Nwk_NJ t1_jadwrw6 wrote
Reply to comment by sutisuc in Shaq II is ICONIQ 777 by felsonj
People can live in the west, large swaths of the south, and large swaths of the north ward. It isn't like Philly's most affordable apartments are in center city lol. You seem to have an issue with Newark having any higher-end neighborhoods. The fact is, Newark has plenty of really struggling neighborhoods and some nice working class ones, but not enough middle class...the horror everytime something pricier opens is a bit melodramatic imo. I live in a rent controlled apartment. Increased amentities and residents in close proximity is good with me. When it comes time to buy something, I'll see what is best for me in terms of price and area. Maybe Newark, maybe elsewhere. But downtown is probably gonna be a bit pricier...it's like that everywhere. Philly has neighborhoods that might as well be Belleville or Bloomfield to downtown Newark, the way those places are to downtown Philly.
sutisuc t1_jadxttn wrote
Even center city, Fitler square, etc have affordable apartments in comparison to Newark’s priciest locations. So again obviously the higher end stuff is pricier in some ways in Philly but you’re getting a lot more for that than you will in Newark. Newark is WAY overpriced for what it is.
Nwk_NJ t1_jady6qn wrote
Is it though? You're 15 mins by train from Manhattan, and close to everything else in North Jersey and NYC. Close to airport, every major highway and train etc. Similar to Philly, but Phillys general region is overall less expensive. There are still affordable spots in Newark, but they won't be the nicest in town. Same for Philly. I also bet Newark has a way larger proportion of affordable units in these new buildings than most cities.
sutisuc t1_jadz6rp wrote
Newark is in a good area for things that aren’t Newark but for a city of 300k plus people most of the stuff is lackluster. So yeah Philly has much more stuff in it that doesn’t require leaving but the region isn’t as good as newarks. Newark however is a pretty meh city. So it’s a bit of a wash there but I’d still rather live in the nicer spots in Philly for less than I’d pay to live in the polluted ironbound or downtown that’s dead after 5 on the weekdays and weekends.
Aggravating_Rise_179 t1_jae25it wrote
Yet, you want to complain about the city accepting new development and trying to attract young professionals. The only way the city will get those amenities is if the city gets new residents. We used to have those amenities here, but white flight happened and much of that closed down because of it... but somehow that doesnt factor into your analysis.
sutisuc t1_jae2jc1 wrote
You notice I did indicate the ironbound has stuff in it but it’s polluted to all hell. So clearly you don’t need to whitewash and gentrify a place in order for it to have stuff. You realize that right?
Aggravating_Rise_179 t1_jae6a3k wrote
Ah yes, because Newark's wealthier residents are just all white people. A good chunk of the people moving into the city's downtown core tend to be people of color and many Newark residents with college degrees. There is a difference between gentrifying a city and redeveloping a city.
I also want to point out that you literally tacking on the Ironbound's pollution to undermine what that neighborhood offers. Like there are many who prefer the walkability, access to a major train station, jobs, etc that the Ironbound offers compares to much of the "nicer" neighborhoods of Philly.
But Im already losing enough of my time on this pointless argument. You dont like it here and thats fine, but just dont hide your dislike for the city behind some "concern" for its residents.
sutisuc t1_jae7iup wrote
A neighborhood can offer great things and also be polluted, why would those two things be mutually exclusive? And it’s not like it’s not true: https://www.nj.com/opinion/2022/05/in-newarks-ironbound-you-can-taste-the-air-its-disgusting-just-say-no-to-another-fossil-plant-moran.html
I get you’re the ultimate Newark booster but just burying your head in the sand and pretending that a city with starting rents of 2500 dollars for new studios that is also home to four superfund sites and tons of active polluters is not a good look. Obviously I’m concerned about Newark or I would just be ranting about “crime” like the idiots that don’t actually care about Newark. Given that I’m actually concerned about the environmental racism and lack of affordable housing that’s not the case.
Also in what world do the “nice” parts of Philly lack walkability, transit, etc? The transit and nightlife options are far superior in Philly and that would only be controversial to someone who is delusional.
Aggravating_Rise_179 t1_jaeeev6 wrote
The ultimate booster... dude, I have come down on the city for its shit in the past and I am very much aware that the city lacks certain things that I would love it to have. I am just pointing out that in order for the city to attract the things you love about Philly it needs people with higher incomes to move in and not to just be a city exclusively for the poor... but that somehow makes me delusional.
