Comments
MoldyNalgene t1_j1ynwvf wrote
The pay in Maine is garbage for the COL in the southern part of the state. You add Maine's exceedingly high taxes to the mix, and it's no surprise young people are leaving. Employers in Maine need to pay more, and the state needs to reduce taxes for the younger generations if they want to develop a better economy.
lucidlilacdream t1_j1ytynj wrote
We actually moved here from Arizona, and I assumed the taxes would be much higher since it’s the northeast. But, taxes are surprisingly pretty comparable.
Cost of living, in general, is higher though. I agree local wages are low compared to the COL as well. Usually as COL rises, pay does as well. Maine employers don’t seem to get that. Remote work is really the only way to make it work, unless you are in a high demand, highly skilled healthcare field.
ralphy1010 t1_j1yx5kg wrote
that's been a thing for a while now, people can't understand why no one is interested in the min wage job with no benefits they are advertising. Instead they cry how no one wants to work anymore.
w1nn1ng1 t1_j1zhpip wrote
It’s pretty crazy how brainwashed they have us. I’m a network engineer by trade. In Maine, at my peak, I was making around $80k. I was constantly told I was overpaid and that I didn’t work hard enough. Fast forward to today. I now work for a company based out of San Francisco. When they offered me my job, I figured they start me at around $70k. I was astonished when they offered me $90k and apologized they couldn’t offer more. I’ve been here for two years. I work half as hard as I used to and my boss is over the moon with my performance. It’s bizarre. Maine employers are just shit level.
lucidlilacdream t1_j20b8eg wrote
It doesn’t help that many people have never left the state or New England. Hopefully this changes over time, but there’s definitely some idea that you should just be glad to have a job and have no problem working overtime simply because you are employed, which is pretty short sighted given the labor shortage…
metalandmeeples t1_j1yyf1r wrote
Aren't property taxes significantly lower in AZ? I'm sure it's dependent on the municipality, but my parents are paying 4x the property tax since moving back home. AZ also has much lower income tax, no excise tax on vehicles, etc. Sales tax is much higher though.
lucidlilacdream t1_j1yzz2w wrote
Maybe it depends on the town? Our property taxes are pretty much identical in Brunswick as they were in Arizona, and we were in Tucson, so not Scottsdale or something. I’m sure taxes are higher in Portland and the nearby towns.
The income tax is really about the same. I was very surprised when I got my first paycheck, I assumed I would be paying a lot more in taxes. It is slightly higher, but nothing compared to friends that moved from AZ to California and Minnesota. It’s really not much of a notable difference, except that the K-12 schools are much better funded here.
Food is a lot more expensive, and heating is expensive. Car maintenance is more because of winter. So, in general COL, yes, is higher.
metalandmeeples t1_j1z1577 wrote
Brunswick has a high mill rate but, generally speaking, the average property tax burden of each resident increases every step south until you hit Falmouth. Even though mill rates vary, the assessed values keep climbing the closer one gets to Portland. Portland and South Portland are different because they are larger cities with more diverse housing options, not unlike Brunswick. Scarborough and Cape Elizabeth also have a very high property tax burden per resident.
lucidlilacdream t1_j1z1zjb wrote
Property taxes go up in the more affluent parts of AZ. This is true everywhere. Of course taxes are going to be high in Cape Elizabeth, that is the wealthiest part of Maine. But, yes, I’m sure it’s higher in Cape Elizabeth compared to most places.
I do understand that Portland taxes are higher though, and that it doesn’t necessarily correlate with wages because property values shot up. Also, that they continue to increase.
metalandmeeples t1_j1z438i wrote
One thing I've found interesting is the relationship between property assessments and school funding provided by the state. MSAD 51 (Cumberland / North Yarmouth) received a higher percentage of their school funding from the state than nearby towns that are both less affluent and more affluent. 46.23% of their school budget is paid by the state. Brunswick only gets 38% from the state and Freeport/Pownal/Durham only gets 26.57%. There are some other outliers, like Gorham, which has 58.38% covered.
metalandmeeples t1_j1yyr2f wrote
The COL in Southern Maine seriously spiked in the last 10 years when the housing market was at the bottom. Property values, in many cases, have tripled which has really wreaked havoc for anyone who didn't personally realize those gains. If we didn't buy our house in Portland in 2014, we'd probably still be renting while watching the gap between our available down payment and the needed down payment continue to grow.
mainegreenerep t1_j1znbvk wrote
> You add Maine's exceedingly high taxes to the mix
The whole tax burden thing is pretty much bollocks. Most states have very similar effective tax burdens. Costs are costs, and payment will be extracted. Maine is just more straightforward in how we do it, while a lot of states with supposed lower tax burdens just get you in other ways. Some states are more expensive, but overall costs that the state imposes are very similar between most states. We do have higher costs in some areas like heating of course, and cost of living does vary, but that's usually outside of state control.
MoldyNalgene t1_j1zqvtx wrote
Many lists of states by tax burden have Maine listed as #3; refer to the link below. Then you have taxes like vehicle excise tax, which many states do not have. The average new car costs about $48k as of July 2022. With Maine's excise tax you'll be paying an additional $3600 in the first six years, and that's on top of the sales tax paid.
