Novelkeys - Poor Customer Service

Submitted by k4zie t3_zx1oac in MechanicalKeyboards

Got an NK87 as a gift from my GF for xmas. Put it together, period didnt register, reached out to them for support and right off the bat, the blaming game started :|

TLDR: If you purchase anything from them, you will be blamed for any socket issues. Go out of your way to both check the socket solder and jump them all prior to inserting a single switch. Otherwise you will be in the same boat as I.

For those interested -

This all turned into a back and forth of pictures being asked and sent, pliers being used to check if the socket is loose, to asking me to solder their product and repair it. All while constantly having them insist that the blame was my insertion of a switch.

The kail hotswap socket, was not actually making contact with the solder point - the soldering looked like it never adhered to the socket. If you guys have ever popped a socket, its pretty obvious when its popped.

At the end, this took my gf having to do a back and forth with them since she is the one who purchased the keyboard, them continuing to push the blame on us and offering to repair it at our cost.

Just an absolute dissapointment for customer service. It was either pay more money for a part that honestly looked like it was soldered incorrectly or be left with a paperweight.

Ive never had an exchange with a company that treats their product like a brittle piece of glass, not even trying to offer an exchange of the PCB. Everything is at your cost.

In the end my gf got fed up, let them know she would be doing a chargeback and they miraculously made an "exception" and are allowing her to return the board for a full refund - while still blaming me.

Novelkeys is off my list. Others experiences may be different, but if youre a first time buyer, please be careful.

Happy New Years Ya'll :D

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mgsickler t1_j1yvzv1 wrote

Hi there,

I am sorry that you weren't happy with the support you received. I went over and checked the support logs out on this ticket, and stand with how we handled the decision.

To show the full story I am also going to share a picture you uploaded, with some red circles to show the damage caused by inserting a switch incorrectly.

Image here

With this picture, you can see 4 times that the switch pin caught the hotswap socket when being inserted. This can be caused by inserting the switch at an angle, or with bent pins. Sometimes when enough force is applied you will pop a socket.

This can cause two things:

  • The entire solder pad is ripped off. (This is the worst case as it will involve gluing the socket back on, and using a jumper wire)
  • The socket will pop off the solder pad. (This is the best case as it is very easy to repair).

In the case of yours, it was actually the easier of the two. A simple heating up of the solder with the socket slightly pushed will fix an issue like this. Our CS rep helped explain how to fix it, and actually even offered to help repair this for you if you weren't comfortable.

Popping a socket is not something that is covered by warranty, and thats why we have our how to guide (index card with a scannable QR code) included in all the NK65's and NK87's, along with a link on our website. I definitely understand that its frustrating to have a build go wrong and I am sorry that happened to you. However, I stand with our support, as it was polite, courteous, and even went as far to do the repair ourselves for you if you werent comfortable.

Take care, and happy holidays.

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Dull-Instance7913 t1_j1yx3bq wrote

Now that I see this I understand novelkeys prospective and believe they did the right thing

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NightTheBear t1_j1yyra9 wrote

Agreed. Seems like an unfortunate mistake and this person isn't happy that they aren't getting their way, decided trying to make NK look bad rather than owning up to their mistake was the better option

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ahauser31 t1_j1z0cb8 wrote

Thanks for the picture you linked. There are always two sides to a story, and it's clearly user error here that led to the damaged socket

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POPNWAFFLES t1_j1z7l8m wrote

Needs to be higher, any post with hearsay and no pictures should be super suspicious

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elmurfudd t1_j1z4oju wrote

pics worth a thousand words bought from u many many times ( have the OG stickers to prove it) and never had an issue with CS

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SpecificAd5166 t1_j1z53o0 wrote

Now that I've seen it from NK's perspective I can see why they were adamant about it being the user's fault. They brought their receipts.

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jishjash t1_j1zaluu wrote

Yeah, sorry OP but seems like a user error all the way. No vendor is without error but I've had nothing but great experiences with NovelKeys and appreciate them being responsive here as well.

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k4zie OP t1_j1zfoas wrote

I get why you stand by your decision. It's in your interest, especially here.

The reason for the frustration should be obvious. We were left no choice but to pay you more money for a repair, or be left with something that doesn't work. Exactly how does that sound like you are treating a customer well?

Now, where I'm at fault for sure, is by not taking pics of every socket, zoomed in, for imperfections. Here are two of the back of the PCB since we are showing pictures:

https://preview.redd.it/jup4jxj58p8a1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94197b5b99235c842ce5edbfa91f7f5a87141767

That end with my poorly drawn arrow, turned out to not be actually attached to the solder. Looks like it is, but turns out it wasn't after inspecting it. Looks just like the rest of them on the back.