I also love the fact that you keep pointing to Newark's four superfund sites and claiming to want environmental justice for its residents, but then dont point out that Philadelphia County (basically the city of Philly) has 44 in its borders (which makes it the second most polluted county in the Country)... but somehow, your okay with that because the rent of a studio apartment is slightly less than 2K. Have you stopped to think if the average resident of Philadelphian can actually afford those "affordable" rents. Seems to me that the economy of the city and what passes as higher incomes/higher rents is actually lower since the population of the region cant support higher rents.
The fact of the matter is Philly only looks affordable to people in this region because the average rent in the NY area is about 3K, while the average rent of Philly is 1,901. Just because the numbers look lower to us does not mean it is actually lower for the people living in that area. Philadelphia has a poverty rate of 22.3% which means many of those "affordable" units are in fact not affordable for them.
The definition of affordability is not the same across regions because the market in each region is different. What's affordable for someone in NJ would be considered out of range for someone in Alabama or Mississippi.
If you are going to claim that you care about Newark's lack of affordable housing and its environmental issues, atleast also pretend to care about it in Philly. Because what is happening in Newark is not exclusive to here. Developers all over are buying up properties and making the new housing more expensive than the current economy of those cities can actually support without outside residents moving in. Philly is going through the same housing unaffordability as Newark, but somehow because of Newark's 4 superfund sites its a bad look yet not in Philly with 40 more (many of which are literally steps away from Center City and a few in predominately black North Philly).
Love you calling me delusional because I have a differing opinion about Newark's nightlife and access to mass transit and walkability. Nightlife is up for debate, as I would put up the Ironbound's options up against most cities, but access to mass transit and walkability when Newark's population density is higher than Philly's and much more concentrated because of the smaller city limits... come on
sutisuc t1_jaeewso wrote
I thought you were done with this debate? What happened?
Aggravating_Rise_179 t1_jaeg7jr wrote
Edits from my boss took a bit longer than I thought, so decided to entertain this nonsense for a bit longer.
Nwk_NJ t1_jae9edb wrote
White wash? Several young well-off professionals of color...but ok. And yeah Philly is an environmental beacon lmao.
sutisuc t1_jae9ndj wrote
Does Philly have four superfund sites in it along with multiple active polluters, including a trash incinerator, a stones throw from its most densely populated neighborhood in the city? Philly has a multitude of issues but that’s actually reflected in the cost of living there, unlike in Newark where you are paying New York metro area premixed for a very lacking urban experience
Nwk_NJ t1_jaeam7f wrote
I mean, I'd bet it does tbh lol.
And again, you're simply not getting it...what is a 15 minute train ride from Philly? That region is cheaper, period. It's not like oh Philly has crime so let's keep prices low, but the south jersey suburbs cost as much as Montclair bc of equal amentities inside the town, in a vacuum...no...its our suburbs are more pricey than Philly's, Newark is more pricey than similar parts of Philly, and NY at its apex is more pricey than downtown Philly, etc etc. It's not a reflection of Philly issues, it's that Philly is not located in such a desirable region the way Newark is. Newark again, is not in a vacuum. It's still affordable for the region precisely bc of the issues you point out, but its gonna have higher prices due to factors like the region ya know? Also, as it gets more amenities etc, it goes up in price. Hence this house...go literally 10 mins up Bloomfield Ave and that same house is 1.5-2 million.
You complain about artificial inflationary prices...how about artificial deflation? Should Newark stay cheaper than a place up the sidewalk just bc an imaginary border and sign that says "welcome to south orange" is there? Seems silly. Just as silly as pretending the border exists so as to deny people educational opportunities and etc.
sutisuc t1_jaeb12s wrote
Unless you have a source to back it up then it does not. Feel free to google and get back to me though. If you need any links showing just how badly polluted the ironbound is let me know.
You don’t need a 15 minute train ride to a better city if you can get whatever you need in the city that you already live in.
Otherwise I agree just pointing out the frustrating aspect of paying these prices to live in Newark when you can’t even find a spot to shoot pool, bowl, more than one movie theater, shit is dead downtown, etc.
