Submitted by CatboyMac t3_yfw07z in MechanicalKeyboards
Comments
BitIndividual1510 t1_iu5h5m8 wrote
Jesus the sides of those clones are brutal
Ctrl-C-C-C-C t1_iu5jz70 wrote
It looks like it’s just dust and OP has used it for some time.
EDIT: Please read the comments below for proper explanation.
BitIndividual1510 t1_iu5k617 wrote
Nope, that's poor dye-sub on the sides. Dust is also there, but I was referring to the poor dyesub job.
Ctrl-C-C-C-C t1_iu5kqc3 wrote
What is poor about the dye-sub? The colour looks way off, sure. I only notice the sides have very, very minor chips from what I could distinguish from the amount of dust on the side of the keycaps.
EDIT: Please read the comments below for proper explanation.
BitIndividual1510 t1_iu5kuir wrote
I guess you've never seen a reverse dyesub job where the color underneath is coming through because of how thin the reverse dyesub job is, but that is what you are looking at (I have a set next to me with the same issue). It is not dust, but there is also dust on there.
Ctrl-C-C-C-C t1_iu5lsk6 wrote
I see. So it’s the lighter shade of blue on the front-side (facing the camera).
BitIndividual1510 t1_iu5m4he wrote
Yup. Whole keycap is the legend color, then reverse dyesub dyes the darker color on top of that. When it's cheaply done, the lighter color is visible through it, typically on the sides.
I've got a NicePBT Elderberry set with the same issue (pink color coming through dark purple) though it doesn't look quite this bad.
Ctrl-C-C-C-C t1_iu5mspj wrote
That’s why the general rule of thumb is to only purchase lighter colours like white and beige for dye-sub PBT keycaps.
Reverse/5-side dye-sub marketed themselves so well as if it’s the best thing, yet the quality is sub-par most of the time.
Blur_410 t1_iu82dgw wrote
And you met the requirements for a redemption arc.
M0ltz t1_iu8t06n wrote
Milkyway seems to be the only one who has a handle on it. PBT Atmosphere is flawless, outside of the caps being tight. It's the only reverse dyesub I've seen without issue. Maybe I got lucky, dunno, but all the other manus doing reverse dyesub seem to suffer from uneven dying and sloppy legends that aren't even, especially Kat. Kat Cyberspace is an outright embarrassment, hard to believe Kono is still trying to sell them they are so bad. Then again even Cannonkeys isn't above selling bad sets/boards at full price either, which is why the pre-order model is so ridiculous. The shops are all incentivized to hide imperfections once they get stock in to avoid taking losses when manufactures fuck up. Right above you a guy says NicePBT Elderberry is unacceptable. Cannonkeys still out there slinging em. Quality control? Never fucking heard of it.
CatboyMac OP t1_iu5kb5q wrote
It’s a bit dusty, but that gradient was always there. Even if it was a great dye-sub job, it would compare to doubleshot plastic.
Ctrl-C-C-C-C t1_iu5lnk8 wrote
My advice is to just get doubleshot ABS clones from aifei. If you don’t know how to buy from taobao through superbuy, then buy from sumgsn on Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Keycaps-Double-Profile-Switches-Mechanical/dp/B09HXBVPRD
I would still recommend you to get from aifei through superbuy.
Blur_410 t1_iu83daj wrote
The correct answer is to support the companies that make quality products and treat their customers and employees correctly. Some clone manufacturers are notorious for making the wrong moves while a very small number are genuinely good.
Ctrl-C-C-C-C t1_iu8jk06 wrote
Aifei, shenpo, and xiami (or XMI or its main US vendor which is 21kb), are good people that try to bring good and affordable doubleshot ABS and dye-sub PBT to the hobby.
I only recommend buying from these people. Please don’t buy cheap dye-sub PBT clones from other people, especially HK Gaming. You’ll just get awful dye-sub quality like in this post or people that don’t care about this hobby.
