause climate change by consuming too little.
determania t1_isfpfgm wrote
> Jobs follow talented work forces.
I think you got that one backwards
OniExpress t1_isd0h2r wrote
Carpentry? Graphic Design? Land-based Aquaculture? How about a writer, or a journalist? If you want to stay in agricultural we've got blueberries, potatoes, maple syrup, hay, chickens, etc.
There is literally an entire planet of possible careers other than Fisherman.
determania t1_isd7ilc wrote
Obviously other careers exist. There just aren’t a lot in Maine. My point is that we need more than training for better careers, we need for better careers to exist here.
redcoat777 t1_isdaq7m wrote
Why just land based? shellfish and seaweed farming should be able to withstand then pressures of climate change somewhat robustly.
OniExpress t1_isdkivn wrote
Shellfish is kinda the whole issue here, but yeah, there are more sustainable options there too.
The point is that there are way more job options than "scrape away at natural resources. "
redcoat777 t1_isegu2c wrote
My intention was to suggest bivalve shellfish, oysters, mussels, and scallops for example. With a farm you have many more levers to pull to mitigate the impacts of the warming.
joeydokes t1_isfgd14 wrote
There's already a big scalloping industry. The DownEast institute on Bealls island is researching clams and mollusks, but nobody really likes clamming because wading in the muck sucks; even winkling is more attractive :)
K8nK9s t1_ise5vm2 wrote
It would be nice if that were true.
joeydokes t1_isffn94 wrote
Most of the kids in these small fishing communities only graduated high school by the skin of their teeth. Their future is in the trades, but there wouldn't be enough jobs to accommodate them.
My understanding is that it takes a minimum of 300 traps to break even; most working boats have 4 to 500 traps and are still in the red. The waiting list for a license (and 300 traps) is 8 years. So if you start your kid off at age 8 with a permit, by 16 years old they can become a working lobsterman.
A better education is the only way out, while most natives to the area are functionally illiterate.
gulfofmainah t1_isga58f wrote
I’m a full time lobsterman with a college education half the fisherman I know have some college or a full degree, you’re making broad blanket statements here. I know plenty of carpenters, caretakers and workers in other Maine industries who are drop outs so what’s your point?
joeydokes t1_isk3b3b wrote
You're correct that I'm over-generalizing and my apologies. My impression, spending far too many hours in harbors talking with lobstermen left me with a different impression. Yes, many are educated and well-spoke; but many/most stated they weren't cut out for classrooms and barely eeked out H.S.
I'm not saying anyone needs college , I was saying that the trades you mentioned are perfectly fine; my point being that I didn't think any given area could handle that many tradesmen w/out other economic improvements just to be able to hire them and keep them in their trade.
NyquilBasedBroth t1_itxtztr wrote
Why did you have a kid bruh
[deleted] t1_isc9diw wrote
[deleted]
combatbydesign OP t1_iscascf wrote
Pretty sure lobster fishermen are gonna care when their crops either die off or move to Newfoundland, but yeah, fuck Alaska... I guess?
Ambitious_Ask_1569 t1_iscdtkn wrote
They already do. Talk to any of them. In Alaska the money is so much bigger and it's a wholesale cull. The boat owners answer to shareholders. In Maine it's your mom and pop neighbors that own the boats. They certainly do care.
combatbydesign OP t1_iscexm8 wrote
> Right now every lobster fisherman I know in Maine couldn't give 2 shits about Alaska.
> They already do. Talk to any of them.
Either they care that the warming waters, thus the massive decline in crab populations off the Alaska coast, could be foreshadowing a similar series of events off the Maine coast (which is already underway, anyway) or they don't...
...which is it?
dragonslayermaster84 t1_isco7uw wrote
Have you ever been to Unalaska or Dutch? You don’t know what your talking about. You just spouted what’s known as dog shit.
LumpyBumpyToad t1_iscasph wrote
Good. Then no one should care about them because we all got shit going on. Wonder how America failed so bad?
[deleted] t1_iscda6a wrote
[deleted]
JStengah t1_iscghuy wrote
Doesn't have to be overfished to be facing a massive problem. Climate change doesn't care about fishing practices.
LumpyBumpyToad t1_iscf65e wrote
I got my own shit going on though? Why should I care about the lobsterman? They don't care about anyone else's problems, remember?
hike_me t1_iscnsn2 wrote
The gulf of Maine is warming rapidly. Lobsters are moving north (its a dying industry in southern New England). The danger is that the population continues to shift north and the fishery in Maine collapses because there are no longer enough lobster to support the size of the commercial fishery.
