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shubashubamogumogu t1_iwfqh7d wrote

I think 75% had their time. Back when I joined this subreddit last year they were basically every post. GMMK Pro's and Q1's galore.

Now as other comments hinted 65% layout is quite common. TKLs' have had some kind of resurgence as well, which from digging through old geekhack threads seemed to be quite popular back in the day.


QWERKey-UK OP t1_iwgk2o5 wrote

Maybe. Difficult to understand why though.


shubashubamogumogu t1_iwjuxpv wrote

>Difficult to understand why though.

Are you talking about the resurgence of TKL's?


QWERKey-UK OP t1_iwjzmnf wrote

No... I like TKLs... I meant 75s


shubashubamogumogu t1_iwkjmvq wrote

Oh the decline in 75% popularity since last year?

I guess everyone (figure of speech) has had either a GMMK Pro or a Q1, so lack of interest maybe? Or maybe seeing so many of them just turned people off the layout? Like an oversaturated situation.

Don't get me wrong I use F keys often but I am still not a big fan of 75%. I wouldn't use the dedicated F row and since mapping my 60% Alice to only using the bottom 4 rows I've just trained my muscle memory for a multi layered home-row layout which I have been loving.

I do appreciate a good 75% layout keyboard when I see one though. I found the Paragon to be really nice design. Although I don't like the encoder in top right location I would have liked to see an F13 option but you can't have everything. And yeah by now you probably know I prefer non-exploded 75's, and preferably with F13 just for aesthetics.

Edit: And to answer an unasked question, Why were 75's so popular last year? My guess is it was something familiar and comfortable to move to for many newcomers who were coming from Gaming/mainstream/membrane TKL's and Fullsizes. Obviously it works out well if you are familiar with dedicated Function keys and I guess the exploded arrow cluster was also appealing because it was easy to locate?

I always had the feeling TKL's were lacking in popularity in the recent community because it reminded some users of "retro" keyboards which they thought was what their dad/mum would use so they were automatically "uncool".

Just my theory anyway. Kind of makes sense why the Logitech Pop keys and Nuphy Air 75 came out with their 75 layouts, I am guessing those companies saw it as a safe bet and a good seller. And Logitech seems to have doubled down on 75 with the MX Mechanical.


QWERKey-UK OP t1_iwko8up wrote

>I guess everyone (figure of speech) has had either a GMMK Pro or a Q1, so lack of interest maybe?

That's actually a good point.


WozNZ t1_iwflmlv wrote

This is true of most formats apart from 60/65%.

I prefer TKL and 100% and that gets even more difficult and expensive than 75%


QWERKey-UK OP t1_iwflyhv wrote

There seems to be more TKLs than 75s. There's been a few TKLs lately. 100% has always been left out in the cold, but 75s seems to be a recent thing. I'm sure they are waning in popularity, which would be a shame.


Stumpy-_- t1_iwg8kqy wrote

I'm not sure why you've been downvoted so much here, everything you've said is perfectly accurate


WozNZ t1_iwkb01q wrote

It is standard for the internet, no?

From experience there are too many people that when someone says something that does not sit with their view they take it as a personal insult for some insane reason :)

Sort of "How dare you not like 60%, that is my favourite" click down lol

Won't be the 100% crowd, there are like 5 of us and I am one of them in here and engaged in the discussion so that only leaves 4 others and they are occupied looking for a 100% kit to build


QWERKey-UK OP t1_ix0tqoz wrote

>Won't be the 100% crowd, there are like 5 of us

LOL. That actually DID make me laugh out loud... not just type LOL.


sledge812 t1_iwihgdz wrote

I'll take a guess. He's been the voice of reason in here and this doesn't sit very well with some people.


anhphamfmr t1_iwfsnto wrote

75% is my absolute limit. I cant understand why people prefer to go below that.


