You know what else takes two years to make? 2.5 children.

It's such a great set. Photos don't do it justice.

What keyboard is this? Or what style of pcb has 10 key add on option?

Which keyboards do you have?

Keyboard is Drop Alt. The numpad is Keychron Q0. The Drop Alt has 2 USB-C ports so I just bought a 0.5 ft cable from Amazon to connect the numpad.

Keyboard is Drop Alt. The numpad is Keychron Q0.

GMK Metropolis keycaps

Keyboard is Drop Alt

• modded Durock plate-mount stabilizers
• plate and case foam
• bandaid mod
• Boba U4 switches

Numpad is Keychron Q0

• Zealios V2 switches

Genuine Question: Why did those keycaps take two years?

Classic set. Can't decide what I want to put mine on.

Can you connect it the other way around, PC on the right and numpad on the left?

Just group buy things. There's just way too much that can go wrong with small production runs like those.

My starry night set (photo) took a year and a half even though initially it was supposed to ship in two months.

Imagine if they turned up after that amount of time and you didnt like them 😂😂🤣😅

I will never understand why people spend so much money and time on GMK

This statement cuts me pretty deep…. 😂

Hey those are clean!

Why in the world do keycaps take that long to make and ship?

Like from the perspective of someone who’s mildly interested in mk, that just seems like a long ass time for some plastic.

Loooks so nice! I wish Keychron has the same type of USB hub to attach their Q0. Love the caps too.

Their employees built the keycaps one molecule at a time.

It's ridiculous. I just wanted to try GMK keycaps. It's pretty and quality is good but nothing groundbreaking or worth the wait times.

Glad you like it, ‘cause it would suck if you didn’t.

From my time as a lurker on this subreddit, I feel like seeing these waiting times for these keyboards/caps/etc are more common than usual and are pretty ridiculous imo.

From what I'm figuring from other comments around the sub, the machines and tooling required is more specialized just for keycaps.

Judging by how fast this sub grew rapidly around the time of the pandemic, demand would have picked up quite rapidly as well.

I agree those wait times are ridiculous though, and there should be no excuses for it. The demand is there, why isn't production keeping up?

This is a scaling issue not tooling or machining. Injection molding is literally everywhere and even the crappy mcdonalds toys come with double moulded plastic these days. Also a keycap is like the most barebone simplest shape you can make on such a machine. They could spit out a full 101 keycap set in every 10 second if they wanted to. It is very possible they just play the "premium brand" game and sell cheap plastic while creating demand from shortage and paid ads on every platform.

Color matching takes an ungodly and sometimes unreasonable amount of time. Idk if it was KAT Mizu or GMK Red Dragon that was color-matched 3 or more times, and each time it took like 3-6 months turnaround time. Plus covid. Plus something wrong happening in the factory, etc etc. Plus, idk anymore ._.

Yeah, but you can't change switches to make them more "silent".

This is all kinds of satisfying

I believe half of the way comes from trying to match the colors with renders (color matching), which requires manufacturers to make samples and ship them out (a couple weeks per sample), and this goes on until the creator feels like it matches.

The pandemic's effect on production times is excusable, but they didn't get THAT much longer, they have always been obnoxiously long.

hey, I'm new to mk — what is that feature where you have that two connector to connect to external numpad?

that looks clean af

[deleted]

You just lube what's already there I guess?

Because they were produced in Germany for one, labor is treated well there.

The other big reason is too much demand from designers and vendors for one manufacturer: GMK.

GMK won’t say no to a customer’s order, they just put it in the queue. So something that takes over two years to deliver is not being worked on all those two years, most of that time is just waiting in the queue for earlier orders to be finished. If designers and vendors went with other manufacturers and GMK queue was clear then a GMK run could be done in a few months, which was possible back in 2015-17.

