This is true of most formats apart from 60/65%.

I prefer TKL and 100% and that gets even more difficult and expensive than 75%

There seems to be more TKLs than 75s. There's been a few TKLs lately. 100% has always been left out in the cold, but 75s seems to be a recent thing. I'm sure they are waning in popularity, which would be a shame.

Anything without proper arrow keys is a no for me, I do like small form factors but it's just stupid when you have to press FN to use arrow keys

65s have arrow keys... but when it comes to 60s, I agree. I have a few 60s and it is a bit fiddly.

I'm talking about 60, most people say it's the best form factor but I don't agree, I'm okay with FN+F keys but it's a pain in the ass when it doesn't have separate arrow keys

I agree.

I think 75% had their time. Back when I joined this subreddit last year they were basically every post. GMMK Pro's and Q1's galore.

Now as other comments hinted 65% layout is quite common. TKLs' have had some kind of resurgence as well, which from digging through old geekhack threads seemed to be quite popular back in the day.

I completely agree

Exploded 75% is by far my favourite - having a slight separation for the arrow keys not only (imo) looks better but is highly functional

TKL is my second favourite form factor. I don’t think I could daily drive a 60%

QK75 and Zoom75 GB are both this month...few smaller projects as well.

For some reason, I like the aesthetics of 65 but like the usefulness of 75.

Unfortunately I also don't like the compacted 75 where the F and number rows have no space. I guess I collect 65 keyboards for display but actually use 75 for work and at home. And thus I like to buy more 65 but only keep 2 75s at a time

Agreed, but if possible I specifically want a key just above the right arrow. That sadly doesn't really exist. So I might have to change my keybinds first.

75% is my absolute limit. I cant understand why people prefer to go below that.

I like tkl for coding and general typing, but I might switch to a 65 or 60 for gaming soon.

I want more 100% :(

like 70% of keyboard gb's have been 60/65% boards. Need more 75's so I don't feel as bad buying another board just because its a different form factor than 3 of my other boards lol

Same, i love the look of 60 and 65% but i MUCH prefer the functionality of 75 and tkl

QK75 comes out at the end of the month, Sonnet is one of the best boards of the year, Akko is pumping 75s out like candy, Glorious released a flexkit for the GMMK Pro, Aero75, etc…

We need more 1800/98% layout there's like 4

Uhm...75% is very popular already

I think what we need more now is more creative layouts that incorporate the numpad, I love 1800 and 96% but they are not the only way to do it

However I do admit that 75% is a much better compromise between compactness and usability, also 75% can showoff keycaps better than 60% (more keycaps)

I used to feel the same

Until I map the FN key to Caps Lock, then it changes everything

I can access most functions I need with my left hand, and reduce the size + weight of my keyboard

If you need arrow keys then 65% will solve that problem

Well, try and you will see why :D

If you map the FN key to Caps Lock, then you can access most functions you need with your left hand, plus you can reduce the size + weight of your keyboard

If you need arrow keys then 65% will solve that problem

What you need is a keyboard that can be reprogrammed...

So first, I assume you know the 65% layout right?

If not, you can always map the right mod cluster to become arrow keys on a 60%. How often do you REALLY NEED right Alt, right Ctrl, right Shift and Menu key? Not for me, so on my 60% they become the arrow keys

Then I map the FN key to Caps Lock, I can access most functions with my left hand, plus you can reduce the size + weight of your keyboard

I've just ordered a Sonnet.

As for the GMMK Pro, I have one and I'd rather cut my testicles off with a rusty knife than pay Glorious even more money to fix their crap design. Not a great board, and not one of my better purchases.

Agreed to a point. I'd like one 100% in my collection. I missed the Odin, and the keychron doesn't appeal to me.

I just think 75s have almost the functionality of a TKL for most people, and are not much larger than a 65. I suppose if you code, the TKL has functionality for you tough, so yeah... gotta agree with you.

It's function over form, which is frowned upon on this sub where the lunatics are still competing on eliminating more and more keys from what would be considered as "keyboard"

I have an unmoded redragon 60% keyboard at home (waiting for stuff to get here, to start the modding). I use home pc for gaming most of the time, so i dont really need the F row or arrow keys for that matter.
I have (still unpacked) keychron q1 waiting for xmas, that i will be building in the xmas time for office job. I prefer the 75% layout if i had to choose between the two.