Enginseer68 t1_iwg5jft wrote

I used to feel the same

Until I map the FN key to Caps Lock, then it changes everything

I can access most functions I need with my left hand, and reduce the size + weight of my keyboard

If you need arrow keys then 65% will solve that problem


anhphamfmr t1_iwgl19g wrote

I have a small penis, so I need a big keyboard to compensate for that. it's always 100% for me


NoOne-NBA- t1_iwgsd0o wrote

You should get a jacked up, 1-ton, Ram quad-cab 4WD, with a long bed.
That seems to be the go-to solution for all the phallically-challenged individuals in my area.

Make sure you get the optional wall of lights across the entire front too.
Blinding the shit out of all of us Miata drivers, before you pass, is an essential part of successfully hiding your teeny weenie from the public.


WozNZ t1_iwkc5xg wrote

Thanks for the capslock hint. That makes a lot of sense in that you can switch layer and stay on that layer. Capslock is one of the few keys I hardly use normally.


NoOne-NBA- t1_iwgpyci wrote

You can get 75 keys into a 60% case, so I don't see any reason to opt for a 75% case.

The keyboard I'm using right now has 69 keys, with three sets of arrow keys (1 dedicated and 2 layered), and a full proper numpad (also layered), all stuffed into a 60% case, with HHKB blockers on the bottom row.

What more do you want?


Stuart_Munto t1_iwfqjbi wrote

I completely agree

Exploded 75% is by far my favourite - having a slight separation for the arrow keys not only (imo) looks better but is highly functional

TKL is my second favourite form factor. I don’t think I could daily drive a 60%


Enginseer68 t1_iwg5na9 wrote

Well, try and you will see why :D

If you map the FN key to Caps Lock, then you can access most functions you need with your left hand, plus you can reduce the size + weight of your keyboard

If you need arrow keys then 65% will solve that problem


jyaki168 t1_iwftfm8 wrote

I want more 100% :(


QWERKey-UK OP t1_iwg7r04 wrote

Agreed to a point. I'd like one 100% in my collection. I missed the Odin, and the keychron doesn't appeal to me.


WozNZ t1_iwkblog wrote

I run a Q6 at work and love it. Has a higher pitched tone to it for typing sound but sure you could dampen that out of it with some work, but I sort of like its sound if I am honest.

But get what you mean on the keychron design style. I have the black case and so simple in design that it is a nothing sort of look as simple "function over form" looks.


FluleRL t1_iwge3pg wrote

qk75 in 10 days


QWERKey-UK OP t1_iwgh3dj wrote

Indeed. Looks like a good one for the money as well.


FluleRL t1_iwgh8zw wrote

I agree but I’m personally a fan of smaller boards and the qk75 colors don’t appeal to me that much so i’ll wait for a qk65 redrop


KABOTECH t1_iwfmfls wrote

Anything without proper arrow keys is a no for me, I do like small form factors but it's just stupid when you have to press FN to use arrow keys


QWERKey-UK OP t1_iwfmrta wrote

65s have arrow keys... but when it comes to 60s, I agree. I have a few 60s and it is a bit fiddly.


NoOne-NBA- t1_iwgumii wrote

On the other side of that argument, I have dedicated arrow keys on my 60%, in addition to the layered ones.
That setup allows me to use whichever set makes the most sense, at any given moment.

If my right hand is on the mouse, and going back to it, I will either use the dedicated arrow keys, or use WASD with my left hand, surrounded by Backspace, Delete, Pg Up, Pg Dn, etc...
If my right hand is on the mouse, and needs to go to typing position next, I will move it straight to the home position, then use the layered arrows on IJKL, also with the nav cluster keys around them.
If my right hand is already in typing position, I will swap to IJKL, on the fly, then resume typing, without ever moving my right hand from home position.

Moving my hand off the home position, to go use the dedicated arrow keys, then moving it to hit a follow-up key, like Backspace or Delete, then moving it back to home position, is completely inefficient.


antei_ku t1_iwgwckd wrote

Have ralt as fn, WASD as arrows on 2nd layer. Your hands don’t even need to move from the home keys position unlike dedicated arrow keys


Enginseer68 t1_iwg5vse wrote

What you need is a keyboard that can be reprogrammed...