Now since you went through the logs, you honestly think it's ok to put the blame on your customer from the first email?

I get it, based on what you see, you are making the claim that Im at fault. I honestly wish I had taken pics of everything just to see if every socket is free of Knicks or imperfections.

For me, how this was handled was just poor. Most other companies would have handled this differently, because frankly, they have. And the fact that despite the people that actually post, a lot may have already gone through this experience.

At the end of the day, you did agree to a full refund, so we can part ways cordially. It's just unfortunate that it was handled so poorly because I honestly thought you guys were a stand up company.

I'm just warning people to be careful, because everything will be scrutinized and I don't want others to have the same experience.

−29

ahauser31 t1_j1zmexr wrote

You seem to have sent them a picture of a socket damaged by an improperly inserted switch. I don't know what you expected, but that the vendor thinks this was your fault is not really a surprise. I can't tell from the picture you posted if the socket you highlighted is properly soldered or not - but be it as it may, to post a PSA about the vendor that seems to me to be in the right here wasn't the best way to go about this (don't get me wrong, as a fellow consumer I would love if vendors replaced PCBs no questions asked... But they actually need to make money, and replacing stuff for free that the customer broke is not how that is done)

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k4zie OP t1_j1zn45v wrote

That's fair, because I realize you're an outside party seeing all this.

Let me ask you though, because I'm clarifying this at the core of my post - should vendors automatically push blame on their customer from the start?

That's ultimately what happened here. Pics definitely help, especially on a public forum. But the sole purpose of this is to warm others so the back and forth with the vendor doesn't go in this direction like it did with me.

If their strategy is to blame the customer first, I'm just warning others to check everything to protect themselves.

−17

Deadbolt11 t1_j1zpkku wrote

It's a numbers game with a hotswap board.

Which do you think is more likely out of the thousands of pcb's they push out.

1)The PCB is defective

2)The user popped a socket out

At some point you do have to protect your business interests and can't give out a free pcb because the customer damaged one.

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k4zie OP t1_j1zqjri wrote

Fair from a business perspective.

If #1 ends up being the issue, and someone reaches out for support and is automatically accused of #2, is that proper customer service though?

I get a vendors perspective. That does not mean they should automatically treat their customers like the only outcome is #2. That's the problem.

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Deadbolt11 t1_j1zqswg wrote

Were they right though?

You don't design customer service scripts for the 3% scenario, you design them for the 97% and course correct for the 3%.

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k4zie OP t1_j1zrfq1 wrote

I don't know honestly. They are adamant they are. I'm not so sure. And without a time machine I can't be 100% certain.

Scripts are absolutely for the 97%. The 3% are the ones who make noise. But the ones who ultimately brand you are the ones who fall through the cracks, and if you know anything about statistics in sales, you know that's due to poor customer handling.

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_Jimboop_ t1_j1zvq64 wrote

This doesn’t make sense, why are you dying on this hill

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k4zie OP t1_j1zyao4 wrote

Not dying on this hill my friend, just clarifying wacky misinterpretations of what I posted. Some fanboys are taking it way too seriously. I'm just hoping it helps others.

−1

andromache97 t1_j1zzpi4 wrote

the helpful advice you should be giving others is to test their PCBs before inserting switches

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Deadbolt11 t1_j1ztasr wrote

> I don't know honestly. They are adamant they are. I'm not so sure. And without a time machine I can't be 100% certain.

Judging by the pictures they posted vs your account of events, I can't be 100% certain, but I can feel comfortable closer to 95% certain. I was very careful with my last hotswap board and still managed to pop a socket loose.

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k4zie OP t1_j1zu26u wrote

Let's assume you are right in your estimate. All of this being judged from a picture and not actually fully testing the socket or having prove of it's condition prior to unboxing.

Do you take that remaining 5%, cast it out and automatically assign blame?

Point is, if the outcome is 100% assignment of blame, in a situation - as you stated - that is 95% certain from a visual inspection - how exactly is that logical?

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Deadbolt11 t1_j1zua0v wrote

I was being kind in saying 95%. Hotswap sockets don't get dents in the plastic on top by magic.

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k4zie OP t1_j1zvhmf wrote

Are you also going to tell me that all sockets don't have dents / imperfections unless a switch has been inserted?

