Submitted by easy_peasy_woeisme t3_10kdo3l in Maine
Is this payback for the corridor getting shut down?
Comments
hoowahman t1_j5pzi5a wrote
I see this coming up everywhere. CMP is not the supplier and you pay for them to transport electricity to your house. It makes up a smaller portion of your bill. If you are finding your bills double you are probably with a crap supplier like Electrcity Maine who just doubled in price beginning of the year. Call CMP and switch to standard offer already.
Henbogle t1_j5q0da0 wrote
To pay for their stupid transmission line and fighting Pine Tree Power.
fredezz t1_j5q0f8l wrote
It's because the price of natural gas has skyrocketed in the last two years... use of natural gas to generate electricy accounts for 80% of the electrical power in NE...Annnnd every available molecule is being liquefied and shipped over seas.
Squidworth89 t1_j5q0y9t wrote
Maybe for a bit… bits back down to prices it was in 2016…
Guygan t1_j5q2irv wrote
Zephyr4813 t1_j5q2jsy wrote
What's your source on 80% being natty gas? I understood it was mostly hydroelectric.
Commercial-Amount344 t1_j5q31w2 wrote
small portion its 50% i get 100 in electricity and pay 100 to get it here.
trunksshinohara t1_j5q333p wrote
Corporate greed.
safetysmitty3990 t1_j5q3i1k wrote
It is definitely not mostly hydroelectric. You can see our current grid mix any time at https://www.iso-ne.com/.
80% is also wrong, but NG is the marginal fuel, so any fluctuations in the gas market end up setting rates in New England. Also the issue isn't just the price of gas itself, but the 'basis' price which is the cost of purchasing space on pipelines to move the gas to New England. We don't have enough space on pipelines to heat the region and run electric generators, so prices spike during the winter.
[deleted] t1_j5q49q8 wrote
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SobeysBags t1_j5q4u9n wrote
Did they lock in a bad price from 2022? because natural gas just plummeted 9%, and experts expect it to fall even more due to lower than average usage in the USA. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-03/fear-of-global-natural-gas-crisis-eased-by-warm-start-to-winter
Pjblaze123 t1_j5q72cj wrote
Standard offer went from .06 to .11
Vegan-Cheez t1_j5q7rv9 wrote
We had to stop using our heat pump because it suddenly started doubling our electric bill.
freeportme t1_j5q81nk wrote
Interesting mine is cheaper than running the ac in the summer! Still run furnace under 15°
Vegan-Cheez t1_j5q8t3p wrote
I'm sure it's a maintenance issue, but we can't find anyone to come check it out so I just gave it the finger and turned it off for the season.
freeportme t1_j5q8zoh wrote
Ya you have to get them cleaned yearly for them to operate properly and efficiently
respaaaaaj t1_j5q90ho wrote
Maine is at like 70% of the power it generates is green, but we're a relatively small part of the New England grid in both use and generation.
respaaaaaj t1_j5q9bsj wrote
CMP sucks at a lot of things, which means that people assume they suck at everything, including things that either aren't under their control or that they're actually pretty decent at. It bugs me but I understand it.
TarantinoFan23 t1_j5qd9he wrote
Only half the story. What is heating bill?
StreakKDP t1_j5qdsci wrote
Did you think the HP we going to run off hopes and dreams? You will se your fuel consumption drop. If your hot water is still on said fuel - that should be your next upgrade
[deleted] t1_j5qdzxy wrote
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fallingfrog t1_j5qeyif wrote
Because they have no competition and apparently no regulation saying they can't. So. until they become a public utility they will continue to charge whatever they please.
egoodkowsky t1_j5qfoje wrote
Natural gas is vulnerable to the global market.
In the year 2000 on ISO New England grid
Coal 18% Oil 22% Natural Gas 15% As a total electricity produced
In the year 2021 on ISO New England grid Coal .5% Oil .2% Natural Gas 46%
Vegan-Cheez t1_j5qggsm wrote
Not great either.
Smitch250 t1_j5qiw55 wrote
Thats not how it works at all.
enoinoo t1_j5qm7y8 wrote
How do I find out which supplier I have?
[deleted] t1_j5qnwyn wrote
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mmaalex t1_j5qoxsk wrote
Most of it is the supplier ISO New England, not CMP or Versant.