So first, I assume you know the 65% layout right?

If not, you can always map the right mod cluster to become arrow keys on a 60%. How often do you REALLY NEED right Alt, right Ctrl, right Shift and Menu key? Not for me, so on my 60% they become the arrow keys

Then I map the FN key to Caps Lock, I can access most functions with my left hand, plus you can reduce the size + weight of your keyboard


thelegojunkie t1_iwg2tuh wrote

QK75 comes out at the end of the month, Sonnet is one of the best boards of the year, Akko is pumping 75s out like candy, Glorious released a flexkit for the GMMK Pro, Aero75, etc…


QWERKey-UK OP t1_iwg716a wrote

I've just ordered a Sonnet.

As for the GMMK Pro, I have one and I'd rather cut my testicles off with a rusty knife than pay Glorious even more money to fix their crap design. Not a great board, and not one of my better purchases.


thelegojunkie t1_iwg8t55 wrote

I don't disagree with you. I spent HOURS, and so much money to try this mod or that to fix the GMMK Pro, and I eventually came to the conclusion that I just needed to take a loss and sell it off. I absolutely loved the layout of the GMMK Pro, but the sound and feel were so off. I'll probably order a QK75 because it has a very similar layout but with enthusiast level design and implementation.


yeahlemmegetauhh t1_iwg4g32 wrote

We need more 1800/98% layout there's like 4


St-ealthassassin t1_iwgcx2h wrote

QK98 is coming next year


AcesCable t1_iwigff9 wrote

Tomo and Sonnet are great. I know Magnus175 is also in the works, you should check it out.


Flybeck2 t1_iwjnpob wrote

Tomo is so good.


Silentism t1_iwfxcai wrote

like 70% of keyboard gb's have been 60/65% boards. Need more 75's so I don't feel as bad buying another board just because its a different form factor than 3 of my other boards lol


Enginseer68 t1_iwg5bse wrote

Uhm...75% is very popular already

I think what we need more now is more creative layouts that incorporate the numpad, I love 1800 and 96% but they are not the only way to do it

However I do admit that 75% is a much better compromise between compactness and usability, also 75% can showoff keycaps better than 60% (more keycaps)


herfalerf724 t1_iwk71fs wrote

Not sure what you mean. 75% is the form factor of choice for big name brands that want to make a “custom keyboard” (gmmk pro, that keychron thing, drops new turd, mode sonnet, kbd75) as well as a number of recent highly successful actual custom boards like the 7v, tomo, hex 4b and other.

This is all despite 75% being a relatively silly form factor. It’s got goofy proportions, and when done in an exploded layout it’s barely any smaller than a tkl while not looking half as good. Personally I don’t understand why you would need an f row so at that point just get a 65 if you need dedicated arrows or get a 60 if you can handle split right shift and hhkb arrows. 75 literally serves no advantage over any other form factor.


QWERKey-UK OP t1_iwk7zna wrote

>I don’t understand why you would need an f row



herfalerf724 t1_iwk88s4 wrote

A legitimate criticism. F keys can be easily bound to a layer on the num row. If you absolutely must have a dedicated f row because pressing a function key is hard then just buy a tkl. You get to have a better looking keyboard, get your full nav cluster and barely sacrifice any space compared to a 75.


QWERKey-UK OP t1_iwk8hgl wrote

You do realise that you are presenting your own personal tastes and opinions as if they were fact, don't you?


herfalerf724 t1_iwk91bc wrote

Sure, but I am right though.


QWERKey-UK OP t1_iwkcsib wrote

How can a personal choice be right, or wrong? I think TKLs look unbalanced with too much negative space to the right. That's what I think, so therefore it's right. Agreed?


bsiu t1_iwfrs29 wrote

QK75 and Zoom75 GB are both this month...few smaller projects as well.


sunfaller t1_iwfrzsk wrote

For some reason, I like the aesthetics of 65 but like the usefulness of 75.

