How can we attract more people into the teaching profession?

Submitted by jekomo t3_11oljty in Pennsylvania

PSEA reports that between 2010-11 and 2019-20, Pennsylvania saw a 65% decline in the number of in-state and out-of-state Instructional I certificates issued. Over the next 10-15 years when teachers of my generation (Gen X) retire, there will be a major shortage. Obviously, we are already starting to see the effects of fewer students majoring in education with the sub shortage, but all data indicates that we need to attract more young people to the teaching profession. How can we do this amid constant attacks, accusations of indoctrination, less teacher autonomy, etc?

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HomicidalHushPuppy t1_jbt3ufb wrote

Increase pay, reduce the cost of college and remove unnecessary courses from college requirements, give teachers avenues to push back against problem kids and parents, and do something about the toxic work politics you see within school districts and the unions. Also make it easier to get into teaching without having to be a sub or some other egregiously-underpaid position for years on end.

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PinsAndBeetles t1_jbtnleu wrote

I have my MA and am Elementary certified and haven’t entered a classroom since 2011 because the starting salaries in my area are in the low-mid $30K range. There are several other teachers at my current job who also can’t take a pay cut to enter the classroom again.

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Old_Moment7914 t1_jbuldam wrote

I’m a ham and live on northern border , talk to Canadians everyday who bitch there teachers are making $80k , I’m like do you want an educated child who grows into a well reasoned adult or do you want the average American ? You can pay your teachers well now or you can pay with idiots later , it’s that simple , I am very proud to be well educated by some amazing teachers , I easily became a life time learner because I had teachers who inspired the best in us , unfortunately within a few years of my graduation many of these teachers were replaced with inferior models who work cheap and the the whole abortion of No child left behind happened and ended all electives in school ( I had wood shop, metal shop, automotive , small engine repair, pottery, photography , year book , home economics , Spanish, French , drivers education , swimming , sculpting , archery among the many that I took ) that sadly don’t exist anymore . I had such a great experience in elementary school that’s also no longer done ,the entire school participated in hunting turkeys ,growing vegetables , picking apples , peeling and chopping apples potatoes and then cooking the meal in fire pits in huge cast iron Dutch ovens , some of my best memories even after more than 50 years . Back in those days your teacher was determined by your last name so I had the same teachers as my older sister and brother , so there was a strong family bond already when I got to school . A good or bad teacher can make or break a child’s future. TYFYS to all the educators on this thread , you don’t feel the love in your paycheck , but there are many who love you and respect your service and sacrifice .

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Yankiwi17273 t1_jbueg48 wrote

Also, increase opportunities for salary increases over time. Due to the school district just deciding to not play nice with the teacher’s union, my mom’s last 5-10 years of teaching was at the same rate, and about half of that was without an active contract.

But don’t worry. They had enough money for a brand new turfed up football stadium

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ltahaney t1_jbv44p3 wrote

Reducing college requirements in general is a good idea. Many many many places a bachelor's is only 3 years, and society still functions. This applies to more topics than just teaching though, and it will also never happen.

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underwear11 t1_jbxl7hx wrote

Pay is a huge one, but also the lack of additional supports for special needs has made teaching terrible. I know several teachers that quit because they struggled with dealing with difficult kids in the classroom that could have been dealt with by having aids or additional options to support those students. Instead, they just put them in the class and expect the teacher to have the normal classwork, plus modified classwork to address special needs, and be able to provide everyone the amount of support they need. Add in frustrated parents and politics and the pay becomes 5x too little.

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SeptasLate t1_jbuygtl wrote

I agree with some of what you said but what are the unnecessary college classes/requirements and the toxic parts of unions?

The need to build up a resume by substitute teaching was from before the shortage when there was too much competition for limited openings.

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hellyeah227 t1_jbw7cgk wrote

Colleges claim that you need a "well rounded education" and it's their way of adding classes that you don't need as a required part of your degree. For example, I was a journalism major and still had to take multiple math classes, science classes, and a foreign language class - none of which was applicable to being a journalist in the slightest. The first two years of my four year degree were these general education requirements.

There are many degree programs that could be simplified and take two or three years. In Europe, many business school programs are only a year, for example. That way, you spend less money in loans, can enter the workforce earlier and it's less expensive to go back to school for further training.

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SeptasLate t1_jbwacow wrote

Yeah I can see an arguement that some career training programs dont need to be a bachelors degree but simple certification. Although I will say everyone really should learn a foreign language, if only to be aware other cultures exist.

I'm just not sure if educators do not need a well rounded education especailly with how k-12 tends to teach all of those subjects and those subjects tend to intersect.

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DryIce677 t1_jbt4o3o wrote

Much, much better pay. I am going to school to be a teacher in PA. I should not make more as a part-time jewelry salesperson than I would as a full-time teacher, but I do. I made nearly $40K as a part-time worker, and that is more than the starting pay for many schools in southwestern PA.

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hsavvy t1_jbu8e43 wrote

Which is so fucked given that there were teachers making six figures in the school district I grew up in (lower merion)

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ButtBlock t1_jbvqei7 wrote

I think teachers should be paid six figures. Should be a high compensation high accountability job. Like nursing or being a doctor.

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pocketbookashtray t1_jbvuqo2 wrote

Teachers unions will never agree to high accountability. You can’t fire teachers.

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Superb_View_6430 t1_jbxnjvr wrote

This is a myth - teachers can be fired. Administrators need detailed records showing why the teacher should be fired. It’s a pain in the butt, but if a teacher is bad and the admin wants to get rid of them, they need to collect evidence.
The Union is there to make sure this happens and it’s not just random. The problem is, many administrators are just as overwhelmed as teachers and simply don’t have the time or energy to do it. It’s a systemic problem…bad teachers slip through cracks just like bad students slip through cracks, just like bad workers in the private sector slip through cracks. It’s usually because someone at the top is too focused on something else to notice or decides it’s not worth the effort.

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pocketbookashtray t1_jbxwbki wrote

A simple fix is to install cameras in every classroom that parents, administrators and taxpayers can watch.

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Superb_View_6430 t1_jbxx4kb wrote

Yeah - it would be interesting to see the hoops parents jump through to claim “my child would never do that” while watching it play out. One of the most brilliant moments I ever saw was when a student abused a bus driver with a string of expletives - the administrator marched the student into his office, called the students mother, handed him the phone and said “tell your mother what you just said to that bus driver”. No more plausible deniability when you hear it out of your child’s own mouth.

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pocketbookashtray t1_jbysbuv wrote

Or when a kid tries to claim a teacher inappropriately touched them. “Let’s go to the replay”.

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ButtBlock t1_jbvqb1t wrote

I have to remind myself that 40k is literally equivalent to 29k when I graduated college after accounting for inflation. The idea that we’re paying teachers that is appalling. No shit no one’s signing up.

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TSUTigers95 t1_jbtn6ts wrote

Don’t forget about the school boards. They are causing a lot of policies that are leading teachers to leave.