It's largely a function of electricity being more expensive to generate due to things like increases in natural gas cost, paying premiums to encourage renewables, etc.
mmaalex t1_j5qp827 wrote
They lock in the "standard offer" rate for the year I believe so it's fixed until 2024
fredezz t1_j5qp9yo wrote
I stand corrected. But, I was half right. Same source
Hot_Salad9000 t1_j5qq1je wrote
I’m not an expert on energy but can we at least move the tree line back a little from the road? I see some branches over the road begging for a good storm.
metalandmeeples t1_j5qq2nz wrote
That was last year. It went up again to 0.176310/kWh on 01/01/2023.
metalandmeeples t1_j5qqv7t wrote
The supply rate standard offer has almost tripled since 12/31/2021
2021 - 0.064494
2022 - 0.118161
2023 - 0.176310
The delivery rate also increased in the summer of 2021 and is scheduled to increase another 30%. We'll be at about 0.30/kWh by this summer when factoring in both delivery and supply charges.
joeydokes t1_j5qrelt wrote
Yea, I'm of a mixed opinion on the subject.
Ironbird207 t1_j5qtrm4 wrote
I like how all the CMP defenders ignore the fact all the local electric co-ops haven't had their rates rise.
MaineGal2022 t1_j5quz7m wrote
Look on your bill. It breaks it down to your delivery service (CMP) and your Electricity Supplier. If you haven't selected a supplier, then you will have the standard offer--the rate for this has gone up 3 times in 3 years, as noted in the other post.
You may have switched to another supplier at some time in the past and forgot you did so. In that case, it would be worthwhile to do some research and see if it is worth it to switch to the "standard offer" or a different supplier. I switched to CN Brown in Nov 21 and locked in the rate of $0.1067 for two years. That was a good (lucky) decision on my part as that is what I am paying now. We'll see where things are come Nov of this year.
enoinoo t1_j5qv8h4 wrote
Thank you!!
safetysmitty3990 t1_j5qvjza wrote
Haha yes, you still got the main point which is that gas clears the market and sets the price.
safetysmitty3990 t1_j5qvyqs wrote
The cost of gas itself doesn't make up the entire price of gas. End users (including generators) need to pay for space on the regional pipelines to move gas into the region (called 'basis'). Since our pipelines don't have enough capacity to move gas into New England, the actual cost of delivery gas can be much higher than gas futures.
SobeysBags t1_j5qwq4g wrote
Ok but the whole shtick for the electricity price increase is the increased demand, and thus increased cost of natural gas. This was primarily the reason from 2022 anyway. Now the demand is falling and so are natural gas prices. Wouldn't this be reflected in pipeline as well. I mean this could all be semantics if the price is locked for 2023, and we are going to be stuck paying 2022 prices.
SobeysBags t1_j5qwtae wrote
Bummer. You'd think there would be a price adjustment clause or something.
safetysmitty3990 t1_j5qxhpl wrote
Not necessarily, basis pricing and pipeline capacity into New England has been an issue since 2012. Retirement of older nuclear plants and oil plants have left gas plants as the biggest source. Heating and process loads in the region have switched to gas from residual and diesel in the last decade leaving us even more constrained. Basis can be 4-5x the price of gas futures.
Edit: FWIW I support a consumer owned CMP, I'm just trying to add some understanding of the market itself. Consumer owner CMP would still be at the mercy of these issues.
curtludwig t1_j5qzs7b wrote
This rate rise is not "CMP doubling our electric bills" CMP does not set the price of power.
This has been discussed to death on this very forum. I suggest you educate yourself on the subject of energy prices.
curtludwig t1_j5qzy00 wrote
Which is still lower than most of New England. Ask yourself "What is it about Maine that would make our electricity cheaper?"
The answer is "Nothing."
curtludwig t1_j5r02it wrote
Aaaand there is exactly 1 natural gas pipeline into New England. Not into Maine into the whole region...
respaaaaaj t1_j5r2eo2 wrote
The local co ops aren't the ones generating power with natural gas or fossil fuels. Kind of like that hydro power that the corridor would have delivered that the fossil fuel companies currently gouging us funded the campaign to block
Notmystationbro t1_j5r3hxg wrote
Because its mostly powered by fossil fuels and this administration has an agenda on ending fossil fuels. Hence the price. Supply and demand. Never had this problem until 2021. Price of oils regulate everything we purchase from electricity to food. Higher costs equal higher rates
Notmystationbro t1_j5r3tg6 wrote
Because it’s traded on the open market. How much crude oil has been drilled in 2022 vs 2020?
axillaME t1_j5r3ygs wrote
Get the solar share…I have not paid a bill in months
New_Sun6390 t1_j5r598u wrote
>The delivery rate also increased in the summer of 2021 and is scheduled to increase another 30%.
