Me whenever I ask a question or post a non-meta keyboard in this subSubmitted by HydroCigna t3_z5mlmk in MechanicalKeyboards
QWERKey-UK t1_ixxvwdf wrote
Reply to comment by Soulcloset in Me whenever I ask a question or post a non-meta keyboard in this sub by HydroCigna
There's a daily questions thread just for beginners. Having one thread is much better if you think about it.
xNyxNox t1_ixxxag1 wrote
Sure, but people almost never actually answer questions there. Seriously, scroll through right now and look at almost half the questions sitting unanswered. Not that I am blaming the community, it's time consuming and frustrating to answer questions. Earlier this week, I spent over half an hour curating a list of options for somebody because they were asking about building a keyboard for $100 and the only comment was to buy holy pandas or something. After typing it all out and clicking post, the comment disappeared. I think it had to do with the links I attached even though I tried to remove anything that could be considered referral related. I literally just Googled the stuff, I'm not making any kickback on it.
Also, the fact that it resets kinda sucks. If you post a question at the wrong time, you may never get an answer because soon after you typed it, a new post was made.
QWERKey-UK t1_ixxyv93 wrote
>Sure, but people almost never actually answer questions there.
No more of less than they would in the main feed. It depends on the question. If it's a "what keyboard should I buy?" question, then no, of course not. It's a pointless question that has no real answer without a long conversation to establish what the user needs. That's time consuming. The OP should just do a bit or research to see what they like. If you suggest that though... apparently you are elitist. If it's actually a question that can be answered meaningfully, then they often get answered.
I often spend time in that thread and do what I can help people, especially newcomers, but seriously, most of the questions are like "what's the best switch?". I tend to ignore such questions, as there's no really useful answer to give, and explaining why is again time consuming.
I do what I can, like many do, but let's be honest, questions like that never really generate useful answers even if they are in the main feed. Usually, they get ignored there as well, or at worst, get hundreds of answers from people just recommending what they personally like, and that is just as useless for the OP.
>"After typing it all out and clicking post, the comment disappeared. I think it had to do with the links I attached"
There are many sites that linking to will get the post removed. Did you link to AliExpress? It's best not to link to such sites.
>Also, the fact that it resets kinda sucks.
Can you imagine the thread without it? Sure, it resets, but you can just ask again, and the point is, you can ask as many times as you like without cluttering up the main feed and annoying people with the same question. Let's be honest, beginners never actually do check to see if their question has been asked. They can't do, or they'd not just dive in with "Hi, I'm new.... what keyboard should I get?". If people think complaining about that is "elitist" then they need to have a good think about how that can be annoying in a sub with over a million people subcribed to it. Of anyone still thinks it's elitist after that, then tough. There has to be some moderation on these things in a subreddit of this size. It can't be a free-for-all where the feed gets filled with "how do I get thock" posts. Just you watch though... this post will get downvoted. You can't just barge in and blurt out the same question that every other person asks when they also just barge in and blurt it out without searching and then accuse anyone that complains as elitist, as THAT makes you look like an over-privileged brat who expects everyone to stop what they are doing to pander to your needs.
Give and take. Spend some time reading the sub, and the wiki, and take at least a few minutes to see if your questions have already been answered.
xNyxNox t1_ixxzxq9 wrote
I definitely appreciate you and the others who regularly answer questions there. I try when I can, but admittedly I'm not sure I have enough experience to answer a lot of questions people ask. All of my keyboards are around $100 of total parts each, so I know nothing about the higher end.
I think it would be helpful if people ask useless questions to politely inform them. That way, they don't get discouraged from lack of help and people don't have to see the same person come back and post the same question tomorrow.
Like when people ask what keyboard to buy, say:
"That's a really hard question to answer because there are so many options. You should decide what layout you want and a budget, then come back with that information to get some options."
Maybe a copy & paste so it's less painful to type out each time? I know it's not a perfect solution, but it feels really bad to scroll through and see so many unanswered comments.
