Submitted by DiplomacyPunIn10Did t3_ycd8hb in MechanicalKeyboards
Comments
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itlge45 wrote
With the group buy for CRP R5, I thought it might be time to share this particular pet peeve that seems to be weirdly widespread.
The legends that Hammer, 21kb, and others have been advertising for quite some time as being "Irish" sublegends are not Irish at all. They are, instead, the US International layout, a layout useful for persons who type primarily on a US keyboard but that need to access characters used by Western and Northern European languages. This layout is also widely used in The Netherlands.
The actual Irish layout is nearly identical to the UK layout.
My suspicion is that this error started with one manufacturer who didn't know any better and has since proliferated. Please stop using a country's name to label and sell a product that has nothing to do with that country. Or, at the very least, do like Syruplabs and start labeling these kits correctly as Not Irish.
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itlhx8j wrote
You could even call them "Dutch" and be at least partially correct.
Harke_KB t1_itlicc3 wrote
funnily enough the renders used in the r/mm gb post say US-INTL https://imgur.com/a/t9kvoI5
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itlid13 wrote
Addendum:
pwade found what appears to be the source of the original error, a run of keycaps from IMSTO. There, the layout was labeled "Irish(USIntl)," which at least got the second part right.
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itlikh6 wrote
After some persuading, Syruplabs corrected them and changed the store page to call them "Not Irish." I really appreciate him doing that.
However, I don't think that change has spread to the other vendors yet.
docentmark t1_itlk8o4 wrote
US International isnât so much widely used in the Netherlands as it is the only layout commonly used in the Netherlands. The main exception is when people buy stuff in neighbouring countries, so the occasional QWERTZ keyboard is seen, for example.
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itlkpqr wrote
Right. I was couching my terminology there because of the older Dutch layout that some still use (though rare).
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itlkyrn wrote
For good or ill, I think the layout most likely to get recognized as Canadian will be the Canadian Multilingual one instead.
[deleted] t1_itllxhj wrote
UnrealizedLosses t1_itlnvgc wrote
But the shamrocks!
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itlobdm wrote
They're pretty, and they can stay. But they're not enough.
Travis_Cauthon t1_itlq4oz wrote
There could be a good reason for that (other than 'Merica which is an amazing reason) which is the layout was likely conceived in the good old US. (Edit the "American amazing" thing is a joke)
mygodhasabiggerdick t1_itlqgrf wrote
Fer fucks sake...
I see ø and ü which are uses in Scandinavian.
I see Ăą used in Spanish etc
I see ä ß Ü ans à which are German (DACH)
How the fuck is this anything other than a Spaghettio-s of EU letters?
BanHammerGotim t1_itlr3sc wrote
Aren't these just international sublegends?
EnjoyMyInSec t1_itlsdms wrote
Itâs not like we need/will change.
Itâs called irish since the early days of the hobby, so, sorry if that bother you but youâll have to deal with it.
Kiwii2006 t1_itlu2xt wrote
ss isnât used in CH, so only äÜß DACHLULI and Ă DA
Qbopper t1_itluibt wrote
I am the #1 anti US defaultism poster, but tbf, we have Canadian layouts that have french on the keys as well
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itlv17a wrote
Itâs US International, which is intended as a multilingual layout.
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itlv4ss wrote
Right. US International layout. Widely used in the Netherlands.
65160 t1_itlwfmt wrote
This is such a poor mindset
EnjoyMyInSec t1_itlwluv wrote
I wonât change how I name something for like 6 years just because some dudes got pissed about it. Feel free to find a name
65160 t1_itlx2oh wrote
Just because it was wrong for 6 years doesn't make it right
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itlxhuj wrote
Things change names all the time, and this one is honestly pretty easy since itâs objectively wrong.
EnjoyMyInSec t1_itlxxlr wrote
Well feel free to find a name then :) But for now it will remain green irish legends.
wosmo t1_itlygcf wrote
So if you're actually looking for the US Intl layout, do you just .. start searching for random countries? I don't get it.
wosmo t1_itlz90g wrote
That makes it look like "Irish" was intended as a colourway. Within that description, there's no rhyme or rhythm between where they use layout(colours) and colours(layout).
