Comments
zvexler t1_j16ze6c wrote
NO WAY
PrintableProfessor t1_j13r3cw wrote
If you ever buy a UHK, be prepared to pay about $600 in modifiers to get your full set. It's nuts
Whiskeysauruses t1_j16peix wrote
I generally like to support the creators of the OG sets, but if they’re going to pull shit like that, I’m getting a $25 Amazon knock off.
Incunabuli t1_j16ea4v wrote
Sheesh. Now that is an almost intentionally-difficult layout to kit. Worse than off-the-shelf gamer boards.
hamjunkied t1_j17brju wrote
Sorry for the lingo, but what’s a UHK?
circle26 t1_j17r65l wrote
Yo I got it! Ultimate Hacking Keyboard. Indeed looks to be a pain in the ass for all the non regular mods
PrintableProfessor t1_j18g9w6 wrote
It truely is a pain. I love the keyboard for the split tenting, and the small below-space switches. It's a fantastic keyboard, but the developer had a weird idea of layout. If they sold kits for it, it wouldn't be so bad, but nobody makes a UHK kit for keycaps, and the company doesn't care to pay to have them made.
brudyGuitar t1_j147iov wrote
This is one of my dream sets but dammit the pricing is bonkers given how they've broken out the kits, which seems designed to get you over a barrel.
Miguel7501 t1_j13d579 wrote
Kitting a set like that is pure evil.
sehrgut t1_j15e675 wrote
Appropriate that a specialty coffee themed set is kitted in a way that makes sense to no one but the "literati" who are prepared to lay down their lives in defense of anti-consumer pricing from an in brand.
MayAsWellStopLurking t1_j13gsb8 wrote
How so? Most novelty kits don’t include enough keycaps to replace a proper mod kit.
I_Have_A_Spaniel t1_j13tnzs wrote
And you see no issue?
MayAsWellStopLurking t1_j14mcmr wrote
I see a buyer who thought they found a good deal with alphas and novelties coming in cheap, but didn’t verify that it would have enough coverage for their somewhat popular but not universal layout (65%)
ahauser31 t1_j141d01 wrote
I certainly don't. You don't want key duplication as that makes kits more expensive - for everyone, not just for the few people that want that. Same reason why numpad are sold separately, or international keys.
Creative-Push-6508 t1_j14eun1 wrote
Do you genuinely think it costs them that much to make it? It would cost the company like 2 dollars a set to put in the extra caps
liiinder t1_j153w7m wrote
Novelities cost way more and to have those included... Nah.
But sure, it doesn't cost that much more extra for a full set of regular keycaps that the factories have molds for but then the sets would still go for alot. They would just never sell a full keycap set for the price of Alphas.
ahauser31 t1_j14gqc0 wrote
Manufacturing costs and price the manufacturer charges are not the same. I know from multiple discussions with designers that it's a delicate balance that needs to be struck with kitting, so price for the consumer is good, MOQs are reachable and vendors make enough profit that it's worth it for them. Adding keys that almost no one needs just makes the sets less attractive to the stakeholders. That's why Mac support keys are usually a separate kit (if there is support at all) even though those 5 keys or so could have been put into a base kit / mod kit
Grimmace696 t1_j13q06u wrote
That's unfortunate. Always check the sizes included in sets. That said, maybe you can do a different build with what you have.
Random_Name_3001 t1_j15sho9 wrote
The whole community needs to stop giving into these ridiculous pricing schemes.
identikitten t1_j14mf66 wrote
I absolutely love this set but will never buy it because of how the sets are separated and overpriced.
Could you manage with the "specialties" set instead of the TKL? It's less than half price of the TKL set and comes with a bunch of modifiers.
theuberschnitzel t1_j15zy1d wrote
no sadly they need 1.5u r2 for tab, unlesss they are fine with mismatched rows
phanviet t1_j17743q wrote
gantork t1_j14ncqj wrote
I'm the designer, wanted to clarify a few things since people seem to think this kitting is anti consumer and designed to make you spend more, while it's actually the opposite.
The alphas are split from the TKL mods so people that don't need standard mods don't have to buy a ton of keycaps they don't need, they can just get alphas + ergo kit for example. And there's no price difference, if it was one big base kit with alphas and tkl mods it would cost the same in total, just would be less flexible.
Apart from that the novelties kit is just that, novelties, is not supposed to fill out your modifiers and if I included those extra keys, again most people would be paying for keys they don't need.
inhumantsar t1_j14vf7e wrote
I get what you're saying and as an ortho-ergo user, I appreciate it.
That said, the flip side is that nearly everyone needs Enter, Tab, 2 Shift keys and Backspace.
