Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

Tricky_Potatoe t1_j5xi4ip wrote

You know what else takes two years to make? 2.5 children.

89

garg4ntua t1_j5ylq8z wrote

Yeah, but you can't change switches to make them more "silent".

40

tama_gucci t1_j5zds47 wrote

Yeah I ordered a keycap set in the hospital before my wife was induced. I now have a 22 month old and no keycap set.

9

Benbenb1 t1_j5y7ol7 wrote

Why in the world do keycaps take that long to make and ship?

Like from the perspective of someone who’s mildly interested in mk, that just seems like a long ass time for some plastic.

86

Human133 OP t1_j5ycred wrote

It's ridiculous. I just wanted to try GMK keycaps. It's pretty and quality is good but nothing groundbreaking or worth the wait times.

64

Benbenb1 t1_j5ydm2h wrote

Glad you like it, ‘cause it would suck if you didn’t.

From my time as a lurker on this subreddit, I feel like seeing these waiting times for these keyboards/caps/etc are more common than usual and are pretty ridiculous imo.

13

CT-96 t1_j6081ei wrote

This hobby is really strange about this stuff. In pretty much any other niche hobby (I'm a longboarder for example), paying upfront and then waiting 2 years for fulfilment would get you boycotted and most of your orders cancelled (or just run out of business because no one ordered in the first place). You actually need to have a physical product to show people and not just a render.

11

GRSimon t1_j60mzlr wrote

Not defending it, but part of the reason is back in the day GMK never did group buys, and the idea of it happening seemed so out of reach. People on GeekHack forked out $$$ just to buy tooling to imitate GMK's Cherry font, a 'rare' now common red GMK escape key once sold for hundreds of dollars, finding GMK keycaps on Classifieds was rare.

6

Benbenb1 t1_j60knka wrote

Exactly my thoughts on this. Literally any other hobby and it just would not work.

I feel like it’s due to the fact that enough people try to justify their (respectfully) dumbass purchases, that (is also in part due to the the normalcy of this practice from companies) takes YEARS to receive.

But you know…Clickity clack. And those THOCK key caps.

2

fronteir t1_j60pwos wrote

It initially started when the hobby was niche enough that groupbuys were pretty much the only way to get the factory time to do enough items to make it economical.

Nowadays it keeps happening because a) its a win for the designer/company, they get immediate payment with no risk of not selling their product if they just did it in stock b) there are still smaller designers who wouldn't be able to get their designs made without the GB model

I am hopeful that with GMK leadtimes being consistently insane, and now with KAT being blown up due to factory covid issues, that people will start to wisen up? But the FOMO in this hobby is real and its a fucking shame

11

[deleted] t1_j60nbz4 wrote

There are loads of really nice in stock sets if you don't want to wait for a group buy.

2

CT-96 t1_j60vmj5 wrote

And that's exactly what I do. I buy in stock stuff instead because that is a more consumer friendly business practice.

2

grandmoto t1_j5zuu83 wrote

Makes me feel bad hopping on the extras and getting them in 2 days

4

jh_2719 t1_j66mff0 wrote

Don't feel bad. That's the smart thing to do.

1

Gummyrabbit t1_j5ycghd wrote

Their employees built the keycaps one molecule at a time.

37

penatbater t1_j5ykn24 wrote

Color matching takes an ungodly and sometimes unreasonable amount of time. Idk if it was KAT Mizu or GMK Red Dragon that was color-matched 3 or more times, and each time it took like 3-6 months turnaround time. Plus covid. Plus something wrong happening in the factory, etc etc. Plus, idk anymore ._.

8

SpiralOutLL t1_j5zmb7t wrote

Ok, but this was a freakin R2, shouldn't color matching be already sorted out?

6

penatbater t1_j60ssss wrote

Gmk red dragon isn't r2, neither is Kat mizu afaik. Kat mizu had a diff mfg.

2

CT-96 t1_j608myl wrote

How the actual fuck does it take 3-6 months to print a keycap set and look at it to figure out if it's the right colour or not? That shit should take maybe 10 minutes after printing which itself should only take a couple hours depending on the method used.

