Submitted by aleksyandr t3_yuo0ik in MechanicalKeyboards
Comments
supermitsuba t1_iwblx26 wrote
They include film? I thought PCB makers just built it in?
I suppose you could line a case with something.
yfa17 t1_iwc2m5f wrote
Yes, between the middle case structure they have a thin black esd protection film that is included.
aleksyandr OP t1_iwc8zic wrote
Yes I used the thin film and the foam.
NovaForceElite t1_iwadlr2 wrote
What happened before it died?
aleksyandr OP t1_iwafdls wrote
Was just doing stuff around the house, then came back into the office and sat down. Touched the keyboard and got a zap. It immediately went out and the USB disconnect sound came from the computer. I unplugged it and waited a few minutes, then plugged it back in. Now no LEDs and the 7, Y, H, N column is out. Should've ordered a spare PCB.
QWERKey-UK t1_iwapu2h wrote
Well.... that's one board to avoid then. No ESD protection at that price is criminal. I can understand how it's possible to zap a PCB when it's out of the case and on the bench, but for this to happen is awful.
Zncon t1_iwc31o9 wrote
Yeah this is wild. A device that's designed to be touched should never have this sort of issue. The big companies can make a $15 board that survives almost anything - an expensive board should be safe.
redkeeb t1_iwdzg2u wrote
I would static shock my Drop Alt all the time; It still kept going.
plat1776 t1_iwbr69g wrote
They have ESD protection in both the board processor and an antistatic film in between the case and the pcb.
pulledoutdad t1_iwbrj2b wrote
If they had it in the processor wouldn’t this not have happened? I thought the film specifically protected non-protected processors
plat1776 t1_iwbt59f wrote
It’s ESD protection not immunity. A large enough shock to any electrical component will cause damage.
LASERman71 t1_iwbzvsy wrote
Finally a voice of reason.
JDBCool t1_iwcif43 wrote
Me: I built mine with a foot on metal the whole time.
Dunno how grounding works, but I always touch another metal object. Then the metal legs of my table
NotSoFull-Info69 t1_iwf0kg5 wrote
An antistatic film is quite the patch instead of a real fix The board processor having ESD protection is definitely not enough from my experience There should atleast be a good number of ESD suppression diodes scattered around the board as well as some sort of grounding which from my knowledge is pretty much missing.
deadlock0345 t1_iwap4al wrote
wow a board of that type of cost and it has no ESD protection? that just blows my mind.... that would almost certainly never happen on a non custom keyboard. so how could they think its acceptable to allow it to even be a possibility on that. i would be so pissed off iof this happened to me, esp since i have so many keebs that have cost me 1k plus to build...i wonder why it being plugged into the usb c cable wouldnt prevent this from happening since its grounded is it not
LASERman71 t1_iwb0boh wrote
>wow a board of that type of cost and it has no ESD protection? that just blows my mind....
You should check your facts before making wrong statements and absurd accusations suggesting the makers intentionally made this possible.
Answering your next question: the so called "ESD protection" does not guarantee total immunity and number of factors may contribute to such incident. No - I am not able to investigate this remotely and this is why I would restrain from making silly conclusions.
RaptorJesusLOL t1_iwbt2om wrote
I’m sorry, you’re defending the keyboard maker for selling products that can’t survive static electricity why?
meatydp t1_iwbvd6a wrote
He probably bought one too.
LASERman71 t1_iwbx3q8 wrote
You're probably just another sheep.
meatydp t1_iwbxlfw wrote
What does that even mean??? lmfaoooo
LASERman71 t1_iwbxqa5 wrote
Google internet sheep to educate yourself ;)
meatydp t1_iwbzi3f wrote
wow i've been blue pilled all along...i will now take the red pill
LASERman71 t1_iwbvypa wrote
No silly, maybe read my comment again and again before typing nonsense.
FYI: I am only opposing false statements about facts and coming up with absurd conclusions - all clearly made by wannabe experts. It has nothing to do with this maker.
>products that can’t survive static electricity
And you just done the same! Congratulations!
You all can downvote as much as you like - you still not qualified to make this judgement about the product or maker.
Tip: read comments below about very similar incident with completely different board from different maker - only total ignorant goes instantly to exclusively blame product or maker.
