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HighEntropy420 t1_jbt3py8 wrote

Everyone is gonna say pay more and they're all correct.

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redditmbathrowaway t1_jbtodrb wrote

I'm not saying pay more. That's the lazy answer.

I'm saying highlight the benefits more, the main one being that you get 4+ months off per year, whereas most Americans get 15 days.

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Pink_Slyvie t1_jbuk0mu wrote

> 4+ months off per year

Bullshit. I'm so tired of this.

You get hair over 2 months of summer break. This time needs to be spent on continued education to keep your certs up to date.

And before you go "Oh but 2 weeks for Christmas, a week for easter, all those days off." Those are almost all spent on prep and catchup work.

Stop talking about things you don't know anything about.

> whereas most Americans get 15 days

This is bullshit too, the rest of the world figured out ages ago that 6 weeks of vacation increases overall productivity, start fighting for workers' rights.

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redditmbathrowaway t1_jbunoe4 wrote

We're talking America here - and Pennsylvania to be exact.

I'll get 15 days off next year. You're saying that at the low end (just for summer) you get over two full months.

Factor in the spring break (full week off) that you're enjoying now, winter break, thanksgiving break, and all federal holidays...and then add in your own PTO on top of that, it's easily 4 months.

I'm not saying teachers don't work hard when they work. I'm saying they work less and are paid commensurate per hours worked in exchange for a unique and freeing lifestyle. Which is that should be communicated to the next generation of teachers to attract talent.

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SnooRevelations9889 t1_jbubfw6 wrote

Many, maybe most, teachers don't get 4 months off.

They get 4 months to work another job.

Many of the ones who take the summer off have other sources of money, inheritance or a well-off spouse.

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redditmbathrowaway t1_jbuewb7 wrote

At $60,000 in a low cost of living city (basically any city in PA), teachers should be comfortable. And that's the average teaching salary in Philadelphia.

If someone lives outside of their means and wants to subsidize their income with another job, that's on them.

But there's no reason for taxpayers to subsidize what otherwise would constitute 4-months of PTO and allow teachers to double dip.

Again, if you want to attract the next generation of educators - the original point of this post - the answer isn't more money (because it's unjustified). It's instead more of a marketing issue, where teaching should be framed/sold more in terms of freedom and impact.

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SnooRevelations9889 t1_jbuk5pg wrote

Actually, the marketing for the field already over-performs. Lots of people think they want to be teachers, and go into debt to become them.

A dose of reality leads many to switch careers. I've worked with a lot of them over the years.

Many, many people have a side hustle or second job these days. It's not double-dipping when you use your scheduled time off to make ends meet or try to get ahead a little. That's still your time to sell. You weren't aware?

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redditmbathrowaway t1_jbuorko wrote

Well if it's your time to sell then salaries don't need to be raised to compensate for that time.

With that argument you're saying that the $60,000 teachers are making working 8 months a year isn't enough? Seems like a stretch.

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SnooRevelations9889 t1_jbv5q6s wrote

It's not for me to decide how much people should be paid. Or for you, sorry to let you know.

There's a labor market. The time off teachers get is just one small part of it.

As it stands, competent people who have a desire to be teachers are instead opting for more pragmatic choices. That's what happens in a free society.

The solution is the same as any hiring/retention problem…to pay them competitively. Sorry you don't like it, but that's just the free market answer to this problem.

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Advanced-Guard-4468 t1_jbv8k9f wrote

You see, when teachers pay comes directly from taxes they should have a say.

The big problem with raising teachers income is that it also raises local property taxes. This makes it difficult for local teachers to ever catch up. The more they make, the more expensive it is to live in the communities.

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nickcaff t1_jbv1vbw wrote

Where are you getting 4+ months off for teachers?

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Fluid-Wrongdoer6120 t1_jby5e50 wrote

You seriously think it's a simple marketing problem? Like people/potential teachers aren't aware of the fact that you get a few extra months off as teachers?

It's basic supply and demand. It doesn't matter what YOU think is a fair wage for a teacher. If people aren't signing up, they obviously don't think it pays well enough.

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redditmbathrowaway t1_jbyz61h wrote

"A few extra months?" Haha, ok.

That's an insane value prop for a lot of people. Again, most Americans get 10-15 days off per year.

I'm proposing we highlight the freedom and flexibility teaching offers. Want to teach during the year and then fuck off to Indonesia for the summer? Go for it.

Want to spend your summers writing that novel you've always wanted to write? Go for it.

Want to tutor on the side and bring in extra income instead? Your decision.

Not a lot of jobs offer that level of flexibility or freedom. Easy to imagine a social media campaign that showcases this.

But the solution isn't to raise wages on an already comparable overpaid and underworked class of government employees (in comparison to their government employee peers).

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Fluid-Wrongdoer6120 t1_jbz77ux wrote

They already know about the summers off, trust me. Your campaign would be wasted money.

And again, you seem to think basic economics of supply and demand don't apply because YOU consider teachers to already be overpaid. My father likes to rail against the campaign to raise minimum wage, because he thinks "the dumb burger flippers" don't DESERVE $15 an hour. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse when I have to remind him that it doesn't matter a damn lick what he thinks their talents "deserve." The fact that restaurants can't get enough people to come work for them for $10/hr, by default, means they're worth more than that simply by laws of supply and demand. I'd make the same argument for teachers.

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