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HighEntropy420 t1_jbt3py8 wrote

Everyone is gonna say pay more and they're all correct.

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redditmbathrowaway t1_jbtodrb wrote

I'm not saying pay more. That's the lazy answer.

I'm saying highlight the benefits more, the main one being that you get 4+ months off per year, whereas most Americans get 15 days.

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Pink_Slyvie t1_jbuk0mu wrote

> 4+ months off per year

Bullshit. I'm so tired of this.

You get hair over 2 months of summer break. This time needs to be spent on continued education to keep your certs up to date.

And before you go "Oh but 2 weeks for Christmas, a week for easter, all those days off." Those are almost all spent on prep and catchup work.

Stop talking about things you don't know anything about.

> whereas most Americans get 15 days

This is bullshit too, the rest of the world figured out ages ago that 6 weeks of vacation increases overall productivity, start fighting for workers' rights.

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redditmbathrowaway t1_jbunoe4 wrote

We're talking America here - and Pennsylvania to be exact.

I'll get 15 days off next year. You're saying that at the low end (just for summer) you get over two full months.

Factor in the spring break (full week off) that you're enjoying now, winter break, thanksgiving break, and all federal holidays...and then add in your own PTO on top of that, it's easily 4 months.

I'm not saying teachers don't work hard when they work. I'm saying they work less and are paid commensurate per hours worked in exchange for a unique and freeing lifestyle. Which is that should be communicated to the next generation of teachers to attract talent.

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SnooRevelations9889 t1_jbubfw6 wrote

Many, maybe most, teachers don't get 4 months off.

They get 4 months to work another job.

Many of the ones who take the summer off have other sources of money, inheritance or a well-off spouse.

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redditmbathrowaway t1_jbuewb7 wrote

At $60,000 in a low cost of living city (basically any city in PA), teachers should be comfortable. And that's the average teaching salary in Philadelphia.

If someone lives outside of their means and wants to subsidize their income with another job, that's on them.

But there's no reason for taxpayers to subsidize what otherwise would constitute 4-months of PTO and allow teachers to double dip.

Again, if you want to attract the next generation of educators - the original point of this post - the answer isn't more money (because it's unjustified). It's instead more of a marketing issue, where teaching should be framed/sold more in terms of freedom and impact.

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SnooRevelations9889 t1_jbuk5pg wrote

Actually, the marketing for the field already over-performs. Lots of people think they want to be teachers, and go into debt to become them.

A dose of reality leads many to switch careers. I've worked with a lot of them over the years.

Many, many people have a side hustle or second job these days. It's not double-dipping when you use your scheduled time off to make ends meet or try to get ahead a little. That's still your time to sell. You weren't aware?

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redditmbathrowaway t1_jbuorko wrote

Well if it's your time to sell then salaries don't need to be raised to compensate for that time.

With that argument you're saying that the $60,000 teachers are making working 8 months a year isn't enough? Seems like a stretch.

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SnooRevelations9889 t1_jbv5q6s wrote

It's not for me to decide how much people should be paid. Or for you, sorry to let you know.

There's a labor market. The time off teachers get is just one small part of it.

As it stands, competent people who have a desire to be teachers are instead opting for more pragmatic choices. That's what happens in a free society.

The solution is the same as any hiring/retention problem…to pay them competitively. Sorry you don't like it, but that's just the free market answer to this problem.

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Advanced-Guard-4468 t1_jbv8k9f wrote

You see, when teachers pay comes directly from taxes they should have a say.

The big problem with raising teachers income is that it also raises local property taxes. This makes it difficult for local teachers to ever catch up. The more they make, the more expensive it is to live in the communities.

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nickcaff t1_jbv1vbw wrote

Where are you getting 4+ months off for teachers?

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Fluid-Wrongdoer6120 t1_jby5e50 wrote

You seriously think it's a simple marketing problem? Like people/potential teachers aren't aware of the fact that you get a few extra months off as teachers?

It's basic supply and demand. It doesn't matter what YOU think is a fair wage for a teacher. If people aren't signing up, they obviously don't think it pays well enough.

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redditmbathrowaway t1_jbyz61h wrote

"A few extra months?" Haha, ok.

That's an insane value prop for a lot of people. Again, most Americans get 10-15 days off per year.

I'm proposing we highlight the freedom and flexibility teaching offers. Want to teach during the year and then fuck off to Indonesia for the summer? Go for it.

Want to spend your summers writing that novel you've always wanted to write? Go for it.

Want to tutor on the side and bring in extra income instead? Your decision.

Not a lot of jobs offer that level of flexibility or freedom. Easy to imagine a social media campaign that showcases this.

But the solution isn't to raise wages on an already comparable overpaid and underworked class of government employees (in comparison to their government employee peers).

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Fluid-Wrongdoer6120 t1_jbz77ux wrote

They already know about the summers off, trust me. Your campaign would be wasted money.

And again, you seem to think basic economics of supply and demand don't apply because YOU consider teachers to already be overpaid. My father likes to rail against the campaign to raise minimum wage, because he thinks "the dumb burger flippers" don't DESERVE $15 an hour. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse when I have to remind him that it doesn't matter a damn lick what he thinks their talents "deserve." The fact that restaurants can't get enough people to come work for them for $10/hr, by default, means they're worth more than that simply by laws of supply and demand. I'd make the same argument for teachers.

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Euphoric-March-8159 t1_jbt39p7 wrote

Raise salaries.

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jekomo OP t1_jbt3z9o wrote

As long as property taxes are tied to salaries, I think this is very difficult. I’ve been through 4 or 5 contract negotiation cycles, and even a 0.5-2% average raise can receive major pushback and stalls settlement. I know PSEA is pushing for a minimum starting salary of $60,000, which could help. I think Maryland has done this.

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Blaze987 t1_jbtjcdp wrote

Yeah, property taxes are the worst way to fund schools. It causes extreme disparity between areas. That and I personally believe property tax is the most unjust tax.

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IamSauerKraut t1_jbtwbmf wrote

>property taxes are the worst way to fund schools

Folks always focus on property taxes but property taxes only provide some of the revenue stream. Let's also look at the earned income tax. Places where the average household income is above $100k gain quite a bit in collected EIT whereas places where the average household income is 50k or less end up having to do without. Maybe give less state aid to the better off places and give more to those places with more resources?

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IamSauerKraut t1_jbtvwws wrote

When many districts start at 42k, 60k is a bit much. I know things stretched out a bit thanks to the trump virus, but let's be real here.

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kayotik94 t1_jbt3jel wrote

Pay considerably better. Better benefits. More support resources for new teachers. School supplies are compensated by school. Lesson planning on one's own time is compensated. Just to name a few things off the top of my head.

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Analysis-Special t1_jbt7ecm wrote

Pay more.