RaptorJesusLOL t1_iwc2t8d wrote
Nice, now can you write a few more paragraphs on why an expensive custom keyboard susceptible to ESD by touching the key caps is anyone’s fault but the manufacturer?
LASERman71 t1_iwc4ztw wrote
Again you are talking rubbish.
You have no authority to judge this wasn't caused by anything else but "touching the key caps", because you weren't there, you have no info how OP build this board, how his setup is grounded etc etc... I have no time to talk about many other factors involved.
Any consumer electronic device is susceptible to ESD damage in some circumstances regardless of best efforts from the maker.
Your expectation based on "expensive custom" is just hilarious since high price has nothing to do with any extra ESD prevention.
RaptorJesusLOL t1_iwc6afz wrote
Good job, so how long have you worked for them?
LASERman71 t1_iwci8dx wrote
Good job, you disqualified yourself from further discussion by pulling most absurd calling card.
RaptorJesusLOL t1_iwcj5ps wrote
So you’re defending the defective keyboard for free? Are you ok?
NovaForceElite t1_iwagd4k wrote
Yup that sounds like an ESD shock. Sorry to hear that. I'd at least try reaching out to the vendor if I was you.
aleksyandr OP t1_iwagsk7 wrote
Yeah, think I will, to see if they have any leftover PCBs I could purchase to replace. This is like getting a mark on your new shoes when you were a kid on the first day you wore them.
MechNoob251 t1_iwccmro wrote
at least it's not a scuff on the case though, essentially you just got the shoes dirty and you can just clean them but if it was a scuff you frayed the laces
aleksyandr OP t1_iwcetxq wrote
Yeah that’s true. Long as I don’t shock it again. So many others saying this is still a problem with this new version of the board makes me worry that even if I replace the PCB it will happen again.
Pinkisacoloryes t1_iwdmjzs wrote
Back in the day, KBD75 from kbdfans had an issue with ESD. Luckily mine would just shut off and would work if I plugged it back in. What I did eventually was take all the mouting screws off and isolate the PCB from the case with electrical tape. When its closed and sandwiched in, it doesn't really need the mounting screws at all.
Now they coat their PCBs in some sort of blackness to prevent this.
so what I'm saying is, maybe if you get a new pcb from them, maybe try isolating the pcb from all metal contact. Hopefully they fix their design. They obviously knew it was a thing if they included the ESD protection as stock.
aleksyandr OP t1_iweoj97 wrote
Thanks for the tip. I will try that if I get another PCB.
sunfaller t1_iwalnnl wrote
how is ESD normally triggered? I always just touch my keyboard without thinking about this risk.
mynameisWei t1_iwaosox wrote
Usually by like rubbing your hand against fabric or something along the lines of that
Minh_Katze t1_iwbhr8i wrote
Doesn't it have to be a direct contact with the PCB for that to happen? I always rub my hand on my sweater or a piece of cleaning cloth laying on my table and touch the keyboard after but nothing abnormal ever happened.
[deleted] t1_iwd7790 wrote
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NotSoFull-Info69 t1_iwf033e wrote
Direct contact? Yes for plastic cases and such
For metal cases? Easily sparks can jump from case to PCB or even for metal plates sparks can jump right to the PCB
ZulkarnaenRafif t1_iwguyfc wrote
Nope, in this case, aluminum (it's metal) case boards have a risk for ESD.
In my case, I'll feel buzzy when I'm touching my Vega when I'm not grounded. Makes me think that the board was "susceptible" to ESD. Even though it never broken once on me.
More metal, more risk to conduct static discharge. Even then, I don't think it's accurate to just say "swap to polycarbonate or plastic case" to simply alleviate the issue.
Then again, I am no electrical engineer. Probably helps a little that I have little to no carpet flooring at my current residence plus the wood flooring probably helped.
Nyohn t1_iwcselj wrote
I've always been curious about this. I get static shocks from doorhandles and my cardoors all the time, but have never ever gotten a shock from any of my keyboards. Maybe I've been lucky
xdaysee t1_iwen2sc wrote
You can get esd mats but the bracket is annoying. Never used then after my 2nd year of work switching to pure software.