I'm not sure why you've been downvoted so much here, everything you've said is perfectly accurate

I don't disagree with you. I spent HOURS, and so much money to try this mod or that to fix the GMMK Pro, and I eventually came to the conclusion that I just needed to take a loss and sell it off. I absolutely loved the layout of the GMMK Pro, but the sound and feel were so off. I'll probably order a QK75 because it has a very similar layout but with enthusiast level design and implementation.

You're just not looking hard enough. Sonnet, Tomo, QK75, Zoom75, Thera75 V2.

There are just a lot of great 65s and 60s too. It's been a great year of keyboard releases.

QK98 is coming next year

there is enoguh of them already

I'm not saying there aren't any. :) Just that lately, there seems to be a hard bias towards smaller form factors. I've just ordered a Sonnet BTW.. can't wait to built that :)

(shrug). No idea.

I think it's the best looking format, especially in exploded form. The alternating F row colours or most keycaps really complement the other mod keys well, and it looks more balanced to me. It's all a personal choice though.

In my opinion, 75s are the perfect form factor. You have almost all the functionality of a TKL, in something not a great deal bigger than a 65. What's not to like?

qk75 in 10 days

Indeed. Looks like a good one for the money as well.

I agree but I’m personally a fan of smaller boards and the qk75 colors don’t appeal to me that much so i’ll wait for a qk65 redrop

In existence, sure. There just seems to be a bias towards 65/60 more than there used to be. Maybe it's just me. I know about the Sonnet, QK75 etc. My post wasn't to suggest there are none, just that given that a 75 has pretty much all of the functionality of a TKL in a form factor not much larger than a 65, it baffles me why there aren't more. Perhaps just my bias, but still... makes me wonder why.

Odin is 1800 though lol

I like 1800s a lot, and there are certainly more than 4 lol. If ur talking about readily available 1800s then true

Assume this was meant for u/yeahlemmegetauhh

Oh yeah sorry

Maybe. Difficult to understand why though.

I have a small penis, so I need a big keyboard to compensate for that. it's always 100% for me

I just want some interesting layouts for 60/65/75. Give me a southpaw knob with macros or something.

I just want my fkeys. You can have the arrows

You can get 75 keys into a 60% case, so I don't see any reason to opt for a 75% case.

The keyboard I'm using right now has 69 keys, with three sets of arrow keys (1 dedicated and 2 layered), and a full proper numpad (also layered), all stuffed into a 60% case, with HHKB blockers on the bottom row.

What more do you want?

https://imgur.com/a/j3dxgK3

60% w/ arrow keys ☺️

You should get a jacked up, 1-ton, Ram quad-cab 4WD, with a long bed.
That seems to be the go-to solution for all the phallically-challenged individuals in my area.

Make sure you get the optional wall of lights across the entire front too.
Blinding the shit out of all of us Miata drivers, before you pass, is an essential part of successfully hiding your teeny weenie from the public.

On the other side of that argument, I have dedicated arrow keys on my 60%, in addition to the layered ones.
That setup allows me to use whichever set makes the most sense, at any given moment.

If my right hand is on the mouse, and going back to it, I will either use the dedicated arrow keys, or use WASD with my left hand, surrounded by Backspace, Delete, Pg Up, Pg Dn, etc...
If my right hand is on the mouse, and needs to go to typing position next, I will move it straight to the home position, then use the layered arrows on IJKL, also with the nav cluster keys around them.
If my right hand is already in typing position, I will swap to IJKL, on the fly, then resume typing, without ever moving my right hand from home position.

Moving my hand off the home position, to go use the dedicated arrow keys, then moving it to hit a follow-up key, like Backspace or Delete, then moving it back to home position, is completely inefficient.

Have ralt as fn, WASD as arrows on 2nd layer. Your hands don’t even need to move from the home keys position unlike dedicated arrow keys

After stuffing all of the functionality of my Wind X into a 60% case, "almost all the functionality of a TKL" just doesn't make the cut anymore, at least for me.