I did my my under grad and grad school in PA and got my licenses in PA. Because PA was also not paying teachers enough we were forced to follow my wife’s career and moved to Wisconsin while I still had my temps or whatever the probationary license was called, and WIDPI wouldn’t give me a general science license without going back to school even though my recent PRAXIS scores were in their exceptional range. So I stopped teaching without ever really getting started.

Now I work in a bicycle shop and make more than teachers in my area. That’s absolutely ridiculous.

Every now and the I think about going back to it, but I’m not willing to go back to the starting pay rate for a new teacher.

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PhyPhillosophy t1_jbt3q20 wrote

Everyone knows teachers get paid dog shit, who would want to do that?

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HomicidalHushPuppy t1_jbt6olx wrote

Depends on where you live. My district starts at $50k and caps out at $120k in as little as 10 years. We definitely need to increase it in a lot of districts though.

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SamuelLCompassion t1_jbtd5e2 wrote

If you take out student loans to earn a four year degree for a job that pays $50k, more than 25% of your monthly take-home pay would be going to Sallie Mae.

Maybe the answer is substantially discounted tuition for education majors?

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HomicidalHushPuppy t1_jbtfe74 wrote

Income-based payments and they have the potential for PSLF.

But if they started trimming the fat from college curricula, then we could reduce loan burden for everyone.

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IamSauerKraut t1_jbtvi9b wrote

>if they started trimming the fat from college curricula

What would this "fat" be?

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HomicidalHushPuppy t1_jbu232f wrote

Courses completely unrelated to your major. I studied physics...I had to take creative writing courses, history of religion, a film studies course, etc. Being a "well-rounded" student isn't worth it for the time and incredible financial commitment.

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IamSauerKraut t1_jbua2f3 wrote

Writing courses should be part of every field of study. I suspect the other 2 you selected from a menu of courses that included history and maybe a language?

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HomicidalHushPuppy t1_jbubc7l wrote

I agree writing courses can be useful. But in a field like physics, I should need to take a creative writing course. I also had to take a technical writing course that was much more useful and appropriate.

As far as the others, yes, they were from a menu of elective courses I had to take, but my point was they're not related to the major and I've never needed to know a damn thing from them. I spent a ton of money and wasted a lot of time on courses I didn't need. It's a common practice at universities that has to end as part of a reformation to make education more affordable.

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IamSauerKraut t1_jbuciqj wrote

Writing courses, in their many forms, are much more useful than the binary view would make them. Same with any number of other courses that not only round you out as a person but also helps you think beyond the binary world of physics/math/engineering.

You selected the courses you now describe as useless but you must have viewed them as worthy when you selected them, non? If anything, you should have used them to help bolster your GPA.

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Muscadine76 t1_jbtew0q wrote

The thing is, not only is there school/district variation, but also: compared to what? Median teacher salaries are 56k in PA and typically ranging 47-68k, according to salary.com data. Compare with a BSW social worker’s median salary of 66k in PA and typically ranging 59-74k. Or a newly graduated RN: 67k ranging 60-77k. The low end ranges for these jobs are higher than the median salary for teachers.

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Hazel1928 t1_jbu4b69 wrote

But look at days off per year. Conservatively, teachers get 20% more.

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bambiying t1_jbupk3n wrote

They also work a lot more outside of their paid hours.

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Hazel1928 t1_jbuq1ua wrote

Nurses and social workers also work outside their paid hours. I work in a nursing home and the typical nurse is there an hour after her shift finishing computer work five days a week. Social workers have more irregular extra hours, but they have them. Also teachers aren’t scheduled for an 8 hour day so their extra hours compared to those other jobs shouldn’t begin being counted until they work more than 8 hours. I know many teachers work far more than 8 hours. But I wonder if you added up the hours worked per year how it would compare.

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Muscadine76 t1_jbuydqb wrote

Nurses typically receive overtime for extra work. Teachers do not.

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Muscadine76 t1_jbuz27m wrote

Everyone doesn’t consider more unpaid time off for lower pay an upside, especially when teachers commonly spend much of that time training or preparing for the next year/ session, and/or have to get creative about a side hustle to make enough money. That’s besides the already cited issues by other commenters about teachers commonly having to use their own money for supplies, and working long hours for various tasks beyond the school day (lesson planning, grading, etc).

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raredad t1_jbu71og wrote

That's a masters, plus 45 with 10 years served. Hardly worth it and that's at a better school district.

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mpen_13 t1_jbt8izf wrote

More pay more benefits and more protection from unruly parents and students.

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SeptasLate t1_jbuywlw wrote

Benefits and protection in most of PA are ok as long as you're not in a charter or some private schools

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Sea_Childhood_810 t1_jbu4e3s wrote

I’m a teacher in PA with 17 years experience. That brings me to the top of the pay scale, making 90k. I think the pay is fair, although I think starting salaries need to increase. I struggled when I first started. Here are the problems in my opinion:

  1. There is no portability in pay. I would like to move districts, to be closer to my aging parents. However, that would mean starting over on no higher then step three of a new district’s pay scale. No district is going to higher me and pay me for my experience. Why would a young person want to be locked into that for 30 years?

  2. Better support for newer teachers. I have seen too many young teacher come in, get the worst teaching assignments with the most out of control kids and get no support from admin

  3. The burden of standardized testing on math and language arts teachers in particular is ridiculous. The level of rigor is legit hard and developmentally inappropriate. I teach 7th grade, the amount of in-depth analysis required requires background knowledge and life experience that my 12 year olds don’t have.

  4. finally this is probably the biggest one for me. I don’t get treated like a professional. Teachers are required to obtain their masters degree in order to move to the instructional to certificate in Pennsylvania, but we are treated like professional people that whole college degrees. Everything we do a second-guessed. First and second-guessed by children in our classroom. I have students that argue with me about everything including other students names in the class. I have students to talk about Andrew Tate, and how awesome he is and I have to sit there and listen to it. And that’s a direct product of their parents. They feel comfortable questioning us disobeying us because their parents feel comfortable questioning everything that we do. No one’s child is ever wrong. No one’s child ever lies. No one’s child could ever possibly need discipline from the teacher. And then this carries over into administration. I spent 90 minutes a day with my students and some of them, the ones that I have in homeroom close to three hours. However, I’m not even given the barest information about struggles with that child might be going through. If somethings happening at home, they don’t tell me they keep it on a need to know basis and apparently hi the adults in the building that spends the most time with that child doesn’t need to know. And I’m talking about serious issues like self harm, suicide ideation, drugs, and alcohol. I should at least know about these things so I can look out for that student while they’re in my care, but instead, I’m treated like an untrustworthy person that can’t be given this information because I might go blab it to the rest of the neighborhood. Honestly, teaching is insulting. Next week I get evaluated by my principal, who has never taught a day in his life-he was a guidance counselor.

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Iamno1ofconsequence t1_jbudv4m wrote

Stop treating them like they are worthless. Pay them a lot more. Don't blame them for your kid not doing well (it's not just your kid they have to deal with). Teach your kids to not be assholes. Don't expect them to buy supplies for their classes in school, fund the things they need to do their jobs.