RaptorJesusLOL t1_iwbsw6m wrote
Probably because it shouldn’t be a risk on a reasonably well built consumer electronic.
sunfaller t1_iwcl8rb wrote
So this space65 is an expensive keyboard with cheap pcb or something?
RaptorJesusLOL t1_iwcmyfl wrote
Not just cheap, but missing basic ESD protection components. It’s a PCB built by someone who knows nothing about electronics, sold as a high-end electronic.
Centurion832 t1_iwc5831 wrote
Some part of the PCB/electronics is touching the case and then the static discharge from wearing socks on carpet or whatever discharges when you touch the case.
Pinkisacoloryes t1_iwdmxso wrote
I've had ESD trigged by my dog rubbing against my leg. Happens more often in a dry environment. Some people say to use humidifiers to stop it.
NovaForceElite t1_iwi34cf wrote
Wearing socks on carpet is usually what builds up the biggest charge for me, but you can get static electricity build up from pretty much every daily activity. Then it's just touching something or arcing with something that is conductive.
Relevant_Desk_6891 t1_iwdvxbh wrote
Sounds like pretty awful engineering.
v81 t1_iwewjju wrote
It's the ground of the PCB tied to the external metal where you zapped?
If it did whilst closed up it sounds like possibly poor design.
MetalHivemind t1_iwavk0x wrote
Pretty sure this board has some kind of ESD protection built in, it uses an ARM processor.
Did you use the very bottom thin insulation sheet? How quality is that cable you are using? The cable could possibly be the cause, if it's not grounded properly.
You could try reflashing the firmware (White caps LED: VIA version, VIAL Version, Red caps LED: VIA Version, VIAL Version) too, if the board is responding at all (which it seems it very well may be), this could recover it.
However, even with the money I spent on this board and others, I always buy at least 1 spare PCB.
retro3dfx t1_iwbw6nj wrote
There's numerous people reporting the same problem. Just by having an ARM CPU doesn't make it immune. You still have to provide ESD and surge protection circuitry on all data, power and ground nets of the PCB. It sounds like it was either designed incorrectly, or skipped all together.
MetalHivemind t1_iwc79ya wrote
Afaik, it was designed with it. There's MANY others that apparently don't have this issue, like myself. I have 2 PCBs from them. It's cold af where I am right now. Dry air, carpeted room. ESD heaven. No issues so far. I'm not saying ESD didn't kill theirs, but there's no widespread issue. Defective parts happen.
LASERman71 t1_iwc1a0c wrote
There's numerous people reporting the same problem with pretty much any other board...
While all your "keeb build stream gurus" still showing you to handle PCB's w/o any precautions... but of course whole community jumps onto maker...
RaptorJesusLOL t1_iwc6tlt wrote
Lol, no there aren’t. This is not normal. Nor is your white knighting a company making expensive defective keyboards.
LASERman71 t1_iwca6xx wrote
They are - do some search .
Never said this is normal. Those incidents are surely not normal occurrence, but Jumping to conclusion without professional investigation just proves your ignorance. No pro will make such conclusion just because "numerous people" managed to damage their boards.
And this has nothing to do with the maker - the typical childish mantra of accusing me to somehow covering for the company just disqualifies you from further conversation.
RaptorJesusLOL t1_iwcf4pm wrote
Paragraph after paragraph of you defending a keyboard maker’s products dying from ESD by touching the keycaps is hilarious, please keep going!
retro3dfx t1_iwcgzhd wrote
Take a picture of the ESD protection ICs on the data lines going from the switch rows and columns to the MCU.
LASERman71 t1_iwchq1q wrote
I think you put your comment in wrong thread.
retro3dfx t1_iwcrca2 wrote
Nope, it's the correct one. It was rhetorical and you totally didn't get it. ;)
LASERman71 t1_iwcs7vw wrote
Because it makes no sense not relevance whatsoever.
aleksyandr OP t1_iwcdj5t wrote
Thanks for the info and I will try that. I did use all the sheets and foam. The cable is an Anker cable.
MetalHivemind t1_iwe8u9f wrote
Let me know if it works to resolve the issue or not. Based on your other comment, it sounds more like the firmware on it became corrupted instead of killing the board. Good chance a reflash can resolve at least the keys not working.
aleksyandr OP t1_iwxvsz0 wrote
Just to follow up, I did reflash the board but didn't fix the problem. I e-mailed Graystudio and they are supposed to be sending me a new PCB.
