Redlar t1_irddlv9 wrote
Reply to comment by randompittuser in ACLU files federal discrimination complaint against Central Bucks School District, alleging discrimination against LGBTQ students by Zashiony
I just read Gender Queer.
I don't see what all the fuss is about, there's nothing in there that I wouldn't want a middle schooler or high schooler to learn about or see if they are being raised with a healthy understanding of the sexual nature of humans. It was very informative, and an enjoyable read. Someone calling it "porn" says a lot about where their brain automatically goes to, yikes.
A graphic novel like Gender Queer would have mind-blowing to me as a teenager. I grew up down in MD in a school district that had extremely basic sex education (back in the 80s and 90s), the area was also racist and saturated with Christianity. What a coincidence lol
As a kid I'd already seen pottery with naked people on it from reading National Geographic and depictions of people on network TV engaged in sexual activity (always under the sheets but you knew what was supposed to be going on). The rest of the novel I wouldn't have objected to my kids learning (they're all young adults now), it certainly would have been healthy than when their friends would show them inappropriate pictures or videos without any warning or way to educate.
As to the other novel mentioned in above comments, I haven't read it.
annnon26252918 t1_irf420i wrote
>I don't see what all the fuss is about, there's nothing in there that I wouldn't want a middle schooler or high schooler to learn about or see if they are being raised with a healthy understanding of the sexual nature of humans.
And that is your choice as their parent. Most parents want to avoid their children getting a hold of sexual novels.
Buy the book for your child if you think it is appropriate.
This material does not belong in a public school library. There's a reason all sexual material is limited to 18+ by law.
Redlar t1_irfjmzp wrote
>This material does not belong in a public school library
The school library is there to serve all students not just the ones raised with conservative values, after all, my tax money went to that library too. I don't like Ayn Rand's ideas, I think they harmful in the wrong hands and are a horrible way to think about and treat other people, but I'm not going to demand her books are removed, in fact, my son started reading one of her books after playing Bioshock because he became interested in the ideas that lay at the heart of the game's story, I didn't interfere but I did make myself available to talk about those ideas.
>There's a reason all sexual material is limited to 18+ by law.
Oh boy, you don't want to know about network or cable TV, streaming services, video games, books, music, the Internet or what students discuss amongst themselves.
>Most parents want to avoid their children getting a hold of sexual novels.
I think parents want their kids to grow up to be healthy and happy adults which requires teaching them about the world as it exists currently.
It's natural to want to protect your child from harm but it's also difficult for some parents to accept that their teenager is growing into an adult so they react harshly to anything deemed "sexual" in a misguided attempt to protect them. Teenagers will seek information, period, it's better if the information is factual.
I grew up with a repressed understanding of human sexuality due to a very basic sex education in school and parents that couldn't even bring themselves to use the proper names for body parts "down there", plus the mindset that sex was dirty, not that anything was ever really discussed in my family. I didn't even have a discussion about menstruation with my mother, thankfully I had older sisters so I knew what to do but only with pads.
>Buy the book for your child if you think it is appropriate.
I suspect you didn't read all of my original comment or skimmed because I specifically said they are adults now.
annnon26252918 t1_irfkxbo wrote
>The school library is there to serve all students not just the ones raised with conservative values, after all, my tax money went to that library too.
So now you're advocating for porn to be in school libraries... Good for you.
>Oh boy, you don't want to know about network or cable TV, streaming services, video games, books, music, the Internet or what students discuss amongst themselves.
Section 1470 of Title 18, United States Code, prohibits any individual from knowingly transferring or attempting to transfer obscene matter using the U.S. mail or any means or facility of interstate or foreign commerce to a minor under 16 years of age. Convicted offenders face fines and imprisonment for up to 10 years.
That's why I specifically said law. Children will find a way to see said materials, but it should not be readily available in a school setting.
>I think parents want their kids to grow up to be healthy and happy adults which requires teaching them about the world as it exists currently.
And what you consider "healthy and happy" is not the same as what others consider healthy and happy.
Should my tax dollars go towards something I believe to be completely inappropriate materials for a classroom just because you think it's "okay" for kids to read pornographic materials, even as it breaks federal law?
Homeschool your kids, folks!
Redlar t1_irfm0vh wrote
>So now you're advocating for porn to be in school libraries... Good for you.