Please provide data to back up this claim. The utility may have requested a rate increase, but simply asking for it does not mean it is "scheduled" to happen any time soon.
The recent price increase in supply is NOT CMP's fault. CMP has zero control over supply prices, and gets no revenue from supply. CMP has the unenviable role of billing on the supplier's behalf, bit it is strictly a pass thru.
KeithMaine t1_j5r5a7e wrote
Cause we didn’t approve the power corridor. Remember we were going to save 5 bucks a month. Lol but we voted against it. They still got it. And we are fucked.
respaaaaaj t1_j5r5hwb wrote
They don't set supply prices, but you're right there is a group with a major interest in limiting competition and price gouging, the natural gas and fossil fuel companies that funded the anti corridor campaign.
Remember when they ran ads saying that the corridor deal "might save Mainers as little as cents per month"?
New_Sun6390 t1_j5r5jnm wrote
Totally not true.
New_Sun6390 t1_j5r5sl7 wrote
It is actually New Brunswick Power and NextEra who are raising your electric bills.
The recent price increase in supply is NOT CMP's fault. CMP has zero control over supply prices, and gets no revenue from supply. CMP has the unenviable role of billing on the supplier's behalf, bit it is strictly a pass thru.
StreakKDP t1_j5r7jk9 wrote
Lol I commented under the wrong post
ptmtp26 t1_j5r7qt5 wrote
Yes they are.
And until I get a bill from an electrical supplier that doesn’t pass money through CMP first you will never convince me otherwise.
metalandmeeples t1_j5r8a9w wrote
You're right, as far as I can tell the increase is only "proposed" for summer of 2023 at this time. That said, how often does the Maine PUC deny rate increases?
ptmtp26 t1_j5r8qth wrote
That corridor and its supporters can get bent.
They can go underground in Vermont. Keep that ugly eyesore elsewhere. Massachusetts signed up for unrealistic “renewable” power goals, they can get them themselves instead of stealing from the states around it.
respaaaaaj t1_j5r9rt3 wrote
Ahh yes I too hate CMP so much I support fossil fuel companies maintaing their monopoly and gouging us.
respaaaaaj t1_j5rbjnw wrote
Why is it that the most ignorant people are the least likely to accept that they were wrong because of a lack of information
ptmtp26 t1_j5rbnfp wrote
If mass wants renewable energy so bad, they can damn up there own rivers, and put wind turbines on there own mountains. Instead they pay us penny’s on the dollar to do it, and then say how wonderful of a thing they are doing. Fuck em
respaaaaaj t1_j5rbxgn wrote
The dam is already built in Canada, neither of those things are happening in Maine
ptmtp26 t1_j5rc1qg wrote
You believe that a monopolized company, owned by international corporations based out of this country are actually doing anything even remotely ethical and for the good of the people they have a monopoly over?
And you think we’re ignorant.
ptmtp26 t1_j5rc8jg wrote
Except that transmission line that they could start building in Vermont - who has welcomed it - is too expensive. They would rather force us into something the state as a whole has said we don’t don’t want. Because dollah dollah bill yo.
Again, fuck em.
thelegendofskyler t1_j5rcr3b wrote
Less corporate greed? And I mean comparison doesn’t help. I’d still be complaining if the prices in other states were 10x more
New_Sun6390 t1_j5rczct wrote
In virtially every case, the regulators cut the increase down to a fraction of what the utility asks for. This means the utility will not be able to invest in the grid to improve service.
Fabulous_Engineer_79 t1_j5rd9cg wrote
Must be convenient to just invent your own facts.
metalandmeeples t1_j5rdzmq wrote
Unfortunately for CMP, perception is reality. This is especially true when it comes to referenda. CMP has an uphill battle to fight and they are the lowest ranked utility in the entire country. They are currently spending millions on astroturf campaigns, but they need rate increases to improve the grid? Best of luck to them, they're going to need it.