Also, I have 2 of Keychron’s doubleshot PBT keycaps sets. It is fantastic. The legends may not look like GMK, but at least it’s consistent. Its compatibility is unrivalled. Largest kit for just 40 USD.
exeacc27938 t1_iu89797 wrote
Not everyone can afford nice GMK’s and wait like 3 years for them to arrive lmao
Mycroft2046 t1_iu8icg0 wrote
Then buy Nicepbt. Or NK's pbt sets . There are plenty of good keycap sets in the market right now. There's absolutely no excuse to buy clone sets anymore.
Ctrl-C-C-C-C t1_iu8j065 wrote
Honestly, morals alone cannot convince a lot of people to spend 80 USD for a keycap set.
Aifei new icons only modifier doubleshot ABS keycaps set is selling for 139 RMB which is like 19 USD and it has basically 2 sets in one. https://m.tb.cn/h.U4iAENr
Many SEA countries are third world countries. They don’t have the means to live like first world countries. Even US people struggle with minimum living wage with high rent prices. Morals being a concern for buying clones is very, very low in priority for most of these people and we should never bully them out of the hobby.
Blur_410 t1_iuc6ghr wrote
If I lived dollar to dollar, I likely wouldn’t care about keyboards as I likely couldn’t even afford a computer to use them with. That said, I wish those that absolutely cannot afford keyboards as a hobby all the best. A lot of people I have seen with the cheap keyboards and clone GMKs own multiple keyboards. They could clearly have invested in one good board but chose to chase a certain aesthetic or garner clout with some staggering number of keyboards. Supporting the clone manufacturers as a poor person merely promotes the poor management practices that create more poor people elsewhere. It’s why I buy keyboard stuff maybe once a month, then I can make a sound decision on what I want without compromise. Yeah I don’t build a keyboard a week like a lot of the newer people in the hobby but I am satisfied
Ctrl-C-C-C-C t1_iuck4m9 wrote
Not necessarily paycheck to paycheck that kind of poor. It's just that they are the kind of people that like mechanical keyboards as it is and don't need anything more than a plastic kit with keycaps that they don't need to spend above 50 USD.
It is just a different priority for them (house, family, kid's future education) and mechanical keyboards is just very low on the list. They are satisfied because they are able to customise a keyboard to their liking.
I do not encourage buying from companies like HK Gaming because they aren't enthusiast, just cash grabbers. Or to buy some poorly cloned dye-sub PBT keycaps with cloned novelties.
Please actually look at the sellers that I recommend. Aifei that sells clone sets do not copy novelties. In fact, he/she puts his/her own novelties in the set, such as Ai and Fei in Chinese characters.
Blur_410 t1_iuco5xr wrote
The people who don’t care about showing off their boards that much don’t really post a lot on this Reddit. Thus I see it as a non-issue. And I’m not a GMK absolutist. Some of my favorite keycaps sets are made by JTK and Domikey, who make Cherry double shot clones, triple shots, and an improved version of SA. I’m not even against the practice of clones, but buy things that are worth the money. Cheap PBT reverse dyesubs are clearly not worth the money.
Ctrl-C-C-C-C t1_iucy94t wrote
I think we are arguing for the same point.
Those sellers that I have mentioned do not sell reverse dye-sub. They sell doubleshot ABS or dye-sub PBT for beige or white keycaps.
If you have actually tried them then you have the right to judge them but don’t judge them to be poor quality when you have never bought keycaps from those 3 sellers that I have mentioned. Bonus mention is Keychron’s doubleshot PBT cherry profile keycaps.
Blur_410 t1_iudmaa7 wrote
I will be transparent, I actually don’t like PBT keycaps all that much. Not to say I don’t own quite a few, but I prefer ABS as a material for the feel. That said I have been to many meetups and have seen quite a few boards from average people. I would consider this as an acceptable alternative to buying all the cheap PBT caps ever(I have bought some). I wasn’t even trying to necessarily argue clones versus genuine, I was trying to argue quality per dollar.
Ctrl-C-C-C-C t1_iudq40e wrote
Yeah but did your meet-ups have beige, grey, or white dye-sub PBT keycaps from XMI or shenpo? XMI is on the pricier side ever since he stopped selling on xianyu and taobao. He was selling for 198 RMB ~ 27.3 USD. Now on 21kb is about 60 USD. Which is still cheaper than most beige sets out there.