Nwk_NJ t1_jaeb6iw wrote
That's not how this works. You didn't produce a source either. As of now, it's unknown.
sutisuc t1_jaebeq8 wrote
https://www.businessinsider.com/ironbound-newark-new-jersey-pollution-law-2022-8
https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2022/08/newarks-ironbound-neighborhood-fights-for-clean-air/
There’s three. Can you send some for Philly?
Nwk_NJ t1_jaebab1 wrote
sutisuc t1_jaebzo9 wrote
Oh you want to do it by region? Cause this includes places outside of Philly proper, I was just doing the places in Newark city limits. The bulk of those sites are on the NJ side by the way
Nwk_NJ t1_jaebfal wrote
And whattaya know?!?!?!
We were both making an assumption. Could have just left it there haha...
Whatever no bad blood or anything...you can actually have a debate so all in good fun. I get prices going up is scarey. If it were to become hoboken, we are all screwed. But it won't imo.
sutisuc t1_jaec5en wrote
You gotta read your sources more carefully man. This is about a trash incinerator in Chester PA, which is of course not philadelphia. Meanwhile there’s a trash incinerator in the ironbound.
Nwk_NJ t1_jaedvfu wrote
LoL ok. So they can put the incinerator in Kearny or Rahway next time. That way the invisible Newark Borders will stop the smog...of course it may raise prices in the ironbound!
They did get rid of their in-city incinerator though...so I'm Surprised the prices didn't sky rocket!
https://hiddencityphila.org/2018/03/back-when-we-burned-trash-on-the-delaware-river/
sutisuc t1_jaee65b wrote
I don’t understand you think it’s a bad thing for a city to get rid of an incinerator? This is a weird reflexive “my team vs your team” thing that I don’t get. You want to live in a city with more pollution or less? Philly should be commended for getting rid of that. I hope we do the same in Newark some day. Philly being cheaper and having less pollution than Newark is not the win for Newark you seem to think it is.
Nwk_NJ t1_jaeeisn wrote
LoL you are one of those ppl that can't take an L and just keeps talking. We aren't talking about getting rid of incinerators. I'm in the middle of eviscerating your absurd assertion that Philly had less of a pollution/superfund/incineration problem than Newark.
I was also cracking a joke...since you hate rising prices and don't acknowledge that improvments lead to price increases...i.e., get rid of the incinerator, awesome...but then you'd complain about a house selling for more. You seem like you just want to have your cake and eat it to is what I'm getting....its not realistic.
[deleted] t1_jaeesxo wrote
[deleted]
sutisuc t1_jaefxvn wrote
I’m talking about present day. Why would you think it matters if a city used to have one? Newark presently has one and many other active polluters. What’s hard to grasp about that.
Regarding your edit can we get some environmental remediation like Philly got in that case to go along with the price increase? I don’t consider studios going for 2500 being a benefit.
Nwk_NJ t1_jae93ws wrote
So basically you live-in newark bc it sucks and is cheap, and you'd like it to stay that way bc it's convenient for you?
If you'd rather live in Philly...I think the Turnpike takes all types of U-Hauls.
But, again, the size of the region is akin to Philly. Philly is huge. Newark is not on its own island. You live in Newark partly for Newark itself and partly for the greater region. I do anyway. That comes into account when discussing prices.
sutisuc t1_jae9dya wrote
No I don’t think Newark sucks I do love it but I’m not kidding myself into thinking that it’s worth the price these new buildings are charging. And who in the world wouldn’t want where they live to stay affordable?
Aggravating_Rise_179 t1_jae1usr wrote
Again, that also has to deal with the fact that the economy in the philly area is not as competitive as NJ/NY. People in Newark have to compete with a shit ton of new residents coming from the burbs, NY, all over the country, foreigners both lower income and higher income because people want easy access to the jobs in the New York Market. Philly doesnt offer those same options.
The fact of the matter is, Newark's poorer residents and the housing prices in that sector of the market, is higher compared to those in the philly area because the working poor means something a bit different here compared to there. Plus, Newark was never going to stay this island of poverty for long after the suburbs stopped pushing for development. NYC cannot build the housing necessary to accommodate the people looking to move into the area, nor can JC and Hoboken. At some point the banks and developers and newer residents were going to make their way over here and the city was going to accept new development because it cannot support those who live here without new infusion of cash.
This shit isnt black and white, and Newark has alot more safe guards in place to help stem displacement compared to places like Harrison, JC, and Hoboken because we have learned from their mistakes.
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