4

penatbater t1_j60slnk wrote

Idk man. But from what I was told and what I inferred, the process basically is the creator asks for samples. Then the mfg makes them and sends to the creator. Then the creator looks at them, says that so and so color does not match their specs, the font is too weird, the color bleeds, there's some issue with the whatever, etc. Then the mfg does it all over again. And everytime takes a long time coz there's probably a bunch of the mfg's own orders + a hundred other GBs that's also doing the same thing +the order fulfillment of another hundred GBs.

2

dDesu t1_j5yecp4 wrote

From what I'm figuring from other comments around the sub, the machines and tooling required is more specialized just for keycaps.

Judging by how fast this sub grew rapidly around the time of the pandemic, demand would have picked up quite rapidly as well.

I agree those wait times are ridiculous though, and there should be no excuses for it. The demand is there, why isn't production keeping up?

6

zod000 t1_j5yog5u wrote

The pandemic's effect on production times is excusable, but they didn't get THAT much longer, they have always been obnoxiously long.

7

daninet t1_j5ygil7 wrote

This is a scaling issue not tooling or machining. Injection molding is literally everywhere and even the crappy mcdonalds toys come with double moulded plastic these days. Also a keycap is like the most barebone simplest shape you can make on such a machine. They could spit out a full 101 keycap set in every 10 second if they wanted to. It is very possible they just play the "premium brand" game and sell cheap plastic while creating demand from shortage and paid ads on every platform.

5

TheTotalMc t1_j5ynz3k wrote

I believe half of the way comes from trying to match the colors with renders (color matching), which requires manufacturers to make samples and ship them out (a couple weeks per sample), and this goes on until the creator feels like it matches.

4

daninet t1_j5yv433 wrote

That's also not that hard pantone is literally made for this very purpose and everyone is using it for overseas manufacturing. You order your plastic in pantone xy and since they are looking on the same standard you will get exactly what you asked for. They are also an established business I dont think they still struggle with things like finding a supplier who can make a specified color

3

FalseBuddha t1_j5znkx7 wrote

That's how it's supposed to work, sure. That's often not how it actually works in the real world.

2

wankthisway t1_j5zw6p1 wrote

SHOULD, but I doubt that the vast majority are even capable of buying Pantone color books and the associated subscriptions for the colors in programs.

0

daninet t1_j602c05 wrote

Ok, so tell me this: if they have a setup product with a supplier (they do sell keycaps so they must have) what prevents them to leave the injection moulding machines run... forever? If the demand is so high? These machines are capable of insane output for low cost after they are setup. They simply create demand to keep the prices high. This is a different business strategy, similar to business class airline tickets or exclusive fashion clothes. They only need to sell fraction of the quantity for thousands of percent of markup and they can make more money than a mass manufacturer. This whole system if fed by people on social media overpraising pieces of plastic they waited for years.

3

TheTotalMc t1_j61fn3p wrote

Well, from what I know (and why GMK has been taking longer and longer), there was a plastic shortage a while back. This, plus the fact that GMK is a large company outside of keycaps (keycaps are a backseat for them and only a very minor amount of their profit) means it’s not their top priority

1

FalseBuddha t1_j5zn950 wrote

They take your money when all they have is a render because they need your interest free loan to even start the process most vendors have completed before they start selling a product.

5

Alex_Hanlin t1_j5z9mkr wrote

always buy in stock or second hand, i've gotten every set i've wanted in stock or through r/mechmarket and never had to wait more than a month

4

pm_me_ur_pharah t1_j616p5d wrote

because the producers are years behind schedule and refuse to expand production or take less orders.

3

Human133 OP t1_j5xqqfs wrote

GMK Metropolis keycaps

Keyboard is Drop Alt

  • modded Durock plate-mount stabilizers
  • plate and case foam
  • bandaid mod
  • Boba U4 switches

Numpad is Keychron Q0

  • Zealios V2 switches
23

Kursem_v2 t1_j5yqhwg wrote

hey, I'm new to mk — what is that feature where you have that two connector to connect to external numpad?

that looks clean af

6

lmiah t1_j5yv4s5 wrote

It's just a feature of that specific keyboard (Drop Alt) - welcome to the hobby!