Listen, I'm not trying to argue here. You have your opinion and I respect that.

Your logic doesn't justify my being accused of fault with no other recourse. That isn't fair and it justifies warning others of this.

−1

Deadbolt11 t1_j1zw867 wrote

Saying they gave you "no other recourse" is being a tad bit dishonest. They let you know how to fix it, they offered to fix it(at your cost, as while they can't prove you popped the socket, the images look like ya did) and ultimately accepted your return when you threatened the nuclear option.

If you'd have had clear pictures with the socket having no solder on it at all or a socket showing no signs of damage I'd agree, they are being unreasonable, but I haven't seen a picture to that as of yet.

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k4zie OP t1_j1zxwg9 wrote

I use no other recourse because of the following:

My gf got this during the black Friday sale. They have a short 15 day return window. I got it for Xmas. So I can't return it per their policy.

They put the blame on me from the start. I got what was meant to be a new, fully working keyboard. But since the assumption was that it can only be my fault, to get it functional, I either had to attempt to repair it myself or give them money to do so.

Let me ask you, if you buy a car, take it home and it doesn't turn on the next day - do you fix it yourself or pay the dealer to fix it? Nope, you use the warranty. And the dealer won't tell you that X, Y, or C is automatically your fault because you drove it.

I understand my analogy is not completely parallel but it illustrates my point.

The nature of selling a hot swap board is to insert switches. But the policy should not be to not cover any instance of insertion or anything about insertion when that's what the board is designed for.

Are most issues due to user error, yep, they probably are. But are All User error without any reasonable explanation? No they are not, so don't treat your customers like that.

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Deadbolt11 t1_j2003k5 wrote

> My gf got this during the black Friday sale. They have a short 15 day return window. I got it for Xmas. So I can't return it per their policy.

This isn't their fault.

>Let me ask you, if you buy a car, take it home and it doesn't turn on the next day - do you fix it yourself or pay the dealer to fix it? Nope, you use the warranty. And the dealer won't tell you that X, Y, or C is automatically your fault because you drove it.

This isn't an apples to apples comparison. I know you say your analogy isn't parallel but it doesn't illustrate your point. If you take the car home and put new rims on it and over tighten a lug nut onto the stud, are you going to take it back to the dealer and say it's their fault?

>The nature of selling a hot swap board is to insert switches. But the policy should not be to not cover any instance of insertion or anything about insertion when that's what the board is designed for.

Agree to disagree, the nature of hot swaps boards is that they are fragile. If I was a vendor selling hot swap pcbs, I'd set the policy the exact same.

>Are most issues due to user error, yep, they probably are. But are All User error without any reasonable explanation? No they are not, so don't treat your customers like that.

This I can agree with, however asking a company to cover user error is a lot. I wouldn't expect any company to bend over backwards for me in the case of user error.

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k4zie OP t1_j201006 wrote

I wasn't asking them to cover the user error, certainly not in a forceful way. I made that suggestion because other vendors have done that in the past. They want their product back. So I offered to exchange it.

I can see that you are very determined in just defending their position, and that's fine. But if you're really being objective, why does the fact that they acted as if it could ONLY be my fault not resonate with you?

As I said to someone else a minute ago, that's the sole reason I posted this. A vendor should not treat their customers like they can only be at fault. Do you honestly think that's unreasonable?

−1

Deadbolt11 t1_j201wh5 wrote

>I made that suggestion because other vendors have done that in the past.

So because company x does y, every company should do y?

>I can see that you are very determined in just defending their position, and that's fine. But if you're really being objective, why does the fact that they acted as if it could ONLY be my fault not resonate with you?

I am being objective based on the evidence available, you're seeing this through very rose colored glasses. You're saying they did x, you're saying they did y, they showed the picture you sent, which very clearly shows a pin stabbed that plastic. You haven't even shown us the exchanges with customer support. We can't be objective as you haven't given us anything to be objective with, we only have your side of the story fed through your bias.

>As I said to someone else a minute ago, that's the sole reason I posted this. A vendor should not treat their customers like they can only be at fault. Do you honestly think that's unreasonable?

You haven't posted anything that supports this statement. Not a screenshot, not a sentence.

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okayzimbabwe t1_j206zca wrote

Guaranteed the communication with support is less than desireable to share publicly lmao

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k4zie OP t1_j202aup wrote

Ok, you're not being objective. You're just pushing back on me based on assumptions.

Have a good one 👍

−1

Deadbolt11 t1_j202fkr wrote

>Ok, you're not being objective. You're just pushing back on me based on assumptions.