Unfortunately I also don't like the compacted 75 where the F and number rows have no space. I guess I collect 65 keyboards for display but actually use 75 for work and at home. And thus I like to buy more 65 but only keep 2 75s at a time


xxInsanex t1_iwg0ukr wrote

Same, i love the look of 60 and 65% but i MUCH prefer the functionality of 75 and tkl


MattBoog t1_iwfs6q7 wrote

Agreed, but if possible I specifically want a key just above the right arrow. That sadly doesn't really exist. So I might have to change my keybinds first.


gregraystinger t1_iwft9m5 wrote

I like tkl for coding and general typing, but I might switch to a 65 or 60 for gaming soon.


QWERKey-UK OP t1_iwg7ulw wrote

I just think 75s have almost the functionality of a TKL for most people, and are not much larger than a 65. I suppose if you code, the TKL has functionality for you tough, so yeah... gotta agree with you.


zosek08 t1_iwg82z0 wrote

I have an unmoded redragon 60% keyboard at home (waiting for stuff to get here, to start the modding). I use home pc for gaming most of the time, so i dont really need the F row or arrow keys for that matter.
I have (still unpacked) keychron q1 waiting for xmas, that i will be building in the xmas time for office job. I prefer the 75% layout if i had to choose between the two.


QWERKey-UK OP t1_iwgdw6o wrote

I think it's the best looking format, especially in exploded form. The alternating F row colours or most keycaps really complement the other mod keys well, and it looks more balanced to me. It's all a personal choice though.


jeroplane t1_iwga0ya wrote

You're just not looking hard enough. Sonnet, Tomo, QK75, Zoom75, Thera75 V2.

There are just a lot of great 65s and 60s too. It's been a great year of keyboard releases.


QWERKey-UK OP t1_iwgdp54 wrote

I'm not saying there aren't any. :) Just that lately, there seems to be a hard bias towards smaller form factors. I've just ordered a Sonnet BTW.. can't wait to built that :)


170505170505 t1_iwjfbd4 wrote

Zoom is TKL not 75% and not sure why but the others look meh to me


jeroplane t1_iwkwnj5 wrote

I believe there will be a Zoom75 next year.


PlayPl123 t1_iwgdnto wrote

there is enoguh of them already


QWERKey-UK OP t1_iwghdha wrote

In existence, sure. There just seems to be a bias towards 65/60 more than there used to be. Maybe it's just me. I know about the Sonnet, QK75 etc. My post wasn't to suggest there are none, just that given that a 75 has pretty much all of the functionality of a TKL in a form factor not much larger than a 65, it baffles me why there aren't more. Perhaps just my bias, but still... makes me wonder why.


Lowbar_Squat t1_iwgn0hp wrote

I just want some interesting layouts for 60/65/75. Give me a southpaw knob with macros or something.


SilkyTaint t1_iwgo9d2 wrote

I just want my fkeys. You can have the arrows


paradoxally t1_iwgz3f9 wrote

I'm all for more 75s, but I prefer TKL layout. There's something about the spacing between sections that makes it look nicer.


[deleted] t1_iwhve2i wrote

How I didn’t know 60s were the most popular glad I’m starting off making those! Ima keep venturing up in size tho forsure with my wooden boards


HeightAboveGeoid t1_iwhykxt wrote

After reading some comments and your replies my thoughts are:

  • 75% does have nearly the same functionality as a TKL, but aesthetically I think the TKL format is more balanced and visually appealing. 75s do offer that functionality in the size of about a 65.
  • For the majority of people, for everyday workloads, I think F keys are largely vestigial. For the oft chance you need it a Fn+number is easy enough.
  • I feel like there has been a lot of 75s coming out lately. About a year and a half ago 75s were the hot shiz, 65s made their comeback, and now we're back on the 75s.