My HHKB Ortho says "Hi".

​

https://preview.redd.it/gnofh5gig60a1.jpeg?width=1208&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=277eadd93bea333af587f10b70b25c58d830ad1e

I'm all for more 75s, but I prefer TKL layout. There's something about the spacing between sections that makes it look nicer.

Sure... but as you probably knew... I meant actual keys... not layered in any way. With enough layers you can stuff anything into anything.

True, but let's be honest... not much missing. Most who want a full size, want it because of the numpad.

Also true haha

The only parts of my keyboard that require layers are the numpad and F-keys.
I could eliminate the layers on the F-keys, by converting the number row to dedicated F-keys, but I don't use them frequently enough to warrant that.

All my layout requires, to activate the numpad, is either bumping the center Fn key with my right thumb, to lock in the numpad completely, or pressing down with my left thumb, where it sits, to activate the numpad momentarily.
Both of those actions are considerably more efficient than moving your hand to a dedicated numpad, or trying to enter the numbers with the number row.

By contrast, a standard 75% has no proper numpad, whether layered or not.
The only way to fix that is to do a full rework, like I've done with my 60%.
Applying that same type of layout to a 75% would result in nothing but a bunch of wasted real estate though.

How I didn’t know 60s were the most popular glad I’m starting off making those! Ima keep venturing up in size tho forsure with my wooden boards

That's my point. You either need layers.... or lose the number row. I use the F row a lot, which is why I like 75s. I also just like them aesthetically, particularly exploded 75s.

I'd rather have a 75 and a separate numpad for the rare occasions I would use it. I have a wireless one that sits in a drawer until its services are called upon.

After reading some comments and your replies my thoughts are:

• 75% does have nearly the same functionality as a TKL, but aesthetically I think the TKL format is more balanced and visually appealing. 75s do offer that functionality in the size of about a 65.
• For the majority of people, for everyday workloads, I think F keys are largely vestigial. For the oft chance you need it a Fn+number is easy enough.
• I feel like there has been a lot of 75s coming out lately. About a year and a half ago 75s were the hot shiz, 65s made their comeback, and now we're back on the 75s.

I had an ID80 and gave it to a friend. My current keyboard rotation is a Mode65 and a StackedTKL. I have a Brutal60 but I stopped using it. People always talk about the arrow keys with 65%+ but for me I miss having a couple nav keys the most. The arrows are nice too.

I think my ideal layout is a F-rowless TKL. But those made are usually relatively expensive and limited :(

Tomo and Sonnet are great. I know Magnus175 is also in the works, you should check it out.

I'll take a guess. He's been the voice of reason in here and this doesn't sit very well with some people.

As a left-handed graphic designer and gamer, any keyboard without a numpad is literally useless to me.

I do too much number entry at work.
Trying to enter all those numbers on the number row is a literal waste of time, and would make me want to smash the keyboard.
At home, I hold the mouse in my left hand while gaming, so the numpad/arrow/nav cluster are where I do button entry.

From an aesthetic standpoint, I really love my Wind X.
I was equally fond of the HHKB-style 60% I had, coupled with a hand-built macropad that mimics the right side of a traditional 100% board.

Those two boards, viewed together, made up an F-keyless 100%, which worked beautifully for me, until my brain decided it could do even better.
That was the spark that resulted in my current work board.

Unfortunately for me, after using my current work board, even the Wind X annoys me now, if I try to use it for graphics.
I tried to do some work in Illustrator over the weekend, to design a replacement for it, and it frustrated me to the point I didn't make any headway at all, on that project.

How's that for a chicken vs. egg dilemma?

Zoom is TKL not 75% and not sure why but the others look meh to me

Tomo is so good.

>Difficult to understand why though.

Are you talking about the resurgence of TKL's?

No... I like TKLs... I meant 75s

After reading that I'm just glad my needs are far more basic :)

I just ordered a Sonnet.

Not sure what you mean. 75% is the form factor of choice for big name brands that want to make a “custom keyboard” (gmmk pro, that keychron thing, drops new turd, mode sonnet, kbd75) as well as a number of recent highly successful actual custom boards like the 7v, tomo, hex 4b and other.