Those core keys in their standard sizes are only available as part of a huge set containing multiple sizes for modifiers, capslock, backspace, and even Up, in addition to F-keys and everything else. IMHO this runs directly counter to your argument.
By not offering a basic set of core keys at a modest price, most customers have no choice but to pay a substantial amount for a lot of keys that they won't ever need.
gantork t1_j14z4yc wrote
The TKL kit is rather slim to be honest, I split out numpad, specialties and iso from it. Buying alphas + tkl is simple to understand (maybe not?) and it provides good coverage without wasting a lot of keys.
As you can see in this post and the comments simply splitting the alphas already got people confused, you have to find a balance between flexibility and not confusing people with a ton of options.
In any case I'm not saying the kitting couldn't be improved, but I think it's good enough and it's not anti consumer.
inhumantsar t1_j15sn60 wrote
I totally get you. It's definitely a balancing act. Not sure if you've gone thru an exercise of configuring a few keyboard types to see what the pricing looks like.
From my perspective it definitely starts to feel like a bit of a cash grab after adding 3+ different kits at $50-70+ USD each.
Eg: I've got a Moonlander and a separate numpad, so bare minimum I'd need the alpha, numpad, ergo, and ortho kits just to provide complete (actually, not quite co.plete but close enough) coverage for a total of $270USD before shipping and taxes. Kono recommends getting their 3rd party insurance for an extra $5 USD and shipping would cost $35 USD. That's $310USD before tax, which is perilously close to what I paid for the keyboard itself shipped, taxes in, nevermind the numpad.
I'm not saying you should simply lower your prices or that you don't deserve fair compensation for your (excellent) work, but I have to wonder how much opportunity cost you're eating with that kitting setup.
Is there efficiencies lost in the low volumes? Are retailers taking a big markup? What would make your life easier?
gantork t1_j15xua4 wrote
Yes I definitely know how much it costs to cover different layouts. You're looking at extras prices which are a lot more expensive than buying during GB.
I don't know what your example shows, apart from that yeah SP SA is really expensive. You're trying to cover a pretty rare layout, not sure what I could change there.
I think kitting is good, I accepted a ton of feedback from the community and some members that are very knowledgeable about kitting before I ran the GB, not sure what else I can say.
Tweetydabirdie t1_j1501ma wrote
As a Nordic language user, all I can say is nee-nee-nee-naw.
For once, I can actually buy the alphas, and an ISO or NorDe kit and use the damned key set without having to buy ridiculous kits I’ll never need.
The standard way of kitting only benefits US ANSI users, and nobody else. For once, you’re not getting benefits, so your complaining. sigh
inhumantsar t1_j154jdi wrote
> For once, I can actually buy the alphas, and an ISO or NorDe kit and use the damned key set without having to buy ridiculous kits I’ll never need.
you would also have to buy the TKL set too, with all of its duplicates and ANSI Enter key, unless Nordic keyboards don't use Tab, Backspace, or modifiers.
ForestFairyForestFun t1_j15m7on wrote
this is a case of the consumer not being informed.
no one who has built a keyboard would think that alphas + novelties would fill any custom keyboard.
consumer is mad cause consumer is ignorant, somehow that becomes the vendor or designer's problem.
no one said keycaps were cheap.
brudyGuitar t1_j15tk5m wrote
There are two rough threads here: the pricing (they certainly aren't cheap, but hey we get that) and the kitting. It would have been nice to offer just a base kit that is close to a basic usable ~65 layout. You could still offer alphas and tkl separately, but it would have been nice to just get a basic functional set. TBH, i love your design and set - everything about it, but when you start throwing the stuff into the cart suddenly you're at $180 for just a functional set. The novelties are awesome so throw that in and you're at $250 and then well, that stopped me and I bailed on the whole thing. I would have bought it if I could just get a basic functional kit and the novelties. On the flip side, people do need to watch what they're buying with keycaps to make sure they're covered. This hobby isn't cheap and there are a lot of gotchas.
andromache97 t1_j14sy71 wrote
Honestly....the people commenting and complaining about how the kitting is anti-consumer clearly know nothing about SP SA kitting and pricing.
