Comments
Canopenerdude OP t1_j8tf18f wrote
I get insulted when anyone calls me a liberal. I'm a leftist, thank you, those so-called liberals are practically centrists
CreeperIan02 t1_j8vgy1g wrote
But Joe Biden is a communist! /s
zeroliger t1_j8vmo92 wrote
this is great news
[deleted] t1_j8wiy5q wrote
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106473 t1_j8tzmp7 wrote
What about only applying the death penalty to the most heinous of crimes (mass murderers etc), skip the death row and straight to firing line?
tkm1026 t1_j8uc364 wrote
There's no way to do that without shredding due process, unfortunately.
106473 t1_j8uekem wrote
Explain
badatmetroid t1_j8uly3e wrote
Since 1973 at least 190 innocent people have been executed. Those are just the one's who could be proven innocent after the fact. If you decrease due process, you increase the number of people who get executed before we can figure out that they were wrongly convicted.
tkm1026 t1_j8ukrtk wrote
Due process- a course of legal proceedings according to rules and principles that have been established in a system of jurisprudence for the enforcement and protection of private rights.
So, to be clear, all suspects and convicts are given the same rights. The court system works off of existent precedent quite a bit. So those rights aren't just established by some written-as-a-whole document (though that exists per state and federal level) but also by what courts have decided in the past.
106473 t1_j8vve0y wrote
You still failed to explain the lack of due process of how if one was sentenced to death for mass murder as the jury would go over the evidence and come to the conclusion of a guilty verdict and how the perpetrator would be given the death penalty and promptly executed how that would not be due process.
ButterShave t1_j8w4qf0 wrote
People are falsely convicted all the time. You need to allow for appeals to at least attempt to weed out the false convictions before you get to the punishment phase, especially when that punishment is irreversible as is the case with execution.
tkm1026 t1_j8wvaye wrote
Kk. Simplified in such a way my 11 year olds could understand. The rules only work if they're equally applied to all suspects and criminals. Once a single review of evidence becomes enough to kill a person, it becomes enough to kill the appeals process altogether. What with how dead people don't get appeals.
Chemical_Miracle_0 t1_j8wedfg wrote
What about simply locking them away without parole allowing for an easier conviction and less taxpayer dollars spent for essentially the same outcome?
akadmin t1_j8tj9gj wrote
Interestingly enough the death penalty is a very effective deterrent in countries like Singapore who have very low crime rates.
FarmersHusband t1_j8u29ir wrote
It isn’t though. Singapore has a very strict cultural observance of shame and a strong sense of community.
But I’m guessing you already knew that, what with vast knowledge of the place.
tellmeaboutyourcat t1_j8u7ik1 wrote
GTFOH with all that nuance on the subject of crime.
FarmersHusband t1_j8ulb4j wrote
Yeah well now I guess someone isn’t going to hear about my cats.
zeroliger t1_j8vmq67 wrote
i would like to hear about your cats. how are they.
akadmin t1_j8u7tlp wrote
Yeah, culture is toxic in the US. No sense of shame whatsoever.
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[deleted] t1_j8sjiul wrote
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ChrisTheHurricane t1_j8stumo wrote
I once got into an argument with someone on this very issue back when I used to frequent r/Catholicism. The argument they made was that the term "pro-life" is a term only used to describe a position on abortion.
The mental gymnastics are crazy.
YEAHBUDDY5809 t1_j8tkhtn wrote
Unreal how some Catholics agree with the death penalty. You can’t pick a choose parts of Catholic doctrine that you agree and disagree with. Here’s 2267 from the new Catechism: “Consequently, the Church teaches, in the light of the Gospel, that “the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person”,i and she works with determination for its abolition worldwide.”
ChrisTheHurricane t1_j8tlcp4 wrote
A friend of mine put it best a few years ago when Pope Francis condemned the death penalty:
God: "Thou shalt not kill."
Believer: "But--"
God: "Did I fucking stutter?"
