Submitted by makerofshoes t3_109uyuy in Maine

Sorry if the wrong place to ask, but my mom spent a bit of time in Maine in the 50’s-60’s. In school, when someone would do something bad, the other kids would all point at them and say something that sounded like “ah va”

She always thought it might be French since they were near the border, but never really knew what it meant. Was wondering whether anyone else could shine some light on it?

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EccentricSoaper t1_j40hl33 wrote

Lol that one stuck around for a while. It's just an onomonopia that denotes someone would get in trouble for something they just did. Like "ooo, you're gonna get it", I grew up with Florida cousins that said "ooo wubbie wubbie" instead lol 😆

Colloquialisms are great! Thanks for the nostalgia

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makerofshoes OP t1_j40ibqd wrote

Thanks for responding. So it sounds like it might just be kid stuff rather than anything deeper

She moved a lot around the country and noticed that they didn’t say that anywhere else.

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EccentricSoaper t1_j40kgfy wrote

Yup. I have only heard it here in Maine and not since I was little (32 here)

I suppose it could have French/ Canadian origins, but they were never acknowledged, not that I was aware of anyway.

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primordialforms t1_j40qwyf wrote

My sisters would say "uh-va-va-vahhh!" Just like the other poster said, as a sound that sounds like you are gonna get it!!

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makerofshoes OP t1_j40w9z8 wrote

Yeah that sounds like the right context. She always just repeated it without knowing what it meant, but she knew when to say it 😆

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heavymetaltshirt t1_j40yi1e wrote

I always assumed it was a French expression, because I heard it in my heavily francophone area. In my mind it’s like “oh go” or “go on.” Edit: in my mind it’s written “a va”

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makerofshoes OP t1_j4110r4 wrote

That was my best guess for a meaning in French as well, but I thought given the context (“uh-oh! Someone’s in trouble!”) it didn’t really fit.

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heavymetaltshirt t1_j4121rf wrote

Yeah, totally. Idk sometimes idioms don’t translate literally, or maybe there’s a transient cultural meaning or reference that has been lost to time.

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SheSellsSeaShells967 t1_j41uvtv wrote

It's a real old saying. I've only heard it in Central/Northern Maine. It usually went this way in my family "Ah va! I'm telling Mama!"

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erichinnw t1_j41hcmy wrote

Jesus - This just dragged me back to my childhood in lovely Yoonty. I have no idea who taught us this, but my siblings and I all said it when one of would do something (that we most likely would report back to our parents) that was going to end up with an ass whooping.

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ScenePlayful1872 t1_j421b8e wrote

Wow, flashback. Very prevalent around me in 60’s/70’s and only in Maine. Also assumed Fr/Can from va . Older me saw Oi Vey connection, which doesn’t make much sense for Maine. So I just looked up the German equivalent for the Yiddish word. And… Germans use O weh (which is of Dutch origin) and means “Ouch!” Which…. is exactly what I often heard in France. Ai is for sharp pain, A-wah for anything irritating. The Dutch Weh word lives on in English: a half-century ago in Maine when my big sister told me ”Ah-Vah!” she was actually saying ”Woe is You!”

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NipDrunkChipmunk t1_j426hhj wrote

I remember kids saying this all the time in school. To me it always sounded like they were saying "umm-vah!" or "oom-vah!", and it was always after a kid said or did something they should not have. "ummvah, you're in trouble!" "oomvah, I'm telling the teacher".

I only ever heard it in maine and thought it was a french canadian thing.

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MontEcola t1_j415ytd wrote

I heard it as just ‘fa-ah’. Two syllables. someone broke a rule or got called away for a chat with the teacher. I only heard it from kids.

Now they say ‘bust-Ed’.

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Wald0_17 t1_j41g0g4 wrote

Jesus, this takes me back. A girl on my bus in elementary school said that all the time. I never heard it anywhere else, and always just assumed she was stupid.

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BracedRhombus t1_j41vx29 wrote

Funny, now I remember saying that as a child! I haven't heard it in years.

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kittehs4eva t1_j43wbz3 wrote

I memba this!!!! We said it in early elementary school when another kid would get in trouble. I'm over 50.

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Bookaddictanon t1_j43wtj8 wrote

"Ah-vah" was an expression meaning "you're going to be in trouble" I remember well from growing up in Maine in the 70s and 80s. I don't remember hearing it much 90s to now, I actually asked my teen the other day if they'd heard that phrase and they didn't know it at all. Not sure it was related to French or any other language, just a saying.

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LadyStardust79 t1_j447um1 wrote

My mother would say it to us kids in the 80s when she caught us doing something we were told not to, like swearing or lying.

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Yourbubblestink t1_j423l6p wrote

Northern Vermont in the late 70s it was pronounced more like ‘fa fa’….