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Allemaengel t1_jbtfi9u wrote

I left teaching during that time period after 18 years due to a cheap ass school board in a wealthy school district in one of PA's wealthiest counties. Their cheapness resulted in my not even closely keeping up with the COL.

Shitty administration and unrealistic testing/curriculum standards created by clueless state and federal level legislators and bureaucrats didn't help either.

Ultimately my class sizes grew dramatically, student needs exploded, and virtually zero additional resources were ever provided to assist. You were on your own with hypocritical administrators ever ready to criticize and and everything. Meanwhile, I'd go years without a raise causing financial stress at home as well.

Ironically, I had almost zero problems with students or their parents. They weren't the problem. Our politicians, ed department bureaucrats and administrators who never get out of their offices to understand what current life in the trenches is like. Those are the problems along with bad ed law and shit funding formulas

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pgh9fan t1_jbt9bja wrote

Free Lebanon Bologna.

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IamSauerKraut t1_jbtwhlb wrote

The town where Lebanon Bologna is made is high in resources and the district does pretty well. But the trumpkins are tying to upset that apple cart with their "no new taxes" pledge.

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8Draw t1_jbt45rf wrote

  1. Have the state pay its share of school funding. PA has reduced its contribution, and it's had the predictable effect of starving poor school districts by sheltering wealth and opportunity in wealthy counties.

Everything else is less important. But we also need federal action to fund teachers themselves like the critical public resource they are.

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IamSauerKraut t1_jbtv89j wrote

Were the RWNJs to stop their war on teachers, more college grads would consider teaching as a profession.

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Dredly t1_jbtye8r wrote

Nothing, because nobody wants to do anything about it, and so they won't because the people who are in power are the ones benefiting from the current system

​

If the state was actually remotely serious about it?

- combine districts, there is no reason for the insane overhead of multiple districts everywhere.

- eliminate parents and local school boards being responsible for anything because they are NEVER right

- Stop allowing teachers to buy their own school supplies,

- Implement free or massively reduced state school tuition but you must stay in state to teach for X years,

- Eliminate the ongoing education requirements except for in your exact course of study.

- Fix the stupid bullshit Cyber schools getting funding

​

Oh and the ones people won't like

- eliminate pensions entirely from the entire state,

- year round school

- all day kindergarten

- fully tax payer funded pre-k programs state wide

- stop adjunct professors from teaching any course over a 101 level unless no suitable prof can be found (WITH PROOF of search), and Adjuncts get paid the same as professors.

- stop underpaying teachers aid, subs, etc

​

PA could absolutely do everything... they just won't

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Gonzostewie t1_jbvxrb4 wrote

>stop underpaying teachers aid, subs, etc

This one hits home big time. I got my teaching license and took the first job offered to me: In school suspension teacher. My pay maxed out after 2 years at $12.50/hr yet they wanted me to have/maintain a license. That shit wouldn't even cover my loans and I already had a kid at that point.

I thought it would be a foot in the door to a full time position in my actual subject area. Every year I was there a position opened up but they didn't offer it to me because nobody wants the job dealing with the "bad kids" and I was way too good at it. I fuckin quit after 3years. The day I left I could have had an army of those "bad kids" follow me into battle without question because I was the only one to treat any of them like a real person. I don't even teach anymore, not for that kind of bullshit money.

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Dredly t1_jbvyvmb wrote

This is the same mentality that leads Adjuncts to but their asses to run great courses in colleges, hoping for the chance to become full time or tenured...

​

that carrot is awful, and needs removed

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hypotenoos t1_jbuswm4 wrote

Stop expecting schools to be raising kids and get back to actually teaching.

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LarryDavid42069 t1_jbtwvey wrote

Pay them more than burger flippers and ditch diggers.

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300blakeout t1_jbtzuba wrote

I know many teachers who retired early because they were tired of not being able to teach anymore. State has too much involvement. Everything is about money. Yadayada.

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Covidicus_Vaximus t1_jbukzcr wrote

Treat teachers with respect and back them up against the QAnuts

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Impressive_Bus11 t1_jbuollo wrote

Pay them. Stock their classrooms with the supplies they need to do their job. Free the copy machine.

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GoubD t1_jbu49dg wrote

When politicians demonize the profession, HBG regulations hamstring admin from allowing discipline to occur, the lack of quality pay and the helicopter nature of parents, no wonder ppl don't want to teach. I certainly wouldn't.

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thatprettyrosegirl t1_jbv0h93 wrote

Honestly, even an 80,000 salary (at least for me) can't compensate for the toxic work environment in a lot of school districts.

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PatientNice t1_jbvfc08 wrote

Give them better pay. Stop debasing their profession. Provide better support. Keep schools out of politics. Give them an effective budget. Create a good infrastructure for all students.

You know, basically do everything Republicans don’t want for schools.

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Thyki69 t1_jbyyumu wrote

Especially with older kids it is impossible to keep politics out of school. Many schools in the USA have a good amount of money coming in, the issue is how it’s spent.

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Trout-Population t1_jbtfey3 wrote

Lower tuition costs- Many people want to go into teaching but are unwilling to take out a 100k loan in order to do it.

Raise teacher's salaries- The higher the pay, the more applicants. Pretty simple economics here.

Vote in school board elections (and really all elections) to elect pro-education candidates- Across the State and the country, right wing anti education nut jobs have been running in off year, low turn out school board elections and are winning. Their ridiculous policies are causing teachers to leave in droves. This isn't just isolated to local elections either. In Florida, teachers are quitting in droves due to the disgusting policies of Ron Desantis. It breaks my heart seeing all those photos of bookshelves empty or covered up.

Continue to fight the pandemic/sickness in general/embrace scientific consensus in public health policy/law- Schools (especially elementary and younger) are giant petri dishes, and many teachers have quit due to the fact that they just keep getting sick. If we get vaccination rates up, wear masks during cold and flu season, promote hand washing, avoiding crowds, etc, then teachers will be less likely to call out sick or quit due to illness.

Figure out a more equitable way to fund our public schools- Recently, the PA Supreme Court struck down the current way PA schools are funded, which essentially has been keeping schools from wealthy districts well funded and inner city schools underfunded. This is only half the battle. We need to rebuild the way we fund our public schools in a more equitable way to ensure that inner city schools have the funds they need, considering that these are the schools most desperate for teachers.

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IamSauerKraut t1_jbtwrvj wrote

>Vote in school board elections (and really all elections) to elect pro-education candidates-

A key part of the equation. I know of a district where 5 seats are up for election, but only 4 turned in petitions. 2 of those are pro-education; the other 2 are hand-picked by an anti-public school lobbyist.

3

Old_Moment7914 t1_jbugs0v wrote

Free life insurance and body armor would be a good start and not electing a governor like Ron deathsantis ( no more Corbetts !)