The other big issue is the tax brackets. If you as an individual made more than $54k in 2022, you are in the highest tax bracket of 7.15%. In Southern Maine an income of $54k is not much given cost of living. The average one bedroom apartment has a rent of just about $1800/month in Portland in fall 2022 according to the Bangor Daily News. That comes out to $21,600/year just in rent. At a gross income of $54k/year you'll be spending 40% of your income on rent. Generally they say rent should be no more than 30% of gross income. Explain to me why the state should be taxing someone in the highest tax bracket that can't even afford to keep rent at at less than 30% their annual income. Maine really needs to update their tax brackets because it currently acts like middle class people are going home and jumping into pools of money like Scrooge McDuck.
It gets better though. The state has now decided that regardless of income or wealth, the boomers and silent generation can freeze their property taxes if they've owned a home in Maine for 10 or more years. At some point the state will need to raise taxes on the younger generations to pay for that freeze or start cutting services.
mainegreenerep t1_j204bsu wrote
> Forbes List
That's problem number one right there. Forbes is pretty mediocre for cherry picking, and rarely accounts for things like reduced services, privatized costs etc.
Unless you're doing a cost of living comparison, a tax burden comparison is less informative than you might think. I'm not saying Maine's the best! (we're not) nor that we can't improve, but any argument that's just is about how Maine's taxes are terrible, you can pretty much just discount that argument. It's almost always based on biased or poorly calculated sources (you can't compare taxes in a dense, warm climate state to a rural poor state fairly). But even just going off taxes and nothing else, Maine's taxes are higher, but compared to other cold weather states on a relative scale, not so much.
bogberry_pi t1_j1zm0ux wrote
Better internet would attract people with advanced degrees who can work remotely. Unsurprisingly, most of them don't want to move to the dying rural areas though. New companies or industries would also help, and would provide jobs for skilled tradespeople who don't necessarily have college degrees... But the high costs of energy and long transportation distances make that unlikely on a meaningful scale.
mlo9109 t1_j204xid wrote
I agree... However, I find myself laughing a bit here as I work remotely for a tech company based in NH while I live in Maine. The thing keeping me from moving to NH? Not wanting to pay $8-10K/year in property tax on a house I could get for the same price in Maine and pay 1/4 of that in property taxes.
Sure, cheap booze and no sales tax or state income tax would be nice along with proximity to Boston, but it's not worth budgeting 1/4 of my salary in property taxes IMHO. I'm looking at other locations out of state as I have family/work connections in Minnesota, and I could get more house for my money there.
metalandmeeples t1_j23mc3m wrote
Property taxes in NH aren't that different from Southern Maine. For example, Brunswick has a mill rate of 21.69. Dover, NH, which is a similarly sized town, has a mill rate of 21.70. Property assessments also seem to be very similar. Other parts of Maine are obviously different, but there are rural parts of NH too.
metalandmeeples t1_j23lq04 wrote
Fiber is popping up over most of the population centers. FirstLight is doing FTTH in Oxford County and parts of Androscoggin County. GoNetSpeed is scattered throughout York, Cumberland, Sagadahoc, and Penobscot County. Fidium is all over the map, but seems to be focusing on areas that the others aren't. By 2025, the Internet landscape in Maine will be a whole different world from what it was in 2020.
joeydokes t1_j1xmgl7 wrote
I hope my post is showing more insight than ignorance as I'm not a true Mainer, but have been in (rural) NNE for the past 40 years. Sorry for the 'book'; maybe it'll start a convo.
Most of the greying is in the rural parts; not sure how many young folk would want to live there, let alone have the family support network needed to survive, let alone thrive. From afar, they may see it as their dream; but seeing something from distance and being in the middle of it is the reality check. Many new arrivals don't last a year, let alone 5, or 10. The "Peace and Quiet" (serenity) turns into isolation and loneliness (and substance abuse). The silence and solitude of Nature can be deafening. Whittling helps, when you're not too busy w/chores :)
A good example would be the owners of Airline waystop. I'm not doxing, them but hat-tipping their efforts of these past 5 years. Relocates, with kids, over-worked, in the middle of bupkis - that can become a grind in no time w/out the support of extended family (IMO)
Farming is another example of multi-generational endeavor; and succession (farm advocacy in general) is something I know a bit about.
Anyhow, the rough math in my head:
71yrs (b 1951) is the mean of the 30m boomer generation; which has a long slope from '51 to '61. And 73yrs (1949) is prob closer to the average. This means that boomers are now 61-76yrs old.
Over 76 is the post-WWII generation; who came of age w/the Korean War and McCarthyism, who didn't qualify as Brokaw's greatest. That cohort will be mostly gone in 10yrs and the bulk of the boomers will likely be in nursing homes or supervised care.
Regardless, between moving out to warmer climes, to go into nursing, or to go into the dirt, there's going to be a lot of real-estate opening up (all across Northern NE) in the next 10-15 years. And the bulk of it will be in wide-spot-in-the-road townships that have spent generations getting and keeping their shit together to survive.