[deleted] t1_j8t9geo wrote
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Bicycle-Seat t1_j8upsfw wrote
You are correct, pro life should apply to the death penalty too.
akadmin t1_j8tjn0c wrote
I don't think executing an innocent life for convenience versus executing someone who's guilty of a proportionate crime requires that much thought to comprehend
ChrisTheHurricane t1_j8tkaqc wrote
Except there is no foolproof way to determine a person's guilt. People are wrongfully convicted every day across the planet. And while we can at least compensate someone who was wrongfully imprisoned, we can't compensate someone who was wrongfully executed.
akadmin t1_j8tkzer wrote
I agree, but don't act like a fetus and a serial killer are the same thing. That was a really stupid comment.
tellmeaboutyourcat t1_j8u7rzt wrote
A fetus isn't a life, dumbass.
zeroliger t1_j8vmyz7 wrote
do you really just assume all people enjoy getting abortions or something? like what the hell is in that head of yours.
akadmin t1_j8vonga wrote
What??
Zenith2017 t1_j8xzlpy wrote
Again, not a serial killer in this scenario, someone wrongfully convicted. We have killed dozens of people in the US that we now know for a fact were innocent
JStevens84 t1_j8suu8x wrote
I don’t know, seems reasonable to me. Everyone deserves a chance at life. In some instances, people who have caused an extremely excessive amount of harm to others doesn’t deserve to continue to live.
I’m not even taking sides, just saying I don’t think those two ideas are necessarily conflicting
sensistarfish t1_j8sw15z wrote
You’d have to put your complete trust in the justice system. Not everyone put to death is actually guilty.
JStevens84 t1_j8wrnmq wrote
Oh I’m against the death penalty for that very reason. I just meant that as a theoretical
ChrisTheHurricane t1_j8sxbiz wrote
The counterargument to that is that there is a nonzero chance of executing an innocent person. At least a person can be compensated for time spent wrongfully imprisoned; no such recourse exists for a person wrongfully executed.
Canopenerdude OP t1_j8sxuef wrote
"I'm pro-grapes but only green grapes."
SuggestAPhotoProject t1_j8t3z4q wrote
Remember when Jesus commanded you to turn the other cheek?
SpauldingSmails18 t1_j8td3or wrote
Woah dude you spoke to Jesus? Did you get a selfie?
Wise-Cap-7135 t1_j8t0zkd wrote
Hi, I'm a pro-life Republican who vehemently opposes capital punishment not only because it takes a life, but primarily because the persons convicted and sentenced to death are far too often later exonerated and the death penalty itself is disproportionately applied to minorities.
gslavik t1_j8tanc1 wrote
What kind of Rockefeller Republican shit is this? :)
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akadmin t1_j8tjtwu wrote
I don't know where you're getting that but that's the first time I've heard it.
SpauldingSmails18 t1_j8te1au wrote
The death penalty is more often applied when the victims are white. That’s really the racial bias. Black people are not given the death sentence more than whites.
AtBat3 t1_j8snu9p wrote
Death penalty needs to be abolished
Spiritual-Hedgehog-7 t1_j8t46gh wrote
Why? Curious to learn both sides.
AtBat3 t1_j8t4q5u wrote
Go look at how many people have been exonerated after being on death row. Now think about how many actually were put to death because they didn’t get lucky enough to be exonerated. As long as there’s the chance that we are putting innocent people to death, I am against the death penalty.
There’s also the main argument that we shouldn’t be killing people at all no matter what, but I feel my former argument hits home a bit more.
-js23 t1_j8tqxbz wrote
A: The government should not have the power to execute its own citizens.
B: Fear of the death penalty does not deter heinous crimes.
C: The justice system is about justice, the death penalty is inherently based on revenge and emotion, two things that do not belong in a modern judicial system.
ilikeyoureyes t1_j8ufz6m wrote
I straight up don’t believe some people deserve to live. I also don’t trust the government to make that decision. Abolish the death penalty.
Spiritual-Hedgehog-7 t1_j8yqx6s wrote
What about jury decision? Cut the govt. out of punishments.
DRWDS t1_j8w3caa wrote
You can actually download the 300-page report commissioned by the Wolf administration studying factors related to the death penalty. A diverse team of experts spent three years on it and found 16 categories of reasons to not execute anyone. Besides innocent people being executed, widespread lying by cops, systemic racism, and flawed technology, execution costs many times more money than life imprisonment. We also know that "general deterrent" is a myth. There is no moral, ethical, civil, or financial reason to execute.
DRWDS t1_j8w3sgn wrote
There is a link in this article to the report on the death penalty. It took 7 years (not 3), and was published in 2018. https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/state-and-federal-info/state-by-state/pennsylvania
MegachiropsFTW t1_j8t8emu wrote
gslavik t1_j8tafu7 wrote
The only "pro" for the death penalty is that people who would refuse to use violence against others get to witness the state use violence on people they consider "sub par".