But then they also call US-ANSI "normal english", so .. the idea that anyone would learn layout names from that is worrying.
IHateYouFuckingPpl t1_itm27gu wrote
I donât think anyone but you cares what itâs called tbh
makenmodify t1_itm2txf wrote
For me as a German it is as useless as any oter ANSI QWERTY layout đ¤ˇââď¸
alext5 t1_itm4j96 wrote
False. Iâve never worked for the government and used that layout in the past, although Iâm functional with the two Canadian layouts along with âUS layoutâ if I am only working in a terminal with no accents :)
galtdoe t1_itm4mo7 wrote
Great argument đ¤Ą
Varpie t1_itm5156 wrote
Ah yes, the Scandinavian language, my favorite
c0qu1_00969 t1_itm5bra wrote
Irishish
DarwinMcLovin t1_itm8a2y wrote
Hßp HÜlländ!
AZ_sid t1_itm8bow wrote
Gotta admit, that checks out.
[deleted] t1_itm8ukd wrote
[deleted]
ClappedByLigma t1_itmclig wrote
Those are Irish
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itmdn3g wrote
It appears to be an error originally from IMSTO that got propagated to multiple dyesub manufacturers. KPRepublic might be making the same error, but they probably aren't the source.
They should fix it, if it turns out to be the case.
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itmdq2f wrote
TheFreakingBeast t1_itmef3t wrote
Nah if you look closely the clovers only have 3 leaves, if they were irish they would have 4
rasvial t1_itmfb1f wrote
Idk why you're getting downvotes..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY#:~:text=The%20QWERTY%20layout%20was%20devised,Soul%C3%A9.
WikiMobileLinkBot t1_itmfd3f wrote
Desktop version of /u/rasvial's link: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY>
^([)^(opt out)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)
FreshGravity t1_itmh0ma wrote
Who cares
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itmj87y wrote
ILikeShorts88 t1_itmkw4n wrote
Took me a second to realize that that wasnât the legend on the spacebar.
1-more t1_itmlh3q wrote
To be fair it takes some remembering to know which uses ø vs Ăś for âoeâ and itâs complicated by Ĺ being used in old Norse and ĂŚ being used in a bunch of them currently. Easy to remember that ø isnât used outside of (geographically bounded) Scandinavia but hard to remember where specifically it is used within there.
Prudent-Cattle5011 t1_itmmodf wrote
Canadian multilingual standard
TypicalOranges t1_itmn7vp wrote
Hey man, no one calls those sublegends Irish. They call the colorway Irish because it includes a mix of greens on white with the clover novelties. This is quite obviously a US-Int'l layout!
Hope that clears things up for you!
TypicalOranges t1_itmnitg wrote
> My suspicion is that this error started
Hi! The only error here is in your inference that people are referring to the sublegends when they call this keyset Irish! They are very much referring to the colorway as "Irish". Very hard mistake to make, but don't worry! Irish isn't everyone's first language!
TypicalOranges t1_itmny2y wrote
They are very obviously US-Int'l legends.
OP just made an error.
rasvial t1_itmo62j wrote
Thatariesbloke t1_itmq4op wrote
THANK YOU!
I knew I wasn't the only one narked at this
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itmq6gr wrote
I hope you're being sarcastic, as there are multiple instances.
21kb Irish Classic Retro Beige
>Featuring Irish sublegends
Colorway that's not Irish-themed, just the same layout.
>Font: Irish Languange+Standard US Font
TypicalOranges t1_itmqf64 wrote
I hope you're being sarcastic and this entire post is an elaborate troll, because i find it exceptionally hard to believe people like you actually fucking exist.
Those are chinese clone factory stores. They probably name their fake Yeezy's wrong, too. They do not speak English fluently and are thus prone to naming shit incorrectly, especially when they're ripping the design from some other keyset.
I'd recommend you repost this PSA on Chinese community forums translated appropriately into Mandarin to reach your target audience.
Affenskrotum t1_itmsk8k wrote
redcloud t1_itmt7qd wrote
Ain'trish
purple_rw t1_itmtf6a wrote
The Chinese characters next to US-INTL still says Irish.
JaccoW t1_itmtosy wrote
Mostly because "'Merica is an amazing reason" is the kind of cockiness that's not particularly funny to the rest of the world. Kind of cringe really.