There's not a whole lot of horticulture/Animal Husbandry/Ag (like VT); no fields of hemp as prolific as berries in the barrans. Even if ME/Extension were to try and attract farmers it would be a hard-scrabble life. Maine is timber/forestry and most of that land is owned by 2 big outfits.
Rural + recreation has potential, but places like Jackman can have only so many guides and rafting centers. Skiing is likely going to see decline in 20yrs.
TL:DR: Surviving (non-recreational) rural would not be for the faint hearted, even with only a 'reasonable' commute to a 'real' job. Rural life is wearing many hats, including the mostly unemployed one in winter.
The only way to 'grow' ME (IMO) is expanding the (sub)urban areas and attracting good paying jobs because the community is forward looking, green and affordable. In a Bangor neighborhood over 1/2 the neighbors are 65+ and living in the house they grew up in. I've no doubt its the same in other small ME 'cities'. Homes on a postage-sized lot that sold for 1/2 of their present day value in the 'aughts. Starter families would need real, livable, wages to afford even a 100yr old home. That's quite a challenge to solve.
Sadly, the little places in the other 2/3's of the State may come to look as overgrown as their cemetaries. It's all happened before these past 200 yrs and will likely happen again.
............................... We're #1 :) ~300K are 65+
https://www.prb.org/resources/which-us-states-are-the-oldest/
21.7% are 65+
lucidlilacdream t1_j1yv4g8 wrote
Because of the aging population, a lot of the jobs needed are in healthcare. Yet, nursing, where many of jobs are needed, actually pays less in Maine compared to other states. One incentive would be to raise healthcare wages, especially in areas in need to attract younger people.
jnxn t1_j1z93p4 wrote
This. My wife and I are in healthcare and moved here during the pandemic. She's a nurse and I am non-patient facing. It's crazy to me the gap of what I make compared to her. If we stayed in Western mass she would be by far the bread winner and making over 100k but no we moved to Maine and she makes 60k with more patients and less benefits. I see how much Maine hospitals rely on agency RN's and its not sustainable yet they are doing nothing to retain employed nurses. Dumbasses are going to be fucked as more continue to retire or leave patient facing jobs. My wife is going towards remote triage nursing because if you're going to get paid shit might as well not break your back caring to 6 dying patients at one time
w1nn1ng1 t1_j1zisny wrote
The only way to be a nurse in Maine and be fulfilled financially is to be a per diem nurse. You get no benefits, but you get 50% more pay. I know traveling nurses making close to $100k in Maine. You have to be specialized, but it’s there. Working for a healthcare system in Maine as a nurse is short changing yourself and forcing yourself to be overworked.
jnxn t1_j200wui wrote
Traveling is fine if you're under 30 with no family but it's not an option for most. Per diem just means not committed to a weekly schedule but they get paid the same. Sometimes though rare they give extra incentives to cover open shifts but nothing that gets you anywhere near $100k. At least at MaineHealth
w1nn1ng1 t1_j2024vt wrote
Why isn’t traveling nurses an option? I know plenty who are home every day and don’t have to stay near the hospital. In Central Maine, I know people who worked for St. Mary’s, CMMC and Maine General and were home everyday. They also made easily $90k per year doing it.
joeydokes t1_j1zsa6g wrote
Besides covid and supply issues in general, I suspect it could be in part due to consolidation. I.E. Bangor has 3 major networks NorthernLights, StJoes/CovenantHealth, and PCHC. Would not be surprised if good prices and salaries are inversely proportional to their networks.
curtludwig t1_j1z0e1n wrote
>There's not a whole lot of horticulture/Animal Husbandry/Ag (like VT); no fields of hemp as prolific as berries in the barrans. Even if ME/Extension were to try and attract farmers it would be a hard-scrabble life. Maine is timber/forestry and most of that land is owned by 2 big outfits.
Never been to Aroostook have you?
joeydokes t1_j1zljtt wrote
Only cruised up #1 , between callis and houlton, and points West to Jackman. 2023 will be the year I explore North country ;) but I suppose you're referring to the potato industry?
curtludwig t1_j1zpuiv wrote
Not just the potatoes, in early September most of the broccoli eaten on the east coast comes from Aroostook county. The farmer that rents my land farms something like 3000 acres.
They don't plant the same thing every year, this year my land was in oats, last year potatoes. I think broccoli is every 4 years...
joeydokes t1_j1zq9ql wrote
Good to know! Thanks for the info. Am looking forward to traipsing around north country next year :)
bryceisaskategod t1_j1xqxm5 wrote
I’m in Utah right now, and only 25, but would love to move out there at some point. It’s good to hear people’s thoughts on the whole thing especially from those who live there. It’s a beautiful state and visited back in may and loved it. Hope to move out sooner rather than later.