4

bignick222 t1_jbu46e0 wrote

That easy get the politicians to stop acting like ass hole And pay then and more protect them and the kids

3

c4halo3 t1_jbuhrhi wrote

All of the obvious things that others have said. I think you also have to look at around 2011 there was an abundance of teachers and it was impossible to find a job. Even now, I graduated in 2017 and it took me about 5 years to get a contracted position. Teaching in PA is one of the best states thanks to the unions.

3

Gonzostewie t1_jbvy4wp wrote

I quit in 2015 because of the saturated market and I wasn't making enough money with 2 kids to keep running the ISS room for $12.50/hr. Fuck that.

1

obsolete-man t1_jbuz0xy wrote

Better pay and working conditions. Less interference from politicians,

3

blinkdmb t1_jbuzk66 wrote

I am a social worker and if you think teachers are paid poorly strap in.

3

MildlyInfuria8ing t1_jbvl5w4 wrote

As someone who is not in the field but knows some teachers personally:

  1. Increase/ even out pay. Meaning fix pay scales in underfunded schools and re evaluate 'overfunded' school pay.
  2. Going hand in hand with pay; create a teacher fund for classroom supplies. My son's teacher pays for her students in class crafts (2nd grade) and we live in a respectable tax bracket district.
  3. To combat the 'throw money at it' belief that can creep into education, use evidence-based approaches to addressing educational shortcomings. Make sure they are tailored to the community and student body.
  4. Don't allow politics to dictate policy. There is an unfortunate grassroots attempt to restrict education based on religious belief or hyped up fake news. This is spilling over into parents acting like children at board meetings, shouting, and some trying to 'infiltrate' boards in order to enact restrictive and damaging policies. Please stop. No person looking at the teaching profession wants to see this sort of crap spill over into their classroom eventually.
  5. Hire actual teachers to lead the department of education, and make sure those in leadership roles actually understand the battles teachers at all levels face.

I am sure actual teachers will be able to speak more to this than I will, but this is some of the stuff I've seen friends in the profession rail against. There is no black and white approach to education.

3

Black_Fish1 t1_jbu06d7 wrote

I’m a welder with a 4 year degree. I’d have to go back for more college courses to become a welding instructor. The starting salary for vocational teachers in my part of PA is less than half of what I am making as a welder. And none of my co workers make tick toks at work.

2

ponte95ma t1_jbuqehm wrote

This thread's refrain of "better pay" is starting to sound like the "not enough time" chorus that I hear from the public (and private) school teachers I've worked with my entire professional career.

Pay is not the heart of the matter.

It's about respect.

Respect for those who choose to teach -- absolutely.

But also respect for those learning.

And the pandemic put the lie to everything that we told our children about schooling.

Pay and other spending that our teachers and students touch and see can be signals of respect.

But as OP began to itemize only at the end of their post, there are many immaterial challenges to our teachers and schools.

No student -- or for that matter, parent -- would ask a teacher why they teach, and feel satisfaction with a response of "For the bucks." Quite the contrary.

And fundamentally, conveying to children that the adults around them "follow the money" does a poisonous disservice to the teachers (especially the Title I teachers I work with -- but the administrators, too) who have kept the faith through the pandemic.

I just came back from visiting half a dozen Title I classrooms in one of the few states larger than Pennsylvania -- and hanging out with those teachers late into the night. I heard them catch up with each other over pizzas and beers, and volunteer their backstories.

Could every single one of them earn much more in other fields? Yes. (Does this also reflect on their particular subject matter expertise? It does.)

But having seen them pouring their hearts into their craft by day, I know a light would extinguish in each if they did leave the profession.

Actually, about 36 lights per, times four or five preps.

(Further evidence that teachers are not in it for $: my current project doesn't compensate them any better than their union-mandated hourly. But still, they engage because they want to become better for their kids.)

To be clear ... our teachers definitely deserve better salary ... safer and more welcoming working conditions ... adequate supplies for which they don't pay out of pocket or resort to fundraising.

But no one has ever gone into education to make bank.

The teachers still teaching our children do so because of our children.

So respect for u/jekomo.

Can we respect OP's colleagues enough to get past/go deeper than "just throw money at it/them"?

'cause all the cheese in the world doesn't stand a chance "amid constant attacks, accusations of indoctrination, less teacher autonomy, etc."

These unpopular opinions brought to you by a proud graduate of this state's public schools who benefitted from its free and reduced lunch and summer programs, stayed in-state for college, holds teacher certification here, pays taxes here, and has worked on several multi-year, multi-million-dollar private and federally-funded educational efforts launched or co-designed by teachers.

P.S. It is not lost on me that PSEA's own "issues & action" tab on this exact subject has gone AWOL.

2

SeptasLate t1_jbv0zuj wrote

While I don't really disagree with you it does play into the whole arguement of "you should be ok with the pay freeze because you're here for the kids and we respect you."

People don't go into education to make bank but a lot of people don't go into it or leave it because pay is inadequate.

4

Askarus t1_jbuwfph wrote

The answer nobody wants to hear is pay them more.

2

Manchu4-9INF t1_jbuznju wrote

Pay increase. I’d say pay incentives but then you’d have teachers passing them along like what happened to me. That’d be bad.

2

zerooze t1_jbv7m3o wrote

I was in school to be a teacher and I got a seasonal job with the federal government. I realized quickly that if I went full time, I would make as much there as I would teaching, so I dropped out. That was 27 years ago. After several promotions, I'm making 80k/yr. I could never have dreamed of that was a teacher. I was very passionate about teaching too.

2

Myron_Bolitar t1_jbvqlk9 wrote

I propose we stop trying to make more teachers and instead focus on making less kids. If we loser the number of kids the amount of teachers we have will be sufficient.

-sarcasm

2

Sukkit74 t1_jbvs2b4 wrote

They need more money, but right wing politicians pitch fits anytime budgets for education get increased. It’s such an easy fix that would benefit everyone, but pigheaded stubbornness prevents it.

2

alternatingflan t1_jbvsteb wrote

First, undo the insane East and West PASSHE consolidation. Then start funding them all closer to the levels of the 1970’s. Then provide student loans at the 1970’s level: 6% state and 3% federal. The 14 PASSHE schools were all originally teacher colleges with a great record of feeding high numbers of new teachers to the PA, and the nation’s, classrooms, until the last 30 years when non-union PSU - with around 25 branch campuses - were converted to 4-year degree granting schools providing more than agricultural higher education to students, and unfair competition to PASSHE schools.

2

heili t1_jc2f7fu wrote

The name "Penn West" just sounds like a shitty for-profit trade school designed to bilk people out of money a la ITT Tech.

2

Yen-sama t1_jbwenyv wrote

Pay them what they're worth, make sure they have what they need to do their job, and treat them with decency and respect.