TransparentCMP t1_j5rfde3 wrote
I understand argument that the cost of energy is going up and CMP just transmits it. However, I wonder how the 42 million they spent defending the corridor as well as the 11 million spent so far fighting Pine Tree Power so far factors into the equation. Is it considered an operating cost therefore reducing “profits”? I can’t seem to find any info on CMPs profits. This would be important info to have for discussions such as these. If anyone knows where to find this info please share.
SobeysBags t1_j5rg6o0 wrote
I really dont care about cmp.
So why didn't these issues you mention, double the cost of electricity 3,4,5,6 or 7 years ago, but rather did in the last 12 months? The only change I can see is that natural has increased in cost due to recent factors. Since natural gas has gone down in price the last couple of months, it would stand to reason that the cost wouldn't almost double but at least stay stagnant. Nevertheless, if they are locked in paying the 2022 natural gas screwed power rates, then we are just screwed until 2024. Unless there is some clause that allows rates to be renegotiated.
respaaaaaj t1_j5rg8vk wrote
I think that Mills forced them to give us a better deal yes.
That being said I don't think CMP is benevolent, I think that the fossil fuel companies funding the opposition fo to the corridor are malevolent and are acting because they don't want more green energy competing with their oil and natural gas plants in New England including Maine.
And between the two I think Texas based fossil fuel companies are more malevolent than Avangrid yes.
I'm not pro CMP, I'm anti fossil fuel industry
respaaaaaj t1_j5rggmx wrote
You were just saying that CMP was building windmills and dams in Maine to provide power to Massachusetts, you don't get to pretend you didn't say that
blainemoore t1_j5rikyd wrote
Bought into community dollar in spring 2021, online right before the new year so we got the tax credit, and been enjoying my $13/mo bill since late spring 2022 for the connection fee and first 50kwh. Break even has gone from 7 years to just over 2 years since we originally signed up.
safetysmitty3990 t1_j5rinz0 wrote
There are liquid natural gas terminals in New England that would normally be adding gas supply at mid-points in the pipelines. And the prices paid at those terminals are normally very high compared to pipeline gas, which they needed to be to attract loads here instead of other terminals around the world. Now with the war in Ukraine, LNG terminals in Europe are paying far higher rates than prices in New England, so ships are going there instead.
ecco-domenica t1_j5rnu35 wrote
I have standard offer and my estimated bill is already showing approx. 50% jump over last January.
curtludwig t1_j5rsv79 wrote
If you have facts to the contrary then present them.
SobeysBags t1_j5rtp0m wrote
So the microcosm of new England, Maine specifically, is paying higher prices for natural gas, despite the price going down everywhere else, even Europe. I'm not seeing any evidence for that no matter where I look. What are your sources or is this assumption? Nevertheless, my original question was are prices locked in even if natural gas dropped even more in terminals or pipelines?
Fabulous_Engineer_79 t1_j5run79 wrote
If you can’t think of anything different about Maine power compared to other New England states, keep your sweeping generalizations to yourself.
safetysmitty3990 t1_j5rv5ix wrote
The evidence is the higher prices lol. Default rates are usually bid out for a year at a time: https://www.maine.gov/mpuc/regulated-utilities/electricity/standard-offer-rates/cmp
My description of the market is glossing over quite a bit of nuance that I don't really care to actually get into. Source: I've worked as an energy consultant in New England for over a decade.
AnxiousWillingness t1_j5rv7dl wrote
Because they suck?
Up $80 this month. Fuckers
ppitm t1_j5s6ntm wrote
Because Maine's only nuclear plant was shut down and not replaced. Then gas prices went through the roof.
SpaceBus1 t1_j5t9esg wrote
According to CMP and Versant they needed to raise rates to pay for infrastructure maintenance and improvements. However, they also spent tens of millions of dollars on advertising against publicly owned power and the CMP corridor.
SobeysBags t1_j5tagbh wrote
The price was high last year, the natural gas prices have fallen just this month or two. Considering they locked in those prices at the height of the natural gas price last year, it kind of sucks that those prices have been locked in, when natural gas will most likely fall even further. This will mean huge profits for energy providers using natural gas based energy to Maine. Bummer the negotiations didn't have a adjustment clause built in. Seems like an oversight.
