GMK Lavender. My first group-buy - probably my last.

Submitted by oakwardly t3_120lxlz in MechanicalKeyboards

Hello. Wanted to start a discussion on this, because I feel kind of conned.

I started getting into building keyboards at the start of 2021. I quickly came to realize it was an expensive interest, so I saved up money to build a proper first 65%, even though not all parts that I specifically wanted were available. At the time the concept of a "group-buy" was new to me, nonetheless I took a gander and ordered a GMK Lavender set to finish the build; I specifically wanted either a hiragana or katakana addition, because I liked how it looked.

Never have I ever been disappointed in something this much. I've been waiting to finish my build for more than 2 years now, there is almost no info on the matter and it's kind of painful to see the order freezed up like that. In fact - I originally wanted to get GMK Striker, because well, it was in my favourite colour, had hiragana AND Taeha Types featured in a video through which I first found out about the custom keeb community, so it really stuck with me.

To rub salt in the wound even more, GMK Striker 2 is literally available in this very moment. It really does anger me as much as it saddens me. As of writing this post, the core kit of GMK Lavender has a date estimate from the supplier, but the Rabendra (alt kit, which I choose) STILL has no info on shipping or updates. I can't cancel the order and get my money back, nor do I have free funds to just buy another kit right now.

I really don't wish this experience upon anyone first starting off building custom keyboards, because it feels very discouraging to continue the hobby. Yeah, you save money or whatever, but I loved the process of building and stylizing my work tool however I wanted.

What are your thoughts on this?

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RelativeChance t1_jdhz3pi wrote

What are you talking about? GMK Lavender has finished production and is shipping to vendors. All gmk kits for a set are produced at the same time so I have no idea what you are talking about when you are saying that the Rabendra kit has no info or updates but the core kit does. I also don't understand why you didn't pre order striker 2 instead of lavender if that is what you really wanted. Gmk group buys are disappointingly long but it seems like you were completely unaware of that, every vendor has lots of disclaimers about the group buys on the product page and at checkout

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oakwardly OP t1_jdi1qj1 wrote

About the disclaimers - I knew what I was getting into - hence me complaining about it on reddit as opposed to messaging the vendor; I do not want to bother them with petty comments about the lenght of shipping or manufacturing, because it in fact was clearly stated in the group-buy as you say.

It's just a bit frustrating, to get no info from them. :( I don't care for other vendors, when the one, which I ordered from doesn't inform me on anything.

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oakwardly OP t1_jdi0d3i wrote

I purposefully am not addressing the vendor from which I bought, to avoid any negative comments about them; in case I've might misread anything wrong ..

But as of this moment, Candykeys.eu, does not have any information on the page of the GMK Lavender besides "out of stock". Which doesn't make sense.. On my order page it says "in manufacturing", which makes even less sense. This whole situation is bogus; because precisely as you say - other vendros are having it shipped right now and there is info available on them, but why Is Candykeys.eu not addressing any updates?

As for GMK Striker, obviously I did not pre-order, because the group-buy was not available at the time when I bought Lavender.

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RelativeChance t1_jdi17fw wrote

I think they may just not be updating their website. The information I have is from Space holding's discord and this information is the same for all vendors. You were still able to preorder gmk striker extras while it was in production after the gb period, the gmk lavender gb came after striker r2. You can try to cancel your order, but I dont think they will agree so another option is to sell the gmk lavender kits you bought on the aftermarket when it has shipped to you

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oakwardly OP t1_jdi3sfz wrote

Thanks for your time and suggestions.

Yes, true. I might have missed the the Striker R2. When I bought Lavender I wasn't really interested in delving deeper into the Striker matter; it really isn't a big deal, I don't mind receiving Lavender (after all, I did like it and took the gander at the group buy because of it), I just hope its going to ship in the coming month or 2 ...

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holicajolica t1_jdi7jid wrote

Unfortunately not all venders updates the progress of their GBs to the same degree, so I find that you usually have to cross check a bunch of venders, if that doesn't work I check the geekhack GB thread for the set, and if that doesn't go anywhere I see if the designer has a discord and go there.

As for GMK Lavender itself, like people have said it's being shipped right now (my vender for the set, Ashkeebs, is currently shipping it). I actually expected the set to ship much later in the year but GMK has been doing well chugging through their backlog. If you're worried I suggest you talk to your vender, I know you don't want to bother them but they're really your only point of contact for what you have bought so just go ahead and do it next time. The worst they can do is ghost you.