2

Mysterious487 t1_jbz2hon wrote

Support staff positions are the most difficult to fill at our district. No one wants to be a classroom aide, custodian, maintenance person, cafeteria worker, secretary, or bus driver at $12/hour to start. The school board gives elaborate raises to the superintendent (making $170,000/ year with no doctorate) and other administrators; and they give peanuts to teachers ($45,000 starting salary) and support staff. I appreciate that the PSEA wants a minimum of $20/hour for support staff and $60,000 for teachers.

2

ComprehensiveCat7515 t1_jbu0sg6 wrote

Pay them. Make students go through metal detectors. Lock the doors after students arrive in the morning and screen anyone coming after that time.

1

Worland102688 t1_jbuad6l wrote

Pay a decent wage, fund the damn schools, resist the policy bullshit other states are forcing into the schools.

1

ipresnel t1_jburstt wrote

Find a time machine and go back in time.

1

blinkdmb t1_jbuzf5n wrote

Drop the Praxis tests and have other quality control measures other than a standardized test.

1

SeptasLate t1_jbv1oxx wrote

Aren't praxis tests just a standardized test?

1

blinkdmb t1_jbv281c wrote

Yes. Exactly my point. It is a standardized test and teachers must pass 2 of them outside their classes and majors.

1

SeptasLate t1_jbv2w6x wrote

My bad I misread what you wrote.

My issue is knowing how many secondary ed students failed their praxis, and knowing how easy it is, I think they definitely need to keep it but it should be free for students to take. There needs to he some bare minimum requirement.

1

blinkdmb t1_jbvozgz wrote

It is easy for you. My SIL is a brilliant teacher but she had some trouble taking it. Took her 5x before she finally passed. Some people are awful at tests or have test anxiety.

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SeptasLate t1_jbvqxl1 wrote

I've heard of issues with the elementary ed praxis, in that it's more advanced than what teachers need to know. But for the content specific courses there really needs to be some form of baseline to ensure no matter what university a teacher went to, they have a basic understanding of the subject they're teaching. Maybe there can be some accounting for test anxiety beyond accounting for GPA

1

blinkdmb t1_jbvr7qv wrote

That makes sense for the secondary ones. I agree. It was the el ed one she couldn't pass.

2

JessieTheValet t1_jbv2yfc wrote

Vote like the future of your children's education depends on it. Vote in local elections. Vote in all elections. Actually find out what people believe in before you vote for them. Open primaries. Eliminate gerrymandering. Campaign finance reform. Prosecute people who lie and cheat to get into office.

And then do all the other stuff people have listed in this thread.

1

Unlikely-Ad-477 t1_jbvstmh wrote

How about perks like student loan forgiveness on top of better pay? Oh and maybe all the school shootings might be influencing the exodus from teaching, maybe doing something about that might help.

1

queenoftheidiots t1_jbwkmm2 wrote

Go after people that have degree not in teaching and give them the training and incentives. You have less pension debt because they don’t put in as many years and they are mature and can handle a lot of the stuff teachers have to deal with today.

1

DamonRunnon t1_jbx38pf wrote

Stop screwing over the ones that are there for a good beginning.

1

TheCircusSands t1_jbxin5r wrote

A bit of an aside, but Ezra Klein recently did a show about issues with men and boys and one of things highlighted was the lack of male teachers. This problem will only snowball as boys are less likely to pursue teaching if there are no men as their teachers.

1

fire_stopper t1_jbxyrkp wrote

My daughter is a Freshman on a Music Education track, at a college just across the river in NJ. She’ll earn a license in NJ on completion, but would need to add in some additional coursework to get one here. That’s certainly a hurdle to anyone coming here from elsewhere.

As it stands, given how toxic politics in this state are around schools and teacher pay, I’ve been encouraging her to look in and move to NJ when she’s done. I’m sure they have their issues, but I’ve an overall sense educators are typically treated much better on the other side than here.

1

ronreadingpa t1_jby9mhu wrote

Brings to mind the perpetual shortage of truck drivers. And yet companies always seem to find people. How? Simple, lowering standards, immigration, and technology (many trucks are automatics).

Figure the same will happen with teaching. Already is. The last point about tech is one many teachers don't think much of in regard to qualifications. Virtual learning, which many teachers and even unions often advocated for, could also lead to less credentialed teachers replaced by teacher aides acting primarily as monitors watching over the students as they're instructed remotely.

One remote teacher could potentially teach several classrooms at once. Even for instances they can't, they could be located anywhere and hired as a contractor with minimal benefits. Many ways I see could play out.

I don't put much faith in school districts / taxpayers ponying up the considerable extra funds to do what some are suggesting. Instead seeking more shortcuts. They'll be exceptions of course, but in many places, the more well-to-do parents will increasingly seek out chartered schools, parochial schools, and private schools. Leaving the remainder, often including students with special needs, to the public schools to deal at the detriment of teachers, students, and the community.

In short, technology could allow schools to reduce their accredited teaching staff considerably. Combine that with lowered standards and immigration, the shortage of teachers will be mitigated. Not solved, but handled good enough to keep schools running.

1

Thyki69 t1_jbyvij0 wrote

Realistically a person don’t have to major in education to be able to teach… I think increase in pay, and also actually hiring teachers.. I have heard of schools keeping younger teachers as subs for a long time instead of hiring them. Also I think making it easier to fire bad teachers would help the school system overall

1

Responsible-Type-392 t1_jbvvijv wrote

Is it true teachers need masters degrees?

That seems stupid.

0

SeptasLate t1_jbwbvwf wrote

That's for a level 2 cert and so you can keep teaching. Only a bachelors and a certification are needed to begin teaching.

It's important educators continue their education and most of the time it's paid for.

1

dbolg22 t1_jbweees wrote

Pay them more money. And have career paths that don’t end up with just classroom teaching for 25 years. That’s boring.

0

Realistic-kind837 t1_jbxb3c0 wrote

I know many teachers with a masters in elementary Ed and a minor in speech development and we're getting paid over 90+ per year. Four of them quit and only in their 30's because of how ridiculous the NYC Ed system became. The dept of Ed needs to seriously look at all the BS . Sorry , but indoctrination is at the top of the list. They will continue to leave and get poor quality teachers. The children are also leaving and going to private or Catholic schools, most aren't even Catholic but it's cheaper than the private schools. I also know two teachers that left and moved to TX and FL and are currently teaching there. We are going to see a major shift in certain states in the upcoming years for many things, but especially education standards in the public school system.

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[deleted] t1_jby4z3h wrote

[deleted]

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Realistic-kind837 t1_jbya72y wrote

Its " weird".. did you forget how to talk nicely to ppl even when you disagree with them? Apparently so.

1

[deleted] t1_jbyarbt wrote

[deleted]

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Realistic-kind837 t1_jbyeqfi wrote

I'm relating it to the entire NYC dept of Ed. You're specifically calling my personal thoughts on it as weird that's why. Do I really need to explain this?

Maybe I shouldn't have posted at all since the heading is in regards to PA schools and I'm discussing NYC. I am not an educator. I live in PA and my children attend public school. Me and my children love the PA district we are in and all of the teachers here.

