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SoftDev90 t1_ixxuh44 wrote

Well simple solution, stop doing group buys and force companies to take on the risk to create an actual in stock product instead of this crap system they got in place right now.

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QWERKey-UK t1_ixywzvo wrote

> stop doing group buys and force companies to take on the risk to create an actual in stock product

Large companies don't take risks on something that historically sells so few units. GMK just make what you tell them to. They don't design anything. The people who design them are just community members like you and I. We don't have 5 figure sums of cash just lying around. Even a successful group buy for keycaps sells just a couple of thousand examples, including extras. The risk is very high, and the cost are significant.

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teh_maxh t1_ixy4gy2 wrote

I wouldn't even mind if they were more like a normal pre-order system, where you might have to wait a few months. Waiting times of a year or more are unreasonable, though.

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Truth-Turtle t1_ixxyeq3 wrote

This is so true. I’ve entered a couple GBs myself and from time to time they even feel sketchy. Instead of allowing some people to use this system to scam others or simply take so long, we should force companies to set up a legitimate system where manufacturing these products becomes readily accessible. QwertyKeys is the Goat rn in my opinion for this exact reason.

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QWERKey-UK t1_ixyx7f3 wrote

>we should force companies to set up a legitimate system

Which companies are you talking about here? GMK do not sell keycaps... they make them. Who will you be forcing?

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RegaliaKeyboards t1_iy17642 wrote

I would assume they are talking about the vendors that the GBs are ran through

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Truth-Turtle t1_iy19axb wrote

Yes, GMK makes keycaps. I don’t know too much about their manufacturing process, yet it appears they are extremely slow at producing products ran through GBs sold through many different vendors.

& by ‘legitimate system’ all I meant was a process where products such as keycaps do not take over a year to manufacture. Maybe I don’t know too much about how these products are made, like GMK’s keycaps. Maybe it does take a year to make them🤷🏻‍♂️ This was also not to discredit GMK, lol. I want a few of their keycap sets myself👍🏼

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QWERKey-UK t1_iy2mkt4 wrote

Not all manufacturers take as long as GMK, and GMK have explained why they are having the issues they are having, and what they are doing about it. They've even posted in this sub themselves explaining. If anyone is to blame, it's vendors who keep running GBs with GMK knowing the lead times are sometimes two years or so. Even so, we all know the lead times, so if you don't want to wait for a GMK set (other manufacturers are available), then either try to get extras once they drop (but you'll still have to wait... you just won't have to pay up front), or just don't bother with group buys. There are loads of in- stock, original keycaps from other manufacturers that you can just buy right now without waiting. Anyone would think that you HAVE to have GMK keycaps (other manufacturers are available), and the wait times are something you HAVE to put up with. If you don't want to wait, don't use group buys. If you know the lead times going in, then you can't really complain about it. If group buys are delayed beyond what you were told, that can be annoying, sure, but let's be honest here, no one enters a GMK group buy and expects anything other than a wait time measured in months.... many months. I don't get it... people happily enter group buys, knowing it will take 18 months (for argument sake), then lose their shit when it takes 21 months or whatever. I mean...sure, annoying, but were they actually sat behind their front door waiting for them to arrive or something? If you enter a keycap group buy, expect a long wait. Order them, and move on. You don't WAIT for them.

If you are a newcomer to the hobby, please don't enter a group buy for something you really need. Stick to in stock stuff until you have a fair collection of boards and caps and switches, so you can at least enjoy the hobby without having to sit there staring at a calendar waiting for your precious keycaps to arrive in order to do take part.

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SoftDev90 t1_ixy5t0z wrote

Yeah something has to change. Group buys are so stupid and artificially limit stock because they refuse to keep anything on hand. It's infuriating to see a cool keycap set online that I really want only to find out it was from a group buy 4 years ago and they aren't doing anymore of them. Imagine if you went into any store anywhere and they said here's an idea for a product, pay now and it will be delivered in 1 to 2 years. That shit would absolutely not fly and shouldn't in this community either. As a business take some of that money and buy some sets ahead of time and then pre-order when it's close to release time at least. Stop putting all risk on the consumer while you sit there making money as a middle man. Plenty of other ways to gauge interest in a product without the pre buy bullshit.