Neither are you

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darren_meier t1_j22orjm wrote

Jesus, dude. Maybe just acknowledge that you were wrong? This whole moving the goalposts with regard to NK supposedly being the villain thing is not saving you any face, it's just making you look worse. You were in the wrong, made an accusatory post that was inaccurate, then got stunted when they showed up with the receipts. We all make mistakes, but you're making it so much worse by making up new excuses why they're supposedly the bad guys here. You got your refund, even though it wasn't warranted. Let it go.

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hyseung t1_j1yabxm wrote

Please people for the love of all things holy, check your PCB before you do anything with it. This isn't JUST to protect you from vendors in the event your PCB is faulty. It's also to save you from completing a build (worse with solder, especially mill max) and realizing after troubleshooting that your PCB is a dud.

I recently had a Derivative PCB that was acting funny after I put it together. You know what the saving grace was? That the PCB was fine during testing. All the other troubleshooting steps came AFTER since I knew where to start. I didn't damage any pads or traces, daughterboard/JST cable swap didn't fix the issue, and I used flux for the first time. Ultimately found that flux got onto a diode and pulled some solder onto it.

Checking your PCB prior will allow you to troubleshoot and save you a lot of stress, headache, grief, effort, and time.

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Qriun t1_j1yjktz wrote

This is truly step one in any build.

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k4zie OP t1_j1zgivt wrote

You're totally right. And the crappy thing is I know it. After you build enough of these, you just get in a routine and don't check every little thing. Time to reset that build process for me!

−6

Suspicious_Student_6 t1_j1zcbu3 wrote

You are in the wrong OP. I am sorry for Novelkeys having to go through this frustrating experience... I have popped a socket myself and based on the photos that they provided (you didn't provide us any photos) it is very clear that you were the one that broke your PCB.

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[deleted] t1_j1y7dvt wrote

[deleted]

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k4zie OP t1_j1y8n3h wrote

I've never used them before but I'm definitely going to remember. KBDfans has always been really good for me, as well as Demkeebs and Prevail.

It's unfortunate when businesses don't actually care about their customers.

−9

LASERman71 t1_j1z1y04 wrote

It's more unfortunate when customer do not accept his fault regardless of the evidence and make awful conclusions. I wrote this after seeing the evidence provided.

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GunplaAddict t1_j1yaliq wrote

sorry for this experience.

when I started in this hobby, i was taught to test the pcb first before building.

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Schievel1 t1_j1z5rhy wrote

How do you do that? Check continuity for everything?

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CtrlAusDel t1_j1z94qg wrote

Just plug it in and use a pair of tweezers to link the sockets. When they’re good to go, the press will register on whatever software you’re using.

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Schievel1 t1_j1zc8er wrote

But that means you have to solder an Arduino or whatever to it first

−2

CtrlAusDel t1_j1zceve wrote

You don’t have to solder anything on a PCB before testing it. Just plug it in and bridge the sockets with tweezers.

Edit: I guess some of the barebones builds that are seen in the community will often need soldering prior to testing (diodes, etc.), but these are not common and the majority of keyboard PCBs can be tested without the need to solder.

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ReaperofFish t1_j1zd9ne wrote

For most PCBs, the controller and resistors are already soldered on. Just plug the PCB into your computer's USB port and got to keyboardtester.com or similar and bridge each set of pins. When you press a switch, the leafs make contact and bridge the connection. So bridging the pin sockets with a metal tweezers is doing the same thing.

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Schievel1 t1_j1zpvw0 wrote

Oh ok I didn’t know they come with electronics preinstalled

−1

Phildilf t1_j1z5apu wrote

I was going to say, "pics or I don't believe you". But, it's a good thing NK is active on here. It absolutely looks like you flubbed up the socket by repeatedly missing it. The pins on a switch have made me bleed before, so stabbing a delicate socket numerous times could do the trick.

It sucks that it's messed up, but what's more messed up is bashing a credible company on Reddit for your own wrong-doing.

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k4zie OP t1_j1zgu14 wrote

I didn't add pics at first because the intention was not to come here and try and prove them wrong. It was just to share my experience with them and warn others what to do in detail to protect themselves.

I did add a pic below due to the response from them though

−14

SdoRy_ t1_j20lq01 wrote

You're not warning others, you're acting in bad faith because you can't accept the reality that you damaged your own product, and instead now try to shift it to be the company's responsibility.