9

taciturnGentry t1_j5zz1r2 wrote

it's likely just a USB-C to USB-C cable, but that particular board (the Drop ALT) has a USB-C port on BOTH ends of the board, so it makes creative stuff like this possible

7

Dissentient t1_j5xyqps wrote

Can you connect it the other way around, PC on the right and numpad on the left?

15

Creepingsword t1_j5yvqce wrote

That was my first thought too when I saw that picture. The whole point for me to get a TKL and now an 80% was to narrow the gap between my left hand on the keyboard and right on the mouse.

5

BorgNotSoBorg t1_j5znhxu wrote

I'm curious, why is that? Do you prefer a more "pizza slice" hand posture, or are you matching your shoulder spread, possibly as a smaller framed individual?

2

Creepingsword t1_j60cvgu wrote

I was referring to gaming, where not having the numpad makes it more comfortable for long gaming sessions and more runway for the mouse before having to lift up and readjust.

4

BorgNotSoBorg t1_j60dfs5 wrote

Ah, okay. That makes sense! I've been using standard for so long, I've never considered that.

2

Human133 OP t1_j5zlsgk wrote

I don't see why it wouldn't work the other way around. I'll let you know when I go home and try.

2

Verruca-Gnome t1_j5xzffc wrote

Imagine if they turned up after that amount of time and you didnt like them 😂😂🤣😅

14

pm_me_ur_pharah t1_j616ujz wrote

that was gmk 8008. years of waiting and the colors were way off. i was pissed.

3

RedOnePunch t1_j5xm4c4 wrote

It's such a great set. Photos don't do it justice.

10

YoloSwaggeltonJr t1_j5xzqjd wrote

I will never understand why people spend so much money and time on GMK

7

radoxel t1_j5ywuf2 wrote

Because it is the best, no debate. And it is not like other ‘premium' options are available within short period of times. You’d have to wait for a Ferrari as well and would get a Fiat at every corner.

1

Jeremyfc11 t1_j5zc6ig wrote

The best, but HOW much better actually?! Is it worth to pay 6-10 times more for keycaps that are slightly better? If you have tons of cash to burn maybe. But for most people, I don't believe so.

Bunch of videos on YouTube show that alot of clones have similar to sometimes the same quality as original GMK.

2

Futuristick-Reddit t1_j5ztzp4 wrote

6-10 times? Think you meant to divide by 10. Paying $120-130 for a good ABS set vs $80-90 for PBT is entirely reasonable if you prefer ABS.

2

its_that_dude_ t1_j61przg wrote

Nah i paid like $30/40 for a knockoff of this from Ali.

Fuck $200 and waiting 2 yrs for colored plastic

3

Futuristick-Reddit t1_j61pveu wrote

Still no clue where you got $200 from, but you get what you pay for with clones.

1

its_that_dude_ t1_j61qgpn wrote

It’s plastic. U ain’t getting much to begin with. Only way you’re paying $130 is if u get in on the group buy and wait 2yrs. Aftermarket gets marked up.

My keys been kicking fine for the past 3 yrs. I’d rather take that $100 and go get a nice dinner

1

Futuristick-Reddit t1_j61qns1 wrote

..Yes? This is an exact repeat of the other thread.

> I mean, second-hand PBT can easily cost just as much — at that point manufacturer is irrelevant, all that matters is popularity

1

Possibly_a_Firetruck t1_j61ss7k wrote

People buy second hand key caps? That just sounds... gross for some reason.

1

Futuristick-Reddit t1_j61xis2 wrote

Wait till you find out about r/mechmarket. And that many consider ABS shine (from use) to be a desirable quality in secondhand keycaps.

1

Jeremyfc11 t1_j5zvznh wrote

I didn't mean being able to buy them when they drop. Most people can't get them when they drop and have to rely on resale. Which can go from 200-400$. And you can easily get good clones for 40-60$ on sale. (That is where my 6-10 times is from).