Also, small sample size I know, but someone posted they didn't know which switch to buy on the same day I was typing out that big response to the other guy. I told him I needed more info and before I was even finished writing out the other post, he had more info for me and also asked me to share what I personally enjoyed. I don't think it's fair to say beginners won't come back to their post, although I know it does happen sometimes.
Some people definitely suck at answering questions, like the guy I referenced in my original post who answered someone asking how to make a $100 build with "I like holy pandas," but that doesn't mean we shouldn't give people an active place to ask questions. That being said, you're right, this is a huge subreddit and it would be really annoying for a million people to get pinged every time someone asked a question and it got some upvotes.
I don't know that there's anything wrong with a separate place to ask and answer questions, but having a daily threat that resets every day means that if someone has the same question that someone else had in the past, it can be really hard to find that answer even though it's a question that's already been asked and answered.
I like the idea someone else proposed of an alternative sub just for asking/answering questions, but obviously someone has to have the time to create and run that. I don't really have a good solution for this part of the problem, it just comes with having an open community I think.
Also, kind of a side discussion at this point, but I linked Amazon, Dangkeebs, and Akko's website. I'm assuming it was Amazon that got the post removed, but it's honestly not a bad place to buy ultra cheap keycaps imo.
QWERKey-UK t1_ixy24lq wrote
>I definitely appreciate you and the others who regularly answer questions there
That's good to hear.
​
>Like when people ask what keyboard to buy, say:
>
>"That's a really hard question to answer because there are so many options. You should decide what layout you want and a budget, then come back with that information to get some options."
Seriously... done that. You still get accused of being elitist. I get accused of it constantly. Kids just don't like it when you say things they don't want to hear, and I'm sorry, most of the salt comes from people who, if you read their posts, are obviously kids. This very paragraph will be seen as elitist as well now... by kids LOL. You can't fucking win. Kids are selfish. It's a fact. I have a kid... and I used to be a kid. It's just one of those facts that is unpleasant... when you are a kid. (shrug).
I just scroll through and look for things I just supply a definitive answer to. If many others did the same, then that thread would be as useful as the admins obviously thought it would (should) be. I'm not here to be anyone's friend, or mentor. I wish I had the time, but considering how busy I am, I'm absolutely amazed I find as much time as I do in here, so when after just disseminating common sense advice and genuine help, I get accused of this this (by people who never help anyone themselves), then those people can just take a running jump; Their tiny minds cannot comprehend how uninterested I am in their childish opinions. If they are too lazy to just spend some time researching at least whether their question has recently been asked, then they can just fuck right off. this has nothing to do with being a beginner in this hobby. It has nothing to do with keyboards... It's just lazy and annoying, and crap behaviour and poor etiquette... in ANY internet forum. Saying "but I'm only a beginner" is not an excuse. A beginner at what? The internet? This is not keyboard specific. It's just about being rude and being lazy.
​
>I like the idea someone else proposed of an alternative sub just for asking/answering questions,
The minute you do that, then everyone who feels even slightly aggrieved will want their own sub, and most of those people will part on bad terms because they thought they were badly done by in THIS sub. This is what happened with budgetkeebs, and now look at how they behave. Bad idea. There's a wealth of help available right here in this sub from people who have been in this game for a very long time. If you develop a breakaway sub just for beginners, only the beginners will use it. It would be like the blind leading the blind.. it would be a car crash. The thing is though, the people IN that sub probably wouldn't care.. or even know... so long as they get their answers... any answers... even bad ones.
Sometimes being pragmatic makes you sound harsh and cold, but if you dispassionately think about these issues, you'll see there's logic in there.
Release your inner Spock.
Kirball904 t1_ixz45ne wrote
Doesn’t matter what you do if you aren’t suggesting clones and cheap knock offs or you tell people anything they don’t want to hear you will be called elitist. It’s a hypocritical irony the calling of people elitists has become this whole other group of people that act elitist about being on the side of the average person.