For shenpo, it’s very cheap for large compatibility. https://m.tb.cn/h.UVzUxZM?tk=tkg9dZLc8ld This beige set with Hebrew sub legends is only 188 RMB which converts to 26 USD. The quality per dollar is insane compared to lousy clones with reverse dye-sub.
These dye-sub pbt have smooth texture. I’m not sure if you understand but I’ll try to explain. Some ABS sets have those texture like when you rub your finger against it slowly, it will skip little by little. When I type on it, it moves me finger ever so slightly after bottoming out that it throws me off and I hate it.
Aifei’s previous batches of doubleshot ABS have that same texture, but for that price (169 RMB ~ 23.3 USD), I really can’t complain. Their new icons only mod doubleshot ABS set have very smooth texture like dye-sub PBT. I managed to try it at a recent meet-up but I didn’t test this “skipping” texture. If you just move quickly over it, it feels very smooth. I just ordered one set to try out for myself.
Keychron’s doubleshot PBT cherry profile keycaps have smooth texture too but a little “skippy” which triggers me a little hahaha. I’ve touched some doubleshot PBT from Monokei as well and that has quite rough texture. So I guess it’s not about the material, but rather the moulds that they use. It’s quite difficult to judge a set’s texture before touching it yourself :/
Again, not arguing against poorly made dye-sub or 5-side dye-sub PBT keycaps. Just trying to show you that there are dye-sub PBT keycaps that are done well and well worth its 25-30 USD price tag
defaultfieldstate t1_iu5krms wrote
Have seen some pretty good clones on this sub. This is not one of them! 🤣
hawk5656 t1_iu7sk47 wrote
gmk quality? I doubt it
kapowaz t1_iu61gv5 wrote
Hopefully this goes some way to explaining why clones cost less.
29mashiro t1_iu7jloc wrote
not all clones look this bad/far from the original though
kapowaz t1_iu8amks wrote
True, but there’s very little way of gauging quality up front, and once you have the product in-hand you’re basically stuck with it. It’s not like you can hold the vendor to account and demand something that looks like the product photos.
This is why there will always be a niche for the more expensive group buy model: it won’t be for everyone (and the price does exclude some people), but the expectation is that you’ll get the product you paid for, and you can hold the vendor to account if something goes wrong.
I remain hopeful that it’ll be possible to make injection moulded sets cheaper without sacrificing quality. There’s always going to be more esoteric designs for which this isn’t possible, but the obvious slam dunk designs deserve to be made in larger quantities where economies of scale come into play, lowering the barrier to entry. We’re starting to see this with sets from Domikey, PBTFans, Mode and Drop. They’re not cheap enough yet imho, but it’s still early days.
Psychological-Bug552 t1_iu93f93 wrote
I have sent a half dozen sets back to Amazon. They have an excellent return policy. You absolutely are not stuck with it.
kapowaz t1_iu9d2u8 wrote
I’m less talking about consumer protections so much as “this is what the product looks like, it’s not just bad QC; a replacement will look just as bad”
VAWLTGHOST t1_iu5mljv wrote
Ah yes, Amazon...the world's online flea market.
flicknote t1_iu5yeh0 wrote
i kinda like the clones more
RelativeChance t1_iu7ytsy wrote
Is it people like you that are the reason companies sell new jeans worn and ripped?
GreatGarage t1_iu863r8 wrote
Is it people like you that are the reason companies sell their shit far more expensive than their value ?
RelativeChance t1_iu86swn wrote
I am not taking about the value, just making a joke about the shade of blue this dude likes, but if a product is not something people need to survive then it is worth whatever people will to pay for it.
flicknote t1_iu98jfk wrote
no i just hate all forms of jeans lol
distressed jeans look bad on anyone
EnjoyMyInSec t1_iu9kihq wrote
The fact that this dogshit sub downvote you for speaking facts is mind blowing, this community is pathetic.
RelativeChance t1_iu9rjht wrote
This sub will downvote you if you say something even remotely negative about clone keycap sets, even if you have no problem with clone sets and will also downvote you if you say anything positive about Kalam.