ReallyFineWhine t1_j1yzcj0 wrote
C'mon out. I grew up in Utah and never liked the browns and greys of the desert. Much prefer the green and blue of the Maine forests and water. And it's also not a theocracy.
lucidlilacdream t1_j1z0r3e wrote
Maine is beautiful, but so is Utah. I love both.
bryceisaskategod t1_j1yzgmx wrote
I hope to soon! Same here! Utah has some things I like, sure. But Maine does them ten times better. The forests, the ocean, everything. So beautiful
hike_me t1_j1zvt9p wrote
My wife and I love Utah (except for the Mormon church). We’ve been discussing eventually downsizing our home in Maine and splitting our time between the Moab area and Maine.
kmkmrod t1_j1x5rhd wrote
And last week there was a discussion about how people shouldn’t move to Maine because it drives up home prices
🤦🏻♂️
acister t1_j1xc0lb wrote
Yeah it's pretty short sighted and blames individuals living their lives instead of the systemic issues that are creating economic issues. I used to live in Aroostook and people would complain about that all the time about people moving but the economy is tanking hard because of the population dying up there.
AirBnBs on the other hand everyone should continue to hate on.
[deleted] t1_j1xc15b wrote
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[deleted] t1_j1zahwo wrote
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otakugrey t1_j1xx5vm wrote
Well, it does.
Doesn't change anything, but that is how it works.
kmkmrod t1_j1xxhwl wrote
So Maine needs people to move to Maine as long as more people do not move to maine. Gotcha. 🤙
otakugrey t1_j1xyatx wrote
Yeah lmao. It's a crapshot problem.
But what NEED is there for even more people to come here? Where does this idea come from? We're all barely making due as is, everythings fucked with our situations here. I don't know who is going around saying we need more people to come here. So we can all suffer together? lol
Ideally they'd give support to couples that already here so that they could actually have kids. Like Hungary does. But don't suggest it because the usual's would say "nooo that's socialism!"
kmkmrod t1_j1y03gm wrote
> what NEED is there for even more people to come here?
Tax revenue for the towns, cities, and state.
> We're all barely making due as is, everythings fucked with our situations here. I don't know who is going around saying we need more people to come here. So we can all suffer together?
Fewer people means more tax money from each household.
BloobityBloobity t1_j1z45es wrote
> Fewer people means more tax money from each household.
Well ... Taxes might rise more slowly with more people, but your taxes most certainly won't go down in any scenario. No matter how many people move in.
lucidlilacdream t1_j1yvkdg wrote
Well, there is actually a need for people to fill healthcare roles with the aging population. Unless people just want to sit in their own shit once they can’t care for themselves.
gingerbreadguy t1_j1z5zhb wrote
Yes. Families with young children getting the support they need, whether those families are from here or from away would really help. Families decide whether to have kids and how many based on financial reasons.
SeelieForest t1_j1z4vka wrote
People moving to Maine bring money if they are remote workers...
When I got to my rural property, I instantly hired the contractors a mile down the road. And now plan to hire them more over the winter and next year.
Also bought a bunch of lumber from the local mill.... and eat at the local grocery store every day.
And that isn't even starting to talk about taxes.
People coming with good jobs already raise the tide for everyone around them.
[deleted] t1_j20pao3 wrote
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SeelieForest t1_j20y3ot wrote
The plot of land I purchased had never been touched for 100+ years (actually longer, no one has ever built there).
Who is being displaced?
But if you are talking about people coming in and purchasing a house or something. Then, again, who is being displaced? The people selling their home? I'm pretty sure that was the sellers idea....
It's crazy to me that some people think land in their hometown or wherever needs to be set aside for 10...20...30 years while they save up and MAYBE some day decide or get into a position where they want to maybe purchase it.
If you want the land, go buy it. There is a ton of pretty cheap rural land all in Maine.
[deleted] t1_j20ylch wrote
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SeelieForest t1_j211x9t wrote
>The people who could no longer afford their rent
This isn't caused by people buying houses to live in. This is caused by predatory rental market and the "landlord industry". Or all the boomers who buy 4 or 5 or 6 houses to rent out for extra income.
YOU are refusing to look at the bigger picture and just trying to lash out at anyone and everyone who is trying to live their lives. Instead of these large private equity firms coming in from out of state and trying to squeeze you for everything they can.
So you turn on your neighbors living their lives instead of the actual people fucking you over.
[deleted] t1_j2122hm wrote
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SeelieForest t1_j21afb6 wrote
Lol which mirror again? You are trying to blame people buying houses to live in for a housing crisis caused by private equity and people buying many houses as income streams.
You are like a stupid animal lashing out at anything nearby. Turning on your own community out of stupidity instead of saving your anger for those actually causing your problems.
Next you will be rabidly shouting at people coming out of the grocery store while you continue your derangement.
[deleted] t1_j21bop2 wrote
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SeelieForest t1_j21d1uc wrote
You are being extremely disingenuous. You didn't just "bring up an issue". You insinuated I was ignoring that issue because I was talking about remote workers coming to get a place to live.
And then I was using MYSELF AS AN EXAMPLE, and how I came here and just started pumping money into my local community.... while buying an unused plot of land that no one has touched.
But you are trying to pretend like THAT is a problem? Fuck you buddy, fuck you.
And, AGAIN, people coming to live in a community are NOT why housing and rental prices are insane.
It's instead the use of housing as a financial vehicle. People buying MANY HOUSES and private equity firms buying up huge amounts of housing.
If tomorrow a law was passed that you could only own 1 home that was the one you lived in, then the housing market would CRASH overnight. Because people who live in their homes in a community IS NOT THE PROBLEM.
