Submitted by Polskamon1 t3_xzvwey in Pennsylvania
Hello, I am from Indiana, and I study geography--especially cities. I am trying to learn about cities in Pennsylvania, but it is quite confusing. Should places like Ross Township, Falls Township, Upper/Lower Merion, Cranberry, etc, be considered cities? Or are they generally areas that encompass other cities? I would really appreciate any help. Thanks!
Wikipedia explains it better than I ever could: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Township_(Pennsylvania)
I know you came here seeking answers to questions, but now I have questions for you: do cities in Indiana Annex their suburbs in the same way that a lot of cities west of the Mississippi do? The greatest example that I can give is Phoenix arizona. Phoenix is the fastest growing city in america, or at least one of them, but not because people keep moving there, it's because they keep annexing surrounding suburbs. That is something that does not happen in the northeast. So when you look at population density of American cities you will notice that the Northeast has some crazy density and the Southwest has almost none.
And to make an attempt at answering your question, some of those small townships are actually considered villages.
Being from the Ross Township area I can say in its case it (and adjoing second-class townships) functions as a fairly simple local government that keeps the country roads plowed and mowed; approves zoning and land use developments; does basic building permits and inspections; maintains a small community park; and gives some support to its local volunteer fire companies.
That's about it but yeah they are essentially rural, much simpler versions of cities in their function.
PA does not have any unincorporated land. Every piece of land is part of one of 2,560 municipalities (township, borough, city, or in one case, town). The townships tend to be rural countryside or suburban sprawl. They are not cities.
I'm not sure how common it is in Indiana, but Wikipedia says that Fort Wayne, the second largest city in the state, annexed an area containing 25k residents back in 2006.
> Ross Township
I think OP is probably referring to the Ross Township next to Pittsburgh, which is suburban, not rural.
Some, if not most, townships don’t encompass anything other than their own area, I.e. there’s not necessarily a borough or city inside a township, although I can see where that would make logical sense.
In Lancaster County, Lancaster Township surrounds Lancaster City on most sides but the two have no governmental connection to one another. Lancaster City School District, however, serves residents of both.
Also in Lancaster County, Manheim Borough and Manheim Township are several miles apart and share only a name.
And then somewhere in all of this we have villages and other unincorporated areas that are nothing more than place names even though they have road signs indicating where they are. Several famous people come from the village of Neffsville, for example, like golfer Jim Furyk, actor Taylor Kinney, and Jeopardy champion Brad Rutter. But there really is no Neffsville except as an area on a map.
Ah, makes sense.
Confusion due to one here in Monroe County in the Poconos as well.
Others have explained the Township system.
Here are some more helpful notes about PA local governments:
Boroughs are carved out of Townships but are independent from Townships. They're usually more densely populated but not always. They're like small cities/towns. Sometimes the dense population spills over into adjacent Townships.
Cities are less common but are also carved out of Townships and independent from Townships. There's also one Town in the state which is basically a City.
Villages are purely geographic, they have no governmental/administrative functions
Philadelphia is a combined "city of the first class" and county.
Basically, townships, boroughs, and cities are all municipalities. Counties are divided into municipalities. Every square inch of PA is in both one municipality and one county.
School districts are organized along municipal borders but are independent of municipal/county governments. They sometimes cross county lines. The School District of Philadelphia is the exception; their school board is appointed by the Mayor.
No, Pennsylvania does not "have Townships because we're a Commonwealth." I hear this from people who have lived here awhile and it makes no sense. Virginia and Kentucky are Commonwealths and have very few governmental units besides counties.
> or in one case, town
I had no idea Bloomsburg was the only “town” in all of Pennsylvania, that’s really interesting
And Massachusetts!
[removed]
The other beauty of the system...hundreds of repeated townships across the state.
Seriously how can you forget them!
I believe there are also three villages, but don’t hold me to that.
Townships are geographical subdivisions of counties. If well populated, they become political subdivisions, with governing bodies, services, etc. Most are governed by small unpaid supervisory boards that are responsible for roads. Cities and towns are defined and classified, I believe, by PA Code, which also classifiesTownships. Some internet research will give you your answers.