GMK has invested in more molding machines and new robotic sorting, so queue times and fulfillment times overall from GMK should decrease. As long as demand doesn’t increase to meet new production capacity …

Congrats it looks great, now don't ever do a GB again lol (That's what happened to me)

That's also not that hard pantone is literally made for this very purpose and everyone is using it for overseas manufacturing. You order your plastic in pantone xy and since they are looking on the same standard you will get exactly what you asked for. They are also an established business I dont think they still struggle with things like finding a supplier who can make a specified color

It's just a feature of that specific keyboard (Drop Alt) - welcome to the hobby!

God I love the colors on this set, but I want them in another profile other than Cherry/OEM. My dream is a MT3 or XDA set

That was my first thought too when I saw that picture. The whole point for me to get a TKL and now an 80% was to narrow the gap between my left hand on the keyboard and right on the mouse.

Lol yeah, first and last time.

Because it is the best, no debate. And it is not like other ‘premium' options are available within short period of times. You’d have to wait for a Ferrari as well and would get a Fiat at every corner.

Lookin’ good, human.

Immaculate

always buy in stock or second hand, i've gotten every set i've wanted in stock or through r/mechmarket and never had to wait more than a month

Nobody can shame anyone to buy clones when:

1: Original GMK and other similar company keycaps are often overpriced.

2: Waiting that long for keycaps is ridiculous.

Most people can't afford to buy them or to wait that long.

The best, but HOW much better actually?! Is it worth to pay 6-10 times more for keycaps that are slightly better? If you have tons of cash to burn maybe. But for most people, I don't believe so.

Bunch of videos on YouTube show that alot of clones have similar to sometimes the same quality as original GMK.

Me too! Feels so good to finally have them.

Cool, thanks for sharing.

Yeah I ordered a keycap set in the hospital before my wife was induced. I now have a 22 month old and no keycap set.

👀

At least you got delivered something :)

#ಠ_ಠ

I don't see why it wouldn't work the other way around. I'll let you know when I go home and try.

Ok, but this was a freakin R2, shouldn't color matching be already sorted out?

They take your money when all they have is a render because they need your interest free loan to even start the process most vendors have completed before they start selling a product.

I'm curious, why is that? Do you prefer a more "pizza slice" hand posture, or are you matching your shoulder spread, possibly as a smaller framed individual?

That's how it's supposed to work, sure. That's often not how it actually works in the real world.

Pls no

Holy shit I have a drop alt and I also have a macro pad. I had no idea you could plug it into the other usbc slot

I'm feel like an idiot, but thank you so much.

6-10 times? Think you meant to divide by 10. Paying $120-130 for a good ABS set vs $80-90 for PBT is entirely reasonable if you prefer ABS.

Makes me feel bad hopping on the extras and getting them in 2 days

I didn't mean being able to buy them when they drop. Most people can't get them when they drop and have to rely on resale. Which can go from 200-400$. And you can easily get good clones for 40-60$ on sale. (That is where my 6-10 times is from).

And as I said, if you can afford it, that's totally reasonable. But price and availability/wait time is not easy to deal with for most people.

I mean, second-hand PBT can easily cost just as much — at that point manufacturer is irrelevant, all that matters is popularity

SHOULD, but I doubt that the vast majority are even capable of buying Pantone color books and the associated subscriptions for the colors in programs.

it's likely just a USB-C to USB-C cable, but that particular board (the Drop ALT) has a USB-C port on BOTH ends of the board, so it makes creative stuff like this possible

Beautiful! Now the real question - Where can I find a Metropolis desk mat?

I had this thought for a long time before I got the macro pad and was ecstatic when it worked. Glad this helped!

Ok, so tell me this: if they have a setup product with a supplier (they do sell keycaps so they must have) what prevents them to leave the injection moulding machines run... forever? If the demand is so high? These machines are capable of insane output for low cost after they are setup. They simply create demand to keep the prices high. This is a different business strategy, similar to business class airline tickets or exclusive fashion clothes. They only need to sell fraction of the quantity for thousands of percent of markup and they can make more money than a mass manufacturer. This whole system if fed by people on social media overpraising pieces of plastic they waited for years.

