Hazel1928 t1_jbv5sea wrote on March 11, 2023 at 11:34 PM

Reply to comment by SeptasLate in How can we attract more people into the teaching profession? by jekomo

I’m not an advocate for teachers. I’m an advocate for children and for education in America. Also, charter schools don’t seem to have any difficulty hiring teachers. The one closest to me is growing and growing. Also not included in this discussion is the value of the retirement benefits that teachers get, which is substantial and nurses and social workers don’t have that. They have 401ks.

SeptasLate t1_jbvb7ss wrote on March 12, 2023 at 12:16 AM

This asked how to attract teachers, and people in education know most teachers don't love charter schools. And as an aside children and education benefit from qualified and compensated teachers.

There's exceptions to the rule but every charter school I've worked at or with struggled to keep teachers for more than a couple years. They did do a good job at hiring teachers out of school or those without certifications required for public education. Statistically there hasn't been anything to show that they do more with less. The vast majority of charter schools perform at or below.

That's another good point, charter school teachers don't have access to pensions.

Hazel1928 t1_jbvc9fp wrote on March 12, 2023 at 12:24 AM

I feel like teachers don’t like charter schools because they offer an alternative to a failing system. I don’t blame the failing system on teachers. I have worked in a public school as an occupational therapist, and I saw how hard the teachers worked. I think the special education teachers have an especially difficult job. I think we as a society need to revise our public education system from the ground up. That isn’t the fault of teachers, but they need to be open to new ideas to make education work better. Charter schools are laboratories to try out different systems.

And don’t forget, when you are complaining about how poorly teachers are compensated, that they have access to à valuable retirement plan which the professions you are comparing them wiith don’t.

SeptasLate t1_jbvfpmx wrote on March 12, 2023 at 12:51 AM

Do you really think teachers don't like charter school because they're trying to improve public education in America and its not because they promote a system where teachers have less pay, less benefits, less rights, and less protections?

And if you particularly respect special Ed teachers don't look at their compensation at charter schools. Although those schools get to choose if they accept disabled students so that might be fair.

Charter schools began as labratories but very rarely are they doing anything revolutionary. Almost all of them have copied models used in public schools. And why is such a key part of that new system of better education include the devaluation of educators? I am waiting for the solution to our problem with education in the US that doesn't involve the dismantling of public education.

What professions am I comparing teachers to? And I don't think removing pensions is a solution to attracting more people to the profession.

Hazel1928 t1_jbvg92z wrote on March 12, 2023 at 12:56 AM

I didn’t say removing pensions is the solution. I said that people in this thread who are complaining that nurses and social workers earn more than teachers need to calculate the value of the retirement benefits that teachers get, where nurses and social workers don’t have anything comparable.

SeptasLate t1_jbviyek wrote on March 12, 2023 at 1:18 AM

I mean I think nurses and social workers are also under compensated and suffer from the same problems that are undermining public education.

I just thought that charter schools are well known for rarely being a top destination for teachers and that more of them are nit going to cause more people to become teachers. I also thought saying teachers don't like charter schools just because they're a better alternative was disingenuous and disrespectful.

Hazel1928 t1_jbvkplm wrote on March 12, 2023 at 1:32 AM

Well, it’s not so much teachers I have a quarrel with, its the NEA and the ATF. Both are resistant to change, and, in my opinion, concerned about looking out for teachers when I think all Americans should be able to agree that schools exist to serve students, not to serve teachers. I will repeat: American education needs to be reformed from the ground up. Education exists to serve students. But in order to serve students, they must find the ways to attract and retain effective teachers.

SeptasLate t1_jbvp188 wrote on March 12, 2023 at 2:08 AM

Yes teachers unions and associations exist to protect teachers. Unions are also just collections of teachers, an issue with teachers unions is an issue with unionized teachers. Often what's good for students are usually good for teachers. Teachers unions have been known to fight for smaller classrooms, less of a focus on standardized testing, and greater support from specialists for students.

Teachers ability to organize is one of the few benefits and source of almost all of the benefits that attract people to the profession. Just compare education in states that have teachers unions and ones that don't. They better serve students.

Beyond that, what teachers or union says that schools are for anything but the education of students? What initiatives that would benefit students have unions prevented?