Fishermen, however, are adamantly against off-shore wind, which would help reduce fossil fuel use.
determania t1_isczfqx wrote
I was talking to some researchers this summer who are very concerned about larval lobster abundance the last couple years along the southern coast of Maine. It takes a lobster about 7 years to reach keeper size. Overfishing or not, they should be concerned about the future of the fishery.
[deleted] t1_isd3iot wrote
[deleted]
kowz76 t1_iscvlvc wrote
Climate change certainly has and will continue having an effect on the lobster industry but if you talk to any fisherman they will be far more concerned about things like whale regulations.
Your title also suggests that whatever happens in the Bering Sea will happen in the gulf of Maine. The article makes no such correlation.
combatbydesign OP t1_iscw6el wrote
> Climate change certainly has and will continue having an effect on the lobster industry.
Literally my entire point.
> Your title also suggests that whatever happens in the Bering Sea will happen in the gulf of Maine. The article makes no such correlation.
I didn't claim the article did make any such correlation.
I probably should have made the title longer to include the actual headline (either that or Reddit should get it's mobile posting options together).
kowz76 t1_isczjg7 wrote
Your title would suggest that the lobster stocks will meet the same fate as snow crab
combatbydesign OP t1_isczr08 wrote
Okay? Because that's what I'm suggesting...
"The potential effects climate change has had on crab populations could be indicative of what will happen with lobster" ≠ "the article says there's a correlation between Alaska and Maine fisheries"
cepheus42 t1_iseb2pm wrote
Yes. Are you struggling to understand the correlation here? It's pretty simple: fishing areas are changing rapidly due to climate change, and the shellfish industry is an early indicator of the growing crisis. What is happening to snow crabs could be an indicator of what will soon happen to the lobster industry.
None of this is hard to understand or incorrect. Scientists and policy makers routinely extrapolate from incomplete data to draw conclusions, and so far it's turned out the climatologists who have warned us since at LEAST the 1950's of this problem have been dead right on.
And still we do nothing. Because fuck the world, fuck us, let's let the entire food chain collapse and twist and morph disrupting our ability to feed 7 billion people even as we demand higher birth rates to create "growth" for the corporations who are dragging us into this shitty abyss. Starvation and mass deaths is in our near future, but hey... corporations don't care, that's the price we pay for "free markets" and our "free dumbs!"
GoggleField t1_isdgygb wrote
You should do a quick Google on the rate of water temperature warming in the gulf of Maine.
lemur_dance t1_isd76pa wrote
We are fucked. Lobsters in Maine are next. This is terrible news.
Salty_cabbage69 t1_isetfto wrote
What’s next, blueberries??
MSCOTTGARAND t1_iscmd5j wrote
Listen if we are going to do this then we need to do it right and subsidize the fisheries. We really don't need fuckin shell fish but we cannot let whole industries and towns die because of it. Set a transition period and pay every fisherman the average of their last 3 seasons.
[deleted] t1_isdcti0 wrote
[deleted]
GoggleField t1_isdhgs2 wrote
Your assumptions about lobstermen are not rooted in reality. The lobster fishery in Maine has been so sustainable because the lobstermen don't fight for more effective traps or other more lenient laws, knowing that those things will eventually kill their livelihood. These are people whose parents lived through the collapse of the cod fishery, and have no interest in seeing the same thing happen to lobster.
Sure, they might think Antifa did J6. That doesn't mean they are irresponsible with the lobster fishery.
Cockroach-Jones t1_isd6ymb wrote
The crabs have likely moved farther up north than the boats will travel. That and/or moved into Russian waters. They prefer colder waters.
hike_me t1_isex09f wrote
The cod fishery collapsed. The shrimp fishery collapsed. It’s naive to think the currently sustainable lobster fishery will remain so forever. Fewer lobsters thanks to a rapidly warming gulf combined with the same number of traps being dropped is probably not going to end well.
