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Aggravating_Foot_528 t1_jc8dk6s wrote

Places that tax 401k contributions don't tax them on the way back out. Basically makes them a state level Roth.

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ProfessorDerp22 t1_jc8ewd0 wrote

Sure, assuming you plan on staying and retiring in PA.

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Aggravating_Foot_528 t1_jc8hu70 wrote

There may be a way to prove that it was taxed going into a 401k by one state so that if you move to another that taxes it on its way out it may not be taxes. That's easy enough to figure out

Edit: I was wrong. You follow the tax laws of the state you are currently in. So you can be double taxed - taxes when put in in pa and when take out elsewhere if they tax that. But also you can avoid all state taxes - work/live in Ohio and don't pay state income tax on 401k contributions, then retire to PA and take them out tax free. https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=215167

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Hashtaglibertarian t1_jcb6hsn wrote

Damn that is some shit right there. They really do screw people over in every state.

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Aggravating_Foot_528 t1_jcb8ily wrote

The key is if you put all your money in in PA to move to a state where they don't tax it at all (no income tax) or IL or... Alabama? Where they don't tax it coming out of the retirement acct.

I guess it would take Congress to pass a law to harmonize the system if Congress itself constitutionally.can. I'm not sure they can because states can levy their own taxes without the federal government. Maybe the federal government could arm twist like they did with the drinking and smoking age.

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Hashtaglibertarian t1_jcbph2w wrote

I couldn’t even think of a solution so props to you for even putting that together. I love solution people ☺️

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BluCurry8 t1_jca8809 wrote

Or you live in a state that does not tax retirement income

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BEHodge t1_jc93z4a wrote

Fuck That. I’m headed to Greece or Uruguay. Forced to live here for career for the next twenty years, I’ll be damned if I’m stuck here for my death.

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_jcayhb8 wrote

So mad about taxes you're moving to the third world to avoid paying them lol. That is some Facebook Grandpa All-Star stuff.

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hippata2023 t1_jcbaofg wrote

I can't imagine why anybody would retire in PA. The very first requirement I'm going to have of anyplace I retire to is that it can never snow.

This state's awful and being old here is just asking to slip and break a hip.

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MailOrderDog t1_jcbehh1 wrote

I'm going to put my snowblower in the back of my truck and drive south until someone asks what it is. Then I'll know I've found my new home.

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vectorizer99 t1_jc8fqd9 wrote

You just have to stick around a while to retire here. :-)

No taxes on 401k or IRA withdrawals, or pensions or Social Security. Our federal income was 6 figures last year, but for PA our income was so low we qualified for tax forgiveness to pay $0 in PA income taxes.

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therealbobstark t1_jc8s7oc wrote

How many people will have a pension in 30 years.

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sirdeionsandals t1_jc8t0kq wrote

Approximately 6

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Steelwolf73 t1_jc9y8s2 wrote

PA has a fairly large Government and military employee population. So more then you might think

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ITcurmudgeon t1_jcawrg0 wrote

Fairly large? We have one of the largest, most bloated legislatures in the nation... If not THE largest. And they are insanely wasteful in their spending for what little they get done.

PA's bloated legislature

2nd largest legislature

Edit - My bad, thought you were referring to our state gov. My comment still stands though.

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_jcazapu wrote

Pennsylvania's entire state budget for 2022 was $42.5b. Ohio's state budget for the same year was over $80b for a smaller population and a smaller economy.
 
Pennsylvania's budget per capita is the third lowest in the country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_budgets

 

People in this sub, and on Grandpa's Facebook feed, love to hoot and holler about how wasteful the state government here is but the numbers don't bear it out.

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ITcurmudgeon t1_jcb65tf wrote

I wasn't talking about the state budget, I was referring to the actual legislative body, our representatives, who make the laws. Next to New York, we have the largest, most expensive legislature in the nation.

For how large and costly they are, with their exceptionally high salaries, with their numerous assistants, and their assistants assistants, and their personal expenditures which they fight tooth and nail against disclosing publicly, they really get precious little done.

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_jcb7kmi wrote

> I wasn't talking about the state budget, I was referring to the actual legislative body,

 
Can you tell me exactly where you think the pay for the legislative body comes from?
 