Again, you are trying to attack people for living their lives and turning on your neighbor instead of thinking for even one moment and attempting to understand the situation.
You are a disingenuous asshole who just wants to fling shit around at innocent people trying to live their lives.
ZingZongZaddy t1_j21dkkd wrote
>Which, AGAIN, has nothing to do with housing and rental prices. People coming to live in a community are NOT why housing and rental prices are insane.
It absolutely is connected. You keep trying to reduce the entire problem down to single factor and it's more complicated than that. It was a confluence of events that you were absolutely a part of. But being part of that doesn't make you the problem. Stop being so goddamned defensive.
The only person attacking anyone here is you.
SeelieForest t1_j21ej7j wrote
>It absolutely is connected.
You are a lunatic. It isn't "connected". Who the fuck is going to be living in an undeveloped forest? Who am I displacing? Absolutely no one, you raving idiot.
About 20% of houses in Maine are registered as vacation homes. MAYBE THAT IS A START OF WHERE THE HOUSING HAS GONE.
Not to mention rich people with so much money the only thing they can think to do with it is buy a 3rd or 4th or 5th house to rent out "for passive income".
You are trying to pretend someone buying an untouched piece of forest in the middle of rural Maine "is part of the problem"? Again, fuck you. All you want to do is sling bullshit around.
ZingZongZaddy t1_j21fkxm wrote
Nothing exists in a vacuum.
Once again, the only person slinging shit is you.
Calm down, honey. You seem personally aggrieved that some people have differing opinions than you. The only reason you were inserted into this narrative was because you made it about you.
YOU DID A THING MOST PEOPLE IN THE SAME SITUATION WOULD DO. THAT ITSELF NOT A PROBLEM.
I didn't refute your claims against landlord culture. Those are 100% a problem. I didn't call you a stupid asshole like you have repeatedly. Stop acting like you're being labeled a pariah.
SeelieForest t1_j21g1bb wrote
Well then little girl, maybe you shouldn't pick fights with random people. Next time think a little before you start spewing your crap around.
ZingZongZaddy t1_j21g97w wrote
Give your balls a tug, big shoots. What a big, strong bad boy on the internet.
Yeah_ok_cool_ t1_j1ytp36 wrote
We need incentives to keep our youth here
Antnee83 t1_j1yu3dm wrote
"yeah but that will turn our state into massachusetts"
Just copy and paste that as a reply to whatever specific suggestion that would keep young people here.
metalandmeeples t1_j1z1g9e wrote
I suspect there's some deep rooted jealousy/resentment in anyone who makes that statement. Massachusetts, by almost every measurable statistic aside from CoL, is one of the best states in the US.
furrylandseal t1_j1z9z9x wrote
Yes. This is the kind of grievance that the far right exploits in order to manipulate the masses to hate people they think have a higher social status than they do. Whenever I see the recurring “masshole” theme here, I cringe because the most important lesson of history is this kind of bullshit leads to dark places. When you press them to explain it, they can’t. MA did nothing to them, and if anything, they are ME’s most valuable ally. We don’t see all this hate for NH, which is full of hard right militia neo-Nazis. But what they don’t have in NH is a large prosperous city to resent.
Good jobs bring large populations of skilled people and, in turn, a higher CoL. People-y and expensive are things that Mainers dislike the most. Life is full of trade-offs. People in MA trade 12 hours of their day schlepping to and from their jobs, which they have to in order to afford their housing, and they have little to no free time. Mainers have all of the free time but less of the money. Nobody is actually happy. But I’ve never heard a MA person diss Mainers. They love ME, think of the people as really friendly, helpful, down to earth.
ZingZongZaddy t1_j20os2f wrote
>But I’ve never heard a MA person diss Mainers.
Oof. Try working in customer service, bud.
OurWhoresAreClean t1_j1z275q wrote
>Massachusetts, by almost every measurable statistic aside from CoL, is one of the best states in the US.
Which is exactly why you can't trust statistics to tell the whole story.
metalandmeeples t1_j1z2gg3 wrote
What do you trust then? Personal anecdotes? Statistics may not tell the whole story, but they certainly tell the current ending.
jqpeub t1_j1z79qy wrote
Listen I see how they drive when they come up here. I know! They got them little beady eyes, they're all thieves I tell you!
birdfriend206 t1_j1zrcsu wrote
THEM MASSHOLES ARE RAT PEOPLE I TELL YA
OurWhoresAreClean t1_j1zaxth wrote
>What do you trust then? Personal anecdotes? Statistics may not tell the whole story, but they certainly tell the current ending.
I'm just pointing out that there are some things that you can't quantify with statistics, but that doesn't necessarily make those things unimportant or irrational.
I like the laid-back, kinda not-moving-with-the-times feel that this state has, and I believe that importing residents from Massachusetts would thoroughly ruin that, but that's not something that can be expressed on a spreadsheet. Does that mean it doesn't matter? Or that it's wrong?