There has been speculation that the collapse of the cod population helped the lobster fishery continue to land large hauls because there is less predation of juvenile lobster. What happens when some warmer water fish moves up here and takes the place of the cod?
gulfofmainah t1_isgg76o wrote
Comparing the Cod Fishery or Shrimp Fishery to the Lobster Fishery is comparing two completely different things. If it be net fishing for Cod or hooking the vast majority caught was kept while the vast majority of lobster caught in traps are realized because of min and max size restrictions and 100% of breeding females are released. Saying the Shrimp fishery has collapsed isn’t a truthful statement Canada still has a thriving fishery Maine could as well but it’s a three state council that decides the shrimp season and quota and for a decade now Mass and NH have voted no on opening the season and Maine has voted yes and has backed it up with data collected by the Maine DMR showing the healthy stock within Maine waters. The shrimp have moved into more Northern waters of the gulf but have no disappeared. You can go to any seafood store and buy gulf of Maine day boat frozen shrimp from Canada. Beyond that if it had collapsed it’s because net dragging for shrimp catches and harvest every shrimp be it small big male female while trap based shrimp fishery only harvest non egg bearing shrimp because they stay further up in the water column while carrying eggs and only go to the sea bed to release them. Maine has very strictly regulated fishery with sustainability and visibility as the base of all state regulations. On a average day lobsterman throw back into the ocean alive 10x as many as they keep.
SnooCats7847 t1_iscuth6 wrote
And maybe Jonah crabs are in danger too!!!!
dragonslayer137 t1_iseji9t wrote
No edible sealife will be left withing next 5 years maybe.
I had some super smart guy who cared about whales explain it to me in 2007.
2003 I tested the beaches for cdc doh. Found out the oceans are so toxic you need to stay 2 miles away from the shoreline.
Easier to terraform another planet than to clean this one.
MrLeeman123 t1_isd1ylh wrote
Maine lobster industry is stable… for now. It’s our neighbors to the south that should be concerned for the immediate future. We won’t be seeing this kind of impact until the middle of the century. The great news is that gives us plenty of time to prepare!
At this point we should be both supporting the lobster industry we have, but also encouraging it’s transition to new industries. Training programs for aquaculture have had a measurable affect in shifting lobstermen away from the field. As well, the 10 year plan put forward a couple years ago highlights a great way to partner with our universities to retrain our workforce and diversify our economy on the backbone of a new fishing and energy-based industrial sector. It would do wonders to both help prepare the hard working men and women who have supported our state for years transition and avoid the insane damage this snow crab die off will have on Alaskan families, as well as alter our energy consumption patterns to be more sustainable as we navigate this ever intensifying climate crisis.
So yes, while this shouldn’t be ignored. We shouldn’t make the lobstermen out to be the villains they are portrayed as being…. Yet.
combatbydesign OP t1_isd2745 wrote
> We shouldn’t make the lobstermen out to be the villains they are portrayed as being…
Nobody on this post (or in the article) is claiming lobstermen are villains...
MrLeeman123 t1_isd3d11 wrote
Yeah not the whole point really and I wasn’t necessarily saying you were. Many in the current debate have been doing so though and it is disingenuous to the efforts lobstermen have put in over the years to ensure their industry’s sustainability. They are not perfect, we should still be concerned and focus on the issues this article and the 10 year plan discuss, I just wanted to add that point because they really have been getting an unfair dragging through the mud in this current fight.
[deleted] t1_isf8kfg wrote
[deleted]
NDawgNation207 t1_isd7b6l wrote
The fishing industry is dying. Life goes on
WangnanJahad t1_isdz0sn wrote
I question why? There's been no indication that lobster populations are just going to up and disappear. We've been extremely good about maintaining a sustainable industry since the 80s. And we don't have any clue what happened up in Alaska. Until we do, this is fear mongering at best.
combatbydesign OP t1_isdzpwm wrote
HopeFantastic2066 t1_isc7tht wrote
So potential changes for businesses in the winter? We barely serve lobster in the winter, they are breeding.. Our menus are season related, crab is from the west coast or south.
combatbydesign OP t1_isc8juo wrote
If that's what you want to take away from this that's your prerogative, I guess?
200Dachshunds t1_iscbqsk wrote
Well, if I were a lobsterperson these days, I'd be eyeing ways to diversify or divest. Probably not the worst idea with the way time and tides are going.
hike_me t1_iscne6k wrote
The point is the gulf of Maine is warming rapidly and lobster populations are shifting north. It’s a dying industry is southern New England. If the trend continues the lobster fishery in Maine could rapidly collapse as the population shifts north towards cooler waters (like the snow crabs).
Bywater t1_isc1xv0 wrote
I mean, its not like people have not been predicting this shit forever.