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Realistic-kind837 t1_jbyg0hi wrote

And why subscribe to Christianity if you speak of it in such a negative way?

0

[deleted] t1_jbyh3iq wrote

[deleted]

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Realistic-kind837 t1_jbyhswy wrote

You're active in the Christianity community reddit site- it's right on your profile that everyone can see. You seem to look for arguments instead of resolution and that's not my thing. Have a wonderful day Karrius12

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[deleted] t1_jbyix4m wrote

[deleted]

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Realistic-kind837 t1_jbykvlw wrote

Yes, that.

I'm sorry that happened to you and I can now understand why you have the negative feelings. However, in most of your posts you're argumentative. Having a discussion to make things better for all is what I'm about.

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[deleted] t1_jbylfgj wrote

[deleted]

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Realistic-kind837 t1_jbymnd8 wrote

Sure ya do...lol. I can see exactly what you're looking for - an argument. I'm sorry, Karrius12, I'm not going to give you that.

Like I said earlier, it's what my friends have told me. Their stories are why I said that. I don't see that personally in the PA district that all of my children are in, so there is nothing here I want to stop.

0

worstatit t1_jbxo2sl wrote

Locally, a public school teaching job couldn't be had prior to covid and the current curriculum intrusions by nuts. Teachers make full year salaries for nine months of short day work (180 days vs 280 for everyone else), with extensive holiday breaks, sick and vacation days, and medical benefits. Because no one was vacating the positions, fewer students opted to obtain education degrees. That, and the general worker shortage, are to blame.

0

yankeeman9 t1_jbv72wa wrote

Revert to the days when having a masters degree in any field qualified you to teach.

−1

Antique_Total_5473 t1_jbwfcoi wrote

This great experiment known as America is coming to an end. So, soon it will be every man, woman and child for themselves. You can thank the woke crowd for this eventual outcome. There will be no need for teachers in a lawless, dog eat dog world.

−1

chartreuse6 t1_jbv1ysv wrote

Get rid of the crappy teachers. I’ve seen teachers basically give up and just put in time once they’re tenured. They’re bored, the students are bored . Yet they get the same raise as the great teachers and are almost impossible to fire

−2

2014michave t1_jbtcm9k wrote

Enact merit based pay within public teaching.

−4

JesusOfBeer t1_jbu7nxi wrote

What metrics would be used to justify wage increases beyond cost of living adjustments?

7

2014michave t1_jbvhfpf wrote

They’d just need to be performance based metrics not based on tenure or whether one has a master’s degree. Is their no way to determine how well a teacher is doing by trying to gauge or determine what level of learning was attained by students based on test scores and other indicators of increased proficiency, . If a teacher puts together a great impactful lesson plan that results in increased engagement, maybe, or increased production of students with respect to their work in a class.

Do you not think it’s able to be determined whether a teacher failed or helped their students?

−3

JesusOfBeer t1_jbvucrv wrote

😂 knew it, you’re not informed enough in this area.

4

2014michave t1_jbvuxil wrote

I may not work in education but I know enough to know that teacher unions are some of the most egregiously functioning bodies of people I’ve ever seen, especially in the way that they manage and allocate their funds.

−2

Thyki69 t1_jbz05tk wrote

You can’t determine a person’s merit based on another person’s work/results. If a kid doesn’t care about school/learning, no teacher will be able to make them learn.

2

Hazel1928 t1_jbu40s4 wrote

More charter schools. They do more with less than traditional public schools. Instead of complaining that e very charter school student taxes X dollars from the district, say “wow, with only X dollars they have happier parents and teachers and higher test scores. We should have a charter in our district. And don’t use that tired excuse about cherry picking. I sub in a charter school and there are IEPs in every class.

−8

JesusOfBeer t1_jbu7vg2 wrote

Wow, why you gotta lie like that? All that shits been proven false

5

SeptasLate t1_jbv15ne wrote

Why would teachers want more schools where they make less, have less rights, less protections, and often less support?

3

Hazel1928 t1_jbv5sea wrote

I’m not an advocate for teachers. I’m an advocate for children and for education in America. Also, charter schools don’t seem to have any difficulty hiring teachers. The one closest to me is growing and growing. Also not included in this discussion is the value of the retirement benefits that teachers get, which is substantial and nurses and social workers don’t have that. They have 401ks.

−2

SeptasLate t1_jbvb7ss wrote

This asked how to attract teachers, and people in education know most teachers don't love charter schools. And as an aside children and education benefit from qualified and compensated teachers.

There's exceptions to the rule but every charter school I've worked at or with struggled to keep teachers for more than a couple years. They did do a good job at hiring teachers out of school or those without certifications required for public education. Statistically there hasn't been anything to show that they do more with less. The vast majority of charter schools perform at or below.

That's another good point, charter school teachers don't have access to pensions.

1

Hazel1928 t1_jbvc9fp wrote

I feel like teachers don’t like charter schools because they offer an alternative to a failing system. I don’t blame the failing system on teachers. I have worked in a public school as an occupational therapist, and I saw how hard the teachers worked. I think the special education teachers have an especially difficult job. I think we as a society need to revise our public education system from the ground up. That isn’t the fault of teachers, but they need to be open to new ideas to make education work better. Charter schools are laboratories to try out different systems.

And don’t forget, when you are complaining about how poorly teachers are compensated, that they have access to à valuable retirement plan which the professions you are comparing them wiith don’t.

−2

SeptasLate t1_jbvfpmx wrote

Do you really think teachers don't like charter school because they're trying to improve public education in America and its not because they promote a system where teachers have less pay, less benefits, less rights, and less protections?

And if you particularly respect special Ed teachers don't look at their compensation at charter schools. Although those schools get to choose if they accept disabled students so that might be fair.

Charter schools began as labratories but very rarely are they doing anything revolutionary. Almost all of them have copied models used in public schools. And why is such a key part of that new system of better education include the devaluation of educators? I am waiting for the solution to our problem with education in the US that doesn't involve the dismantling of public education.

What professions am I comparing teachers to? And I don't think removing pensions is a solution to attracting more people to the profession.

1

Hazel1928 t1_jbvg92z wrote

I didn’t say removing pensions is the solution. I said that people in this thread who are complaining that nurses and social workers earn more than teachers need to calculate the value of the retirement benefits that teachers get, where nurses and social workers don’t have anything comparable.

0

SeptasLate t1_jbviyek wrote

I mean I think nurses and social workers are also under compensated and suffer from the same problems that are undermining public education.

I just thought that charter schools are well known for rarely being a top destination for teachers and that more of them are nit going to cause more people to become teachers. I also thought saying teachers don't like charter schools just because they're a better alternative was disingenuous and disrespectful.