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Unusual_Ad2850 t1_j43gk58 wrote

My sister and I used it often. Not sure of its origin. I hadn't really thought about it much until recently (I am 59). I was wondering if it had roots in Catholicism. Maybe coming from Ave part of Ave Maria. But that is just my own speculation. Interesting to read other people's takes on it.

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jellyrollo t1_j44vxl3 wrote

We kids definitely used "ah va" to indicate you've done something bad and are gonna get in trouble in rural New Hampshire in the 1970s. Could still have originally come from the French, as the area had a lot of French names.

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GrantBarrett t1_j4ca076 wrote

I'm so glad that xperimentalZa mentioned "A Way with Words," a radio show/podcast which I am a co-host of! This "you're in trouble" expression has been a longstanding mystery. Our listeners brought it to us. No reference work or language researcher seems to have looked into it.

The fact that so many of you know it from Maine and nearby states upsets the most current theory that we have! Up until now, all of the reports that we have had from listeners occurred in mountain, southwest, western plains states: New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, Nevada, Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota, and North Dakota.

Our current hypothesis was that it might be a form of Spanish "a ver" which has a number of colloquial meanings in Spanish that include "we'll see" or "we'll find out," and we were guessing that the meaning, when used in a classroom was, "you're gonna find out what kind of trouble you're in." More specifially, "¡Uuuu, vas a ver!" meaning, "Oooooh! You're gonna pay the consequences!"

This hypothesis was plausible because from New Mexico and Arizona northward through the mountain states into Colorado is a history of some of the longest Spanish-speaking traditions in North America, representing, in part, a dialect that isn’t spoken anywhere else, and tied directly into the settlement of the land before both Mexico and the US became countries. There is still a great deal of labor moving between those states and the Spanish-speaking heritage is a part of that.

Listeners who are familiar with this expression have rendered it phonetically a variety of ways: a ver, ah vah, ah ver, ah vers, ahhh ver, uh ver, uh vers, um bers, um ver, umber, umbers, umm brr, umm ver, umm verr, ummbrr.

The V and B are interchangeable in most dialects of Spanish, and are easily mistaken for each other by Anglophones.

HOWEVER. If this classroom "you're gonna get it" sound is also being used in Maine and nearby, that hypothesis is null and void. Since we last talked about this on the show in December (https://www.waywordradio.org/a-ver-umm-ver-trouble-at-school/), we also heard from someone who remembers using it as a child in Virginia (and they have a Mennonite background — some connection to the German mentioned elsewhere in tis discussion?).

Besides the link above, here's another place we talked about the expression on the radio show/podcast: https://www.waywordradio.org/umbers/

I welcome all field reports about it from Mainers and others!

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DisfunkyMonkey t1_j41435o wrote

The French expression "ça va" (sah vah) means "it's okay" and it can also be a question meaning "how's it going?"

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IamSauerKraut t1_j41kixe wrote

That's a familiar expression used by the F-C generation before me. Not said so much anymore.

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Soccermom233 t1_j43m9f9 wrote

I think it's a weird spelling of ABBA

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xperimentalZa t1_j45jnzv wrote

There is a podcast came A Way With Words that would be perfect. The two hosts are dictionary editors and can tell you, down to the region, the origins of sayings, when it was popular, everything! You should contact them and be on their show!

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GrantBarrett t1_j4hyt0d wrote

See my reply elsewhere in the thread!

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xperimentalZa t1_j4mdvu2 wrote

I was so excited to read your response; I had a chance to catch up on my podcast during a long drive this weekend and heard the episode from December 2022 in which a caller phoned in with this phrase that she had learned as a child in Montana. What a coincidence! I love listening to you and Martha, "A Way With Words" has been a longtime favorite podcast for years.

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ecco-domenica t1_j471ufm wrote

Heard it all my childhood in the 60s. Early childhood in Northeast Kingdom Vermont. Later childhood in the County. Sounded more like ah fa than ah va to me. Don't know if it was specifically Franco, but obviously most childhood companions were Franco in both places, so . . . related to faux pas, maybe? Said with shocked expression and sharp intake of breath.

Only kids said it, never adults. Clearest memory, someone's little brother clowning around put a rosary around his neck like a necklace. He got ah fa'ed from all sides and his older brother told him Jesus was gonna come and sit on his neck. He took it off immediately.

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IamSauerKraut t1_j41k5sg wrote

"Ah vey" may be F-C but I've heard it most often from elder Jewish folks. Similar to an omg.

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Phantom_1792 t1_j40uf7c wrote

Could they have been saying “oy vey” I know that’s a common saying where I’m at (VT) to express dismay/ frustration

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makerofshoes OP t1_j40uyoa wrote

I think that one’s pretty universal in the US, this one seemed more localized to ME. Also she is pretty adamant on the pronunciation.

The context doesn’t fit either; oy vey is frustration or dismay like you say, this phrase was used when someone had misbehaved

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Doc_coletti t1_j412yfx wrote

That’s Yiddish, it’s a common expression among Americans of Ashkenanzi origin

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