I would argue that death is probably better than "sit in this prison until you die".
SamuelLCompassion t1_j8t2pnn wrote
>In 2015, the Justice Department and the FBI formally acknowledged that nearly every examiner in an FBI forensic squad overstated forensic hair matches for two decades before the year 2000. Of the 28 forensic examiners testifying to hair matches in a total of 268 trials reviewed, 26 overstated the evidence of forensic hair matches and 95% of the overstatements favored the prosecution. Defendants were sentenced to death in 32 of those 268 cases.
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>The executions of Nathaniel Woods, Dustin Higgs, and Troy Davis have been cited by some as possible cases of wrongful executions.
[deleted] t1_j8w4jso wrote
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torcsandantlers t1_j8tarbq wrote
If you want a fair judicial system, you can't also want the death penalty.
If someone is spending life in jail, we always have the opportunity to catch a wrongful imprisonment and there's the chance for appeal.
If they're dead, those chances are gone. The death penalty is cutting short their opportunity for due process.
CreeperIan02 t1_j8vh7ub wrote
Throwback to the literal fucking child executed in the 40s (George Stinney) later proven to be completely false because he was racially discriminated against.
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ArcherChase t1_j8ud57t wrote
Simple question to those who support the death penalty.
How many executions of innocent people becomes an unacceptable amount? Is it acceptable to have 1 innocent person executed? 2? 10?
Ultimately and specifically because of how broken our system of "justice" has become, innocent people will be murdered by the State. Once that happens, there is no moral or legal or acceptable standing to continue.
delco_trash t1_j8wfsn6 wrote
I'm for the death penalty in very narrow situations such as the person is on camera commiting the homicide, and with a higher standard than reasonable doubt.
Ex. Someone robs a bank and shoots a teller in the face with a shotgun. There's cell phone footage, no alibi, CCTV, and several eye witnesses who provide testimony.
In that case I'd be for it.
But even then there would need to be aggravating circumstances.
However, this is so rare, and this isn't the current standard, so as it stands under the system, a moratorium isn't entirely bad.
Traditional_Formal33 t1_j8wsvov wrote
In todays age we have deep fake videos and college kids creating amazing visual art that looks real so even that type of evidence becomes sketchy.
I appreciate you speaking up for your view. I think my qualms about death penalty are two fold:
- The legal costs usually amount more than life in prison so we aren’t saving any effort just killing.
- The person doesn’t get a chance to rehabilitate or feel remorse for their actions. We don’t know if there’s a hell or afterlife so we are really just cutting their sentence down to nothing
I think of the absolute worst person in the world, Hitler, and he chose the death penalty over being imprisoned. He robbed us of actually holding him accountable. If I want hitler to rot in a cell, there’s no one worse that I would rather just die and we move on from.
zeroliger t1_j8vn1n4 wrote
0 innocent executions is acceptable any more and its a failure
TotesMyMainAcct t1_j8te4dw wrote
Win-Win;
No one will accidently be murdered by the state and you can fill your corporate prisons!
ImOldGettOffMyLawn t1_j8wvwww wrote
::eyeroll::
theyeetingcatfish t1_j8uio8n wrote
Death penalty as a deterrent is pointless. It does nothing for the crime rate. But as revenge? Its excellent.
69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j8xikc1 wrote
America is a death cult. We love death, and all of our public policies are tilted towards creating more of it.
We've got levels of infant mortality in the deep south that would embarrass the third world that we can't do anything about, but we can put a gun in every teenager's hands no problem.
Heroicshrub t1_j8uuj0m wrote
The death penalty is a massive waste of taxpayer funds, and one could argue life in prison is actually a worse sentence. No reason to keep it around
Euphoric-Program t1_j9lsd2p wrote
Life in prison is pretty good these days. They have pen pals, get married, have tablets and phone calls. An ex con literally explained to me that prison was a party just with no girls
Jef_Wheaton t1_j8xinwu wrote
“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement." -Gandalf
Remember Cameron Todd Willingham. He was convicted on 3 counts of murder for the deaths of his children in a house fire. Most experts that reviewed the case agreed that it was an accidental fire, not arson, but Gov. Perry was making a run for President and wanted to look "tough on crime". He executed Willingham anyway.