Sources would be good, any energy consultant can still be a "trust me bro". Either way it's a moot point since the prices are locked in from natural gases high last year.
safetysmitty3990 t1_j5tc9tu wrote
Here's an article I spent 5 seconds searching for on Google: https://www.naturalgasintel.com/haynesville-output-to-top-16-bcf-d-as-total-lower-48-production-continues-to-climb/
They talk about exactly the same phenomenon I am and even had a nice graph. I'm actually surprised you 'haven't been able to find any evidence' since it's all over search 'new england natural gas basis'.
Loki_will_Rise t1_j5tdh7r wrote
Small portion CMPs delivery fee is Ludacris
curtludwig t1_j5tg20v wrote
So you don't have any facts?
SobeysBags t1_j5tmeoj wrote
ok, I guess I am not being clear enough, I apologize if that is the case. I am not debating about 2022 or pervious gas prices, I know those are high. I am saying the price is dropping right now, as we speak, currently, in the present. However the price for the standard is locked in from 2021/2022. So as the price falls for natural gas across the board, right now, Mainers will be stuck with one of the highest electricity rates they have had until the standard offer is renegotiated for 2024 (unless natural gas should increase again in 2023 , who knows with world events). Sheesh.
manual84 t1_j5tu7jz wrote
I commented this in a different thread about CMP but the tinfoil hat conspiracy thinking about "CMP punishing us" has got to stop. It distracts us from being level-headed and rational about a way forward. It's just not the case! I don't need to clarify the rate increase because everyone else already has noted it's on the supply side but I am just so sad to see people continue to get so distracted by their feelings about CMP which don't match up with reality.
Carleton_Willard t1_j5u139n wrote
Title isn't very accurate nor does it make sense.
Our utilities did not request or benefit from the more than 120% in rate increases in the last year. Your monthly electric bill has doubled and tripled because of natural gas/ supply. Its only fair to understand the facts and know who you should be angry with.
the_wookie_of_maine t1_j5u2xci wrote
You should look at different rates if you apply to them on the CMP site: CMP Pricing
Depening on your usage you might be able to get a lower rate (From SEASONAL HEAT PUMP, ELECTRIC TECHNOLOGY RATE, LOAD MANAGEMENT SERVICE)
djbambizzle t1_j5u5nub wrote
ELI5? Is there a website or company name?
safetysmitty3990 t1_j5ue6gb wrote
I'm sorry for being dismissive. I understand your question and I haven't done a good job getting my point across. There are NYMEX natural gas futures contracts that are falling, but you also need the basis piece (the cost of moving the physical gas molecules through pipelines) to get a complete price. So delivered wholesale gas is gas futures + basis futures. Even when gas futures fall, basis futures have remained elevated. I've been trying to find a source but basis futures priced are not available for free (you'd need a Bloomberg Machine or ICE subscription). Here is an article that has a graph of pricing for the 23-24 winter season: https://www.nrg.com/insights/energy-education/purchasing-strategies-for-new-england-market-dynamics.html
Bottom line is when you see the headlines that gas prices are falling, it's not reflective of what the real delivered price is in New England.
Fabulous_Engineer_79 t1_j5uimhn wrote
Burden of proof is on you buddy.
ohdeerdowneast t1_j5v8r4d wrote
Fuel doubled... It takes fuel to produce electricity. Not all electricity comes from dams and turbines, so its actually quite ironic that they want everyone to switch over to electric everything. Don't expect to ever see the bills go back down as the world changes to be "more green."
Inner-Measurement441 t1_j5vq8uq wrote
The corridor is not dead…. Just watch
izzygreene207 t1_j5whmsh wrote
From the Natural Gas Companies, like NextEra and New Brunswick! They have gotten a 120% rate increase in a year.
Mainer2727 t1_j5wi0s7 wrote
The corridor doesn't have anything to do with our current rates, although it is one project that could actually bring an increase in energy potential to our area. As many people have said, CMP only controls the delivery portion of your bill, which is much smaller than the supply portion. Unfortunately, they often take the fall for the whole increase, even though fossil fuel companies are really the people to blame!
BillDStrong t1_j6bao9a wrote
I mean, prices in other areas are 5X more right now, so I believe you.
Professional_Box8312 t1_j6j31nm wrote
Spot on. So many commenters continue to blame CMP for these rate increases when they have nothing to do with it.
joeydokes t1_j5pyp1k wrote
Worst part is: the corridor likely isn't going to get shut down.
MNW is going to look like Clinton Co, NY; with 100's of windmills sprouting up like shrooms in the next few years; energy headed to MA that needs the corridor to get there.