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philliumm t1_j3xw7sr wrote

Correlation is not causation, bub. That's about on par with inflation, for what it's worth

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drdanagram OP t1_j3xyh40 wrote

That's why I ask.

−16

philliumm t1_j3y6wss wrote

Yep, you could graph the rising cost of electricity against the US cheese consumption per capita (up 22% from 2010 to 2021) and it would tell a whole different story...

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philliumm t1_j3y7rm3 wrote

https://preview.redd.it/o4x97bq41jba1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=67fceed67267ea1bb453f2bbe1d0f72dc0c0727d

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lol1231yahoocom t1_j3y9zyq wrote

Wait, if we eat less cheese our energy costs will go down?

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PLS-Surveyor-US t1_j3yynbi wrote

Nacho sure about that. Munster be all the rage if you are right. Brie right back with a few more.

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philliumm t1_j3y9c6g wrote

It's worth to note: they're most likely using California because the cost is rising dramatically enough to meet their needs for FUD as you identify (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt, had to look that up, thank you). Nationally, and adjusted for inflation, the cost of electricity is quite level.

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/electricity-prices-adjusted-for-inflation/

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drdanagram OP t1_j3ylph5 wrote

We're living through dramatic inflation, so I suppose that just opens an new can of worms, but that's a reasoned response-- Is there any way to bring down the cost of electricity without a new world order?

−9

ANinjaForma t1_j3y43ma wrote

https://preview.redd.it/ojyfm8rywiba1.png?width=2080&format=png&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=c6fb555308b8fe6fa50e5ab86c7331fac97f0a5c

Let’s talk about the real issue here! I want my marriage to last, but everyone keeps eating margarine!

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IamSauerKraut t1_j3y69bu wrote

If you cook/bake with margarine then the divorce is deserved. Butter only!

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SamPhoto t1_j3xwpa7 wrote

This is just trolling right?

I spy an "american experiment" logo in the corner. which is a conservative think tank.

Pack up your bullshit and get the fuck out.

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drdanagram OP t1_j3xynu2 wrote

Do you have a liberal think tank with different numbers?

−11

SamPhoto t1_j3y00gc wrote

the problem is the interpretation, which sound like lying.

prices aren't going up due to more renewables.

more renewables are being added because the prices go up, and there's a market for them.

other reference:

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drdanagram OP t1_j3ynkfr wrote

That's a fair interpretation. I'm just frustrated that the cost of a big screen TV drops every year, but Electricity always goes up.

The single most important invention in history and they can't figure it out?

I guess we just need to wait for the new world order....

−5

bartmannjugband t1_j3yp0zd wrote

They have figured it out though. The rich just want us to be paupers and their going to keep gauging us. Otherwise why would prices go up when profits are at record highs. Greed.

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drdanagram OP t1_j3xzcke wrote

Should this be censored?

−12

King_O_Walpole t1_j3y13u7 wrote

Go back to LA

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drdanagram OP t1_j3yksdp wrote

I was born and raised here.

In LA there are car alarms and homeless living next to $40 million buildings.

I moved back home in '04, I haven't taken the keys out of my car since.

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tobascodagama t1_j3xzzqp wrote

It's a scientific phenomenon called "lying with statistics".

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Minimummaximum21 t1_j3xuwj5 wrote

I don't think the chart is as helpful as you think

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drdanagram OP t1_j3xz9xh wrote

It's good for FUD.

And it works. Or you just ignore this stuff. Maybe that's best.

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20thMaine t1_j3z2ttb wrote

Did…you literally just call your own post out as FUD‽

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CptnAlex t1_j3y9jle wrote

This is a bunk chart. Its classically misleading because one axis starts at $10.00 and ends at $20, and the other starts at 0. Its skews the data to support a narrative.

https://imgur.com/a/foKA85V here is a guesstimated chart I made matching up the values as I don’t have the underlying data. As you can see more clearly, prices stayed relatively flat, climbing only marginally with inflation until recent heavily inflation years.

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brent_ff t1_j3yuks9 wrote

Exactly. They zoomed in to the rise part.

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SamPhoto t1_j3y0vvt wrote

Let's see:

looks like the answer is oil and gas.

