“Clear the homeless out of there” is such a weird sentence to me. These are people, not a rat infestation.

Honestly in the case of newark penn they are really are you get hounded by them from the moment you enter till the time you get on the train. That's why when they announced the renovations at Newark Penn as far as the benches and AC goes most peoples reaction was on the homeless there will appreciate it

The previous poster answered your question in spite of himself. You raise a perfectly legitimate question. Is it possible that a train station operate simply for that purpose — a way station for passengers, or must it also inevitably double as a homeless shelter? But of course in the current political environment there are those who will become apoplectic about you even raising the question. And take the opportunity to insult you and virtue signal. And so then of course the answer is that the status quo must remain because even to question that a train station be exclusively a train station is to be a horrible person. It’s absurd but this is now what we’re dealing with.

Because they have everything they need in that area charities feed them and give them clothes, The drug dealers are there as much as the charities are. Plus they can come and go on the PATH since that railroad barely ever enforces fare jumping. Also except for the hour's of weekday rush hour they usually are allowed free rein over penn. Now as far as new york Penn and Newark goes new York penn has a even worse homeless issue. That mainly because of all the methadone clinics

Wow. You're a fucking monster.

How am I monster there are services to help people and as long as activists keep pushing the they have to get help when they feel like it and until then they can sleep anywhere they want narrative it's never going to get better. In fact some of the hardest defenders of homeless people I feel like have never truly dealt with them on a daily basis. Do you want to walk around and have your kids see some of the things I've seen around penn over the years? I don't think you would appreciate a homeless masturbating in the middle of the street, Someone screaming at you because you didn't buy them what they wanted in McDonald's or my all time favorite someone taking a shit in 1 track stairwell then throwing it at people. I'm a believer in bringing back the asylums because some people can't be left alone to function in society. If you don't like my position then be the force for change take em home with you when the government fails it's the citizens that have to pick up the slack

The people attacking the OP and calling you a monster for asking whether a train station can be maintained as a train station are indirectly answering the question.

It’s the language of referring to humans as though they were rats that people take an issue with, not the notion of maintaining a train station. Ideally Newark would provide some form of shelter or housing for them. But if that’s not the case, it seems a bit cold to just wish they’d be “cleared out” with no follow-up plan.

But what happens if there are services and help available and every time they come around all these homeless people keep telling them no but because we can't force somebody to seek help. Some of these homeless people will tell you they want help yet they turn down help for years . What do you become that if what you're asking for your offered and you keep saying no and I'm not talking about just shelter I'm talking about their offered medical help counseling and shelter and I've seen them turn it down over and over in my 20 years of working in and around Newark Penn. I don't know what else to consider an individual at that point a squatter we can use squatter it's not the proper word but if it makes you feel better then we'll call them squatters

Just out of curiosity, by your proposal, where do the homeless go once you “clear them out”, and why is that outcome less dangerous than the one where they’re in an indoor space under police supervision?

That’s another issue to tackle as a city then. But language contains intention, so people will critique inappropriate uses of it in order to curtail the potential for bad intentions seeping into one’s actions. For example, I have less trust in someone’s intentions who refers to queer people as “f*gs” when discussing how to help the queer community, than someone who speaks of them respectfully. It’s not a perfect science of course, but a safe general rule of thumb to keep people on a positive agenda when it comes to fixing societal problems.

Idk about dangerous it’s like one flew over the cuckoos nest at best

Its NYC export to NJ

That would be detention without a crime.

Maybe OP is suggesting they do with them what NYC mayor is doing with thirs...oh wait...it is the same homeless people.

Its a money/politics problem. They cant control movement between nyc/newark.

Which local authority you reckon should foot the bill?

Both States work together on a variety of issues just throw this on the pile. Plus whatever happened to that lawsuit Newark had with New York City about it that disappeared real quick

Lmao Democrats politics is shady af. Knowing the NYC mayor position on homelessness from his recent actions, I doubt it will be easy to reach an agreement on the fate of these people. One can argue that homeless are running away from nyc to newark.

I really would love for an investigation into all these so called non-profits that are earning millions in contracts from both cities and states to deal with the homeless.

The liberal & media narrative goes like this:

"These are people down on their luck"

This isn't the great depression . Over 90% of these individuals are mental ill cases incapable of following rules. They overwhelmingly refuse to stay in shelters bc they can't shoot drugs or drink there. Neither can they bring their shopping carts & other stuff they hoarde. Nothing is more upsetting than returning to "your spot" to find everything has been cleared of another homeless person went thru "your stuff" while you were in shelter.

Insane asylums were closed based on the theory we could trust the mentally I'll to stick to the medicine regimen. Most don't.