This is a perfect Facebook Grandpa post. Short on numbers, long on ranting and feels.

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ITcurmudgeon t1_jcb972l wrote

If criticizing our legislature for wasteful, unnecessary spending for self-enrichment is "perfect Facebook, grandpa" post, then so be it.

I'm pretty sure I linked to numbers in my previous post, but here's some more reading:

PA legislature crooked spending

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_jcba2ct wrote

To clarify, you think that ~$51m a year is an exorbitant amount to operate a legislature?
 
That is less than 1/10th of the city of Pittsburgh School District's yearly budget. It is 1/10 of 1% of the state's budget.
 
It isn't 1965 and bread doesn't cost a nickel a loaf anymore, grandpa.

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ITcurmudgeon t1_jcbay2t wrote

Dude, did you read any of the articles? That $51 million isn't the total cost of the legislature, that $51 million is just what our legislature is spending on expenses. Dinners, car rentals, lodgings and other perks that they refuse to disclose.

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_jcbbpd5 wrote

Tack on $22,770,000 for 253 General Assembly members' salaries and we've got $73.8m more or less, per year. Still less than two tenths of a percent of the state's entire budget.
 
What is an acceptable cost to run a legislature in your opinion? What is an acceptable salary for legislators if $90K is just excessive, in your opinion?
 
If you've got better numbers for the total cost to operate the general assembly than I've got here, you're welcome to show us. Because all I can see here is Grandpa yelling the clouds over a tiny fraction of the state budget.

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ITcurmudgeon t1_jcbfax8 wrote

I would have less of a problem with their spending habits if they showed a wee bit more transparency. As a whole, our representatives put up a huge fight when it comes to disclosing their expenditures, since it will likely shine light on their wasteful and frivolous spending. So while you justify their spending as being a small part of the state budget, it is still taxpayer dollars that they are wasting and there are some very poor communities across our state that I'm sure would love to see some of that $50 million plus be redirected their way.

And the rank and file representatives are all now clearing six digits in salary, the third highest in the nation. And that's on top of their health care and generous pensions.

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_jcbg19e wrote

So to be clear, you have no idea what you think it should cost to operate a legislature and you're just complaining like a Facebook Grandpa?

 
> And the rank and file representatives are all now clearing six digits in salary,

 
Woopty fuckin' doo, it isn't 1965 anymore. Their base salary is $90K last I checked. That ain't much.

 
If you're concerned about waste let's go after the PA State Police, who have a budget in excess of $831m per year and suck up a huge amount of our gas taxes that should be going to highways.

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ITcurmudgeon t1_jcbk127 wrote

Yeah well, you should check again cause they're now all clearing 100k. They recently voted themselves CoL increases. It's not like corruption and waste are some new and crazy thing when it comes to our representatives, but it is obviously something you give little Fucks about.

And yeah, the state police appropriating money that should be going to the states highways is a special level of dumbfuckery which has lead to us having one of the highest gas taxes at the fuel pump and the costliest toll roads in the nation.

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_jcbl53a wrote

> Yeah well, you should check again cause they're now all clearing 100k.

 
And that is peanuts. It isn't 1965 anymore.
 
Every number I can find indicates that they're spending less than two tenths of a percent of the state budget to operate the General Assembly. There are bigger fish to fry.

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oovvvie007 t1_jca1x3j wrote

Believe it or not, my job offers a pension (I'm younger, retirement is about 40 years away)!

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Hazel1928 t1_jcailkf wrote

A defined benefit pension? You work in the private sector?

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oovvvie007 t1_jcajj7y wrote

Sure do. They also provide 401k and Roth. They match those as well. I am very lucky.

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Hazel1928 t1_jcajwpi wrote

Wait, they give a defined benefit pension just based on years of service, plus they match 401K and Roth contributions? That’s pretty amazing. Is it like a small tech startup that needs to hire geniuses?

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oovvvie007 t1_jcak8gv wrote

Yes they sure do!!! Nope, banking industry!! Not tech at all.

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Hazel1928 t1_jcatgzd wrote

What percentage of your holdings are from accounts larger than 250K?

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oovvvie007 t1_jcauij3 wrote

Not sure how to answer this question? I'm just a baseline call center agent. it's all held from my paycheck, hope that makes sense. It's not pulled from an account?