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utumike t1_j3yr1ss wrote

The chart is from a conservative think tank in Minnesota funded by the Koch Foundation. They are major players in oil and gas exploration, refining and shipping

It looks like the price per KH is total price from all sources of generation. I would think the rise in the price on natural gas and oil is the factor that is causing the price increase in electric rates.

In Maine, it’s also the rise in natural gas prices that is causing the electricity prices to surge. Not solar.

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ghstber t1_j3xwonw wrote

Sometimes the correlations that these charts lead us to infer do not paint an accurate picture. Instead, consider the relationship of the costs of energy rising year-over-year, resulting in more investment into solar and wind generation to offset that cost. Without more information that drives this chart, we cannot know more for sure, but given that the cost of fuel and other commodities are going up, this makes sense from the perspective just offered.

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hike_me t1_j3y2kma wrote

Net metering means customers pay less in distribution fees for maintaining the grid but they still use the grid, so distribution rates are raised to make up the difference

I have solar. Each month I push hundreds of kilowatt hours into the grid, and then consume hundreds of kilowatts hours. Because of net metering I don’t pay anything more than the minimum fee to be connected, which is like $6.xx

Lots of net-metering customers eventually result in price increases for everyone else. 1:1 net metering isn’t really sustainable

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drdanagram OP t1_j3ymm4t wrote

I'm curious-- I love the idea of solar, my dad installed a solar powered air conditioner in the 80's (worked-- not great, but was like magic).

I'm curious about the hard data here in Maine-- I'd like to know if it was worth it for you.

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utumike t1_j440s1m wrote

I don’t know if I totally agree with you. I have solar panels also. I pay a minimum of $13.75/month. I live on a road where the developers put in the utility wires underground. CMP didn’t contribute anything. My extra power goes out then probably right into my neighbors houses. CMP is charging them for the power and the delivery even though they don’t own or maintain any of the wires. I don’t know. I still like my solar.

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hike_me t1_j4418me wrote

CMP didn’t contribute because your developers opted for underground utilities (either by choice or because they were required to by the town). I live on a private road and all the poles were put in and are owned by Versant.

Glad I’m in versant territory: CMP charge you twice as much as Versant charges me… When I first got my solar panels my minimum charge was $8.xx and then like 3 or 4 months ago it dropped to under $7

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Jesus_Was_A_Fungi t1_j3y3esh wrote

I read the top and some of your comments and that's enough to make me think you have some mental issues that you should probably get some help with.

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drdanagram OP t1_j3yk52s wrote

I'm not sure your qualifications, but suppose I am deranged, we need KW and as many as we can get our hands on.

It seems like wind and solar are theoretically good, but don't bring the price down.

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bern_trees t1_j3yrq8f wrote

The NFL makes it cold outside!

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New_Sun6390 t1_j3y9jct wrote

Adding wind and solar does indeed cost the average electricity price to go up. This is partly because there are many tax credits for wind and solar Additionally, when some customers who are wealthy enough to install their own generation save on their electric bill, the price for other customers who are not so fortunate goes up. This is because the price of delivery of electricity does not change with the addition of wind and solar. So some customers are getting free power, which is awesome for them, but the cost to maintain the grid has to come from somewhere and it comes from the less fortunate people who don't have the resources to install their own wind and solar.

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salvelinustrout t1_j3z4gj8 wrote

Little more nuance to this. Tax credits aren’t funded by electricity ratepayers, so that has nothing to do with electricity prices going up and a lot to do with renewables helping push them down (or keeping them from rising faster).

Net metering is complicated. For a while — ballpark the first 30% of households adopting solar, for example, which Maine is nowhere near — the benefits of having that distributed generation taking strain off the transmission system during peak hours, which saves everyone money, outweigh the reduction in bills those customers get. It’s true that eventually in theory if everybody net metered we wouldn’t be able to cover the cost of the grid with per-kWh rates, but many of the costs that have historically been recovered with per-kWh rates are probably better recovered with fixed customer charges anyway, so if the PUC keeps up with net metering by raising the fixed charge appropriately everyone will still pay a fair share, and we’ll all be paying less that we would’ve otherwise.