MetalHivemind t1_iwxwcvw wrote
That sucks, hopefully the new PCB works out!
Hellenic94 t1_iwbjueu wrote
R2 has the exact same issue. My side leds have fried multiple times so now I dont even bother replacing them. Its a design flaw, no other board behaves like this and I have like 10 others.
aleksyandr OP t1_iwcchuk wrote
Yeah I’d heard that with their previous boards but was hoping they’d fixed it. Guess not. :(
LASERman71 t1_iwc0bfm wrote
You are most likely describing different issue.
Hellenic94 t1_iwc36ov wrote
Not really, because when I static shock my space65 it also makes a disconnect/reconnect noise. Esd must be working well enough not to fry the pcb but the leds always go out and need replacement. I wouldnt be surprised if my pcb dies on me.
LASERman71 t1_iwc5m6v wrote
Because you have ONE similar aspect with yours you think you can decide this is exactly the same scenario? Wrong!
You can find (in this subreddit) multiple examples of various incidents with totally different board / maker and the same "disconnect/reconnect noise".
It does NOT make it "exact same issue".
Hellenic94 t1_iwc6pfq wrote
Ofcourse I can, iv seen MANY space65 boards have static shock and esd issues including my own. ESD works until it doesnt and in OPs case ESD failed to prevent damage. Go on their discord server and simply search static shock theres someone asking for help bi-weekly. I havent faced any issues with Geon, Gok, Bitmap, Aeboards, Jackystudios, Owlabs, Smith n Rune pcbs and im active in those servers. Does static shock affect anything electronic on this earth? Absolutely.
Esd is a weak point for space65.
LASERman71 t1_iwc8zpr wrote
>ESD works until it doesnt
This applies to... every single electronic device on the planet :)
And I read about ESD damage on pretty much all Discord keeb channels...
I would rather blame "keeb build stream gurus" for showing you to handle PCBs w/o any ESD precautions.... consequences do not have to show up immediately. 3 decades of electronics repairs would teach you that.
Of course I will not dismiss the possibility that this line of boards may be more venerable, but this requires professional examination not just your impressions.
Hellenic94 t1_iwcb9kc wrote
You dont need professional examination or 3 decades of electronics repairs to see if one board has more esd/static shock issues than another. Like I said, owners of space65 are more vocal about these problems than any other channel iv been in and its not by chance.
LASERman71 t1_iwchaqq wrote
>You dont need professional examination... to see if one board has more esd/static shock issues
You still don't see the difference between number of occurrences and the actual cause of them.
>owners of space65 are more vocal about these problems...
Obviously more people will whine about Space65 going wrong than... Razor - here lies your unprofessional perception of "more"
Like I said - this is not to dismiss the possibility this PCB is more vulnerable but this not mean it is flawed by wrong design.
My final argument is that 99% of you handle PCBs without any ESD precautions potentially compromising ESD protection and the consequences may not be immediate.
In professional approach this alone disqualifies any afterward claim against the product / maker.
Hellenic94 t1_iwcicau wrote
You can argue all you want. If product A has more complaints about X than product B has about X then product A has a bigger X problem. People will always leave reviews or comments when they are facing issues with a purchase. They arent on the floor rubbing themselves on a carpet while building a board man. Why would people whine less for Razor though? How many times do you go on on Amazon and compare 2 items only to choose the one with the least amount of reported problems, even though both seem to have it?
LASERman71 t1_iwcnu69 wrote
>They arent on the floor rubbing themselves on a carpet while building a board man.
They not assembling them correctly either. Please educate yourself with any basic electronic assembly good practice guidelines and it will surely include strong wording about ESD precautions way above not rubbing on the carpet.
The rest are questionably acquired statistics.
Hellenic94 t1_iwco2fe wrote
Lol ok mate sure whatever you say!