And as I said, if you can afford it, that's totally reasonable. But price and availability/wait time is not easy to deal with for most people.

1

Futuristick-Reddit t1_j5zw5gz wrote

I mean, second-hand PBT can easily cost just as much — at that point manufacturer is irrelevant, all that matters is popularity

1

Jeremyfc11 t1_j5zbe9o wrote

Nobody can shame anyone to buy clones when:

1: Original GMK and other similar company keycaps are often overpriced.

2: Waiting that long for keycaps is ridiculous.

Most people can't afford to buy them or to wait that long.

5

its_that_dude_ t1_j61pwr3 wrote

Exactly. Clones good enough. Colored plastic ain’t worth all that hype

2

Owend12 t1_j620e5n wrote

And some sets will not even have an r2 so clones are the next big thing since buying aftermarket is not really viable and they jacked up the prices. ( Looking at you GMK Mizu )

2

TheAccountITalkWith t1_j5xwyan wrote

Genuine Question: Why did those keycaps take two years?

4

Dissentient t1_j5xyxat wrote

Just group buy things. There's just way too much that can go wrong with small production runs like those.

My starry night set (photo) took a year and a half even though initially it was supposed to ship in two months.

8

aqlno t1_j5yuk3o wrote

Because they were produced in Germany for one, labor is treated well there.

The other big reason is too much demand from designers and vendors for one manufacturer: GMK.

GMK won’t say no to a customer’s order, they just put it in the queue. So something that takes over two years to deliver is not being worked on all those two years, most of that time is just waiting in the queue for earlier orders to be finished. If designers and vendors went with other manufacturers and GMK queue was clear then a GMK run could be done in a few months, which was possible back in 2015-17.

GMK has invested in more molding machines and new robotic sorting, so queue times and fulfillment times overall from GMK should decrease. As long as demand doesn’t increase to meet new production capacity …

4

TheAccountITalkWith t1_j61pou8 wrote

I think this could have easily just been "Made in Germany and back ordered due to popularity". lol.

2

lmiah t1_j5yv196 wrote

Congrats it looks great, now don't ever do a GB again lol (That's what happened to me)

3

Redbronze1019 t1_j5zcsvx wrote

Me too! Feels so good to finally have them.

3

nacholibre711 t1_j5ztgng wrote

Holy shit I have a drop alt and I also have a macro pad. I had no idea you could plug it into the other usbc slot

I'm feel like an idiot, but thank you so much.

3

Human133 OP t1_j600e9t wrote

I had this thought for a long time before I got the macro pad and was ecstatic when it worked. Glad this helped!

2

ThePooley t1_j617a6f wrote

Dayum ! 2 years ?! Don't get me wrong fella, your keycaps are great. But GMK's keycaps are soooo overpriced. I already feel bad when I put 20€ in a set of plastic pieces.

3

thinkrtank t1_j619aci wrote

More than 2 years for GMK Nord so far..........

3

nielsz09 t1_j61d5da wrote

After a few GBs just like that I have realized the actual product would never have the exact pristine looking as it appeared in the render pictures. Most are close, some will be disappointing. It's of course good quality, no doubt, but it's also not super and not worth the waiting time.

3

its_that_dude_ t1_j61p0d6 wrote

2yrs??? Got these on Aliexpress for $30 and waited 2 weeks.

3

cms86 t1_j61z9q2 wrote

Found some GMK Mictlan clones on Amazon got it in 2 days.... not amazing by any means but feel great and on my board NOW not 2-3 years from now . I'll still probably get one second hand since I love the set

1

cms86 t1_j62047g wrote

If you're gonna post a group buy and collect THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of dollars you better pay the cost to play as a designer and get Pantones.

1

d_schwifty t1_j5xniqe wrote

What keyboard is this? Or what style of pcb has 10 key add on option?

2

Human133 OP t1_j5xooiu wrote

Keyboard is Drop Alt. The numpad is Keychron Q0. The Drop Alt has 2 USB-C ports so I just bought a 0.5 ft cable from Amazon to connect the numpad.