QWERKey-UK t1_ixzc7mh wrote
Yep. Inverse elitism. Simple as that. The fact is, the existence of expensive group buy boards and keycaps doesn't affect anyone who has no intention of buying them. There will always be cheaper in stock items, no matter whether it is keycaps, or keyboards. There are plenty of in stock options for keycaps that are not clones, and the same can be said for keyboards. There's never been a better time to be in this hobby on a budget, but some people seem to think that if only they can get rid of group buys, they'll be able to get GMK caps for $50 with next day delivery, or a TGR board for $200 within weeks of ordering it. They don't understand how it all works. They just say " Why don't they just make them and sell them". If it was that simple, it would be happening already. They fail to realise that all these grail products are not mass manufactured, they are designed by members of this community who do not have the financial backing to just fund the mass manufacture of these things. They also fail to realise just how small these production runs are. Take keycaps for example. A successful group buy only sells around 2 to 3 thousand sets (including extras). That's not because anyone has chosen this as some kind of artificial limit... that's just the amount that was sold. The MOQ on GMK is 250 sets. GMK will make as many as you tell them to so long as you hit the MOQ. So those that realise this would be incredibly foolish to personally fund the production of more than this, even if they had the cash to do it.
xNyxNox t1_ixy2kal wrote
Well, I guess I can't really disagree with experience. I am thinking about things more theoretically, I'm not usually that active either in this community or on reddit, so it was mostly just ideas. It seems like you're someone who's pretty well versed in both.
I am interested though in your thoughts on budgetkeebs. I look a quick look over there (as I said earlier all my keyboards are cheap so I thought it'd be interesting) and I didn't see anything that looked strange. What's up with that community and now that I'm interested in it, is it something I should stay away from?
QWERKey-UK t1_ixy3mfg wrote
I'm just me. Diplomacy has never been one of my strengths LOL.
Re: the other sub. It's not their behaviour in their own sub that I refer to, but their behaviour in here. There was an issue when they set up the sub, when people from there used to brigade like fuck in here. They would pounce on any newcomer's thread and tell them they would not be welcome in here unless they had an expensive board, and then use the opportunity to tell them they'd be more welcome in their sub instead. If you read their rules, you will see that their attitude is in fact so anti-elitist, it's actually elitist. One of their rules is no group buys for instance, even though some of the best budget oriented keyboards of the past year have been group buys. Inverse snobbery, which is just as bad as what they accuse people in here of doing.
I'm not suggesting you should stay away from anything. There's definitely a remit to that sub though that is not necessarily just budget keyboards. It's also redundant; The vast majority of boards posted in THIS sub, are budget oriented boards.
Kirball904 t1_ixz4b1y wrote
That community is a haven for people that buy rip off counterfeit products. I personally think it’s bad for the hobby.
Kirball904 t1_ixz3gsf wrote
Not sure why you are being downvoted. This is a lot of the reason why people are dicks to people asking questions. 1 they aren’t posting in the right place and 2 it’s something they have seen 1000 times and are sick of answering.
QWERKey-UK t1_ixzecu5 wrote
I can see both sides of this. Those on the receiving end of people saying "Just search the answer, it's asked a million times already" just feel a little put out because it may not be that obvious to them that it's a question that is asked about ten times a day. The other side of that is the fact that if they just searched... which takes minutes, they would not have needed to ask. This is why I can't understand what the objection is to the daily thread is. It solves this issue mostly.
Kirball904 t1_ixzg5tu wrote
Yeah I always had teachers and professors that said you spend at minimum 10 minutes researching a question before you ask it publicly. If everyone lived by this there would be a lot less questions asked.
QWERKey-UK t1_ixzijc1 wrote
I worked for 13 years as a university lecturer, and I can't agree more. Furthermore, information that you attain by your own research is retained better and for longer. These are facts. Plus... learning is fun. When you grow up with facts being handed to you on a plate, it makes you far less able to solve your own problems and harms critical thinking skills. There's absolutely nothing wrong with asking questions, but you should spend some time trying to find the answers yourself before you just ask. Usually the best questions are the ones raised from your own research, as the more you learn, the more questions you may have, but they tend to be relevant questions that are also more useful to others who may be reading your posts.