RaptorJesusLOL t1_iwc6nt7 wrote
I hope they see this and give you a free defective keyboard bro
shugix t1_iwb519w wrote
There are replacement pcbs on taobao if you’re not able to buy one from them. You’ll need a forwarder to get it.
eklypsa t1_iwbsm6z wrote
I'm not OP but this was a really helpful comment as I was beating myself up about not having gotten a spare pcb for myself during the GB. thanks!!
xZoraia t1_iwc6isi wrote
Not necessarily for just space boards, but is getting a spare pcb with group buys generally recommended? I might be participating in my first soon so I want to know if there's any recommendations for approaching group buys
aneasyusername t1_iwc9ecf wrote
It’s not necessarily recommended, but it’s not a bad idea. Like anything else, over time it could start developing issues that aren’t easily remedied so having a spare PCB would be nice in those situations. Especially if it’s a keyboard that doesn’t use readily available PCBs.
aleksyandr OP t1_iwcbf0s wrote
I’d never bought a spare before but now I see the wisdom in it!
aleksyandr OP t1_iwcbzdo wrote
Oh that’s great, thanks. Don’t have a forwarder and can’t read their site so will have to dig into this more.
Beezleybuzz t1_iwae1zi wrote
NOOOO!!! Did you accidentally ground out against the case or something?
aleksyandr OP t1_iwaf7o5 wrote
Yeap. :( Just sat down and touched the side of the keyboard and zap.
Beezleybuzz t1_iwagzbv wrote
Have you tried to see if they will cover it under warranty? Who did you purchase from? This is such a well regarded board, it's shocking! *pun intended
aleksyandr OP t1_iwai18c wrote
I don’t know if it would be covered. I did email them to see if they have anymore PCBs to purchase. Otherwise I’ll have to check mechmarket. Or just sell it and get out of this crazy hobby.
LASERman71 t1_iwb0spn wrote
Instead of just asking to buy PCB you should explain the situation and see what they propose.
Beezleybuzz t1_iwakg08 wrote
Awwwww man. Don't let it discourage you too much. If anything just use it as some great learning :
- Depending on the outcome with warranty and/or replacement parts you'll learn a lot about that company's ethics, customer care, etc.
- Metal cases have some risk of ESD
RaptorJesusLOL t1_iwbt5tg wrote
No they don’t. This is entirely a manufacturing problem.
Cloverfrost_ t1_iwauc75 wrote
This may be an ignorant question, but do any custom keyboards come with a warranty? I would've thought that would only be applicable with large manufacturers. Local consumer protection law would still apply of course.
Beezleybuzz t1_iwavdg5 wrote
Yes many do come with warranty to basic components (at least). I think the GMMK Pro has a 2 year warranty?
helmsmagus t1_iway2ct wrote
gmmk pro is a large manufacturer. It's not "custom" per se.
ZulkarnaenRafif t1_iwgtpxd wrote
The "warranty" is unwritten on the site.
So, the best thing that the OP could do would be to shoot out an e-mail on how their board died from ESD. Probably they can consider sending a PCB or something.
[deleted] t1_iwb3fax wrote
[removed]
retro3dfx t1_iwbv3ev wrote
sneekypoo t1_iwazcqh wrote
Didn’t R2 have the same issue? I’m surprised they haven’t addressed it for R3.
aleksyandr OP t1_iwcbc2u wrote
Yes I remember reading about that with one of the previous versions but thought it was fixed.
Odd-Snow8441 t1_iwbo3m7 wrote
Yeah, apparently this ESD issue has been recurring with the space boards. I found out months ago only by visiting their discord server and seeing people's similar experiences when I used to want one.
rcr432p t1_iwahrll wrote
I'm having this same shocking experience as we speak. Is there something to do to fix it?
aleksyandr OP t1_iwahv63 wrote
As far as I know only option is to replace PCB.
rcr432p t1_iwaivay wrote
Sorry, what I meant to say is that the shocking part happened to me, but didn't kill my PCB. Any precautions I can take to avoid this outcome?
cadenya_ t1_iwajugh wrote
You can put a layer of something underneath on the bottom case under the pcb to stop the pcb from touching the metal
LASERman71 t1_iwb11bq wrote
This is pretty irrelevant to this topic. You are talking about preventing unintentional shorting of the PCB in badly designed board - nothing to do with ESD risk.
cadenya_ t1_iwc37qe wrote
….How else do you think they shocked the pcb in the first place? They touched the metal case, which discharged to the pcb. The only way that could have happened was the pcb was touching the case.