6

jacksflorence t1_j5xnkyf wrote

Which keyboards do you have?

2

Human133 OP t1_j5xoryt wrote

Keyboard is Drop Alt. The numpad is Keychron Q0.

2

extremeelementz t1_j5yab7r wrote

Loooks so nice! I wish Keychron has the same type of USB hub to attach their Q0. Love the caps too.

2

Hannerman t1_j5ynvq9 wrote

This is all kinds of satisfying

2

rgiunta t1_j5yvaga wrote

God I love the colors on this set, but I want them in another profile other than Cherry/OEM. My dream is a MT3 or XDA set

2

VRDV2 t1_j5yz8a3 wrote

Immaculate

2

Whiskeysauruses t1_j5zz8o6 wrote

Beautiful! Now the real question - Where can I find a Metropolis desk mat?

2

wamred t1_j605907 wrote

Wow, that's incredible!

2

jesterhead101 t1_j609vl1 wrote

I'd like to say they're 'worth the wait' but no keycaps are worth waiting for years.

Having said that, fantastic keycaps.

2

SnooDingos45 t1_j60hjoe wrote

Fuck gmk i’d rather buy 3 sets for the price of gmk. Fuck the sound and feel if it’s as much as a keyboard itself

2

[deleted] t1_j60nyn9 wrote

Three guesses what the contents of this thread are. Let's guess...

"Why don't they just make more"

"Group buys are ridiculous... why don't they make them first and then sell them in stock?" Whoever 'they' are.

"It's all a scam... they could make loads of them, but they do this to artificially raise the price"

"gatekeeping"

Amma right?

2

yot_gun t1_j61118c wrote

all 4 points are valid. waiting 2 years for plastic sets is ridiculous and should not be the standard. im preording KEYBOARDS (manufactered from 0 to a full keyboard) and it takes less than 4 months for it to be produced and QCed.

1

Silentism t1_j62vwx7 wrote

Not exactly. You can't just simply make more keycaps, that's not how production works. I think PBTFans is a similar example to making keycaps first and selling them in stock, since there's quite a bit of stock sold at vendors and from KBDFans after the GB, but the tradeoff is less designs for how much they can produce. Arguably better or worse considering how many different GMK sets are released vs PBTFans, but I feel that argument could have more factors to it.

Absolutely right 2 years of waiting shouldn't be the standard though, nor was it ever intended to be. I think there is some leeway to be given since they did struggle with keeping employees during the pandemic, but I also think its GMK's fault for taking so many projects maybe during that time and after. GBs are a result of the community just wanting to take customization to a higher level back in the day with keycaps community members designed themselves, and getting people to join them was the only way to make that happen. 3 years ago when I got into the hobby people talked about how these GBs took like 9 months on average, but that's also when the hobby blew up at the beginning of the pandemic and now here we are at 2 years for recent sets.

At the very least they're putting out sets faster, and they even announced they put in a massive amount of money into more sorting machines, so I'm hoping the sets on the bottom of the queue aren't 2 year waits.

I'm just trying to say its not super unreasonable, just super unfortunate.

1

Fatefire t1_j610o79 wrote

I like how your numpad connects to the keyboard . What is it ?

2

Human133 OP t1_j61403x wrote

It's a Keychron Q0.

2

Fatefire t1_j6145uv wrote

No the keyboard . I recognized the Q0 I have one . I wish my Q1 had a place for it to connect though

2

penphreak t1_j612cul wrote

I love my GMK set but the Akko sets I have are equal or better in quality in my opinion.

2

dedseqBash t1_j606yly wrote

Groupbuy? Yeah pay it and forget it!

1

cktyu t1_j61qi4f wrote

Congrats! 2 years is a long long wait

1

Owend12 t1_j620jmg wrote

That Board looks amazing!

2 years is a bit too much for keycaps ngl.

1

Thijm_ t1_j62sh7n wrote

this is really clean damn. but also the wait time sucks

1

xcidx t1_j62uqii wrote

Thanks, I hate it. But I won't downvote lol

1