I had an ID80 and gave it to a friend. My current keyboard rotation is a Mode65 and a StackedTKL. I have a Brutal60 but I stopped using it. People always talk about the arrow keys with 65%+ but for me I miss having a couple nav keys the most. The arrows are nice too.

I think my ideal layout is a F-rowless TKL. But those made are usually relatively expensive and limited :(


xsabinx t1_iwkwduu wrote

I feel like there aren't enough custom 75% boards with a layout like the sonnet with separated f row but not the arrow keys. I wish the qk75 took that layout instead


Bennedict929 t1_iwg7z0g wrote

It's function over form, which is frowned upon on this sub where the lunatics are still competing on eliminating more and more keys from what would be considered as "keyboard"


QWERKey-UK OP t1_iwge0m7 wrote

In my opinion, 75s are the perfect form factor. You have almost all the functionality of a TKL, in something not a great deal bigger than a 65. What's not to like?


NoOne-NBA- t1_iwgxiuj wrote

After stuffing all of the functionality of my Wind X into a 60% case, "almost all the functionality of a TKL" just doesn't make the cut anymore, at least for me.


QWERKey-UK OP t1_iwh5tqh wrote

Sure... but as you probably knew... I meant actual keys... not layered in any way. With enough layers you can stuff anything into anything.


NoOne-NBA- t1_iwhhwvl wrote

The only parts of my keyboard that require layers are the numpad and F-keys.
I could eliminate the layers on the F-keys, by converting the number row to dedicated F-keys, but I don't use them frequently enough to warrant that.

All my layout requires, to activate the numpad, is either bumping the center Fn key with my right thumb, to lock in the numpad completely, or pressing down with my left thumb, where it sits, to activate the numpad momentarily.
Both of those actions are considerably more efficient than moving your hand to a dedicated numpad, or trying to enter the numbers with the number row.

By contrast, a standard 75% has no proper numpad, whether layered or not.
The only way to fix that is to do a full rework, like I've done with my 60%.
Applying that same type of layout to a 75% would result in nothing but a bunch of wasted real estate though.


QWERKey-UK OP t1_iwhw7ps wrote

That's my point. You either need layers.... or lose the number row. I use the F row a lot, which is why I like 75s. I also just like them aesthetically, particularly exploded 75s.

I'd rather have a 75 and a separate numpad for the rare occasions I would use it. I have a wireless one that sits in a drawer until its services are called upon.


NoOne-NBA- t1_iwim2f6 wrote

As a left-handed graphic designer and gamer, any keyboard without a numpad is literally useless to me.

I do too much number entry at work.
Trying to enter all those numbers on the number row is a literal waste of time, and would make me want to smash the keyboard.
At home, I hold the mouse in my left hand while gaming, so the numpad/arrow/nav cluster are where I do button entry.

From an aesthetic standpoint, I really love my Wind X.
I was equally fond of the HHKB-style 60% I had, coupled with a hand-built macropad that mimics the right side of a traditional 100% board.

Those two boards, viewed together, made up an F-keyless 100%, which worked beautifully for me, until my brain decided it could do even better.
That was the spark that resulted in my current work board.

Unfortunately for me, after using my current work board, even the Wind X annoys me now, if I try to use it for graphics.
I tried to do some work in Illustrator over the weekend, to design a replacement for it, and it frustrated me to the point I didn't make any headway at all, on that project.

How's that for a chicken vs. egg dilemma?


QWERKey-UK OP t1_iwk0clu wrote

After reading that I'm just glad my needs are far more basic :)


NoOne-NBA- t1_iwk9tie wrote

My "needs" have evolved dramatically, the more I have explored the world of programmable keyboards.

I spent the better part of a decade perfectly happy with the 100% board I had, with Cherry Reds in it.
Then necessity forced me to explore ways to change keymaps on the fly, which ultimately led me to where I am now.

Once you've used something that has been designed specifically for you, and for the way you intend to use it, going back to anything less than that is extremely difficult.