Submitted by pedrorq t3_z607e7 in MechanicalKeyboards
Comments
stylesuxx t1_ixz1fm2 wrote
I took my switch tester to a meetup with friends a couple days ago, because one of them wanted to borrow it. Of course everyone started to play around with it and everyone was able to feel differences. I just think it is a matter of sample size. If you happen to have two very similar switches that are potentially over-lubed, then yeah, it will be hard to notice a difference.
SmallPotatoK t1_ixzi0ya wrote
Agreed, sample size defines a lot and of course similar switches are harder to tell apart, this goes to any similar things not just switch. I think another aspect that differs hobbyists and none hobbyists though, is the ability to identify the difference on top of noticing the difference, and further more know how to modify a certain part to maximize or minimize such difference. So like everyone could tell switch A is scratchier than switch B just from pressing it, but us would know that is material and lube related… or that they would think switch A make a more pleasant sound than switch B, and us would know how to tune the sound from different case/plate/foam/pad/lube etc. Now that I said this, I feel like a hobby, any hobby, is truly an art of themselves… the more time we spend in it, the more time we see things other people don’t
stylesuxx t1_ixzigmp wrote
Good point regarding noticing vs. Identifying the difference. Did not think about it in this way.
OverratedOnion t1_iy0q6j8 wrote
This is fair enough. But one thing that many people forget about is the sound. I have Zealios v2 in one of my boards and they sound very harsh and high pitched (which I kinda like). Different linear switches would sound different to others which can’t really be stated in a switch tester.
SoMass t1_iy006bk wrote
I always remember the Bruce Lee quote going something along the lines “in the beginning a punch is a punch and a kick is a kick. Then you learn more and everything becomes unique and intricate. Then you learn enough and a kick is simply a kick and a punch is simply a punch.” Not exact but how my brain remembered it after all these years.
SmallPotatoK t1_iy1ogus wrote
That’s some wise words, I’m a Chinese myself, and we do have a 4-words idiom/phrase that refers exactly to this stage of mind, 返璞归真, which literally translated into return to the unpolished/unaltered nature and get back to the “true self”
ravstar52 t1_iy35o5a wrote
SoMass t1_iy3oert wrote
Exactly that lol.
kittysneeze88 t1_iy1s8jm wrote
I’ve found a compromise with my wallet—spring swapping. I’ve found swapping to a 2-stage or long spring alters linear switches to a much more noticeable degree, and only at a fraction of the cost of trying different linear switches.
That said, I still own far too many linears, so it appears like my wallet isn’t really winning.
SmallPotatoK t1_iy2cmrg wrote
Sounds like a good idea to try out, thanks for the information!
Sinsanatis t1_iy2d5v6 wrote
Kinda similar to the audio space. U cant quite tell between reaaaaally good audio, good audio, decent audio, and ok audio until u properly experience all of them for a good amount of time. But also like audio, u can tell when its absolute shit
Fair-Bunch4827 t1_iy2ok9k wrote
I was perfectly fine with my 10USD office tier headsets before my friend introduced me to audiophile stuff. I can't go back anymore.
But i deliberately stopped trying better ones at 40-50 USD. I could easily see myself spending exponentially more if i try to find the difference.
Ps: I hate linear switches. I'd rather have a cheapo membrane than those. Like whats the point
Sinsanatis t1_iy3a8ag wrote
Right now im running a budget planar magnetic. The hifiman he x4? Idk which ever is the newer one thats on drop. Running it on the fulla schiit 3 dac/amp. Pretty nice soundstage and clear audio. Just the tiniest bit high on the treble but not too bad. Ppl say its pretty good as entry level planar magnetics. I wouldnt quite know but they sound good to me.
If money wasnt an issue i would want a keyboard with each switch type. But the linear would mainly be used for gaming. My goto would probably be tactiles, but i still would like clickies for the occasional nice clicky typing. Only felt box whites for click bars but it was nice. But now since im getting the wooting 60he that would fill the linear gaming oriented kb slot full force, so i wouldnt build a custom with linears
Sacklecakes t1_iy4km8y wrote
Agreed, the 60HE is wonderful for gaming but I prefer my tactile Topre board for everything else.