You say NK is blaming you unjustified - but let's be real here for a second: You didn't check the PCB before building, and the pictures clearly show damage to the PCB from inserting switches wrongly. How can you be so certain that it wasn't your fault? Why are you so quick to put the finger on NK? As others have said, it's extremely rare that a PCB leaves a facility faulty, it's even rarer that the socket in question happens to have damage marks that correspond to wrong switch insertion. So what do you think is more likely: That somehow a reputable company like NK tries to sell a reused PCB that was damaged and not checked by them before reselling, and that happened to go to that one person who also doesn't check his PCB before building, or that you just fucked up and damaged the PCB yourself? Ima go with the second option 100 out of 100 times. So stop crying and victimizing yourself like you got screwed over; you didn't, and I feel genuinely sorry for NK for having to deal with people like you.

You are the reason why I despise working with customers directly in any type or form. And judging by how the community is reacting when it is not shying away of calling out bad companies you should reevaluate your stance, accept the fact that you fucked up and learn 1) to check PCBs before building and 2) how to insert switches correctly.

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JNOV12b6 t1_j1yu35p wrote

I’m not diminishing your experience but I’ve only had good interactions with their customer service, but never for a defective product (missing order items and address changes). Sorry you went through this.

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k4zie OP t1_j1zk3us wrote

Yeah that's the thing. They really do seem polite - just that in my case it was polite while assigning blame. Blaming me with a smile I guess lol - it just doesn't leave a good impression, especially as a first time customer.

I do wonder what people's experience actually is with them when they have had issues with any of the sockets.

−7

AYYYdrian198 t1_j1y7het wrote

Damn, sorry this happened to you op, freaking frustrating...

One thing for sure, I started the habit of recording my entire unboxing every time I receive a new product, all the way to testing the pcb and checking the sockets because I'm scared of stuff like this

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k4zie OP t1_j1y8qd1 wrote

Dude, at one point I may have thought that's going overboard, but now...😅

−5

AYYYdrian198 t1_j1y9hws wrote

Yeah, I'd even start with recording the box it came with to show that it hasn't been opened or tampered with before I actually cut the tape open lol

Edit: forgot to add that I'd spin the box around to show the tapes are all still sealed and secured haha

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okayzimbabwe t1_j206rxi wrote

Best read on this sub in awhile, I consumed much popcorn.

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jagspetdog t1_j1ycs3n wrote

At the end of the day, the companies involved in keyboards are still novices in understanding how to appropriately communicate with their consumers (and are still absolutely horrendous in other issues [e.g., avoiding damaging consumer trust through loot-boxes]).

In keebs - you should never build without checking the PCB. Because of the burden of proof that companies in keyboards have, it is in your best interest to record opening boxes when they arrive to verify condition & also test the PCB or other aspects. Keyboard companies WILL deflect to avoid accountability. Novelkeys, while good in some cases, is particularly known for this (e.g., when products arrive that aren't of expectation, they just hit ya with the copium).

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ghostpartition t1_j1zbfm3 wrote

Hey at least it's fixable and they offered to fix it! MODE sent me a scuffed 65 with a mirror finished bottom with the metal bumped out on it (as if the CNC machine pushed too far in when making the screw ports for the daughter board) and then blamed me for it and said buy another one lmao. Will never buy from them again. NK are good people. Sorry homie!

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Alex_Hanlin t1_j20yuwg wrote

i'm so glad novelkeys commented because i've only ever had fantastic interactions with them

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tlxxxsracer t1_j1yybp1 wrote

Also, always insert switches while holding the hot swap socket from the back or with it laying on a hard surface. This will prevent any from popping off the pcb

1

Omnias-42 t1_j1z7xix wrote

It appears the issue has been sorted. For the full vendor response, see below:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/zx1oac/novelkeys_poor_customer_service/j1yvzv1/

As others in the thread recommended, you should still inspect your PCB before assembly and test the functionality before soldering or installing switches in case you get a defect, however, hotswap sockets, which convenient, can be damaged if the switch pins are not straight.

1

k4zie OP t1_j1zg9dv wrote

Hey, for fairness sake - the issue was not sorted. They replied with their side, which is fair - but assuming that their side is just automatically correct is not. It's a discussion, which is what I was hoping to have.

−6

Omnias-42 t1_j1zgfcx wrote

Do you have receipts to rebut their statements?

When you made your claims, the only party that has provided concrete evidence was the vendor. If you’re going to make serious accusations, you need to be able to back that up.

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k4zie OP t1_j1zhiyf wrote

Hey there, I did reply to his feedback. And I added a pic as well from my original email exchange with them.