So yeah, you can come up with any number of data points that "prove" Massachusetts is better, and while that might satisfy an economist, I remain unconvinced. I think that saying "Maine is nice because it's not Massachusetts" is both perfectly valid and perfectly indescribable using numbers and stats.
joeydokes t1_j1zjk4k wrote
Your same observations could be made for Vermont. Where much of the northern half is salty and Hicks in The sticks, the southern half trends more to the manicured look; with very different expectations.
OurWhoresAreClean t1_j1zo9c6 wrote
Yup, New Hampshire too.
joeydokes t1_j1zr1nf wrote
Moreso even, considering proximity to Boston/N.Shore
UNH grad and 5yrs little Squam area resident before moving to VT; which is uniformly pastoral . Southern NH, unlike lakes region or whites' is really developed; less greenspace between hamlets, more billboards... :)
raggedtoad t1_j1zfq7g wrote
The Netherlands is consistently ranked as one of the best places to live, by every measurable statistic.
I've lived there. The statistics are true. But fuck no I don't want to live in a densely populated country that is completely flat and half made of reclaimed seabed. It also has a ton of bureaucracy and a very high cost of living. You probably won't ever be able to afford some land with your own home there unless you are a farmer.
So yeah, 100% statistics don't tell the whole story. That being said, western Mass is a lot like Maine and I would have no problem living there.
Fun-Gap4015 t1_j20050s wrote
Quit being negative you emotional vampire
Antnee83 t1_j2037aa wrote
lmao what
Tell me I'm wrong. Find one specific suggestion that would keep young people here (I'll give you a hint, it's amenities) that doesn't get met with a flood of natives saying "but that will take away the Maine Charm™"
Fun-Gap4015 t1_j20f0si wrote
No, do your own homework and quit being a negative emotional vampire.
Antnee83 t1_j20fttw wrote
Level with me: You just discovered that phrase and have been dying to use it, eh?
Fun-Gap4015 t1_j20nol3 wrote
It means you just like to be negative. You want to fight. You're assuming mainers are going to be against the only solution you'll accept so you're trying to get people to agree with you that nothing can be done.
Thats why you suck.
Antnee83 t1_j20obiu wrote
> You want to fight.
Thems fightin words!
w1nn1ng1 t1_j1zi6wu wrote
It’s hard when all the employers that are here are of the old school mentality where you should just be happy you have a job. I work remotely for a company based in San Francisco. It’s night and day difference how they treat you compared to a Maine based employer.
ZingZongZaddy t1_j20oczx wrote
It's hard when all the employers are actually based out of state, you're right. Outside companies have a vested interest in keeping Maine's wages low.
Comparing remote work in a different sector to what is disproportionately a retail-based state is disingenuous.
w1nn1ng1 t1_j20po2r wrote
Not really. Network engineer for network engineer Maine pays far less. That is my profession. I made $80k at a health care organization and was told I was over paid. I now work for a healthcare company not based in Maine and I make $90k and am told I’m under paid by my employer. Previous employer was Maine based.
ZingZongZaddy t1_j20oicz wrote
Yeah ok, cool. But name one.
showdogz t1_j1xrl5p wrote
It’s too bad that the pandemic majorly contributed to an influx of out of staters buying up real estate in the city and suburbs. I don’t want to live in rural Maine.
Antnee83 t1_j1ypikv wrote
You got downvoted for not wanting to live in a rural area. Fucken funny.
It's not for everyone, or even most people. Definitely not for me- fuck having to drive an hour to get to a grocery store that doesn't also sell gas.
metalandmeeples t1_j1z22ra wrote
There are two different rural Maines. On one end of the spectrum there are well off rural towns like North Yarmouth, Pownal, Durham, Arundel, South Berwick, etc. On the other end, there are places like Somerset County.
Antnee83 t1_j1z2e8s wrote
I don't disagree, but for example I live next to Durham and it's just barely rural.
It seems rural when you're driving through it, but like, you're 10 minutes from freeport, lewiston, brunswick...
I don't think anyone really thinks of places like that when they say "rural." I don't. I'd absolutely fuck with Durham.
BloobityBloobity t1_j1z4n0u wrote
Funny you say that. I moved here with my wife (I'm from here, she's not) and she insists that we "live in the middle of nowhere" even though we're 20 min to Portland, 8 min to Scarborough, 15 to Biddeford etc.
She's miserable, it's very sad.
Edit: and I love my wife so much that I have definitely looked into moving again, somewhere closer to town or in a neighborhood, but we bought right before interest rates hiked, and we can't afford anything remotely like what we got now.
Antnee83 t1_j1z5wgz wrote
I get it. I'm originally a city boy, and until I moved to Maine 12 years ago I had never lived more than 20 mins from a major metropolitan area.
I'd like to think I could live in even a place like Durham, with my neighbors at least a quarter mile away, but my brain isn't wired for that. I need to be around other people.
So I'm a suburbanite, and that works for me.
metalandmeeples t1_j1z74cm wrote
The larger (12+ lots) neighborhoods are where it's at in Durham. There are quite a few decent ones like Hunter Hill Road, Chickadee Lane, Patriot Way, Quake Ridge Road, Beaver Woods Drive, Sand Hill Drive, Rangdale Road, Collins Way, Cherry Blossom Lane, and Ruby Lane. I'm sure I'm missing some others. I grew up in an actual neighborhood in Auburn and that was one of our requirements when looking to move out of Portland. I would not want to live on 125/136/9 with my house > 100 ft removed from the road in the woods.
Edit: Yes, there are HOAs in the neighborhoods that are on private roads, but they exist purely because the town requires a road maintenance agreement to be on the books. These aren't golf course neighborhoods or anything like that.
[deleted] t1_j1z7wgb wrote
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BloobityBloobity t1_j200atf wrote
Yes we have one of those neighborhoods right up the road. We take our dogs to walk them there. It's so nice, quiet, close to neighbors but still with multiple acre properties. If there was a house for sale there, I'd be tempted to buy, but one hasn't been for sale in years. Also insane prices.
metalandmeeples t1_j206f67 wrote
We live in one of them as well and moved here from Portland. We bought just before the market exploded. Having other people around definitely helps to make friends and whatnot. Our neighborhood is all younger couples like us, ranging from late 20s to early 40s. We love it here now!
BloobityBloobity t1_j20kk8z wrote
Oh that's so nice to hear! I know that the one near us is that age range too. My wife thankfully has found an outlet for meeting people her age through a new yoga studio.
We didn't get in here before house prices exploded but I made out well selling our house in our previous state. It was insane trying to find something decent this time last year. I feel blessed to have caught a house before interest rates went up. Looking at homes now, we'd only be able to afford the mortgage of a much cheaper house.
LIME_09 t1_j1zkemh wrote
I live in a VERY similar town. We moved here 9 years ago from MA, and I am from Long Island, NY originally. It took me a long, LONG time to feel settled here and that this is "home" for me... as in, just within the past 2 years. I was miserable too. Making friends, and having my kids finally entering elementary school were key contributors to feeling more settled in this rural-ish town I live in (35 minutes to Portland, 10-15 to all shopping needs).
BloobityBloobity t1_j1zztks wrote
What was the original motivation for moving here?
LIME_09 t1_j20hls3 wrote
It's the next town over from where my husband is from, and where the nucleus of his family is. We all get along well, so it has been so wonderful for starting and raising our family. Still, it was hard for me for the first bunch of years. I probably would have been happier if we did the Portland renting thing for a bit before buying in our rural town, but in retrospect with housing prices, thank GOODNESS we bought when we did. But yeah, I married a Mainer and I knew that meant moving to Maine.
metalandmeeples t1_j1z337e wrote
I live in Durham and agree with what you're saying. This stretch of Maine (Durham-Pownal-North Yarmouth) has a population density of less than 120 people/sq mile, but no portion is more than 15 minutes away from a major shopping area or more than 30 minutes from Portland. A rural island that exists mostly because of minimum lot sizes and enormous swaths of undeveloped land.
joeydokes t1_j1zk530 wrote
Rural to me is taking a cruise along stud Mill road, or any blue highway up to millinocket.
_freeheeler_ t1_j1z7oom wrote
Better comparison would be Limerick, Limington IMO. out to the NH border where you can be 45 mins from the closest grocery store (I spent a lot of time with my sister in West Newfield growing up). I would never think of Pownal/Durham area as rural. And then the other version would be Somerset County.
DidDunMegasploded t1_j2087kn wrote
I don't want to live rurally either. Been here for 20+ years, have never lived rurally and I do not want to. I like having all my stuff within reasonable distance.
MrsBeansAppleSnaps t1_j20cow7 wrote
Funny thing is, rural towns don't even have to be so spread out. There are a lot of rural towns in New England with vibrant Main Streets where most people live in walking distance. A place like Brattleboro, VT for instance. But many people in Maine are obsessed with the idea of living in the woods and if you suggest that our state would be better if every town looked like Bath instead of Standish you get downvoted to oblivion.
HurtzMyBranes t1_j20eq1f wrote
They may have also been downvoted for implying that a global housing crisis is directly caused by people “from away” moving to Maine.
People migrating to Maine helped increase demand, but pandemic-related supply chain issues increased costs and created delays for new homes. Two administrations worth of bad monetary policy created inflation. Add in NIMBY backlash to every proposed development in populated Maine areas, and you have a recipe for rising home prices that people are demanding be fixed without building new properties.
It’s a lot more complex than blaming a few Massholes.
ZingZongZaddy t1_j20p0ro wrote
Yeah, let's give the Texans their fair share too.
fredezz t1_j1xwdbs wrote
A robust economy usually comes at a discouraging price. A majority of the people like Maine the way it is now, not the way it would be with a dramatic population increase.
ptowndavid t1_j1yr2k7 wrote
The way it is now is not an increase. Maine is to have a population decrease. Which will be very bad for those who want to keep it the way it is.
yawnfactory t1_j1ynbqa wrote
Maine needs to acknowledge this, and direct the change they want to see. If not, it's unfortunately going to continue to be forced on them.
Mountain-Hawk9155 t1_j1z4ob7 wrote
We moved to rural Maine from Florida this summer. Within a six month span, four other young families I know from my county or sister county also moved here. 3 out of 5 of these work for themselves, though (including me).