How are the homeless dangerous especially with police patrolling? Do you mean as a white person traveling to Newark NNY? It just gives you and icky feeling

What would be detention without a crime? I’m saying the current situation is one in which homeless people are allowed to stay indoors with police supervision, if they choose

Newark should build a homeless shelter if it doesn’t have one already. I’m not sure why my post necessarily precluded that option. But if that can’t be done, they still can’t stay in the train station. You have to push past them to get up the stairs and they’re screaming at each other downstairs.

Edit: they also have access to NYC homeless shelters

"An indoor space with police supervision". The transit police in Newark are not there to supervise the homeless. Rather it is because of the homeless that we have increased transit police. It's for the safety of the genuine passengers. Technically, if you have a valid ticket or you intend to get one they cant get rid of you unless you commit a crime.

The way I see it there is no solution unless you discriminate against people based on looks. Either that or blocking access only to people with a valid ticket for that day but that also means changing the PATH ticketing system.

Being homeless in a public place is not a crime. Rounding up the homeless in Penn Station would be a severe violation of their civil rights. Just because you feel uncomfortable when you see homeless people, it doesn't give the police the right to forcibly remove them.

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My sense is that there is room at the shelters, but that shelters have strict rules that many people would have difficulty following. Shelters of course impose structure that many would resist. I can understand the mentality of a person who is dealing with severe mental health and drug issues gravitating toward living at a place like Penn Station to the extent that it is made available to him. Then if there is a contingent of people essentially living in the station without realistic alternatives, how should the police handle that? Very difficult question, but I wouldn't fault someone for arguing that there should be rules against squatting / domiciling in the station, and that the police should enforce those rules. That is a legitimate argument, though not the only one.

The police are already clearing the station to some extent. If they weren't, one would see more homeless people at Penn Station, eventually to the point that the core function of the station would be in jeopardy. I think what we're seeing right now is some unhappy equilibrium / compromise between the interests of train passengers and station residents, as it were.

You can enforce a rule against remaining in the station / loitering past a certain period of time.

I think you're only focused on one side of the equation. There's a balance between liberty and order. If there were no rules about where to sit or how long you could stay, and there was never any removal by police, Penn Station's function as a train station would be in jeopardy.

The Dunkin is open past 11pm now? Thats a good improvement.

I don't see how homeless people threaten Penn Station being a train station. They aren't sitting on the tracks.

The homeless at Penn Station don't bother me much, but I understand that the attendant issues do bother a lot of other people, and I empathize with them.

My girlfriend for example will not travel through Penn Station unaccompanied, and I know her concerns are not way out of the norm. Yes, the fear of crime is generally disproportionate to the risk of victimization. The chances of victimization to her at the station are likely quite low. But the appearance of disorder and norm violation has a psychic cost, making people uneasy and motivating them to avoid the place.

Any location in which a large number of street people congregate will likely become known for pungent body odor, the smell of human refuse and psychotic episodes. I don't blame the homeless for these issues, but I also don't blame the large segment of the population who will do what they can to avoid such unpleasantness. Norms are important to people everywhere, and norm violations are, in every society treated with some measure of avoidance and shunning.

My understanding is that the LA Metro, currently undergoing a multi-billion dollar expansion, has low ridership due in part to its common use as a place to live and do drugs. Once a location or system becomes well-known for norm violations, the people interested in those things will flock there, and those people not interested or disgusted by those things will stay away.

Newark Penn Station is of course not at that extreme level. Its the seventh busiest train station in the US, as I understand. But I think the OP's concerns are valid. The state of things is a deterrent to people traveling through the station, visiting Newark, and living here. And if the police had a completely live-and-let-live attitude about Penn Station, then I think it would go the way of the LA Metro, or worse.

There have been times I have come back late through Penn Station and found certain parts of the station essentially taken over by station residents. By taken over I mean that they blocked egress and diverted passengers elsewhere.

I think it's far from unreasonable to suggest that the police contain the issue to a greater extent, though that would require more coercion on their part.

Doesn’t having all the answers get exhausting?

Liberals

Broken windows theory. If a broken window is left unfixed, soon all the windows will be broken

Oklahoma City, the most conservative big city in America, with a Republican mayor, has had a persistent issue with homeless camps for years. Were liberals responsible for that, too?

I actually devised a plan. Trains to Miami from Newark penn are like $100 right. Takes 24 hours. I could send one a month with two bottles of water and some crackers. Handcuff them to the chair and have someone in Florida to let them free. We can cleanup Newark penn together

In the winter time, the city allows the homeless population to sleep inside the station with heavy police oversight (as noted). Before the early commuting hours theyre all dispersed out and they tend to hang around a 3-4 block area radius of the station until the cold evening temperatures come around again. I understand it’s VERY jarring to encounter this as you arrive into the station, been there myself. It’s not a solution to the problem at hand of course; but it’s a humane gesture - having these people freeze to death outside would just strain our health services and emergency services. To some degree, this is the world we live in unfortunately and I don’t expect the number of homeless people in the tri-state to be going down anytime soon…