Yes and no... Unincorporated land: No Unincorporated villages and towns: Yes, we have such areas.
I don't know for example about Centralia since the fires... On paper I believe it is still listed as a borough, but since the area has all but been abandoned I really don't know if that will bring it back to be uninforporated land. That should be happening within the next 15-20 years.
In MA, counties and municipalities are organized and run separately. Cities are chartered whereas towns are not. Counties used to have more power and functions, but were curbed in about 30 years ago. Counties do not run the towns. Addresses are not based on the location of the post office (one feature of PA that I really dislike). Most towns have an annual Town Meeting where elected residents can vote on various budget items. School districts are NOT separate taxing organizations. They either get approval from the Board of Selectmen (and sometimes Town Meeting) or go back to the drawing board.
It's a commonwealth along with PA, KY, VA was the point
Neffsville is where the traffic light on 501 for Valley Road is, non? By the Turkey Hill. And the IU building. And the high school. And the toy shop.
Compare that to Lawn. Where there is a post office. And a volunteer fire station. Not much else. Even less in Upper Lawn, just a crossroads. Colebrook has a gas station. And a water dispensary. Twin Kiss has closed. And the tavern is still being rehabbed.
Mt. Gretna is a different story. There is Chattaqua (the Boro), Timber Hills (SoLo), Camp Meeting (W. Cornwall) and Laurel Woods (So. Annville).
PA is a municipal mess. Too many of them, imho.
School funding is more than just property taxes.
Per capita also provides funds. A really annoying tax.
State provides some funding.
Feds provide some funding.
And the sneaky bit of funding comes from earned income taxes. That's right. The EIT. Quite a bit of funding, in fact.
Really fun at high school championships when the opposing sides have the same name.
Townships are not "subdivisions" of counties; rather, they are separate and distinct in definition and operation from counties. Townships, regardless of population (example, Cold Spring Township in far northern Lebanon County has long had zero or next-to zero residents) are their political entities. Most townships have a 3-member board of supervisors who are paid a small annual stipend. There are at least 2 categories of townships, but what separates them is not strictly population based. The Municipal Planning Code has all that.
Was addressing the last part in that same sentence.
The last part of what
Yes, that’s Neffsville.
>Was addressing the last part in that same sentence.
right there
the sentence "And Massachusetts!"?
Or did you mean to reply to the OP instead of me?
I replied to whomever I replied to for whatever reason I decided to reply. Why you are such an ass about it should not be a problem for me. If you cannot understand, just move along and bugger some other person.
Ah so you were answering a different post than the one you replied to
Ah, no, you reacted without thought and then decided to be a dick about it instead of admitting you misunderstood. Move along now, dingus.
My point was to identify the Commonwealths that don't have lots of municipal level governments.
I'm referring to the land specifically, since many states (especially out west) have a lot of land that is not part of any municipality. Unincorporated villages and towns exist in PA, but they are just geographic locations that are governed by whatever municipality they are in. I grew up in such a village that is spread across two townships (although there are no exact boundaries of the village).
As for Centralia, when it is unincorporated the land itself will become part of the surrounding township most likely.
New England's town meeting system is interesting, it's one of the few areas where direct democracy is used.
Townships are municipalities. Cities are not contained within townships, and townships are not within cities. Cities are a different kind of municipality. Townships can be urban, suburban, or rural.
There are more than 3 in the whole state. I had 3 near where I grew up in NEPA.
York County has at least two incorporated boroughs with fewer than 300 people. Wellsville and Cross Roads. WHY????
Any PA municipality with fewer than 1500 permanent residents should be made to combine with another, imho.
I second this motion
imamunster123 t1_irojrf4 wrote
I'm not 100% certain, but I think they function as more of a subdivision of a given county, with a smaller more local focus.
I certainly wouldn't consider the township I grew up in as the "city" or "town" I was from anyway.