LASERman71 t1_iwc730v wrote
Sorry dude, I have no time to teach you basics of electronics but:
Correctly designed keyboard (and frankly any other device in metal case) will have it's PCB ground line firmly connected to the case for multiple reasons (ESD included).
Of course some customs have a flaw when other contacts of the PCB may touch the case and this needs to be prevented but not because of ESD risk but simply just to avoid shorting circuits.
ZulkarnaenRafif t1_iwgtxl5 wrote
... so... basically what the person above said is one of the many to discharge the electricity first?
LASERman71 t1_iwgvunq wrote
I'm not sure what you are trying to say and who you mean by "person above" but if you wish to take extra precautions just touch PC case (assuming it is properly grounded) or elsewhere.
aleksyandr OP t1_iwak4st wrote
Oh, got it. I know that a humidifier inside can help reduce static charge build up. I don't know if some keyboards are more prone to it than others, or if there is something you could do inside to help protect it. I know some PCBs including the one for the Space65 are supposed to have ESD protection. I was using a V2 Odin prior to this one and never had the shock problem.
QWERKey-UK t1_iwape43 wrote
You can touch a heating radiator or water pipe to discharge yourself before you sit at the desk.
sld87 t1_iwb5jeo wrote
Have you tried reflashing the pcb in case your firmware was corrupted?
aleksyandr OP t1_iwcb9gz wrote
No, didn’t think to do that, but not sure how with this board.
carvellwakeman t1_iwdhqhb wrote
I saw some talk on the discord that a major ESD will probably kill the LEDs but the rest of the board should come back by flashing firmware again.
What you can do is download qmk toolbox, and grab the binaries/hex files from the graystudio space65 r3 discord channel. They have instructions there for flashing. If you've never done this before look it up on youtube or feel free to DM me and I'll give you a hand.
https://discord.com/channels/503768726332506133/925889387236065330/1039349180621140070
aleksyandr OP t1_iwf5wdt wrote
Thanks for the link and direction. I was able to flash the firmware but unfortunately it did not work to fix the LEDs or the column that is out. :(
carvellwakeman t1_iwffivz wrote
Oof, sorry to hear that. I hope they'll send you another board. Wish they'd keep a store open and put their stuff up for sale instead of group buys
meatydp t1_iwbv59p wrote
Sorry for your loss OP but it's incredibly funny that a $500 keyboard has problems that even $30 keyboards off Amazon don't have.
aleksyandr OP t1_iwc8vsf wrote
Yeah, makes me question why I’m spending the money. Need to find a new hobby.
MetalHivemind t1_iwfr8v8 wrote
Okay, so I did a bit of research and this keeb does indeed have ESD protection.
Here is a shot of the PCb where the protection IC is located: https://i.ibb.co/7KQQ7gZ/IMG-5526.jpg
In that shot, you can see the JST connector and to it's right, a small IC labeled UL26. That IC is the ESD protection. Here is it's datasheet: https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/usblc6-2.pdf
Here is a shot of the daughterboard: https://i.ibb.co/2vnQqjJ/IMG-5516.jpg
As you can see, there is no UL26 located on the daughterboard. There is a part labeled A7 that appears to be grounded (?) to the case via the db's screwhole. I also speculate that the USB hole in the case is too tight and perhaps the USB connector is hitting the case and that's how the ESD is making it through. The main PCB should be well isolated with the gaskets in use as well as the thin isolation sheet in the case.
Perhaps the fault is with the data lines? Doesn't seem to be much if any protection on those lines and maybe that's how ESD is affecting these boards... but I honestly don't know enough about this and I am just hoping that what I provided can offer some insight into the situation.
Enginseer68 t1_iwbkek8 wrote
Sorry to hear that man!
From what I read this is an issue from R2, and continues to be here in R3, really RIDICULOUS for a board of this price to be this bad
You could probably sell the case and take the loss this time, then buy something else
aleksyandr OP t1_iwcedvo wrote
Yeah I’ve been thinking of doing exactly that. Just kills me cause I love the board otherwise. Ugh.
Hiiro_XoXo t1_iwbp8vw wrote
Does this apply to other graystudio keyboards?