Brvadent t1_itmubh8 wrote
Intermediate Dutch speaker here. How?
TheHumanEMP t1_itmw9f3 wrote
But it clearly says IRISH...
SitDownKawada t1_itmwl8g wrote
Nah, shamrocks have three
Odysseus042 t1_itmy03v wrote
itâs leprechaun layout
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itmybkz wrote
...that being the problem :-P
EddoWagt t1_itmykzs wrote
Tremas (don't know the English word) and accents exist in Dutch, they're just not common
Brvadent t1_itmyvyw wrote
But that doesn't make these dutch sublegends does it?
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itmyzbj wrote
It looks odd, but it's really very useful to type with if you have to use those characters on a semi-regular basis.
Travis_Cauthon t1_itmz32a wrote
It's a joke
Reddit_Shadowban_Why t1_itmzbgs wrote
That's where the partially correct part comes into play
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itmzllu wrote
Because US International is the most widely used keyboard layout in the Netherlands.
Not really a Dutch language layout. More of a Dutch people layout. Thus partially correct.
TheHumanEMP t1_itmzp49 wrote
Ah, I see... would "Kiss me, I'm IRISH" be more authentic then?
WeekendWarriorMark t1_itn0qfk wrote
But where is the gold plated rainbow aviator custom cable?
Vicrooloo t1_itn1dtf wrote
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
jaavaaguru t1_itn52w7 wrote
No more correct than saying Irish though, since I see Ă and Ăł which are used in Irish.
HAPPY_NIHILIST_333 t1_itn5khj wrote
Irish
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itn64xn wrote
âDutchâ is partially correct because this layout is the predominant layout used in the Netherlands.
Duhlune t1_itn81b9 wrote
Is there not satire in other countries?
softriceking001 t1_itn8mdf wrote
yea, those are pretty sober keys.
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itnao02 wrote
Partially correct for a different reason. US International is the most widely used layout in the Netherlands.
Pinkisacoloryes t1_itnh07i wrote
I could be wrong but the imsto pbt group buy may have been the original. Simply subdyed gateron caps. They had different colorways and the green was called Irish. Not sure if it existed prior to that.
Cool_Extent_4355 t1_itni2tv wrote
and it matter soo much
MechaCoffeeBean t1_itnm15e wrote
The most annoying thing for me is that you cant even get them in the layout we use in Ireland...
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itnn9k4 wrote
In this case, thatâs because the sublegends are part of a layout that assumes the primary legends are US, not UK/Irish.
I guess I could see the use case for people who swap between UK/Irish and US International, but Iâm not sure thatâs all that frequent.
What might work better would be to use the full US International legends with the specific UK/Irish primary legends front-printed on keys that differ.
steezkeebs t1_itnt2qm wrote
According to syrup labs, it is now called âNot Irishâ and the picture now reads âUS-INTLâ
YamateOniichan t1_itnvpen wrote
But sir, French fries are not french
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itnvz82 wrote
Yup. I was able to persuade Syrup to make that change. Iâm hoping the other vendors follow suit.
soukaixiii t1_itnzn16 wrote
Why is there an Ă?
Rude_Chipmunk7159 t1_ito2rtq wrote
As an irish person i cant conform since the only reason im on this sub is cuz ooo fancy keyboard still
steezkeebs t1_ito6snq wrote
Awesome! Thanks for the clarifications! :D
Tharrinne t1_ito8ley wrote
The CMS at least has the accents but it's horrible even for this Frenchie... Canadian French is in every way better (for FRENCH Canadians; IMHO and I assume). Though both are software. There's English Canadian too in there.
In Canada, the keyboards you'll find are either US layout or ISO CMS layout. I used to type on CMS with AZERTY french settings and just used the AZERTYUIOP as the home row: had the Enter close enough and all vowels in 1 row it just sucked that the shift keys were further.
Tharrinne t1_ito90bk wrote
What's this "other countries" you speak of?
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itodt7o wrote
The layout is actually US International, which is a multilingual layout that provides access to characters used in Western & Northern European languages. Spanish, French, German, Danish, etc.
It can handle Irish too, but the actual Irish layout is a different thing.