>Should my tax dollars go towards something I believe to be completely inappropriate materials for a classroom just because you think it's "okay" for kids to read pornographic materials, even as it breaks federal law?
>to transfer obscene matter
Define "obscene matter".
annnon26252918 t1_irfs37e wrote
Sucking D*ck is pretty obscene. You're not allowed to show someone sucking D'ck on cable television, why should it be allowed in our classrooms with young children?
Redlar t1_irg1fzs wrote
Define "obscene matter" in the legal sense not your opinion of it
annnon26252918 t1_irg4li0 wrote
Each State defines it differently, but since we're in a PA sub here's their law
> (2) sell, lend, distribute, transmit, exhibit, give away or show any obscene materials to any person 18 years of age or older or offer to sell, lend, distribute, transmit, exhibit or give away or show, or have in his possession with intent to sell, lend, distribute, transmit, exhibit or give away or show any obscene materials to any person 18 years of age or older, or knowingly advertise any obscene materials in any manner;
> "Obscene." Any material or performance, if:
(1) the average person applying contemporary community standards would find that the subject matter taken as a whole appeals to the prurient interest;
(2) the subject matter depicts or describes in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct of a type described in this section ; and
(3) the subject matter, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, educational or scientific value.
None the less, what does sucking D*ck have to do with education?Are the girls and boys supposed to learn multiplication by how many D'cks they suck?
Like I said above, if a parent believes these kind of books are appropriate for their child, go buy it for them. It is not appropriate material for a learning environment.
Redlar t1_irgk1ma wrote
>(2) sell, lend, distribute, transmit, exhibit, give away or show any obscene materials to any person 18 years of age or older
This part has nothing to do with your argument.
As to whether or not it is considered obscene, the law does not support your argument because it does not pass the last part of this three part test, which you quoted:
>(3) the subject matter, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, educational or scientific value.
Ultimately, the law appears to be entirely irrelevant to your argument because of this section:
(j) Exemptions.--Nothing in this section shall apply to any recognized historical society or museum accorded charitable status by the Federal Government, any county, city, borough, township or town library, any public library, any library of any school, college or university or any archive or library under the supervision and control of the Commonwealth or a political subdivision.
Whether or not something is obscene has been argued for more than 100 years in our country.
I did enjoy learning more about the law in PA so thank you for that.
>It is not appropriate material for a learning environment.
That is your opinion.
If you have concrete evidence that the book is to be found in elementary school libraries across the state, I would be very interested in seeing it. Do keep in mind that anecdotal evidence is not acceptable.
susinpgh t1_irgdvq7 wrote
OMG! I'm from a very different generation. But I brought home "The Autobiography of Malcolm X" and the Communist Manifesto when I was in high school in the mid-70s. My dad didn't like it, but he didn't stop me from reading them. I checked them out of my HS library, btw. I swear to FSM, I hate what the current generation is going through. I mean, there wasn't a lot of stuff out about LGBTQ when I was in HS, and I wish there was. But the indifference of my parent's generation towards education meant that I wasn't censored on what I read. Hell, I checked Clockwork Orange out of my public library when I was 11. That's the age you had to be to check out adult material. That would have been in, what? like 1969 1962?
Redlar t1_irgmurv wrote
Wow, I'm seriously impressed! I've not read those particular books but knowing my son he has lol
>I swear to FSM, I hate what the current generation is going through. I mean, there wasn't a lot of stuff out about LGBTQ when I was in HS, and I wish there was.
FSM, may we be blessed by his noodley appendages 🙏
My adult children have a few friends that had tough times with their parents, one was tossed out for a few days until her dad calmed down (she crashed on my kid's couch), some just don't say anything to their families, and a few actually had supportive families. I got to hear about the turmoil in their friends' lives and it breaks my heart, they have a difficult enough time just existing, they don't need their difficulties compounded by adults being awful and making up lies about their orientations.
I was so oblivious to anything LGBTQ+, back in high school, I didn't even know my best friend was gay! Reflecting on it I know why he didn't come out to me, it would have been extremely dangerous in the area we lived.
I'm really not enjoying this timeline's updated version of McCarthyism and the Satanic Panic. Hmmm, that could be a cool band name tho lol
susinpgh t1_irgd289 wrote
Thank you. I have been meaning to read it myself to see where I stood on its assessment.
Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments