Submitted by seeyoubythesea t3_1065gbh in Maine
ManlyBeardface t1_j3gveku wrote
Reply to comment by Technical-Role-4346 in So, what do we do? by seeyoubythesea
All the Scandinavians did was export the worst exploitation to the global south.
The evidence is pretty clear. Capitalism is poisoning the world and killing the human species. The evidence also shows that Socialism does the opposite.
Has Capitalism created amazing technological advancement? Yes. And it did it on a mountain of suffering and corpses. A system build on perpetual growth isn't a neutral thing, its a death cult.
Given that the past cannot be changed. I see no reason not to take the tech advancements andnuse them under Socialism to create a vastly more sustainable and humane world.
Technical-Role-4346 t1_j3h65k4 wrote
Do you object to the concept of personal property? Should people be allowed to own land, or a home? Or do you think that everyone should live in government owned and managed housing? Show me a place with a successful 100% socialist society that is not run by a totalitarian oligarchy.
captd3adpool t1_j3i5bpu wrote
In the same vein I pose another question. Im not going to argue what you say wouldnt work because it doesnt. Fuck not being able to own land. Should people be allowed to have personal property or should it all be owned by corporations and capitalist institutions that charge you rent or a subscription fee so you can use their property? That is the end result of unfettered capitalism. Its already happening. Corporatism is effectively capitalist communism. You will own nothing and be happy.
Technical-Role-4346 t1_j3jk6k6 wrote
Corporations have to much influence with elected officials in this country. Many members of congress arrive in Washington with modest net worth and leave office very wealthy. The problem is not limited to members of any particular party. I don't understand your " You will own nothing and be happy. " comment.
captd3adpool t1_j3jkost wrote
Agreed it most certainly isnt limited to one party or another. That comment shouldve had quotations around it when I said it. Its essentially the mentality of the ruling class towards.. well the rest of us.
ManlyBeardface t1_j473ly6 wrote
I've no issue with personal property, which consists of the things you make and use to life your life. Your house, you toothbrush, etc.
I oppose private property which is the ownership of factories, data centers, infrastructure, agricultural land, etc. I think that the capital that we use to make our society work should either be held in common between all people or shoudl be owned by the people who use it (the factory owned by the factory workers who make all the decisions regarding the factory using a democratic process that they themselves decide upon.)
I think that government is the result of a society where people are separated into classes (Capitalist/Worker, Noble/Commoner, Master/Slave) and it's fundamental purpose is to oppress one class in favor of another. Right now the govt. oppresses the 99% in favor of the 1%. I think that in order to get a a good and just society we will have to go through a transitional period called Socialism where the govt. will oppress the 1% in favor of the 99%. This is necessary because were talking about society reorganizing itself into a system where nobody has the sort of power that a billionaire capitalist has today. But to do that you have to be able to wield more power than the billionaire capitalist. So the solution to that is to gain control of govt. and use it's power to strip capitalists of theirs. Govt' housing and other govt. programs will be used initially to plug the gaping holes that Capitalism just ignores in society (hunger, homelessness, etc.)
Once people have a meaningful form of democracy and all their material needs are met we can start developing new ways of organizing society without the interference of people like Bill Gates and Elon Musk. Once we have a society where people are free to organize their lives the way the want then there will no longer be distinct classes in society and thus govt. will cease to serve any purpose. Society will still have to be organized and resources will need to be managed but it will not be necessary to have a state to do so. We will find a way forward together without the need for the coercive violence of states.
> Show me a place with a successful 100% socialist society that is not run by a totalitarian oligarchy.
Every attempt at socialism has been successful. That is why every socialist country has been attacked and punished in every way possible. Capitalists know that socialism works and therefore the govts. that serve them have to do all they can to interfere and ruin socialist countries so that people like you won't know how successful they have been.
Even your question is the result of those propaganda efforts. The very idea of a "100% socialist society" and "blended economies" are rhetorical tricks that are spread to prevent you from being able to conceive of how a socialist society would actually function.
I'll link some videos below for you to give you the chance to hear some ideas on the topic that are probably new to you:
Socialism for Absolute Beginners
Why Liberalism Won's Solve Anything
Is Capitalism Actually Efficient?
Why You Don't Actually Own Anything Under Capitalism
Why It's So Hard to Imagine Life After Capitalism
Frankly the whole Second Though Channel is really excellent. He has tons of great stuff there.
This last video is meant to be educational but in a very entertaining and funny way so don't let the jokes and internet meme formatting distract you from the excellent points it makes: Debunking Every Anti-Communist Argument Ever
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