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LUNA_FOOD OP t1_ix7qck4 wrote

Reply to comment by imameanone in My grandpa being the decorated in 1942 for saving what was left of the cruiser Trento’s crew the, sunk during the allied operation Harpoon. He was a machinist engineer. Later half of his family would sadly be executed by the Germans for harboring fugitives destined to concentration camps. by LUNA_FOOD

We are always conflicted having this at home but its a piece of history of our family and not memorabilia

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LilSpermCould t1_ix7v9kr wrote

Not everyone was a fascist and the way the world works now is pretty different then it was back then. The "great" Henry Ford was an epic racist, and had published all kinds of antisemitic works. Both Henry Ford and Hitler were big fans of each other. In 1938 Hitler awarded Ford the Grand Cross, he was the only American to receive this honor, it was Germany's highest honor.

I've lived in metro-Detroit my whole life and this is something most people don't know about him. The ironic part is that Ford's manufacturing philosophies and actual industrial capabilities played a pivotal role in defeating both Nazis Germany and Imperial Japan.

War isn't a zero sum game of bad versus evil. Unfortunately good people get swept up into things that they can't avoid. Your Grandpa saved people's lives, it should be commended and honored.

It sounds like he was raised by great people too. Everyone knew the risks of hiding Jews and other people bound for the death camps, but they did the right thing anyways. Sounds like they were all good people doing the best they could under some of the most difficult times humanity has ever faced.

Very cool picture and stories!

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Bodark43 t1_ix8eucg wrote

Ford was not your usual anti-Semite. He seems to have been similar to Charles Lindbergh, another Michigander farm boy. On one hand, he thought there was an international Jewish banking conspiracy, published The International Jew and even the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. On the other hand, like Lindbergh he thought there were "good" Jews, and he employed Jews in his factories and even had a Jewish architect who designed the factories-( and was puzzled as to why that architect got offended at what Ford was publishing). He also advocated letting Jewish war refugees into the US early in the conflict at a time when most people- especially Roosevelt's State Dept.-, were against it. Hitler loved Fordism. Ford didn't love Hitler...but he never returned Hitler's medal, either.

Ford's mental state in the 1940's was not great, but one witness stated that he was pushed further into dementia after watching a newsreel about the liberation of the death camps in his home theater.

Ford had so many contradictions that Stephen Watts wrote his excellent biography of several people named Henry Ford, instead of trying to explain how they fit together.

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keikioaina t1_ix9ogtw wrote

Jew/neuroscientist here. I really don't care that Ford had Jewish friends or employees. His legacy was to use his position to amplify hate, bigotry and racism. It's complicated, but it's not hard to take a position on Ford's anti Semitism. Also watching a video cannot push someone further into dementia. Dementia does care what you do while it eats your brain.

OTOH, Ford's grandson, Henry II was a big supporter of Israel and made statements about atoning for his family's behavior.

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leninbaby t1_ixaz6j3 wrote

There are quite a lot of anti-semitic supporters of Israel, and conflating supporting the state of Israel with supporting Judaism... also feels kind of anti-semitic?

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keikioaina t1_ixb0lsm wrote

Yeah, I understand the distinction and agree with you. My readings about Ford Jr suggest that he was a non ironic and sincere friend to Israel and Jews, both. He spoke of reversing his grandfather's legacy of anti semitism.

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Master_finder t1_ixb4i47 wrote

I think that supporting Israel's right to exist is a necessity as it does have the right however I feel that blind allegiance in any country is wrong. There is not a country that does not have a black book of all of It crimes....calling those who criticize the policies and or murder commited by government should not be grouped with those who are against a specific religion or culture wishing for their death. I do not feel that the Israel and Palestine peace accords are on equal ground as the US blindly goes wherever the State of Israel goes and that causes the conflict to persist . Saying what I said will however incur in some the belief I am anti Semitic even though I have never called for the destruction or harm of Jewish people.

The term is now being used by certain groups seeking to push a political agenda that does not represent the majority in my view. Just read The Haaretz and you can see how divided people are in that conflict except that they are Jewish and so cannot be treated of being anti Semitic...

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Bodark43 t1_ixctpli wrote

The witness to Ford's viewing the film was not a medical professional, and his mental and physical health had been declining for some years. But it is significant that he was very upset, did not applaud the implementation of Hitler's Final Solution. Regardless of how he might have felt about the film, though, Ford's anti-Semitic effect has indeed long outlasted him. A friend has told me you can buy still reprints of The International Jew in Istanbul. But if Roosevelt had listened to him, lots of Jewish refugees could have escaped to the US and survived the Holocaust. I'm not saying Ford was admirable, or even defensible. I am saying he was complicated.

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keikioaina t1_ixcun4k wrote

I don't know about what Ford told Roosevelt. Can you explain or point me to a reference.

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LilSpermCould t1_ix8jc59 wrote

Very interesting, I wish I could find some more energy to read books. My mind just wanders too much but I'm hopeful that I'll be able to one day read more.

It does make sense about him not liking Hitler as much as I stated since Ford was a nationalist. Racism and antisemitism can be complex. I did forget that Lucky Lindy was also antisemitic.

People are so odd and fascinating all at the same time. Hell, I have a hard time just keeping up with myself.

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AX11Liveact t1_ixb77cg wrote

You could say the same about 90% of all card carrying NSDAP members. Actually most of them would describe themselves like that after 1945. And "just following orders", of course.

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Bodark43 t1_ixcsqj6 wrote

No, nobody who was a card-carrying NSDAP member would have said there were "good" Jews. But certainly the "clean Wehrmacht" myth that the German staff were just professionals following orders has been decidedly disproven.

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AX11Liveact t1_ixdgljj wrote

You know, I am old enough and live in the right place to have actually known a couple of them. I know quite well what they said when they weren't avoiding talking about "back then".

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Pihkal1987 t1_ixbqrzi wrote

Interesting take lol. Are you saying that Henry Ford wasn’t a vile antisemite and friend of Hitlers, because he was…. Henry Ford and you lived in Detroit?

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LilSpermCould t1_ixcmbwm wrote

Interesting interpretation. You might want to reread my comment. Most people do not know about Ford's antisemitic history. It's rather prolific based on the amount of material he published. Being from around here, I'd have figured more people would know this since we're taught so much about him in school.

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Leasir t1_ix8xpbp wrote

Your grandfather was decorated for true acts of heroism, not for shooting at Ethiopians in a colonial war. And later paid an high price for immense act of bravery and empathy.

You really can be proud.

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Painting_Agency t1_ix92boa wrote

Mussolini being a fascist wasn't your grandfather's doing, and here, he's just doing what many heads of state would also do, recognizing a high-profile act of extraordinary bravery and service.

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Tyler-Moran t1_ix8plvx wrote

I say display it this wasn’t a award for battle or anything controversial this was for saving the life of his fellow men. I’d display it on his heroism to save the lives of others.

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evileyeball t1_ixbtlyl wrote

I fully understand this, My wife's grandfathers both fought, One for his king, as part of British Army being that he was Scottish (As a Radio Operator) and the other was a radio Operator as well but he was forced to join Wehrmacht as a German living in easter europe with his Hungarian/Yugoslavian wife and as much as he didn't like or agree with Hitler it was what he had to do.

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