Sinsanatis t1_iy50y48 wrote
Mines coming jan 20 or so, but maybe later as i want to delay it if possible to get the white keycaps so i cant speak on it yet. But i can tell its gona be pretty much the endgame gaming kb for a good while. Maybe i might end up modding it idk but as long as it lasts, ima be using it
PretentiousPuck t1_iy1k6tz wrote
I swear on Gawd one day I'll have a retro style board with Box Jades and a Solenoid.
Eicr-5 t1_iy6b7u7 wrote
So, my move wasn't the most *economical*, but I swapped my box jades for zeal clickiez. And the clickiez are so substantially better.
unit187 t1_ixzhsi3 wrote
For funsies, I did a blind test with multiple linear switches I own. It is pretty easy to spot the difference, but unless you are very familiar with every one of them, it is really hard to name those switches. You just know they are different, but which switch is which - who knows /shrug
studiofoxx t1_iy1vuoz wrote
Yes but I’m sure you just refined your tastes from experimenting and finally keeping what you prefer. I have such vastly different switches I know the difference in all of them. I also have no taste.
FreeFeez t1_iy2lp6p wrote
All same weight?
C9_Starkiller t1_iy0fkmr wrote
did i miss the part of this meme where OP said this is deathly serious, he is the only arbiter of correctness, and anyone who disagrees should be executed? responses are wild lmao. like c'mon just chuckle and scroll by...
pedrorq OP t1_iy0h3pb wrote
Thank you :D I think people chuckle and scrolly by when it's not "their" switch ;)
stylesuxx t1_ixyrw6u wrote
I wonder which switches you compared to come to this conclusion?
I am no fan of linear switches myself, but most of them are pretty distinct in feel, sound or both. I mean unless you fill them up with lube to the brim...
sprayoo t1_ixz58lr wrote
Sound I can agree with, but with feel it's either they are long pile or they aren't. That's not saying it's bad BTW. What makes linear so attractive is their simplicity
the_ebastler t1_ixznw92 wrote
Bottom out can feel totally different, even with the same stem and just a different bottom housing.
Parvaty t1_ixzo5ld wrote
Well yeah since the spring makes a large difference in bottom out feel.
the_ebastler t1_ixzoo7f wrote
Bottom housing material does, too
Imitation_crab_irl t1_ixzm9db wrote
Its hilarious how many commenters you’ve angered
pedrorq OP t1_ixzo0yk wrote
Probably the same people who thought my clicky meme was hilarious!
And to think I love linears and yes can tell the difference between them 😁
Fureal t1_ixzwsxu wrote
Damn bro this meme is so funny I literally spilled my coffee onto my linears and now I wanna start a GB for Coffee Spill Linear Switches manufactured by JWK. Thanks for the inspo you're the bomb man!
pedrorq OP t1_ixzzj86 wrote
😂
[Bulk] linear switch coffee spit lubing - let's go straight to r/mechmarket ! 😁
tertius_decimus t1_iy2qh1c wrote
You didn't spill, you coffee lubed them!
ProestPro t1_ixyt3ob wrote
Dam, my jwk blacks totally have as much thock as my oil kings and ink blacks. /s
AustralianKeyboard t1_iy2uveu wrote
Im going to be doing my first custom keeb vv soon, looking at the jwick jwk blacks for the epomaker th80 kit, opinion on the switches? Cheers
mandaliet t1_ixzo4le wrote
This reminds me of those studies which show that self-claimed wine experts fail blind taste tests all the time.
[deleted] t1_iy3i6x3 wrote
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jojlo t1_iy0bzva wrote
And can any of them actually be silent!?!
Pleasant-Dependent63 t1_iy2a9ga wrote
Box navy's forever!
AdAdditional3378 t1_ixz1cta wrote
All linears are the same they’re rotting my brain peace I can’t attain cause are linears are the same
REBKeeb t1_iy18mwg wrote
so funny the heat this is making, could start too cook a steak if this keeps going on ahah
pedrorq OP t1_iy1bggm wrote
This is SIRIUS BUZINES ;)
MayAsWellStopLurking t1_iy06kfm wrote
Heh.
Kikkou123 t1_iy0jdp7 wrote
Try alps
TheInverseKey t1_iy0uk42 wrote
They are not linear but tactile.