Just to be clear so people don't misinterpret, I'm not accusing them of trying to rip me off. I'm sharing my poor experience of being automatically blamed for damage - it's why I added the pic of the socket that looks soldered but isn't.

As I stated in my reply, I should have taken pics of every socket for imperfections or anomalies so I'm not automatically blamed - which is the issue at hand.

I'm just warning others so they can take extra steps and make sure this doesn't happen to them if they have issues.

Exactly what receipts do you need to satisfy my discussion?

−4

Omnias-42 t1_j1zigfb wrote

If the two parties are making conflicting claims, then proof of the actual discussion that took place along with the evidence that was presented to them is relevant.

Some vendors are generally known for having poor customer service and quality control, and others are generally reputable.

However, mistakes can happen from miscommunication and incomplete information. Which is why it is also important to determine if something was an isolated incident or a pattern of behaviour, and whether steps were taken to remedy the situation.

3

k4zie OP t1_j1zj8h8 wrote

I agree with you completely. From an outside perspective this can easily be seen as a he said / she said situation.

My grievance was with the automatic assumption that it's my fault. And the only real way to actually prove that is to go back in time, never insert a switch, and check every socket for loose contacts or imperfections which I did not.

Automatically assigning fault, isn't fair - that's at the core of this discussion. It's how I was treated so I posted about it, with a warning to future buyers, who based on my experience, will be accused in the same manner.

I don't feel it's unfair to have done that, though obviously that's my opinion 😋 - but to that point, I don't feel it's misleading.

−2

jishjash t1_j1ztsgl wrote

>My grievance was with the automatic assumption that it's my fault.

That goes both ways though. It's also not fair to automatically assume it's their fault

5

k4zie OP t1_j1zuzna wrote

I didn't automatically assume it was their fault. They, however, did.

In my exchange with them, I even asked / requested that I could send them the PCB in exchange for one that is fully functional. But their position was we can't help you because it's your fault.

Their only offer for repair was at my cost while re-enforcing that it's due to my mishandling it.

They made absolutely no effort in this regard. Without exaggerating, my initial email said "the key doesn't register" - no pics, nothing. Just that.

Their response immediately was that this is due to a bad insertion and popped socket and pushed that from the start.

So no, I didn't assume anything. They did.

−1

andromache97 t1_j1zz3a8 wrote

And based on the pic it turns out they were right lol

9

jishjash t1_j1zzdj3 wrote

Not saying you assumed it was their fault. I'm saying that we, as other community members, can't assume that they are at fault either. But to play the devil's advocate...

While it may feel unfair that they immediately placed blame on you, users popping their hotswap sockets is a common problem. Forget this vendor for a second and think of vendors broadly. The first step in addressing a problem is triaging the issue. This hobby is all about building your own stuff, and so the first place to start is to triage what you as the user did with the product in hand. If your interactions afterward were unsatisfactory, I can take that at face value. But I don't buy that they were necessarily blaming you. It's more so that you are in a do-it-yourself hobby and they need to understand what you did first.

5

k4zie OP t1_j201ths wrote

I don't disagree with you at all. I truly do understand their perspective. It's why I love this hobby and support quite a few of them. Take KBDfans for instance. They aren't even local if you're in the states, but in all my interactions with them over the last 5 years they haven't once led with "it's your fault".

My grievance is with the fact that Novelkeys did. Perhaps that's just their customer service culture, I'm really not sure. I just don't like that type of exchange with a vendor, and being the first time I've dealt with them it just leaves a really poor impression

−3

jishjash t1_j20906v wrote

I think you're taking it too personally.

As previously noted, popping hotswap sockets is common. There's a reason they've posted a video on how to insert switches, why it's noted in the assembly card that comes with the board and is called out in the build guide. Or look at any other vendor's build guides and they all warn about popping hotswap sockets. It's not because of the quality of the products but because it is a very common mistake. So if I were a vendor and a customer came to me that a key wasn't working in a hotswap board, it's not crazy to think that the first place to start is asking if they inserted their switches properly.

To me this seems like nothing more than them starting with one of the most common problems with non-functioning keys on a hotswap board (improper switch installation) and then going from there. They're not blaming you out of the gate but are just going through the process of elimination with one of the most common causes for this issue. I own 4 NK87s and an NK65 and from multiple production versions and never had an issue with a hotswap socket not being properly sodered.

Sorry they're not the vendor for you because I really do like them. Best wishes on all your future builds and hopefully you don't have more customer support issues like this in the future!