This is all despite 75% being a relatively silly form factor. It’s got goofy proportions, and when done in an exploded layout it’s barely any smaller than a tkl while not looking half as good. Personally I don’t understand why you would need an f row so at that point just get a 65 if you need dedicated arrows or get a 60 if you can handle split right shift and hhkb arrows. 75 literally serves no advantage over any other form factor.

>I don’t understand why you would need an f row

(sigh)

A legitimate criticism. F keys can be easily bound to a layer on the num row. If you absolutely must have a dedicated f row because pressing a function key is hard then just buy a tkl. You get to have a better looking keyboard, get your full nav cluster and barely sacrifice any space compared to a 75.

You do realise that you are presenting your own personal tastes and opinions as if they were fact, don't you?

Sure, but I am right though.

My "needs" have evolved dramatically, the more I have explored the world of programmable keyboards.

I spent the better part of a decade perfectly happy with the 100% board I had, with Cherry Reds in it.
Then necessity forced me to explore ways to change keymaps on the fly, which ultimately led me to where I am now.

Once you've used something that has been designed specifically for you, and for the way you intend to use it, going back to anything less than that is extremely difficult.

It is standard for the internet, no?

From experience there are too many people that when someone says something that does not sit with their view they take it as a personal insult for some insane reason :)

Sort of "How dare you not like 60%, that is my favourite" click down lol

Won't be the 100% crowd, there are like 5 of us and I am one of them in here and engaged in the discussion so that only leaves 4 others and they are occupied looking for a 100% kit to build

I run a Q6 at work and love it. Has a higher pitched tone to it for typing sound but sure you could dampen that out of it with some work, but I sort of like its sound if I am honest.

But get what you mean on the keychron design style. I have the black case and so simple in design that it is a nothing sort of look as simple "function over form" looks.

Thanks for the capslock hint. That makes a lot of sense in that you can switch layer and stay on that layer. Capslock is one of the few keys I hardly use normally.

How can a personal choice be right, or wrong? I think TKLs look unbalanced with too much negative space to the right. That's what I think, so therefore it's right. Agreed?

That's wild!

Oh the decline in 75% popularity since last year?

I guess everyone (figure of speech) has had either a GMMK Pro or a Q1, so lack of interest maybe? Or maybe seeing so many of them just turned people off the layout? Like an oversaturated situation.

Don't get me wrong I use F keys often but I am still not a big fan of 75%. I wouldn't use the dedicated F row and since mapping my 60% Alice to only using the bottom 4 rows I've just trained my muscle memory for a multi layered home-row layout which I have been loving.

I do appreciate a good 75% layout keyboard when I see one though. I found the Paragon to be really nice design. Although I don't like the encoder in top right location I would have liked to see an F13 option but you can't have everything. And yeah by now you probably know I prefer non-exploded 75's, and preferably with F13 just for aesthetics.

Edit: And to answer an unasked question, Why were 75's so popular last year? My guess is it was something familiar and comfortable to move to for many newcomers who were coming from Gaming/mainstream/membrane TKL's and Fullsizes. Obviously it works out well if you are familiar with dedicated Function keys and I guess the exploded arrow cluster was also appealing because it was easy to locate?

I always had the feeling TKL's were lacking in popularity in the recent community because it reminded some users of "retro" keyboards which they thought was what their dad/mum would use so they were automatically "uncool".

Just my theory anyway. Kind of makes sense why the Logitech Pop keys and Nuphy Air 75 came out with their 75 layouts, I am guessing those companies saw it as a safe bet and a good seller. And Logitech seems to have doubled down on 75 with the MX Mechanical.

>I guess everyone (figure of speech) has had either a GMMK Pro or a Q1, so lack of interest maybe?

That's actually a good point.

I feel like there aren't enough custom 75% boards with a layout like the sonnet with separated f row but not the arrow keys. I wish the qk75 took that layout instead

I believe there will be a Zoom75 next year.

>Won't be the 100% crowd, there are like 5 of us

LOL. That actually DID make me laugh out loud... not just type LOL.