[deleted] t1_j165w40 wrote
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NatureAndArtifice t1_j17dcsv wrote
ConcreteSnake t1_j145irn wrote
Some sets sell alphas and modifiers separately which does make sense but is also super annoying.
ahauser31 t1_j146ild wrote
It's great when there are different versions of alphas offered.. Two different colors, sublegends or not, etc etc
MayAsWellStopLurking t1_j14m0g6 wrote
Exactly. The typical assumption is that the base kit is still bought, with an extra set of alphas for full variety, but if you try and get away with skipping the mod kit that’s on you to know the limitations of the set.
jc_223 t1_j14954t wrote
gotta check that compat buddy
keebagrains t1_j14fjg6 wrote
I'm new to the hobby (2 months?) and slowly coming to understand why some people's fully customized boards end up in the 1K price range ... 😏
uchigaytana t1_j16mjaq wrote
It's not usually because of poorly thought out kitting, though. The kitting of this keycap set is just a bad/not-fully-thought-out move on Kono's part - something that I've heard is all too common with them.
(Instead, the $1k+ price tag is because people end up buying a limited-run $600+ keyboard kit, a $150 GMK set, two sets of $70+ switches for a single set of frankenswitches, a $50 cable, and an extra $50 on stabilizers, film, lube, and other extras.)
raijba t1_j176how wrote
This kitting is normal for SA sets. Some SA sets run full base kits but very frequently run them a la carte like SA Espresso did. Pretty much all Signature Plastics SA sets on Drop except SA Godspeed ran kitting like Espresso for example. Also, Kono doesn't dictate kitting on SA sets and kitting is usually agreed upon by the designer and the vendor.
By all means, we should be shitting on Kono for the prices they charge. But the kitting here was standard was standard and solid. OP just made a mistake in assuming a novelties set was meant to kit a 65% keyboard's modifiers. If he was too lazy to look up 65 modifiers sizes himself, he probably could have asked the designer in the reddit group buy thread and the designer would have told him exactly what he needed.
zvexler t1_j16zq5n wrote
GMK set? What’s that
uchigaytana t1_j17a3xd wrote
GMK is a keycap manufacturer based in Germany. They use the original Cherry keycap-making equipment to make doubleshot ABS keycap sets that are expensive, but relatively high-quality. GMK sets are popular both because of this quality, and because of their legacy as the "original" brand for premium keycaps.
[deleted] t1_j1763rw wrote
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Competitive_Ice_189 t1_j13hpe9 wrote
Another money grab
Thocc-a-block t1_j15lh38 wrote
How are you finding the colours IRL?
Some have mentioned they look somewhat “not as good” as all the rendered photos online (understandable)
They seem to look quite good in your photo.
decadentrebel t1_j15u80h wrote
Most of the pics I've seen of the finished product have been consistent in showing the poor transitioning of the gradient effect from the middle row upwards. Shame, that's the primary selling point for this set... to me, at least.
Thocc-a-block t1_j15vg6w wrote
Yes agreed, I guess lighting plays a part.
For example, here it looks fairly good.
But, the colours of the darker three and the lightest seem to be of the same gradient map, but the QWERTY row seems a different pallet somehow.
holicajolica t1_j1943mz wrote
I have this set as well and I agree, QWERTY row is kind a bit washed out compared to the other colours. I keep looking at it thinking there must've been a better colour to use instead.
Thocc-a-block t1_j1a8yn1 wrote
Yeah agreed! It really looks like there’s a colour that would make a perfect gradient, and they haven’t chosen it
Cloverfrost_ t1_j164cwg wrote
Just mounted mine yesterday. Yes, I definitely noticed this issue. From the top down, the colours lean orange, then pink, then orange then pink (or more neutral). The values seem fine, but the hues are slightly off.
I imagine colour matching for a set like this would be very difficult. I think a lot of people would be fine with it, but I know a lot of people in this hobby are very tuned in to colours. And it's not as bad as some "gradient" sets I've seen that some consumers have still been happy with.
I'm still going to enjoy it a lot. Whether I believe in my heart that this is really up to standard for the $300 I paid for it is a bit of a different story. Overall, still glad I bought it.
Thocc-a-block t1_j176oi2 wrote
Yep! Looks that way from the non rendered photos I’ve seen.
In saying this it’s still a really cool set.
But yes, expensive!
malignantnarcissism_ t1_j16s073 wrote
I fucking hate that scammy shit. They're tiny pieces of plastic-- we way overpay for GMK and other higher quality sets and the add on kits are a fucking scam.
I'm only off a few keys on my 80082 kit and I'm trying to hold out until I lose interest in the hobby... I don't want to pay another $40 for four keycaps.
shoe465 t1_j144nds wrote
That sucks! But nice Jelly Key Artisan!
ajp10304 t1_j15o6fj wrote
Hang on, when did these start shipping? I ordered some from mykeyboard.eu in May 2021 and completely forgot about it!
Bjarcore t1_j192knk wrote
Mailed MyKeyboard a xouple of times. The keys was supposed to ship q2. Mailed MyKeyboard in q3 and they said wait until q4. Mailed them beginning of December and they asked for a bit more patience.