Sliced_Orange1 t1_iwcpxzr wrote
ESD concerns apply to any/all products with a PCB. Consoles, computers, keyboards, etc.
Hiiro_XoXo t1_iwcun53 wrote
Yeah. I understand that. But does graystudios(company of space65) other keyboards pcbs have this issue. Etc space80.
In other words, should one only be concerned with the space65 or other boards under their name
ZulkarnaenRafif t1_iwguchx wrote
Vega from ai03 for example... Kinda shocks all the time (???) but never died at all. Well, not a zap, more like a buzzing when I touch the case.
Also Kei (Monokei), Noah (Matrix Lab), Neo87 (CherryB Studio), and U80-B (Rama). They all metal but it's very rare to see someone complaining of their PCB dying. Either it's rare or just "untold."
VAWLTGHOST t1_iwaghnp wrote
A moment of silence 🫡
Thowninja t1_iwarm0x wrote
Did you put the sheet under your pcb on the middle case layer? That should prevent esd from pcb hitting the case. The pcb also has esd protection so idk how you fried her :( must’ve been a serious shock
LASERman71 t1_iwb1838 wrote
Again, isolating the PCB from case is different subject and in regards to ESD PCB's ground line actually needs to be connected firmly to case.
aleksyandr OP t1_iwceg2q wrote
Yes I did use all the layers.
Tone-Has-Changed t1_iwas9ia wrote
I have the Space 65 CV since GB. No side LED but damn i have messed around with that pcb with soldering and resoldering etc no issues.
Crazy bad luck
aleksyandr OP t1_iwce4sw wrote
Yeah I’m hoping it was just bad luck because I love the board and hope I can fix it or get a new PCB (hopefully without this issue).
Coltralord t1_iwb09nh wrote
Same thing just happened to me twice on my frog tkl. Fried 2 PCBs in 3 weeks, I don't really know what to do at this point
Enginseer68 t1_iwbk6sd wrote
Well, buy another keyboard
This is a new thing to me too cause I have been buying custom keyboards for 8+ years and never been zapped or had a PCB fried
dblmca t1_iwb0plm wrote
Swap out the MCU. If you don't have the tools ask around for a local hacker space.
What part of the world are you in?
SXLightning t1_iwbfikc wrote
I always here these stories but I have never had a static shock in years. I wonder what causes people to have static, I wonder if it’s the material clothe you wear.
It’s literally been a decade since I has static shock.
HopefulEuclid t1_iwbix7z wrote
It depends on tons of factors. Rubbing fabric against fabric or plastic is a common one at home, but if you live in a humid climate it's basically a non-issue (data centers maintain a specific humidity for this exact reason). If only part of your floor is carpeted and you walk barefoot you'll also naturally discharge any static electricity, or if you regularly touch large conductors (large metal parts of furniture, faucets).
SXLightning t1_iwbjdp8 wrote
I live in the UK so I guess I do have high humidity? We are always carpeted and barefoot, I guess the humidity just keeps the static away. I am 82% humidity today I guess that is pretty high
HopefulEuclid t1_iwbl1uo wrote
You're basically safe at 40%+
sesame_dukes0j t1_iwf265f wrote
> I am 82% humidity today I guess that is pretty high
Yeah - it's mostly a problem under 40% humidity
Anything over 60% and the air itself becomes quite conductive — enough to release any charge that builds up just by having your skin touch the air. Nearly impossible to generate an ESD over 60%.
camilatricolor t1_iwcnzbn wrote
Scary. I just receive mine but I have not build it yet. U bought an extra PCB just in case, however I read there's EDD protection built in. Reach to Grey Studios for support
EridemicLHS t1_iwdeij0 wrote
It's amazing over the history of the hobby, how many high-end boards have poor ESD survivability and you have vendors like KBDFANs which IMO have really robust anti-ESD designs. I remember the Rama M65-A, holy smokes, that board was just instant fried and it was a $500 board with no after-market PCBs.
summersea__ t1_iweoxup wrote
im curious where the pcb is in direct contact with the case. maybe you’re bottoming out too much with sock gaskets
aleksyandr OP t1_iwet250 wrote
Yes, I'm going to be examining closely when I take it apart.
rooratty t1_iwao5ij wrote
Did you use any of the case foam?
aleksyandr OP t1_iwaodea wrote
Yes, I used all of it during assembly.