I was fourth generation born and raised in the gulf coast area. It’s beautiful (for Florida, if that’s your thing) but the intense increase in population and overdevelopment with no concern for the environment or infrastructure is destroying it. Few jobs to match COL, housing is out of control. Full time professionals living out of their cars with their babies type situation - which is well hidden by the affluence which is actually having a hand in it. The social environment is so toxic. The schools are constantly embroiled in battling unhinged parents and the groups that are riling them up rather than being able to focus on education. Destructive, cult like mega churches are taking over whole counties. I had to get out for my well being. We like that there aren’t a lot of people. We like being able to drive to the grocery store without getting stuck in traffic that makes a 10 min drive take an hour. We like the sense of community and being surrounded by nature instead of soulless urban sprawl.
I think something Maine has going for it is that the people who move here aren’t coming to retire. They are coming as young couples or with young families. Anyway, just thought I’d share from the perspective of a recent transplant.
OutlandishnessNo8550 t1_j1z5w66 wrote
We're moving to Maine (where I grew up) from FL for the same reason - we've been in FL for 7 years, which is a lot for us (former military) but the past few years the toxicity has gotten exponentially worse. We have a LGBTQ kid and I just can't see raising them here anymore.
Zephyr4813 t1_j1zh5mj wrote
Glad Maine can be a refuge
Zephyr4813 t1_j1zh4vb wrote
Sounds like you have good taste. Welcome!
ZingZongZaddy t1_j20nia1 wrote
I understand the sentiment but y'all are bringing the same problems with you. It's wild how people can complain about a problem then turn around and do the same thing themselves.
Chesirem t1_j21rezr wrote
I just graduated from college this summer and I was planning my next steps to move to Maine. Hiking, nature, seasons, and they'll help with student loan debt? I couldn't wait. Been following this sub for awhile.
I grew up in Pennsylvania and was forced to move with my family to Florida 7 years ago. I've hated it and gained so much weight with 100 degree days and no hiking. But now I have to move to New Mexico due to extenuating circumstances. Sigh. One day I'll call Maine home.
Cullen7777 t1_j1z4j1z wrote
No thank you
Hollywoodjenks t1_j1zyffx wrote
The wife and I are moving to ny just so much more affordable and we might actually be able to buy a house instead of living paycheck to paycheck
Trilliam_West t1_j2dehaj wrote
If you're willing to live in Upstate and Western NY, it's incredibly affordable to live there. Downstate is expensive, but it is for good (and some bad) reasons.
ZingZongZaddy t1_j20cj1i wrote
Population growth depends on regulating the housing market and limiting the reach of investors too. There isn't a single problem. There are many, and they often overlap.
And that's how legislators want it.
illumi-thotti t1_j21i6w8 wrote
Could just try to make things better for the people who already lived here, but no, let's keep doing gentrification 🙄
vhiran t1_j226b01 wrote
just be careful they dont ruin everything you once loved about the state.
KermitThrush t1_j25f3ns wrote
Dear MAGA conservatives and other various far righters as well as christian nationalists and mega church lovers:
You will not fit in here.
You will not find yourselves welcomed in the State or its communities.
Don’t make the mistake of thinking that because Maine is one of the whitest states that your toxic views will be supported or condoned here.
Outside of a few town crazies most people will shun and avoid you.
Maine is overall a liberal state and it’s homegrown conservatives tend to be moderate.
And despite the fact that Maine has many churches and many people who attend services it come out in survey after survey to be the least religiously zealous state in the nation.
If people here attend church at all they tend to do it in a casual manner and the churches tend to function as a social clubs And mutual support centers more than anything else.
There’s a strong ethic of live and let live here and proselytizing and religious fanatics are very much looked down upon.
[deleted] t1_j204lk1 wrote
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ppitm t1_j21vua5 wrote
Under the current economic system we need constant population and economic growth. Either that, or cut all government benefits for the elderly to the bone, and government debt along with it. Or full-on socialism. Not much middle ground.
If it sounds like a destructive ponzi scheme, it is. But believe me, the status quo is easier and kinder in the short term.
MrsBeansAppleSnaps t1_j209nnu wrote
We are just trying to stay above water here. Population decline is really bad; it leads to decaying towns, overburdened healthcare systems, bankrupt social security, etc.
Maybe if our governor A) acknowledged the cost of living problem and B) did anything at all to try to alleviate it (like idk, forcing selfish towns to allow houses to be built?), people would feel like they could actually stay here.
[deleted] t1_j20lb86 wrote
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Trilliam_West t1_j2de9dp wrote
Something tells me, that person you replied to would rather have a dying town of the 'right' people versus a growing vibrant town/city of the 'wrong' people.
yeyakattack t1_j1z5dyb wrote
Well when the same party has run the state for nearly 40+ years who else can you blame for the decline in our state.
dumbass_clouds t1_j1zc1mu wrote
Wut? We've had, and continue to have a decent amount of political diversity in our representation.
OurWhoresAreClean t1_j1xaof1 wrote
It was fun while it lasted, guys.
moxie-maniac t1_j1xlq0q wrote
The flip side is the Brain Drain, well educated young people leaving, or not moving back after college.