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Hazel1928 t1_jcc1wa2 wrote

Oh, you may not have access to that information. I was referring to the failed bank in Silicon Valley. The FDIC guarantees all deposits up to 250 K. So the consumer can know that even if their bank fails, deposits up to 250K are safe. Apparently, that bank had 93% of their accounts over 250K. But we are bailing them out after all. Supposedly it’s not the government (ie taxpayers) that are bailing them out, but it’s the banks (ie customers) who are bailing them out. But I think the banking sector is safe. We won’t let it fail.

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Ok-Twist921 t1_jc8pstg wrote

Coming from both california and nyc, this shit is funny as hell

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claudius_g t1_jc8ry57 wrote

Hey now.

We're a commonwealth.

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caniki t1_jc8dhyc wrote

at least you don't have to deal with Philadelphia city wage tax?

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Viperlite t1_jc9uaiz wrote

... or I don't know, a certain President who capped the Federal deductibility of State And Local Taxes {SALT), thus increasing Federal taxes paid for those paying city wage taxes... particularly in two-wage families where both work in the city.

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Madame_Hokey t1_jc9ukdd wrote

This is one of the reasons why I recently left my job in Philly. That city tax bothered me to no end and claiming I have to pay a tax for the privilege of working in the city. Yeah I’ll just get a job closer to home without the headache.

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across-the-board t1_jc8gvv4 wrote

Liberal cities with all of their taxes suck.

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jralll234 t1_jc8qky9 wrote

Conservative communities leeching off of those liberal cities taxes suck.

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OccasionallyImmortal t1_jc979cf wrote

It's interesting that the state (and Federal) laws justify taxing gains at their full value as soon as you realize them under the justification that the government helped create the environment under which you were able to earn it. However, when you lose money, that's entirely due to your own bad decision-making and you either deduct nothing or only a partial value.

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markwusinich t1_jca4bpo wrote

Too often those losses are just paper losses. It sucks for those who have real losses, but it is consistent.

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Cold-Resolve1923 t1_jc8itez wrote

I do enjoy no tax on my pension and SS that is no more offset by the horrible roads, the garbage strewn highways. The abandoned homes, the list goes on.

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[deleted] OP t1_jc8j24b wrote

[deleted]

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Cold-Resolve1923 t1_jc8jho0 wrote

If you live in Western Pa you know what I am talking about, Clairton, Mckessport, Penn Hills, PITTSBURGH.

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raven4747 t1_jc8ynzg wrote

not sure why you are being downvoted. there are a lot of neglected communities in PA, especially in the western side, that really need help from our govt.

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Cold-Resolve1923 t1_jcb1iov wrote

When heavy industry shut down the people moved on. The cities and towns were left to there own devices which if one watches the evening news or reads a newspaper they will see the effects. Granted some places in Pa are reinventing but it sure aint happening in the Pittsburgh area. We do have a pretty top notch medical industry but that seems to be it.

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raven4747 t1_jcb8oey wrote

you are right. deindustrialization in the late 20th century fucked over so many communities in this country. the only way to truly fix the issue is a coordinated approach between federal & state govts (local govts too if they can be bothered, but thats always a crap shoot).

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Cold-Resolve1923 t1_jcbijiw wrote

Your right, it is a crap shoot, try to imagine the group we have in the halls of the govt. They are more concerned that CRT isnt taught in schools (its not). That Jan 6 was a peaceful protest. That Hunters laptop will send the President to jail. I think you understand, we are out here on a island with no rescue in sight. Hell, just look at the comments about Fetterman, Poor guy seeks help and The republicans rake him over the coals

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raven4747 t1_jcbl14i wrote

well said. its blatantly ridiculous at this point.. but thats apparently what the people need to realize how important it is to engage in the political process as a citizen. all the luxuries we enjoy today are not simply a given. they are a results of centuries' worth of work building a society both in terms of infrastructure but also law, government, and civics. we can't just coast on the past, we have to build like the ones who came before us.

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gkrash t1_jc8puvj wrote

I mean state tax is high, but it’s still relatively a drop in the bucket compared to federal.. and cost of living across most of the state (by land mass) is very low.

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rubikscanopener t1_jca6ajh wrote

PA state income tax is not that high. It's lower than virtually every state around us.