Couple_Lonely t1_iwausqk wrote
What deskmat is that ?
aleksyandr OP t1_iwceibz wrote
It’s the Novelkeys collab with Random Frank P.
Couple_Lonely t1_iwcekjn wrote
Cool
RyanLM4 t1_iwbsv7n wrote
What mousepad do you have?
aleksyandr OP t1_iwcen9k wrote
It’s the Novelkeys collab with Random Frank P.
RyanLM4 t1_iwcnf9v wrote
Thanks
ekristoffe t1_ix6ggv1 wrote
That’s weird… normally in case of a metal frame keyboard I would assume the metal frame to be grounded on the USB shield… Also normally most chip are esd safe nowadays…
deadlock0345 t1_iwapnc8 wrote
i would reccomend you use a humidifier or use a fabric spray and dillute it a bunch with water, and spray that onto your carpet to help prevent so much charge building up for the future, but most keyboards do have certain types os essential ESD protection, but your charge must have been a big one for that to not have prevented it maybe
aleksyandr OP t1_iwapzik wrote
Yeah, I don’t know why it was so sensitive. I wonder if I made a mistake during assembly.
deadlock0345 t1_iwaq1vs wrote
yeah im not sure thats super weird because isnt it isolation gasket moutn also? is the usb port touching the case or something maybe?
aleksyandr OP t1_iwaqogb wrote
The port has a little opening where it exits and probably does have a connection to the case. But otherwise as you said it is isolated from the case.
Outtatim86 t1_iwc9nnn wrote
Always always always order a spare PCB. It’s sad that the stock pcb doesn’t have ESD protection, tho.
aleksyandr OP t1_iwcf19p wrote
Yep learned my lesson.
LASERman71 t1_iwcq5hk wrote
>...the stock pcb doesn’t have ESD protection
According to the GB page it does have it on both boards.
AuthorLumpy t1_iwetyh7 wrote
What is ESD and should I be cautious for my keyboard as well ??
aleksyandr OP t1_iwexq56 wrote
Means electrostatic discharge. So when static electricity builds up on you and you get a shock when you touch the door handle or a light switch. I've gotten zapped when touching a keyboard in the past but never had this happen where it was damaged.
LASERman71 t1_iwcn0pp wrote
NO single maker in the word of electronics can prevent you from zapping the PCB.
Also because all your "keeb build stream gurus" still showing you to handle PCBs without ANY ESD precautions, you think this is the correct way to assembly electronics.
The bad consequences do not necessarily exhibit themself immediately giving you impresion about product quality and never your own wrongdoing during assembly or re-build.
In one hand this alone should void any warranty claim afterwards (in my opinion) but...
In other hand this should be on to makers/vendors to:
- Issue clear ESD precaution disclaimer with any PCB.
- Request the content creators promoting those boards to practice and educate ESD precautions to the community.
(there is clearly a commercial opportunity to create trend of fancy coiled ESD cables with aviators and colour matched wrist straps ;-)
The fact that most of boards do not die is not a proof they are any more resilient to ESD.
This is only intended to educate yourself from someone who over several decades professionally dealt with hundreds if not thousands of various electronic products that have been damaged by ESD.
The conclusion I have from this experience is that no consumer device is immune from ESD, there is no 100% protection against it, and you can only improve your chances by observing precautions.
In case of the PCB failure you should talk with your vendor before launching negative campaign online - that is just my personal approach I find to be most sensible (and a reason for my unpopular comments against instant lynching of the maker).
aleksyandr OP t1_iwcw6j8 wrote
I didn’t know I was “launching a negative campaign” by posting about my problem here. I thought it was just my bad luck. But others have apparently had the same problem with this board. I’d say that’s a relevant discussion to have in a mechanical keyboard community.
LASERman71 t1_iwcx3r9 wrote
I didn't meant you but those instantly calling the maker "criminal" for something that wasn't true. Maybe this last sentence wasn't best worded.
I agree this is relevant discussion, this is why I'm in it.
yfa17 t1_iwasg54 wrote
Did you use the ESD protective film that they specifically included to prevent this?
My R3 hasn't had any issues so far but that's super unlucky dude