Wow, that's incredible!

Haven't you ever heard of chloroform?

Using it, but when I wake up they still screaming.

Groupbuy? Yeah pay it and forget it!

This hobby is really strange about this stuff. In pretty much any other niche hobby (I'm a longboarder for example), paying upfront and then waiting 2 years for fulfilment would get you boycotted and most of your orders cancelled (or just run out of business because no one ordered in the first place). You actually need to have a physical product to show people and not just a render.

How the actual fuck does it take 3-6 months to print a keycap set and look at it to figure out if it's the right colour or not? That shit should take maybe 10 minutes after printing which itself should only take a couple hours depending on the method used.

I'd like to say they're 'worth the wait' but no keycaps are worth waiting for years.

Having said that, fantastic keycaps.

I was referring to gaming, where not having the numpad makes it more comfortable for long gaming sessions and more runway for the mouse before having to lift up and readjust.

Ah, okay. That makes sense! I've been using standard for so long, I've never considered that.

Fuck gmk i’d rather buy 3 sets for the price of gmk. Fuck the sound and feel if it’s as much as a keyboard itself

Yup. Works both ways.

So sick!

Exactly my thoughts on this. Literally any other hobby and it just would not work.

I feel like it’s due to the fact that enough people try to justify their (respectfully) dumbass purchases, that (is also in part due to the the normalcy of this practice from companies) takes YEARS to receive.

But you know…Clickity clack. And those THOCK key caps.

Not defending it, but part of the reason is back in the day GMK never did group buys, and the idea of it happening seemed so out of reach. People on GeekHack forked out $$$ just to buy tooling to imitate GMK's Cherry font, a 'rare' now common red GMK escape key once sold for hundreds of dollars, finding GMK keycaps on Classifieds was rare.

There are loads of really nice in stock sets if you don't want to wait for a group buy.

Three guesses what the contents of this thread are. Let's guess...

"Why don't they just make more"

"Group buys are ridiculous... why don't they make them first and then sell them in stock?" Whoever 'they' are.

"It's all a scam... they could make loads of them, but they do this to artificially raise the price"

"gatekeeping"

Amma right?

It initially started when the hobby was niche enough that groupbuys were pretty much the only way to get the factory time to do enough items to make it economical.

Nowadays it keeps happening because a) its a win for the designer/company, they get immediate payment with no risk of not selling their product if they just did it in stock b) there are still smaller designers who wouldn't be able to get their designs made without the GB model

I am hopeful that with GMK leadtimes being consistently insane, and now with KAT being blown up due to factory covid issues, that people will start to wisen up? But the FOMO in this hobby is real and its a fucking shame

GMK moment :D

Idk man. But from what I was told and what I inferred, the process basically is the creator asks for samples. Then the mfg makes them and sends to the creator. Then the creator looks at them, says that so and so color does not match their specs, the font is too weird, the color bleeds, there's some issue with the whatever, etc. Then the mfg does it all over again. And everytime takes a long time coz there's probably a bunch of the mfg's own orders + a hundred other GBs that's also doing the same thing +the order fulfillment of another hundred GBs.

Gmk red dragon isn't r2, neither is Kat mizu afaik. Kat mizu had a diff mfg.

And that's exactly what I do. I buy in stock stuff instead because that is a more consumer friendly business practice.

I like how your numpad connects to the keyboard . What is it ?

all 4 points are valid. waiting 2 years for plastic sets is ridiculous and should not be the standard. im preording KEYBOARDS (manufactered from 0 to a full keyboard) and it takes less than 4 months for it to be produced and QCed.

I love my GMK set but the Akko sets I have are equal or better in quality in my opinion.

Gotta love the ol' switcheroo

It's a Keychron Q0.

No the keyboard . I recognized the Q0 I have one . I wish my Q1 had a place for it to connect though

because the producers are years behind schedule and refuse to expand production or take less orders.

that was gmk 8008. years of waiting and the colors were way off. i was pissed.