I went to school with, and lived on the same street as, a multiple-murderer. I'm friends with someone who was best friends with one of his victims. He was eligible for the death penalty, but was given life without parole instead. It'll be 35 years this summer, and he still sits in prison. His punishment has been far worse than if he had been executed.
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Tokoyami t1_j8t5tzw wrote
If you were wrongfully convicted of raping a child and sitting on death row for it, would you still hold that conviction?
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Because at least 190 innocent people have been executed in the U.S. since 1973.
lanfear2020 t1_j8ujmjr wrote
A lot of times I think I am against the death penalty…and then I hear a story about someone hurting kids…then I am for it. I think the real hesitation is that someone wrongfully convicted gets put to death.
Zenith2017 t1_j8xy18g wrote
That's the whole rub. What level of emotional response (no matter how justified, true, or widely-shared) could outweigh a very real potential to kill someone who was innocent?
MinimumGuarantee t1_j8uguyp wrote
Don’t love the state having the ability to execute people. Also don’t love subsidizing some heinous criminal’s life in prison sentence with my taxes. Should probably bring back gladiators and let them fight for their freedom or something.
Zenith2017 t1_j8xy4nq wrote
You ever seen a grown man naked?
FMG1978 t1_j8y2b75 wrote
Have you ever hung around a gymnasium?
MinimumGuarantee t1_j8xz687 wrote
yeah, love big fat cocks.
[deleted] t1_j8uvx22 wrote
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MinimumGuarantee t1_j8v1klk wrote
it's very much a woman's right. kinda weird to think otherwise.
as for your question: you know the answer but you think you've cracked some sort of code, which is adorable.
zeroliger t1_j8vna0t wrote
they are brainwashed beyond belief they really do think were addicted to abortions or some shit. its always been the last option. and even planned parenthood encourages you to adoption instead. like we take abortion pretty seriously.
MotleyLou420 t1_j8uu6sx wrote
Someone is going to see this as a challenge!
webauteur t1_j8tdrkx wrote
Great! This means I can go on that killing spree I've been planning. Just joking!
Excellent_Two4862 t1_j8v8fgy wrote
I am considering a career as a murderer, so will def check out PA. How is the market for murderers there? Are there any programs to help wif cost to reloc?
[deleted] t1_j8uhr3v wrote
The death penalty should be expanded to pedophiles.
HeyboboAd9727 t1_j8udobx wrote
Televise the execution.
cahj1968 t1_j8tedjt wrote
Because the big business of the incarceration industry got in your pocket?
badatmetroid t1_j8um420 wrote
It costs more to keep people on death row.
Zenith2017 t1_j8xxsjw wrote
That does open a question though - are you still performing prison labor if you are on death row? If they can't or don't, then there is an interest in the profit lost to those who benefit from the prison-industrial complex
AllWhiskeyNoHorse t1_j8tmyz5 wrote
PA has a pro-life governor? Watch out ladies, he's coming for your rights next.
[deleted] t1_j8sy8ig wrote
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FarmersHusband t1_j8u2v1g wrote
Easy bullshit response to a complicated question. Anyone who disagrees with the death penalty for any reason is now instantly “pro-p3do” in your eyes.
Which is fucking disgusting and the debate tactic of a mentally inferior child.
Bada__Ping t1_j8t90kt wrote
That's it? What if someone kills a kid but doesn't sexually assault them?
gslavik t1_j8tausj wrote
The Venn diagram of pedophiles and child sexual abusers (or child molesters if you want to use that term) is not a circle.
zeroliger t1_j8vnc01 wrote
ah yes the pedo panic. everyones a pedo.
xxl_gal t1_j8t9a20 wrote
For rapists? Sure. But being one isn't a crime in an of itself- they can't help how they were born and statements like yours do nothing to get them help.
Chemical_Miracle_0 t1_j8tbjco wrote
Good. Every time I bring up the fact that we should abolish the death penalty I get mocked for being a bleeding heart liberal. Honestly that isn't the case. I couldn't care less if a mass shooter gets put to death. What I do care about is the wrongly convicted getting murdered by the state. Death is kind of an irreversible process, and I don't know why anyone would trust the justice system THAT much. Plus it's almost always cheaper on the tax payer to pay for someone to spend life behind bars then the cost of putting someone on death row. No seriously, if you haven't already, look up the cost of putting someone on death row vs. life in prison. It's mind boggling.