Kikkou123 t1_iy17j0m wrote
Huh? There are linear, tactile, and clicky alps. Each of which are fantastic. Better yet, you can swap each leaf out without desoldering, enabling you to change your switch type in an hour just with a toothpick and a keycap puller.
maxgpdx t1_iy1jl1n wrote
They mean that alps linears have a small tactile bump due to the switchplate design. How noticeable it is varies from batch to batch in my experience.
Kikkou123 t1_iy28t2k wrote
That bump is basically nonexistent. You can feel that same bump on many linear mx switches if you really feel for it. Even then, it gives a little bit of character as opposed to the incredibly basic feeling of mx linears, which was kind of my whole point of saying try alps in the first place.
fineiwilltakeit t1_iy2406h wrote
It took me a while to appreciate a good unlubed switch. Like box browns... I shouldn't have said that though.
pedrorq OP t1_iy2tp1v wrote
...ewwwwwwww
supyo t1_iy25th3 wrote
BUT WAIT THERES A PING
Dangthe t1_iy2z44t wrote
I have about 40 different switch sets and my favourite ones are unlubed. Seriously, lubing takes away so much character from a switch, this meme actually isn't that fictional imho.
paradoxally t1_iy3eaer wrote
This meme is only true if you've only tried one linear switch.
xAtlas5 t1_iy3sm1s wrote
I just get them because I like the colors ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
kneadedbwead t1_ixythfy wrote
man this guy has no clue...
bosuhr t1_ixzmlld wrote
Hey! You can feel the spring weight
M1ken1ke66 t1_iy1b86f wrote
Main differences that can definitely be felt by enthusiasts include sound, housing tolerances, smoothness, and weight, tho u can just spring swap ur fav spring into whatever linear sounds the best to you
Leopard854 t1_iy1cq71 wrote
It really do be like that, once you go past a certain threshold it’s just diminishing returns.
And the funny thing is, as the tolerances get tighter, more friction is introduced, so a relatively “scratchy” switch like Gateron Yellow can feel nicer to type on than some “high-end” switch that is polished out of the factory and hand lubed.
[deleted] t1_iy1jdhk wrote
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doozydud t1_iy22jwe wrote
I filled a keyboard with 4 different linear switches just for fun and I honestly cannot tell the difference between the space bar, alpha, or number keys
pedrorq OP t1_iy2tpqq wrote
Doing the Lord's work!
Jnstus t1_iy2a4l7 wrote
what’s the best lube for some hyperx reds?
ondrea_luciduma t1_iy2fp9j wrote
Which is exactly why I migrated to topre. You know it when you use it
Kronocide t1_iy2tjpp wrote
Can't even notice the difference between linear and tactile (Red and brown)
pedrorq OP t1_iy2tmap wrote
If you're telling about cherries, that's normal I think. Cherry browns are not very tactile and I think springs have same gf to cherry reds
AustralianKeyboard t1_iy2uqiz wrote
Man all these ppl talking abt switches sounding 1decibel louder and 0.37 grams lighter then each other… really hard to disagree with half of the opinions… they all make extremely fair points…
Round-Ad-6101 t1_iy31ygi wrote
That’s simply not true. Take POM durock linears, vints and oil kings for example. Lube them or not, they sound really different although all are linears. Also, try some different (quality) boards, that may help hearing difference :D
Zeioth t1_iy351ie wrote
I lubed my zealios (except the bump) and the change was positive. Not super dramatic, but possitive.
sad_asian_noodle t1_iy36bi7 wrote
Tactile gang!
Aaroneb t1_ixzpi4g wrote
I guess they do all feel pretty much the same but they do have very different sounds.
peanut_butter_lover4 t1_iy0hci0 wrote
Me: owns Cherry MX Reds, Akko Lavender Purples, and is awaiting a set of FLCMMK Ice Mint switches.
pedrorq OP t1_iy0htx8 wrote
I love linears and can recognize their differences, but that won't stop me making memes ;)
peanut_butter_lover4 t1_iy0jzjj wrote
Fair enough lol
A have a friend who gives me crap for preferring linears over tactile. They just feel better for FPS games.