Dayum ! 2 years ?! Don't get me wrong fella, your keycaps are great. But GMK's keycaps are soooo overpriced. I already feel bad when I put 20€ in a set of plastic pieces.

More than 2 years for GMK Nord so far..........

After a few GBs just like that I have realized the actual product would never have the exact pristine looking as it appeared in the render pictures. Most are close, some will be disappointing. It's of course good quality, no doubt, but it's also not super and not worth the waiting time.

Well, from what I know (and why GMK has been taking longer and longer), there was a plastic shortage a while back. This, plus the fact that GMK is a large company outside of keycaps (keycaps are a backseat for them and only a very minor amount of their profit) means it’s not their top priority

2yrs??? Got these on Aliexpress for $30 and waited 2 weeks.

And u can sell em for a hell of lot more!

I think this could have easily just been "Made in Germany and back ordered due to popularity". lol.

Nah i paid like $30/40 for a knockoff of this from Ali.

Fuck $200 and waiting 2 yrs for colored plastic

Still no clue where you got $200 from, but you get what you pay for with clones.

Exactly. Clones good enough. Colored plastic ain’t worth all that hype

It’s plastic. U ain’t getting much to begin with. Only way you’re paying $130 is if u get in on the group buy and wait 2yrs. Aftermarket gets marked up.

My keys been kicking fine for the past 3 yrs. I’d rather take that $100 and go get a nice dinner

Congrats! 2 years is a long long wait

..Yes? This is an exact repeat of the other thread.

> I mean, second-hand PBT can easily cost just as much — at that point manufacturer is irrelevant, all that matters is popularity

Then y don’t u know where the $200 came from!?! You asked. I answered. Didn’t stick first time?

Hence "still"

Glad we agree u can’t comprehend!

People buy second hand key caps? That just sounds... gross for some reason.

Wait till you find out about r/mechmarket. And that many consider ABS shine (from use) to be a desirable quality in secondhand keycaps.

Nothing wrong with liking the shiny look, but somebody else's shine seems weird.

Found some GMK Mictlan clones on Amazon got it in 2 days.... not amazing by any means but feel great and on my board NOW not 2-3 years from now . I'll still probably get one second hand since I love the set

If you're gonna post a group buy and collect THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of dollars you better pay the cost to play as a designer and get Pantones.

And some sets will not even have an r2 so clones are the next big thing since buying aftermarket is not really viable and they jacked up the prices. ( Looking at you GMK Mizu )

That Board looks amazing!

2 years is a bit too much for keycaps ngl.

Drop Alt.

this is really clean damn. but also the wait time sucks

Thanks, I hate it. But I won't downvote lol

Not exactly. You can't just simply make more keycaps, that's not how production works. I think PBTFans is a similar example to making keycaps first and selling them in stock, since there's quite a bit of stock sold at vendors and from KBDFans after the GB, but the tradeoff is less designs for how much they can produce. Arguably better or worse considering how many different GMK sets are released vs PBTFans, but I feel that argument could have more factors to it.

Absolutely right 2 years of waiting shouldn't be the standard though, nor was it ever intended to be. I think there is some leeway to be given since they did struggle with keeping employees during the pandemic, but I also think its GMK's fault for taking so many projects maybe during that time and after. GBs are a result of the community just wanting to take customization to a higher level back in the day with keycaps community members designed themselves, and getting people to join them was the only way to make that happen. 3 years ago when I got into the hobby people talked about how these GBs took like 9 months on average, but that's also when the hobby blew up at the beginning of the pandemic and now here we are at 2 years for recent sets.

At the very least they're putting out sets faster, and they even announced they put in a massive amount of money into more sorting machines, so I'm hoping the sets on the bottom of the queue aren't 2 year waits.

I'm just trying to say its not super unreasonable, just super unfortunate.

Don't feel bad. That's the smart thing to do.