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vikingenvy t1_j3yhurz wrote

Brah, may be stupid here in Maine but is it also possible increasing demand for the product and increasing production costs could explain this?

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drdanagram OP t1_j3yjcsc wrote

Try solar and wind, it'll be cheap they said....

−1

vikingenvy t1_j3yk7zg wrote

So wish you stayed and kept your lack of critical reasoning skills in California.

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drdanagram OP t1_j3yo2cw wrote

Take it easy Viking, don't burn my crops and pillage my town.

what we're living is unsustainable, I just wonder if there's any exit strategy, or just chaos and higher prices til the end of time.

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vikingenvy t1_j412irc wrote

Which right wing wacko nut job is paying you to spread disinformation on Reddit?

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drdanagram OP t1_j44zuqi wrote

It's partly a test. I developed a system to catch trolls online.

It's a metric system of intent and perception.

Take a look:

https://physix.world/mainers/

https://physix.world/demo

Take a look through the comments, there are rational responses that align with what you say is misinformation. Likely the information is perfectly correct, but infers that correlation is causation without more complex analysis.

If you can find enough coincidental causes, you have a viable theory.

Wanna jump down this rabbit hole?
https://physix.world/basilisk-insurance/

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QuakerCorporation t1_j3zef0l wrote

Use less gas. Grow less herb in massive indoor farms. Stop shelling out money for goods that you use once and throw away. And kaboom the energetic balance. It’s impossible to not have increased in costs when we have a wave of people flood the state driving up consumption, during and post pandemic, coupled with year over year industrial and business consumption increases that are staggering plus strain of supply costs. Wind and solar are offsets. Doubt they are ever going to take a lion share of the energy sector. Current projects look like public land grabs and less like they’re changing the world. But maybe I’m just blind to all the power those solar panels are making whilst covered in snow. At this point I’m indifferent.

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ConfirmedDunce t1_j3zfm9g wrote

The responses in this thread warm my heart for the good common sense and appropriate skepticism of Mainers, lol. There's almost nothing I could say about this that hasn't already been said.

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Weird-Tomorrow-9829 t1_j3ztwjm wrote

Overlay the price of natural gas.

Also, isn’t most of the electric companies finally upgrading transmission after several years of wildfires started by ignoring deteriorating infrastructure?

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MaineviaIllinois t1_j3y91f6 wrote

The chart would also look the same way if you overpaid it with deregulation or tax cuts for that matter. After all in the 1940s the tax rate was 90% and energy cost was 2 cents a kWh. 1960s down to 70% and up to 3. 80s down to 45% up to 4. Now 37% and .17. Making a graph is easy- understanding the actual drivers is harder.

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Inner-Measurement441 t1_j3ymz5x wrote

Correlation with riding natural gas prices too. Not sure of the CA gas generation %

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10tothe22 t1_j3yyhkf wrote

The Aristocracy is not going to go down without a fight. This is the real issue. Sometimes you need to channel your revolutionary circuits. Sometimes those circuits are embedded in a solar cell.

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mainething t1_j3zh2v4 wrote

Huh ?

I think I hear California calling you back.

See Ya !

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snoggy_loggins t1_j41g46y wrote

Renewable like tide, wind and solar are expensive, unreliable, and our grid can't store energy they produce off peak to later release during peak.

A gas plant is proven and reliable, but we've decommissioned them without replacing them with something equally proven and reliable.

Nuclear is also a good option with zero carbon emissions but regulations make them expensive and waste storage is a consideration. Still better than renewable imo, people need lower electric bills.

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[deleted] t1_j4196l6 wrote

Inflation exists....

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LiteratureDapper2935 t1_j3yf47h wrote

Well its not cheap and its not clean. Solar panel disposal is causing issues with ground water pollution. Should have never abandoned nuclear. New nuclear plants are about as clean as they come.

−3

salvelinustrout t1_j3z4o7p wrote

Got a source for this bud?

The only new nuclear plant coming online in the US anytime soon is a decade behind schedule and $8 billion over budget. Also you think people freaked out about a transmission line, just try siting a nuclear plant anywhere in New England.

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