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QWERKey-UK t1_ixyxc86 wrote

>It's infuriating to see a cool keycap set online that I really want only to find out it was from a group buy 4 years ago

Then perhaps write to the designer and ask if they would consider doing another run. GMK can't sell you more. They don't have the right to do so. They belong to the designer, not GMK. GMK do not design keycaps.

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RegaliaKeyboards t1_iy17b0f wrote

Not every designer reruns or will rerun their sets unfortunately.

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QWERKey-UK t1_iy2nkui wrote

True... Many designers make a set just because they want it for themselves though, so if that's the case, you can't blame them for not wanting to go through all that again, as it's quite a stressful experience and quite a lot of work to run a GB, even though the vendor is doing the heavy lifting with regards to payments and distribution, the designer is mainly responsible for the advertising and PR for the GB. If enough people contact them though, and ask, they may realise that there's an opportunity there for them. I reckon few people consider this... simply messaging them to ask them. I often do, but if I'm one of just a handful of people doing so then it's just a drop in the ocean.

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RegaliaKeyboards t1_iy3j7ye wrote

I can understand that reasoning, of some designers going through with sets just because they want them, but I still think if there are really popular sets that were ran before the hobby boomed due to COVID, they really should be reran. I know some have, but I can think of a good example right off the top of my head with GMK Noel. Designer came right out and said they would not do an R2 of the set, even though there are a lot of people that really like the set and would like to have it. I know there is a NicePBT version, but some people in the hobby heavily prefer ABS over PBT, and some also prefer the latin alphas the set originally ran with over the sublegend ones that are on the NicePBT set. And then not sure what the plan is on GMK Mizu, not sure if that designer plans to do another round in GMK (I know other profiles have been ran, which I do like seeing, but it would be nice to have another GMK run since some only like using cherry profile).

I get that running a GB is stressful, but IMO I feel like if you have a popular set that ran successfully already, you have a lot less stress the second time around. PR will be easier since you can just base it all off of the last run, color matching is basically non existent since the set already successfully ran, renders, kitting etc might be updated, but even if the kitting is changed up, there is still a lot less work there too. Just some of my thoughts :)

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QWERKey-UK t1_iy42uuv wrote

I can't really disagree with anything you are saying, but you can't force the designer at gunpoint :) All I can imagine is that perhaps a vendor with the ability to invest in an instock version may make a deal with the designer if they are amenable to the idea, but apart from that, if the designer says no, then that's all there is to it. It's a shame, but at the end of the day, there will be lots more interesting keycap group buys, and so long as this hobby retains control of itself by using its members' creativity and the willingness to self finance and control itself, then the next Olivia, or Mizu, or Darling may be just around the corner.

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RegaliaKeyboards t1_iy44a3e wrote

Oh for sure, can't force the designer to do anything. That doesn't mean people in the community won't have a shitty opinion of the designer for not rerunning popular sets.

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3yatt t1_ixytsmv wrote

I did $17k in 2 years. It can be worse. You either are about the life, or you aren’t. People can rip on the group buy model all they want, but the simple fact is it’s what’s allowed people’s ideas to come to life. Vendors are taking on a ton of risk with stock nowadays. We are now seeing more in stock products than ever before. GMK sets aren’t being “flipped” anymore because most of the sets ran in the last couple years are sitting in inventory as extras. There are growing pains, but the reality is group buys now function on a principle of MOQ and getting a discount. We’ve seen plenty of sets gets cancelled in the last year because no one wanted them. However, geekhack and interest check exist for a reason. If you don’t want to wait, then just wait for the set to be ran as “extras”. You’ll easily be able to snag whatever you want in a year or so’s time. Having a peek behind the curtain of what it actually takes to bring a product to the shelves and getting a significant preorder discount because of it isn’t a reason to say it’s stupid.

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Truth-Turtle t1_ixy75gc wrote

We’ve built this business method though. By buying into these GBs we allow individuals without any manufacturing or design experience to feel like they can carry out projects too big for them to handle.

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