4

redkeeb t1_j1zl0sl wrote

Im sorry OP the Kailhs do pop off every once and a while if your not careful thats just what they do, even more so if you dont have the PCB on a flat surface (I see that recommended but I dont usually do that but I know I would be at fault if one pops off).

1

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0

ryguy_pieguy t1_j21ukcc wrote

I had the same problem with my keychron Q3, I put it together and the f2 key wouldn’t register, as well as my 7 key kept being a little weird. Keychron played the blame game for a week before I gave up

0

cosmo100292 t1_j1z72rc wrote

This absolutely sucks im sorry you have to go through this. After going through many hot swap boards i have only had issues with cheap aliexpress PCBs. In the end all i had to do was solder the pads since they either had very minimal solder or sometimes none on a pad at all which it sounds like you had. If you want id be more than happy to fix that for free. DM me.

−4

Leopard854 t1_j1yschs wrote

For people saying "test your PCB", you're right and wrong.

This isn't a GB product by some unreputable person/company, this is a very well known company selling a fully fleshed out product, there isn't a room for a PCB being "possibly" faulty.

On top of that their own guide does not mention testing the PCB, probably for the same reason above.

Edit: What are you downvoting me for? He didn’t read the manual and damaged the socket, testing the PCB wouldn’t have prevented this post.

−7

ahauser31 t1_j1z038h wrote

It's more about having evidence. Once you start soldering or inserting switches in HS sockets, you basically "void" your warranty - I'd say 9 times out of 10, damaged PCBs are a result of user error, and 9 of 9 of those users will claim that it arrived this way and that the board must have been faulty from the beginning. Vendors probably heard all kind of stories before and most don't replace PCBs that customers damaged. So checking that the PCB is working properly before you mess with it is the only thing that will get your board replaced if it is actually faulty (QC slip up, transport damage, whatever)

14

Leopard854 t1_j1z40iz wrote

I agree that it’s the best approach to make sure you have no issues but then again, how you can prove you didn’t assemble it and just took it apart.

Yes some plates (mostly metal with coating) will have scratch marks, but you can carefully disassemble the board and they can’t prove you assembled it.

My KBD67 Lite for example doesn’t show scratch marks even though I use metal switch puller.

Damaged socket will have signs like a mark of the pin pushing it.

So either OP damaged the board and complaining because he didn’t read the manual (and showing us 1 side), or NK refused to replace a faulty product on the grounds that other customers usually damage it this way.

−1

NightTheBear t1_j1z73bm wrote

Seems like OP damaged the board during switch install. Which hey, accidents happen. But own up to it, don't try and slander a company because you caused the issue and don't want to pay for a replacement, or tell someone who got you a gift you broke it and can't use it.

8

Leopard854 t1_j1zt0pi wrote

Yeah makes sense, as I’ve said he damaged it and provided 1 side of the story.

2

k4zie OP t1_j1ztbqg wrote

There is no slander taking place here. Stating that I had a bad customer service experience due to being automatically assigned fault isn't unreasonable.

0

NightTheBear t1_j1zv4vc wrote

Jumping on "if you buy anything and there's a problem, they will tell you that you're to blame and won't help you" is factually incorrect and is telling about what you wanted out of this. If you had a bad experience, you aren't writing this as a "hey, fyi, this was my experience", you're writing it, painting yourself an innocent victim and then sidestepping their evidence with "well that's just like you're opinion man" to try and be faultless.

A summary of your experience should have been "I broke my pcb, and after a back and forth with CS for NovelKeys, they agreed to a refund even though the product wasn't defective and it was a result of handling/treatment". Maybe you aren't happy with how much back and forth you had, or some delays in communication - that's fair.

Honestly, I don't think you expected NK to have a presence here and now you're are doing a soft about-face to try and diminish the shit coming your way. No matter what, have a good one, happy everyone is moving on and (mostly) got what they wanted out of this whole debacle

7

k4zie OP t1_j1zwkb2 wrote

Unfortunately you're completely incorrect.

There is no about face. I was treated like it can only be my fault. My feedback to being treated like that is accurate. So is my advice to others. 1:1 interactions with them, resulted in my being blamed.

Now look at what you wrote as a suggestion what what I should have done:

"I broke my PCB...etc etc" - you know that how? No, actually you don't. If you want to conclude they are in the right and I'm in the wrong, that's fine. That's what these posts are for.

A counter to what I wrote based on the assumption that it can only be my fault, is exactly why I made this post.