Domermac t1_iu6bbaq wrote
That’s not even close
sah4r t1_iu8b9rv wrote
The argument of clones vs genuine has been out there since pretty much the beginning. I’m kinda in the middle of both camps and understand both sides. Yes when someone copies any design it harms the designer generally but on the other hand especially with GMK it’s not that you can get them anyways most times if you miss the GB. Also GMK wait time is just ridiculous. Also even though there are straight up rip offs I personally wouldn’t consider keycaps that just share the same color clones unless all mods and legends are also exactly the same. Especially I don’t get it when people call WOB keycaps GMK clones but Polycaps (esp Seal which are essentially modo without color mods) even though they are made by the same factory
[deleted] t1_iu9nn3k wrote
[deleted]
sah4r t1_iua866g wrote
That’s what I’m saying - it’s not like you’re depriving the manufacturer of genuine ones of potential profit if they are oos lol. Also no plastic is worth $120+ lol even the most expensive one. QC is also an arguable point - GMK spacebar are warped af. I have 3 GMK sets and all 3 have warped spacebars to a certain extent
Blur_410 t1_iucoq1y wrote
This is true. Most of what you pay for in GMK is branding, kitting, QC, and the feel of owning keyboard history. For some GMK sets the last point is worth so much money aftermarket prices reflect their true worth.
29mashiro t1_iu7jila wrote
clones look washed
shubashubamogumogu t1_iu7wmu7 wrote
Is this GMK vs ABS double-shot clones? or is it GMK vs Reverse dye-sub clones?
PasteIIe t1_iu71m8d wrote
there's so much dust on the clones LOL
KuroRyuu86 t1_iu7jg07 wrote
I know your comparing with clones. But i legit thought that it was a full keyset
That kinda looks good in terms of looks. Darker blue on top and faded blue at the bottom.
Tytn99 t1_iu7mb55 wrote
Holy crap I read it as numbers being clones at first and I was amazed. Those Amazon clones sat in the sun for a few too many decades
Tytn99 t1_iu7mk0g wrote
Oooooohhh hold up you have been daily driving the clones for a bit. That buildup on the f key bump + dust is not from Amazon I’d hope. I’m glad u got the new ones but my man buy a keyboard brush 👌
TOT_Admiral t1_iu7y73x wrote
They look like clothing that’s been poorly taken care of
jh_2719 t1_iu8awum wrote
That grime on the F-bar :grim:
Either-Sherbert4648 t1_iu8qe5v wrote
The difference in quality is so obvious.
BadPWG t1_iu9jgd3 wrote
Absolute LOL, never going there, I’ll stick to my authentics
I was gutted when I joined this hobby as I missed out on GMK Awaken but I just stuck my email on a website and got messaged about them recently so actually didn’t miss out. Apart from Hyperfuse I’ve actually managed to get every set I wanted through R2’s and extras, just takes some patience and not wining about it on Reddit like a lot of ppl do.
And the ones that get away just accept it and buy something else. There are so many vendors and in stock options out there now that there really is no need for knock offs
emerrin t1_iu7b2qe wrote
Those clones don't look that bad, despite the color difference
Sethecientos t1_iu84qhl wrote
What’s the problem? The color?
576875 t1_iu9ii33 wrote
yep the color
Yoosulis t1_iu8e1sv wrote
Honestly, It all looks better together :/
Tone-Has-Changed t1_iu7vaa4 wrote
Ouch those clones look sun faded.
But don't worry people gmk is speeding up production and have more machines coming...bs
oof-ow-my-bones t1_iu7jpeg wrote
never go with clones! 👌🏻
Desperate_Ear9095 t1_iu5g7xo wrote
i wish there were more keys in focus
SXLightning t1_iu5v41v wrote
Those are not very good clones haha, I think you got ripped off.
Don't buy amazon clones, they are the left overs even people in china wont touch
itspsyikk t1_iu7dd63 wrote
Right, but GMK isn't worth it ;)
Blur_410 t1_iu836i2 wrote
It depends on what you want. If you just want keycaps that look kinda like what you want for a few bucks, to have on a board you feel you spent too much money on, GMK is not for you. If you want a piece of history that ages, and something that lasts and looks exactly as intended, GMK is for you. Both camps have their boons.
transfigure t1_iu5plav wrote
Those are more like cousins than clones.