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_jcah7c9 wrote

Every other day there's a post here crying about this tax or that tax. Really makes u think.

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bxmxc_vegas t1_jcbbrur wrote

PA overall tax rank is the 4th highest in the nation.

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rubikscanopener t1_jcbxu89 wrote

I call bullshit on that study. They included everything and it's brother into the bucket of "taxes".

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doctorlongghost t1_jca67bo wrote

I pay taxes four times: Federal, PA, Montgomery County (1%), Abington ($1 per paycheck).

I don’t mind the amounts so much as the fucking paperwork.

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WunkyFinkerbean t1_jcavhg2 wrote

I really don't mind paying taxes, but the administration of taxes is inherently punitive. The fact that there is a multi-billion dollar tax prep industry is insane.

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rovinchick t1_jca4llc wrote

Just hope that the real estate tax elimination folks don't get their way, because they have proposed increasing income tax by 50% and sales tax by 33% in lieu of real estate taxes. Commercial property owners would be given a gift of free real estate taxes that would be made up for on the backs of residents. In my township, 40% of the real estate collections are from commercial properties, so that's a hell of gift to them and a huge burden for the residents. Not to mention that real estate taxes are a predictable stream of revenue, but income and sales taxes decrease during times of recession, which leads to shortfalls and even more tax increase down the line.

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RaccoonsAreNeat2 t1_jcaei8c wrote

UGhh! Taxes are the worst! No other state has taxes! This is "HELL ON EARTH!"

By all means, move to Ohio. Public resources are absolute shit, half of its population doesn't have basic autonomy over their own bodies, and oh yeah, there are still taxes. So tired of this over dramatic nonsense. There are people living through actual hell on earth. I've got twenty bucks on the fact that you aren't one of them.

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Fall3n7s t1_jca2768 wrote

Calm down. They tax retirement contributions now versus in retirement.

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steampunkedunicorn t1_jcb0t51 wrote

I moved here from California and I was genuinely confused when I saw all of the taxes taken out of my paycheck. On top of that, the gas tax may be lower than CA, but that doesn't do much for me when I have to drive an extra hour or two just to avoid the stupidly high cost toll roads.

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SolidAd2342 t1_jcc926l wrote

Let your senator know about your issues maybe they’ll try to help.

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B0MBOY t1_jc8v014 wrote

It’s fucking crooked. My company moved hq to PA and the tax situation here has everyone pissed.

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BeltfedOne t1_jc89yr5 wrote

I was very displeased to move here at my now ex-wife's insistance. Now I am am stuck with a ridiculous tax burden (4th highest in the nation), local income tax, fees for everfuckingthing, and the worst roads in the known universe. Fortunately, I live in the woods so the critters make up for some of it.

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pa_bourbon t1_jc8ny4p wrote

Michigan would like to chat with you about roads.

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BobBombadil t1_jc93bdw wrote

I grew up in PA and always complained about our miserable roads. Then, one summer after college, I visited Michigan. The roads really were the worst I had ever witnessed, and from there I swore I would never complain about PA roads again.

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Vast-Support-1466 t1_jc8hbn2 wrote

How do you conclude that Pa has the 4th highest tax rate in the nation?

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rubikscanopener t1_jca6rdu wrote

I call bullshit on that study. They included all sorts of fees and local taxes that people may or may not pay.

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Acceptable_Land3333 t1_jc98cn1 wrote

From.... A former western PA yinzer. It's been the 4th highest tax state for a while. (Link at the bottom) The roads in Pennsylvania and Michigan are just horrible. I live in Ohio now, but I travel to Pittsburgh once a month to check in on family, but i also travel to Michigan at least 4 times a year, and as soon as my GPS says welcome to PA or MI the roads instantly change.

FYI... I just use my GPS to get a heads up on construction, accidents and speed traps.

https://www.pennlive.com/life/2023/03/pennsylvania-has-no-4-highest-tax-rates-in-us-report.html

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ScorchedOak t1_jca5bpx wrote

I struggle with this one. I get it, it’s a tax burden, but I moved to Bala Cynwyd, right outside of Philadelphia, in 2023, and I pay LESS taxes than I have ever paid before coming from Indianapolis and Columbus, OH. Explain that one to me.

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