When you spent 2,000$ over the last year and still haven't seen one GB arriveSubmitted by CertainlyBright t3_z5lkvv in MechanicalKeyboards
QWERKey-UK t1_ixyw456 wrote
Reply to comment by mamamarty21 in When you spent 2,000$ over the last year and still haven't seen one GB arrive by CertainlyBright
>How is this illogical?
Because you clearly have no idea about the costs of developing and manufacturing a keycap set. The people who design all these cool sets are just community members like you and I. They are not large companies. If you wanted to design a keycap set, where would you get the money from? What you don't seem to realise is that even successful group buys for keycaps only sell a couple of thousand (including extras) so the costs are high, and the risk is high. Large companies have no interest in making keycap sets that sell in such small numbers because they would also need to sell them at similar prices. This is why most cheap Chinese keycaps are clones, because the risk is lower. If you KNOW a set is really well liked, you can just make clones to sell at half the price and be fairly certain that they will sell. If you didn't know this beforehand though, it would be a very risky venture to tool up and make caps in these kinds of quantities.
Like most people who say the stuff you are saying, if I asked you to present an alternative model, you'd just say something along the lines of "just make them, and then sell them".... in fact, you pretty much have said that already. This shows that you simply do not have the experience to comment on this. Sorry.
mamamarty21 t1_ixzjagn wrote
Did I not say “take out a business loan”? In one of my posts? That is where I would get the money from if I wanted to make a set.
How many people do you think get burnt off of buying sets from having to wait way over the estimated time? I myself will NEVER EVER take part in a group buy again, and I am sure that there are others. You can’t rely on people like OP who just sink money into it with nothing to show
There are other businesses sell things in stock for hobbies that have less interest than keyboards.
If it isn’t worth the risk to make it, then it shouldn’t be made.
QWERKey-UK t1_ixzk9p0 wrote
>Did I not say “take out a business loan”?
Good luck. Any bank will expect you to have a fully fleshed out business plan. As I keep telling you, even a successful group buy set only sells a couple of thousand. Where are you going to get the evidence that convinces a bank to lend you enough money to make more than that considering that's all they seem to sell? [edit: Many barely scrape though the MOQ limit]
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>I myself will NEVER EVER take part in a group buy again
Good for you. Then just ignore group buys instead of railing against them. If you have no intention of using them again, what difference does it make to you if they exist or not?
mamamarty21 t1_ixznmwe wrote
Like I said, If it isn’t good enough to sell outright, Why bother selling in the first place?
I will shit talk group buys any chance I get because they’re stupid as fuck. They wouldn’t be half as bad if they took less than 6 months to make. It’s bad enough some runners will say “it’ll be done in 8 months” that’s a flat out lie, you won’t see them for over a year, maybe two. I’m sure someone will come along and defend the atrocious wait times too
QWERKey-UK t1_ixzr9vv wrote
>Like I said, If it isn’t good enough to sell outright, Why bother selling in the first place?
They do sell, just not in the quantities you think they do. They are a niche product. They would not sell in the quantities necessary to mass produce them. The only ones that do, are the ones that have proven to be popular over time, and these are available in stock from Drop. The only reason Drop can do this however, is because they now have the benefit of hind sight. Drop won't be commissioning new designs for in stock products. The market is too volatile, and it's almost impossible to predict what will be popular. No one knew Olivia would be as popular as it is, or Laser. It just was. The designer hit on something that people seem to like. There's no formula for this.
> I will shit talk group buys any chance I get because they’re stupid as fuck.
I know, because you won't listen to reason as to why they are necessary. You seem to think that it's all so simple: Just get the cash, and make them, right? I mean, what can be so difficult? :) I challenge you to even design a set, let alone get it made. Go on.. if it's all so simple and morons like me can't understand, surely you're in a great position to make a killing here. What's stopping you?
The wait times are awful, no one would disagree with you. This is not a fault of the group buy model itself though. It's a combination of things. Some of them are avoidable (colour issues) and some of them aren't (manufacturing capacity). The premise of the group buy model is sound though; Essentially, it is just crowd funding. It's not new, or unique to this hobby.
Your responses go beyond mere criticism though, and come across as genuine hatred. This is fine. What really baffles me is this mission you seem to be on to eradicate group buys, as if it would somehow solve a problem for you. If you hate them so much, just ignore them, and get your keycaps another way... or which there are many options available to you. It literally makes no difference to you if they exist or not. This pathological hatred you seem to display is puzzling.
mamamarty21 t1_iy0bp6i wrote
The thing that’s stopping me from designing a set is my lack of interest in doing so. Im not saying it’s easy, but I could figure it out and do it if I wanted to.
I want things to change, and if people keep getting sucked into group buys, that’ll never happen. By spending money on group buys, you’re saying that it’s okay and totally acceptable to get strung along with minimal communication for two years. It’s not okay and people need to quit thinking it is
QWERKey-UK t1_iy0c7pu wrote
>I want things to change
Obviously, but why, and how is getting rid of group buys going to achieve this change. Furthermore, what would this change be?
> Im not saying it’s easy, but I could figure it out and do it if I wanted to.
I guess we'll never know.
mamamarty21 t1_iy0hb6h wrote
Yeah, and contrary to popular belief, learning how to make 3d renders and all that just to prove a point to a random person on the internet isn’t the best use of one’s time. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
QWERKey-UK t1_iy0id0g wrote
There's way more to designing a keycap set than making some renders. It wasn't the reason I said that anyway. This guy thinks he has the solution, and is telling us it's easy, (just get a business loan LOL), so why doesn't he just keep quiet, and get on with revolutionising everything and make a ton of money and transform this hobby?
Because it's easy to come out with bullshit, and even believe that bullshit when you have no idea what you are talking about.
mamamarty21 t1_iy0lkou wrote
I feel like the “and all that” kinda encapsulates the “way more to it” part. Either way, doing it doesn’t interest me. I don’t have enough passion for this shit to make me want to design and produce anything. I don’t even want to do that for hobbies that I’m much much more invested in, so I’d never even think to waste my time with it. There are people that actually want to design sets and produce them though, and they are the ones that need to do something about it
QWERKey-UK t1_iy0msua wrote
>I don’t have enough passion for this shit to make me want to design and produce anything.
So in other words, you seem to be passionately arguing about something you aren't very passionate about. (shrug). Maybe you just like arguing on the internet.
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>There are people that actually want to design sets and produce them though, and they are the ones that need to do something about it
So you are holding the designer responsible for all the things you don't like about group buys? How does that work exactly?
The more you say, the more it becomes obvious that you just don't know enough about all this to have a valid opinion.
My advice to you, is to just ignore group buys. You've still to explain how you personally would gain if they (group buys) disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow. How would you benefit? What do you suppose would change should that come to pass? Can you explain? Why don't you just ignore them instead of (obviously) being so angry about them?
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