Garland_Key t1_itoiyi7 wrote
IKR!? No pot of gold or lucky charms keys? WTF?
flecom t1_itojuyx wrote
A Møøse once bit my sister...
cglavan83 t1_itoklfx wrote
Those responsible for writing the comments have been sacked.
MrBlack616 t1_itoloyp wrote
âŚ.irish
chilicheesecake1 t1_itoqni2 wrote
Either OP is hard trolling or slowly becoming a karen.
saurterrs t1_itorxhq wrote
And maybe people who actually search for set of keys for irish layout but got this?
IHateYouFuckingPpl t1_itotu8o wrote
If ur buying crp u know exactly what it is and what ur getting.
saurterrs t1_itov05p wrote
No.
It is not about buying crp, it is about searching and buying particular layout that you are searching for. It none will do anything about calling the layout correctly, than you will have hard time on finding the correct one.
Every sale page on any resource goes to the search engines, search engines inspects them, grab the keywords, images, stores them and process. Eventually when you will go looking for set of keys for irish layout you will get ton of garbage results with us international.
IHateYouFuckingPpl t1_itovusy wrote
Look dude no one fucking cares. U are a small small minority and if u really need Irish layout then u already know u wonât get it with crp.
sjuswede t1_itow26y wrote
If you by "geographically bounded Scandinavia" mean the Scandinavian peninsula, your rule of thumb is incorrect.
saurterrs t1_itowshl wrote
You either fail to parse my argument or not willing. Have a good day.
mygodhasabiggerdick t1_itoxzzp wrote
As an American living in Germany, I do understand the functionality of them. My laptop does not have this, I had to learn all the shortcuts.
mygodhasabiggerdick t1_itoy42k wrote
Yeah...yeah... Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, Finnish (maybe...?) .... Fuck me for being too tired to type last night. You heathens know what I meant.
Varpie t1_itoznxs wrote
Finland can be seen as a Scandinavian country, but language wise, the Nordic languages are Danish, Swedish, Norwegian, Faroese and Icelandic. And the alphabet is not common between them, for instance Swedish doesn't have ø but use Ü instead, and Icelandic has ð and more accents.
DHermit t1_itp0fi2 wrote
As I German I use in all the time. I work in academia and do lots of programming do an US layout is much better most of time. But from time to time I need to write a message or mail in German and then Ă, ä, Ăś, Ăź come in handy.
jh_2719 t1_itp6kmo wrote
What about the multitude of sets which are not the greens and whites and still called Irish?
jh_2719 t1_itp6m97 wrote
feiergeier t1_itp6ukn wrote
This seems to be the only right answer here.
fubarecognition t1_itpaqlm wrote
It's more of an Irish American layout in a way, someone actually from Ireland likely wouldn't want to have shamrocks on their keyboard.
It would be like having maple syrup on the French layout, and giving it Cyrillic characters.
nonexistantchlp t1_itpcot5 wrote
I'm pretty sure they're calling the design irish and not the sublegends
You can for example have a japanese themed keyboard with English letters in it
There is nothing inherently wrong about these keycaps.
nonexistantchlp t1_itpcpkc wrote
I'm pretty sure they're calling the design irish and not the sublegends
You can for example have a japanese themed keyboard with English letters in it
There is nothing inherently wrong about these keycaps.
wellenkopf t1_itper96 wrote
And then there's US Alt Intl. that strangely enough cancels out the need for the right Alt key. Instead, for an 'ĂŠ' for example, you just press ' and then e, no need to hold them. I just can't remember if that's a linux thing or also common on Windows...
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itpfv8p wrote
Thatâs already part of US International. There are dead keys on â ` ^ ~ and possibly a couple others.
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itpg85e wrote
Taken out of context you might think that, but itâs one of a list of alpha sets named primarily by their languages.
Then you have multiple other sites explicitly calling it the Irish layout or âIrish Languageâ in the product description.
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itpgbzq wrote
If youâre using Windows or Linux you should have access to this under your language settings. Mac has its own version.
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itpgjgr wrote
If only it were so simple.
21kb Irish Classic Retro Beige
>Featuring Irish sublegends
Colorway that's not Irish-themed, just the same layout.