HK_808 t1_iy0no9m wrote
The contact based mx style switches feel pretty simmilar to me apart from actuation force and whether they are lubed, but compared to different technologies like optoelectronic and hall effects there is definitely a difference also there is a difference with my green alps board.
meatydp t1_iy0ube4 wrote
I don't get the appeal of linears especially now that the Wooting 60HE exists.
pedrorq OP t1_iy0wrgy wrote
That's ok, I don't get the appeal of the wooting knowing typewriters exist
Fair-Bunch4827 t1_iy2owxa wrote
I don't get it either. Like whats the point? Having tried it I preferred e-waste tier membranes
Microdoted t1_iy138n3 wrote
cherry reds as smooth as (insert_popular_linear_name_here) confirmed.
/s
pedrorq OP t1_iy1512d wrote
.... Well played
Jnbrtz t1_iy15av3 wrote
Although I never tried other switches because im broke asf and don't see it necessary for me, I think I would have the same conclusion too and think the difference is the sound(not on cheap boards but on more expensive or 'complex' bodies like gaskets, foam, and etc,.)
the_ebastler t1_ixzoh4f wrote
If that's the case for you, you apparently lube a LOT. Good for you if that's the type of switch you enjoy, I personally can't stand the "buttery smooth" thick 205g0 layer feeling. It's a bit like 5 layers of foam in every board for me. Makes every board sound decent, but kills all individuality and blends everything into mediocracy.
With a thick layer of 205g0 most linears are indeed indistinguishable, but with a thin layer of 205 or a bit of 3204 many sound and feel very distinct. Hell, even a milky top and clear top gateron yellow with the same bottoms, springs and stems sounds and feels noticeably different.
QuillanFae t1_iy3ge55 wrote
Mediocracy. When no one notably fit to govern shall be allowed to do so.
claporga t1_iy0b6fo wrote
I accomplish minimal lubing by only applying a thin application to stems. No lube needed anywhere else. Springs need lubricant as well.
the_ebastler t1_iy0zk50 wrote
That's usually my approach too. Thin layer of 3204 on the stem (205 if it is a very scratchy switch), then baglubed springs, and assemble.
[deleted] t1_ixzcqz7 wrote
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sunfaller t1_ixzqfak wrote
I can never go back to basic gateron switches. I like north pole, epsilons, ktt strawberries now.
QWERKey-UK t1_ixyq1so wrote
Yeah sure... all linear switches are the same.... (roll eyes). LOL
stylesuxx t1_ixyrp5r wrote
Well, they are all linear...
QWERKey-UK t1_ixyswcq wrote
Yes.. I'll give you that :)
Temanyl t1_ixzb6q5 wrote
And they are all Switches...
ogiovannesouza t1_ixzid2r wrote
You can press all of them too
QWERKey-UK t1_ixziqhd wrote
But can you press them all at once? :)
ogiovannesouza t1_ixzlshk wrote
Flip the keyboard, and press the keyboard
QWERKey-UK t1_ixzlymq wrote
Arse! Never thought of that LOL
ProestPro t1_ixyt26k wrote
/s
re_error t1_iy1m9eq wrote
So how do they differ, aside from lube and spring wight?
QWERKey-UK t1_iy2kphu wrote
The materials dictate bottom out feel, as does stem length. Spring weight changes the feel, as does spring progressiveness. Stem design and material also affects how tight the stem is, hence stem wobble, and this has a noticeable affect on typing. Then there's the physical fit of the housing, some being tight, some not, which you can also feel. The housing itself an affect plate fitment which can be extremely important in a hot swap board.
To many people just think about sound, and it's silly, as switches are probably one of the least important parts of the board when it comes to sound, unless we are talking about clicky switches of course.
BadPWG t1_ixz0bvu wrote
If people can’t tell the differences then they have a bit of an issue with sensing reality and the world around them 😂
SmallPotatoK t1_ixyyvno wrote
To be fair, all switches are the same to non-mechanical users. It becomes 3 types of switches for beginner users (linear, tactile and clicky)… turns back to 2 for hobbyists (ok this is a joke :3). The more you dive in the hobby, the more diverse switches become, then there is franken switches and what not. Point is, it takes certain level of enthusiasm to differentiate them. With that being said, I’m a sole believer that all linear switches are the same, at least that’s what my wallet trying to tell me anyway