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oakwardly OP t1_jdia70h wrote

Thanks for the suggestion!

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holicajolica t1_jdiblj4 wrote

Good luck! It looks like a beautiful set, I hope you get it (or your refund goes through, whichever you decide on). :)

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ninpho2246 t1_jdhvb3c wrote

Contact your bank and tell them what happened you bought a product and it has not come, you tried contacting the business first they could not deliver their contract agreement. Now your bank will refund the transaction after the pending gets confirmed.

I'm about to do this for a Kickstarter project that's 2 years late.

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oakwardly OP t1_jdhwqnc wrote

I didn't know this, I might try this if I can't persuade a refund. I asked for updates, but got only vague answers back. Thank you for the suggestion.

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808s-n-KRounds t1_jdmgpuw wrote

Be careful about doing this as you’ve explained the orders are actually shipping or have a date. This process is for actually canceled products that will never ship. Being slow isn’t breaking contract

You have a right to be unsatisfied even if you do eventually receive it, but as other comments have stated, it’s not like the product has gone silent. A breach of contract is a reason to contact your bank. Being slow when the product was originally advertised as being slow to arrive isn’t a breach of contract

If you really feel the vendor is giving you the run around, then that’s a different story, and let’s be clear, either way your experience is a bad one and you have the right to be unsatisfied with it

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Maeggsi t1_jdhtmfl wrote

Have you tried messaging your vendor and cancel the order. What was their response? Many vendors prefer happy customers and refund the order.

I can only comment on the EU situation but because of customer protection laws we are allowed to cancel the group buy/ send it back after receiving it an get our money back (does not work with custom designed boards tho).

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oakwardly OP t1_jdhxgqy wrote

I havent persuaded about refunds, only updates, yet they were vague at best.

Coincidentally, I also live in the EU, so it's reassuring to know this if I do in fact decide to ask for a refund. I didn't really specify, but there really isn't a dedicated place in the site to cancel, so I assumed that it cant be cancelled. I thought that group-buys really are un-cancellable.

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MayAsWellStopLurking t1_jdkwhhs wrote

The best part of being in the EU is that they really care about enforcing consumer protections.

Just because there isn’t a dedicated page to request a cancellation doesn’t mean it isn’t a legally an option.

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Zecil42 t1_jdhy3sy wrote

I'm in the same situation with the KAT Space Dust set. I got some inexpensive caps so I can use the rest of the keyboard until they arrive.

This is my first and last group buy. I understand the delays due to COVID, but there is very little communication from the vendor and consumer on the status of the orders. The only time we get an update is when another estimated shipping date has been missed.

From my experience, only buy into group buys if you're comfortable with never seeing a return on investment.

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oakwardly OP t1_jdhz8yz wrote

Yes! I also bought an inexpensive E-PBT kit as a temporary solution, but it's kinda sad that I've already worn down the keyboard even as completely new keycaps are on the way .. I'm also reluctant to send another complaint, because the keycaps may (?) arrive soon, I just don't get it, I am pretty disoriented as to what I should do ..

.. but after all the comments on the post, I feel a bit more willing to send them an actual request for a refund, since I could just buy the kit that I originally wanted.

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Titan721 t1_jdj6ppi wrote

At think the reality is we can't trust Keyreative. They didn't do their homework on if they could do reverse dye subbing before taking all the Group buys on, so now we're not even getting dye subbed, it's double shot. Secondly, they promised to be better before about communication back at the start of 2022 and failed spectacularly. Finally, they're willing to ship GB orders without final approval because they're that desperate to get orders out the door. (Happened with KAT Space Cadet)

I could write more talking about how disappointed I was with Space Cadet and KAT as a whole. But that's another topic for another time. I'll still do GBs, I've had good experiences. I'm just not doing Keyreative anything for the foreseeable future.

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kylejwchan t1_jdi0ret wrote

I had my set ship last week in Canada so I’m sure yours is either on route to your vendor or getting prepped to ship to you.

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oakwardly OP t1_jdi290o wrote

I really hope that my frustration didn't boil over at the worst timing. Cause it's starting to sound like I felt conned just as the kit is being sent to everyone with the difference being, that I was misinformed. ;_;

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kylejwchan t1_jdi2ho2 wrote

Maybe just hold out a bit longer. Hopefully yours ships soon

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Fraaaaan t1_jdizm66 wrote

GMK group buys take a while. There's an ETA listed on every GMK set during GB so you knew what you were getting into when you originally purchased the keyset.