1

Hazel1928 t1_jbvkplm wrote

Well, it’s not so much teachers I have a quarrel with, its the NEA and the ATF. Both are resistant to change, and, in my opinion, concerned about looking out for teachers when I think all Americans should be able to agree that schools exist to serve students, not to serve teachers. I will repeat: American education needs to be reformed from the ground up. Education exists to serve students. But in order to serve students, they must find the ways to attract and retain effective teachers.

1

SeptasLate t1_jbvp188 wrote

Yes teachers unions and associations exist to protect teachers. Unions are also just collections of teachers, an issue with teachers unions is an issue with unionized teachers. Often what's good for students are usually good for teachers. Teachers unions have been known to fight for smaller classrooms, less of a focus on standardized testing, and greater support from specialists for students.

Teachers ability to organize is one of the few benefits and source of almost all of the benefits that attract people to the profession. Just compare education in states that have teachers unions and ones that don't. They better serve students.

Beyond that, what teachers or union says that schools are for anything but the education of students? What initiatives that would benefit students have unions prevented?

1

redditmbathrowaway t1_jbtnkx6 wrote

I see a lot of people commenting to increase the pay. Of course that would lead to more people going into teaching, but is it justified?

Teachers get ~3 months off during the summer, a week off for spring break, almost a month off for winter break, almost a week for Thanksgiving, along with all other federal holidays. That's almost 4.5 months off work per year.

So teachers are working less than 2/3 of the time an average white collar worker works. People cite "lesson planning" and claim it's outside of working hours, but teachers only teach ~3-4 classes each day, with the rest of the day preserved for this lesson planning and any miscellaneous tasks such as grading.

To that point, most teachers recycle the same content and lesson plans year after year. There's not some major planning that needs to be done before each year/class, comparable to a company's quarterly planning.

To summarize, if you project out the hourly wage of a teacher for actual time worked and factor in the value of their state-sponsored healthcare and pension benefits, they don't seem to be underpaid.

I'm not sure if raising their salaries to attract a new generation of talent is justified. Maybe there needs to be a campaign focused on highlighting the extreme benefits of time off - especially to a generation that seems to value their time more.

−14

rhodium32 t1_jbtvyvj wrote

So you think people don't know? They didn't go to school themselves and experience no school during the summer for themselves? The reality is that people know what a teachers schedule looks like, generally speaking, and they still don't want to get into education. Why? It's. Not. Worth. It. It's funny how people don't use the same reasoning when it comes to higher salaries for other occupations. Why do CEOs have to be paid so much? Because we have to pay that much to attract the best and the brightest, we're told. Oh really? But somehow higher salaries for teachers in order to attract people to the profession has to be "justified"? Frankly, your dismissal of the work that teachers do both in and out of the regular school year is insulting. Pay is not the only reason people don't get into teaching, but it's absolutely not helping.

6

redditmbathrowaway t1_jbuc2f8 wrote

Not dismissive. It's important work.

Just contesting that it's underpaid. If you look at the hourly rate, it's up there with many other professions.

0

IamSauerKraut t1_jbtx86n wrote

>Teachers get ~3 months off during the summer, a week off for spring break, almost a month off for winter break, almost a week for Thanksgiving, along with all other federal holidays. That's almost 4.5 months off work per year.

Dogshit comment. Most teachers are not free of their professional responsibilities when school is not in session. Keeping the certification requires continuing education and professional development. A good number of teachers act as club and class advisors, supervise School Play practice, oversee marching band, and coach the athletic teams. The classroom itself requires attention during breaks. Indeed, many teachers are getting classrooms ready for the new school year while you are still in your chaise lounge in your bikini sipping a fresh latte.

6

redditmbathrowaway t1_jbuctp7 wrote

Yeah, and they get paid to take on those extra responsibilities.

Haha and chaise lounge bikini? Don't know where you're getting that from. I'll get 15 days off next year (but probably take 10 or less). That's it. And I largely work when on vacation as necessary.

Work is quite literally my life. What I'm saying is market teaching as a profession where your career isn't so totally all-consuming. That could attract people who are interested in it, not purely driven by the financial upside, and who value their relative freedom and time more.

−2

jekomo OP t1_jbtunys wrote

These details are a little exaggerated, at least in my situation. I get 50 minutes of planning a day and a 30-minute lunch. Every other minute is with students. There are things that I reuse from year to year, sure, but there is a LOT of things that need changed or newly created. As an HS ELA teacher, I don’t have a textbook, so everything I use, I create or adapt from an idea I’ve found. But planning is only a tiny part. Grading essays is extremely time-consuming. I work at night and on the weekends. We get a week off at Christmas and long weekends otherwise. I work all summer, but at a different jobs. Lots of teachers have second jobs. We get from second week of June through third week of August. The main stressors are not students and parents; it’s constantly pounding from above for more, more, more and near-constant change to something “better.” Now that I am at the top of our salary scale after 18 years, I will not get more than a tiny .05-2.5% raise each year until I retire. Just some facts from someone active in the job right now.

5

Sea_Childhood_810 t1_jbvgqe8 wrote

Your numbers are wrong. Most teachers teach 6 or 7 periods a day, with 42 minutes for planning. Above the elementary level, teachers see up to 170 students per day. I teach middle school and see almost every student in the grade, 162 students. There is grading to be done in that 42 minutes as well. If I grade just two assignments per week, and spend only one minute per student’s work (which is laughable), that’s already over five hours of grading a week. I only get 3.5 hours of planning time per week. But we haven’t even gotten to lesson planning or all the other administrative tasks yet.

2

Gonzostewie t1_jbvzcbe wrote

>Teachers get ~3 months off during the summer, a week off for spring break, almost a month off for winter break, almost a week for Thanksgiving, along with all other federal holidays. That's almost 4.5 months off work per year.

>So teachers are working less than 2/3 of the time an average white collar worker works. People cite "lesson planning" and claim it's outside of working hours, but teachers only teach ~3-4 classes each day, with the rest of the day preserved for this lesson planning and any miscellaneous tasks such as grading.

All of this is absolute horseshit. All the teachers I know and have worked with teach more classes, get almost no time during the working day to get anything done because prep periods get filled with tutoring/makeup work, meetings and bureaucratic paperwork. If they don't do after hour work at home, they'd get called a shitty teacher more than the other names oblivious shitbirds call them already.

2

throwawayamd14 t1_jbuben5 wrote

I saw a guy say he’s making 90k, that’s more monthly than senior electrical engineer roles pay in pa if it’s broken done by hours worked per year. They seem to be paid ok, but you’ll just get down voted

−1

SeptasLate t1_jbv1mv6 wrote

In a lot of parts of pa that's a higher than the cap and twice as much as the starting salary.

Going from bartender to educator shouldn't be a pay cut

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throwawayamd14 t1_jbv4dam wrote

Where in PA are they starting at 45k? My local sd is 60k.

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SeptasLate t1_jbv9exi wrote

From when I was looking at jobs last year schools in delco, monco, and York counties but the average is probably closer to 48-50k. I'd imagine other parts of the state are less competitive.

Starting at 60k has to be close to the top in the state.

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