>Font: Irish Languange+Standard US Font
that-short-girl t1_itpipj1 wrote
Denmark isnât in Scandinavia though and they use ø rather than Ăś
mygodhasabiggerdick t1_itpk644 wrote
Yeah. US keyboard, so I need to alt-click U for ¨ then re-tap the U to get Ă
Its a pain, but Ive gotten used to it.
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itpl0ku wrote
Thatâs interesting. I much prefer just holding AltGr-Y for Ă.
Poschta t1_itpswpv wrote
DACH is one mad miss at a chance to call a region CHAD.
Rogntudjuuuu t1_itpzgcg wrote
It is? What kind of keyboard do they use typically, ISO or ANSI?
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itpzoek wrote
In terms of keyboard layouts, though, the Danish, Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish, Faroese, Greenlandic, and Estonian layouts are all very closely related.
Icelandic is kind of an oddball mix of Danish layout, US layout, and a few keys that don't show up anywhere else.
1-more t1_itq1a5z wrote
I mean that there are Southern SĂĄmi (Uralic language) speakers within Sweden and Norway using ø as welll as the Swedish, Norwegian, and Faroese speakers using ø. The Southern SĂĄmi speakers are within Scandinavia, but their language isnât related to any Indo-European language (or we havenât found a common ancestor yet). So you could call it a Scandinavian language in that it is located entirely within Scandinavia. But if you use Scandinavian to mean a language that is ânorthern Germanic and related to Faroese, Swedish, Danish, both Norwegians, etcâ then that would be wrong.
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itq1lcc wrote
I think they primarily use ANSI, but all ANSI-based layouts work just fine on ISO boards.
1-more t1_itq1m93 wrote
Huh yeah guess you canât really count it as in there since itâs over the water next to Germany. I know itâs somewhat intelligible with Swedish is all. I am playing fast and loose with the definitions here to be charitable to the original commenter.
sjuswede t1_itqcfvr wrote
You will find that Sami does not use ø, and nor does Swedish. The only languages that do are Danish and Norwegian, and Føroyskt mål which is most definitely not connected geographically to anything Scandinavian.
Denmark and the Faroe islands are not in the Scandinavian peninsula. Only Norway is, of the countries with languages which use ø.
Scandinavian, as language, in modern times encompasses Norwegian, Danish, Swedish and Icelandic, with Føroysk as a minor language. Three of those use ø, meaning it is more correct (though still incorrect) to speak of them as using ø.
1-more t1_itqcn9l wrote
Omg Iâm a buffoon, I meant Ăś the entire time like a CHUMP. sorry I got gm that switched.
TypicalOranges t1_itqgd1n wrote
he's just gonna repost some chinese clone manu's that have the names wrong lmao.
TypicalOranges t1_itqgioc wrote
> What about the multitude of sets which are not the greens and whites and still called Irish?
Do you mean Chinese clone manu's that have poor translation?
Or do you mean legitimate English speaking vendors that would actually be able to read this oh so helpful PSA?
jh_2719 t1_itqkw6h wrote
> Chinese clone manu's
Please tell me what they're cloning. Or are you going to tell me that using US-International legends is cloning.
NoPun is correct in informing people that the set isn't 'Irish' sublegends, as people buying it under that pretense are not in fact buying what they think they are due to how the sublegend type name has got mixed over the years.
DiplomacyPunIn10Did OP t1_itqqw37 wrote
21kb is based in the US.
Wuque has been making products for the Western market for a while now, including the Ikki 68 keyboard series. They have people dedicated to maintaining English-language social media.
KPRepublic is a vendor for a variety of brands. They are based in China, but they do speak English as well. They have been selling products worldwide for years at this point.
And the audience isnât solely vendors anyway. Educating fellow customers is one way to bring about change, as it increases the likelihood that the correction is actually mentioned and reaches the people who are currently advertising the product incorrectly.
Even the Chinese clone manufacturers, as you refer to, watch English language social media. Thatâs part of how they determine which keysets are popular enough to be worth ripping off.
mygodhasabiggerdick t1_itw1ruy wrote
Deutschland
Austria
Confederation Helvetica.
Which in itself is all over the place as well...
ClappedByLigma t1_iu0vblj wrote
It was sarcasm lol
pedrorq t1_itlflhv wrote
... What do you mean?! They're green and there's shamrocks!
/s