It's completely understandable to prefer in-stock stuff, especially if you're new to the hobby but that's just not realistic for the high-end enthusiast stuff.

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AdmiralDandy t1_jdjacbt wrote

I get your frustration completely. That’s why I refuse to do GBs unless it’s for a board/kit I really want. And even then I rarely do that.

My suggestion, don’t do GBs anymore. Just lurk mechmarket instead. Usually by the time people get their GB order delivered to them they don’t even have the vision for the build anymore and end up selling the key set for less than cost. It’s aftermarket though, which has its own risks, but I feel like this community is filled with honest people. I have had no bad experiences buying off MM so far.

And on top of aftermarket, a lot of the sets these days will have GB extras that the vendors stock. They’re generally more expensive than if you had joined the GB but you will at least see what people are saying about the set before you buy. GB you go in blind and there’s a lot that can go wrong. Delays, bad color matching, etc. Drop, Omnitype and Novelkeys have various GMK sets in stock rn. I suggested going to them for things before ever joining another GB.

So much in this hobby is so ass backwards. Can’t wait until GBs eventually get phased out as the big vendors continue to grow.

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Harke_KB t1_jdjczf4 wrote

I got my GMK lavender but I am in Australia, hopefully you get yours soon

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Silentism t1_jdm4dll wrote

Group buys in this hobby have existed even before COVID existed, and before COVID existed, this hobby was super tiny. Group buys didn't take years to fulfill, and I've read GMK could fulfill group buys within 9 months. And then Taeha blew up with the Tfue build, and so did the hobby. And it seems like an exponential growth. GMK just wasn't prepared for that increase in demand, but continued to take on all these group buy demands because the money was just there. For a company who was only involved in making keycaps as a side hustle, all those group buys when the hobby blew up was just free money laying on the table for them, so why not take it? And so they took on more group buys one after the other, and now they had this huge queue that they couldn't even clear within a reasonable amount of time. All while COVID was causing all these employment issues. There was an issue of resin shortages worldwide as well, although not sure if that's really a big factor in this. But basically, the huge delay comes from GMK being too greedy and taking too many group buys than they could handle AND covid just fucking the whole world over.

I'm pretty sure somewhere in 2021, people were just starting to figure out that there'd be huge delays in fulfillment. 2022, it should have been for sure known there'd be a huge delay past what was being quoted on vendor sites. So I feel like the timelines on vendor sites also just added to the shitty resentment everyone has for GBs. So yea, I get how anyone would be mad when their keycap set is quoted by the vendor to finish in a year, and then only now has shown to possibly get delivered to them nearly two years later. Along with the limited communication that's very dependent on the vendors and for the most part required you to get on their discord.

And so, the supply just wasn't meeting the demand. So all these other companies like JTK, MW, DMK, Signature Plastics got into the group buy game. Its just money waiting to be made.

However, GMK did say they got a ton of sorting machines at the start of this year and they claim to be able to clear the queue of all the group buys made before by Q4-ish. And if you see how much faster they're pumping out sets this year it honestly might happen.

I think without group buys there certainly isn't a whole lot of variety in the hobby. I truly think the idea of getting behind someone's design of a board or keycaps with matching deskmats or artisan collabs is a really cool idea, and its even cooler that we as a community have access to that kind of customization. For that reason alone I think group buys are here to stay for a long while, and will only get better from here imo.

But of course it has its cons of waiting and hoping you're not part of the 1% of GBs that end up being a scam. But nowadays there's just a ton of options for instock boards and keycaps. And that's not even getting into clones and that level of quality. Theres domikey, PBTFans, Cannonkeys, Novelkeys, and a few sets from ePBT and Signature Plastics (DSA, SA profiles) that have instock keycaps.

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dak148 t1_jdvf39j wrote

Lavender and all the kits that went into group buy around that time suffered the most from covid/the supply chain issue. That was the height of the keyboard craze when there were literally 15+ group buys a month. I am also waiting on lavender and it is definitely the longest I've had to wait for any set since 2020. Besides that and daifuku from 2021, I haven't bought anything else and kind of done with the hobby- don't need anymore keyboards or keycap sets.

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Giggs73 t1_jdltynx wrote

i don't get it why u feel conned. GMK GBs are that long and u should know and unless u are at their discord, u won't get any updates from vendor.

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