We will see when they arrive.
ajp10304 t1_j194kf5 wrote
Ah right. I emailed them last night. Not received a response yet though.
Bjarcore t1_j1din7x wrote
Just got a DHL push message from Tarpit bvba. When Googleling then it looks like it is MyKeyboard. So it could be on its way! 😎
ajp10304 t1_j1dkbvj wrote
Oh! Fingers crossed then!
Bjarcore t1_j2d4uko wrote
Just received them! They look good but not nearly as warm in the colour tone as I was expecting. Not dissspointed though.
ajp10304 t1_j2d5m9p wrote
Oh cool! They didn't even bother replying to my email yet. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt as it's the Christmas period. Maybe something will happen soon. Thanks for the update. Much appreciated. Enjoy the set.
bansheeodannan t1_j15qgwe wrote
Try your luck on r/mechmarket maybe someone there is selling
redkeeb t1_j14gd41 wrote
It can be easy to miss.
I tried using a set that didnt have a 2.00U shift in it and only found out at the end as it was the last key and I became momentarily confused as to why it wouldnt fit :)
SNScaidus t1_j15uuir wrote
this industry is begging to be revolutionized
YellowBreakfast t1_j16b9w5 wrote
Only $100, that's like 5 for the price of 4!
BlankShrimp42 t1_j16kdvc wrote
Main reason I didn’t buy this set. Love the looks but pieces being split up made it a no for me
phanviet t1_j17412c wrote
Leopard854 t1_j13z2h2 wrote
Was there a base kit?
ahauser31 t1_j141mfu wrote
SA is often kitted that way, same as KAT
Leopard854 t1_j142s5r wrote
So this is the fault of OP then, seeing sale sites post a photo of the kitting, it seems like he didn't pay attention to the kitting rather than a misleading sale.
ahauser31 t1_j146bje wrote
Yeah, it is OP's fault. I understand the frustration that to fill the missing keys a big set has to be bought (the mod kits are usually the most expensive sets when it's kitted that way), but kitting is always a compromise, not really a way around it.
harosene t1_j15si32 wrote
Yup. Sometimes i see keycaps for like 30$ and itd only a few keys. And the modifiers are another set. You gotta be careful
WestMagazine1194 t1_j16bjml wrote
Sad story bruh :(
El3ctr1c4l t1_j16dw6h wrote
Somehow, that's been the reason why I've been pushed to NK and other Cherry profile sets.
Less fuss out of the box.
I understand the options. But sometimes you just want simplicity.
SnackFactory t1_j16ncjt wrote
Looks like you're just going to have to buy a new TKL.
Huffer13 t1_j16ue5v wrote
This is the kind of stupid that means I'll never support a GB. Seriously.
Ooslnek t1_j17322p wrote
Criminal
trimix4work t1_j17xoyg wrote
oh thaaaaat is just bullshit
Corvideous t1_j18123p wrote
Thanks for the info. Knowing is half the battle.
lucasblack22 t1_j2af39o wrote
Pricing is nuts on these sets. But there’s a flash sale today which helps a little. Good luck
Chibikyu t1_j15i2cq wrote
Can we all send u one dollar and boom a hundred people do it and ur chillin
squickley t1_j16d4bg wrote
I honestly think a ton of people in this hobby would save a lot by buying a decent laser and/or dye sub gear, then customizing from blanks.
kyeblue t1_j15tsom wrote
just return the key sets
lifeisaburrito t1_j143mt7 wrote
you're complaining about your own stupidity?
cormor-ant t1_j15h9kk wrote
No reason to insult OP. It’s an easy mistake to make for someone who hasn’t bought keycaps that have been kitted out like this. Remember, a huge majority of people purchase full keycap sets. Yes, it’s important to double check your keyboard to make sure you’re getting everything you need and that it all fits. But there’s no need to make someone feel bad about making an honest mistake. We were all learning new things about the hobby at some point (and we’ve probably all made purchases we regret or that were not as informed as they could have been). Ease up.
[deleted] t1_j15tir8 wrote
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lifeisaburrito t1_j1ay0d1 wrote
Mate, OP's post history suggest they've been in this hobby at least a year. If you spent a year and didn't learn how to get right key caps from a vendor that clearly lays out unit sizes on each keycap - it's on you. Coddling people who farm for karma like is not necessary.
Fightmilk87 t1_j13u10r wrote
Damn, thats ridiculous
Saltifaction t1_j14j01x wrote
What a rip of
Yoosulis t1_j1437e8 wrote
Damn you Kono!!!
bstag t1_j13pv0v wrote
250-dollar key cap set.