And yeah, I knew they are active here, that's the whole point lol. If I didn't I wouldn't purposely post this on mechanical keyboards so others can see what my experience was?? Use a little logic my friend.

And for the record, I'm not badmouthing anyone. I'm sharing my bad experience with them, warning others of it, and already getting refunded. So I'm not looking for anything.

−2

NightTheBear t1_j1zyqpx wrote

You're doing the exact same thing, but to NK. Youre coming at this situation like only NK is to blame. By your own admission you didn't inspect and test PCB and functionality before you starting popping switches in. Every comment before NK responded was essentially "yeah I should checked but I didn't" and then continued to throw NK under a bus for "poor customer service". The only proof you didn't break the PCB is a belief you didn't. And a poor quality picture that "shows the socket wasn't soldered properly". Sorry, but you're a very unreliable narrator of this story.

It's cool though, as evidenced by the mods post and Mike's post, literally nothing anyone tells you will change your mind that you're a perfectly innocent party in this rather than someone who caused, and then worsened the situation. Hope you enjoy the rest of the holiday season and have a good new year.

8

k4zie OP t1_j200akr wrote

I get you are defending NK, but you're still missing the whole point. I'm not accusing them of blame. Is that honestly not clear?

I am defending the accusation of being blamed for something from the start. I consider that poor customer service.

Do you think it's ok, to automatically assign blame as your first response from support?

If they had not led with that, I would not have posted this, plain and simple. I'm not sure why you are turning this into more than what it is.

−4

NightTheBear t1_j201z13 wrote

My guy, this is just ridiculous at this point. I'm not defending NK, I've never bought anything from them, and as someone completely new the hobby, this is the first I'm hearing of them. I'm just pointing out the bullshit you're slinging.

If the dialogue was literally "hey customer service, I'm having an issue with my PCB, what do I do" "nothing because you broke it" then yeah, that's poor customer service. Until you provide screenshots showing the exact history, that didn't happen.

It is 100% more likely there was back and forth of you explaining that one socket wasn't registering anything, that everything else was working, and that you only noticed it after installing switches. They probably then asked for a picture of the suspect socket, they looked at it, saw damage to socket from you putting the switch incorrectly, and made the 100% reasonable conclusion you popped the fucking socket.

Give a rest, get off reddit, touch grass, etc.

8

LASERman71 t1_j1z4u7c wrote

We test PCBs not because it comes from "unreputable" GB but because they all made in China on mass and go on a long bumpy journey afterwards. "Very well known vendor" makes not much difference.

Checking the PCB is a staple routine for many reasons.

3

Leopard854 t1_j1zsw3f wrote

The vast majority of things are made in China, reputable companies aren’t opening Alibaba and contracting the first store they see.

Checking the PCB is a staple routine because soldering and desoldering is a major PIA, a faulty PCB HS is a minor inconveniences at best.

Not that it‘a relevant in this post because OP damaged the socket because he didn’t read the manual, testing the PCB wouldn’t have made a different.

2

LASERman71 t1_j20hikm wrote

Actually it would, assuming he got some sense in mind upon finding that previously checked PCB is not working now he should suspect himself for possibly causing it. At least, and not go all against vendor.

1

Schievel1 t1_j1z6n46 wrote

This is true. Once they sell a certain volume level companies should test the PCBs they send out. (And they do) Now keyboard PCBs are really on the easy to make side, but still this is some kind of minimum quality control as PCBs can be faulty sometimes.

2

Old-Bookkeeper-5876 t1_j1y13op wrote

Why didn’t you take 5 min of your time to fix it yourself? An 8 year old could do it himself honestly, not rocket science.

−69

k4zie OP t1_j1y1au6 wrote

Why would I fixed a faulty product when we paid for a new board in working condition? I take it you buy cars and when they are lemons, you order parts and fix it yourself even though its under warranty? lol

29

stylesuxx t1_j1ypcl9 wrote

Well, if it's just a panel I need to push in, I will do it myself, since the time I put in to fix it is in no relation to the time I waste when dealing with the whole warranty process.

Car analogies simply don't work in all cases.

I understand your frustration with a non working product, but you identified the issue and the fix was simple. I am not sure if it's worth wasting your, your girlfriends and the company time just because of principle...

2

QWERKey-UK t1_j1y1tw7 wrote

Assuming the OP has a soldering iron.

12

SpecificAd5166 t1_j1z4o81 wrote

At some point anyone working with keyboards should own a soldering iron.

2