Kirball904 t1_iy09ay9 wrote
The other big problem is 99% of the time it’s a subjective question.
QWERKey-UK t1_iy0cfn0 wrote
Such as "what is the best switch?" etc. No one can really answer that.
Kirball904 t1_iy260ra wrote
Yup, what should I build? What’s the best mod for xyz? What’s the best sounding switch? What plate is going to thock the most? These types of questions will drive most any reasonable person to be a jerk in response.
QWERKey-UK t1_iy2k6nz wrote
When I reply that switches (apart from changing to clickies) don't really add that much to a board's overall sound and it's more like subtle fine tuning, and you should choose a switch for it's feel, weight etc. and that plate, case and keycaps are more important, I get downvoted, so I don't bother replying to that one anymore.
Kirball904 t1_iy74lug wrote
I would disagree to some extent. But thanks mostly to YouTube everyone is obsessed with sound being the most important thing about their build. If a board sounds great but is shit to type on it’s still a shit board. What irks me is that so many designers make boards with shit sound profiles because they know they can just throw in a tape mod and some foam to make up for their shoddy work.
QWERKey-UK t1_iy7erxg wrote
They really don't make a massive difference to sound. Especially once lubed. The sound difference is subtle. So far as sound is concerned, switches are just fine tuning, but if you are choosing a switch based on how it sounds, then you are choosing incorrectly, because you are absolutely correct: A nice sounding board that feels bad... is bad.
GanyuFate t1_ixy6me4 wrote
No it isn’t.
I asked if the keychron q3 gateron beown at $162 was good during prime and if there are any other TKL boards I should consider in that price range.
My only requirement was around $160, hate blue switches, and TKL.
If that isn’t specific enough then idk what to say as most beginners have less knowledge than me
QWERKey-UK t1_ixy6zpl wrote
How does this relate to having one thread or not? Are you saying that the whole system is broken just because no one answered your question?
GanyuFate t1_ixy71qc wrote
If I made a thread I’d bet you just about anything reasonable I’d get 5-12 replies with strong opinions.
The thread is dead
QWERKey-UK t1_ixy7tuu wrote
Maybe, maybe not. The point is though, the daily questions thread serves a purpose. The main feed was becoming increasingly chaotic with repetitive questions, often the same questions by people who just didn't spend a few minutes seeing if the same question had already recently been asked (which it often was). That is a fact. Are you suggesting we should go back to that just so YOUR question gets answered? To hell with everyone else? It's all about you, right? How much knowledge you have, or have not is irrelevant.
It serves a purpose. Like most solutions to such problems, it's not perfect. Can you suggest an alternative that's not just going back to the cluster fuck that the main feed became after the "pandemic rush"? If you can, why not suggest another way of doing things? Your idea may be a better solution.
BTW... did you get your answer, and if so, how did you arrive at it?
GanyuFate t1_ixy7y8g wrote
I’m not a Reddit pro but if there’s a way to track how long a user has joined this subreddit to ask a question in general feed instead of only daily thread
QWERKey-UK t1_ixy8e6p wrote
I don't understand. It's not just about beginners. While most of the repetitive questions do come from beginners, they are not exclusive to beginners. There are also people who join and just lurk. There's no real way to differentiate in a way that would "filter" people in such a way, and to be honest, it would be discriminating to do so. Effectively, it would be saying, "You've been here a week, so you know nothing", and conversely, "You've been here for a year, so you shouldn't be asking in this thread".
The ideal solution should be that people just take the small amount of time, and effort required to see if their question is a common one before they post, but despite notices asking them to do just that, they do not. This would be the advice in any large sub or forum, not just this one.
Did you ask your question again after the 24 hour reset, or did you just assume that because it wasn't answered then the thread is useless?
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