In Pa. county jails, people with mental illness are routinely met with pepper spray and stun guns

Submitted by WITFnews t3_y2cyrs in Pennsylvania

About half of the people in county jails in Pennsylvania have some diagnosed mental health issue. About 15% of people in jail have a serious mental illness such as schizophrenia that warrants the highest level of behavioral health care.

A WITF investigation found that almost one in three uses of force from 25 jails during the last three months of 2021 involved a person who was having a mental health crisis or who had a diagnosed mental illness.

WITF reporter Brett Sholtis spent 10 months working on this story. It's a long one, but an important one.

https://www.witf.org/2022/10/12/pennsylvania-jails-mental-illness-pepper-spray-stun-guns/

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FuzzPunkMutt t1_is2ahgp wrote

This is far from a PA issue, it's a "The US is INCREDIBLY happy to lock people in prison" issue.

We do not have social systems in place to help people with mental health issues. It's why whenever someone shoots up a school and politicians wring their hands about how its "A mental health issue" and then do NOTHING, it stings extra hard.

Defund the police was a bad slogan because it's catchy and makes sense if you understand it, but does not actually tell people what the idea actually is. Move funding from paramilitary police forces and excessive prison enforcement and put the funding into mental health services and better social safety nets doesn't have the ring to it, but god damn is it what this country needs to do.

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twolfe0 t1_is2yubp wrote

It's unfortunate that we have such a polar divide in our country because it seems we're experiencing the direct result of deinstitutionalization. Our prisons have basically become replacements for psychiatric hospitals and while most mental illnesses don't correlate to increased violence....some do and if a inmate suffering from something like schizophrenia has a violent episode they're gonna be met with the same type of force that a sane violent person would. This also seems to directly correlation with the homeless situations in many cities around the country, as far more mentally ill are navigating daily life among everyone else and not getting the help they need

This isn't a liberal/conservative issue, this is a legitimate national emergency. I think we need to bring back the psychiatric hospitals to the degree we used to have them, of course in modern form. Deaths from despair have been going up dramatically in recent years too, so I'm not sure what else we need to prove how serious this is.

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FiendishHawk t1_is367ww wrote

It’s very much a liberal issue as conservatives think that this sort of thing is the responsibility of the family of the mentally ill person, not society.

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twolfe0 t1_is38coh wrote

Perhaps...either/or it sure has become society's problem, a problem that clearly grew over the last few decades and is reaching critic mass. As far as it being the responsibility of the person's family ... That's great if the family is responsible to begin with...or if they are indeed responsible but managing and caring for a mentally ill person is beyond their capabilities as it is for most ...or that the mentally ill person has a family to begin with

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Bonegirl06 t1_is56h76 wrote

Very few families have the resources or knowledge to treat mental illness. Conservatives live in a fantasy world.

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ashleyorelse t1_is5yc1y wrote

Conservatives think everyone should do everything for themselves.

That's because their political views are designed to benefit rich people, who have the means to do this, but don't want to help or pay for others.

Everyone else who thinks that way was conned by rich people propaganda.

What's really fun is to discuss it in depth with a evangelical Christian conservative.

The parable of the Good Samaritan is always great to mention (Luke 10). Jesus teaches to help those in need in order to be a good neighbor.

So is the story of the sheep and the goats. (Matthew 25). Jesus teaches that whatever his followers do to others, they are essentially doing to him.

If they let you get that far, after presenting these scriptures and stories, it's great to ask them if they would tell Jesus to do whatever they insist the poor or needy should do.

Go tell Jesus to "get a job". Tell Jesus he "doesn't want to work because he's lazy". Tell Jesus "bootstrap yourself up". Tell Jesus he "doesn't deserve the help".

Most times you can't even get them that far because they will walk away in self righteous indignation as they do not want to hear the truth that their political ideas and their faith simply do not line up.

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FiendishHawk t1_is63oa2 wrote

Rich folks can throw money at any family problem so they think that everyone should. If their family member becomes an addict, they can pay for fancy rehab. If their family member get schizophrenia they can pay for the best psychiatrists and an apartment for them to stay in.

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ashleyorelse t1_is694ex wrote

Exactly.

Their real achievement is convincing poor and middle class people to adopt the same mindset, but without the resources. Not only that, but to advocate it for others.

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FiendishHawk t1_is6fqzk wrote

Ordinary people can’t necessarily take troubled relatives into their homes because they have other responsibilities and limited resources. If you can only afford to rent a room for yourself, you can’t necessarily let your drug addict brother stay. If you have children at home, a schizophrenic relative with terrifying behaviors might cause them to grow up traumatized. This is why people end up on the streets despite have family.

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klauskervin t1_is5fn3p wrote

A lot of these folks have no family to speak of. What do you do with a 50 y/o with schizophrenia that has no job or family?

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FiendishHawk t1_is5h1dr wrote

A lot of them do have families but severe schizophrenia strains the resources of all but the richest families: it’s hard to invite your schizophrenic uncle to stay long term if he screams constantly and rants about demons and can’t help with the rent.

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alaxsxaq t1_is683v7 wrote

How do you think this should be addressed? Fine to blame someone else, but if you have no thoughts about a solution, you are just being lazy and contributing nothing. This country is locked into left/right bullshit that solves nothing. Perpetuating that is of no value.

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FiendishHawk t1_is6ek20 wrote

It should be addressed by addressing it. Conservatives are reluctant to engage in the issue and the only suggestions I’ve seen from them of any practical intent are “Bring back the asylums” which I do not suppose they are willing to pay for.

Oh and sometimes they suggest just shooting all the homeless but that is more fascist than conservative IMHO.

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alaxsxaq t1_is6u00c wrote

Conservative/liberal arguments aside, have any of our politicians in this state proposed a solution? Does that solution have broad support?

We put up with piss poor services in this state for what we pay. I'm not sure why we expect so little of our government. Placing the blame all on one party is pretty much an act of surrender. If you care, you should realize that you need to do more than complain or march off to the polls every year and vote for your party in the hope that finally be done.

Healthcare in this country is an abomination and we all smile and accept it. We get what we deserve.

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FiendishHawk t1_is6umu4 wrote

Liberals have ideas about healthcare reform but it’s really got to be a federal effort, because otherwise the red states will just put all their mentally ill on buses and send them to PA or wherever reforms first.

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heili t1_is6rdoi wrote

> It should be addressed by addressing it.

What?

Let's say, for sake of argument, that I agree with funding mental healthcare for people who suffer severe mental illness. How do we get people to accept treatment? One of the large problems with treating things like schizophrenia is noncompliance with medication.

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FiendishHawk t1_is6tfdk wrote

Let’s get the funding and see if that’s still a problem. Schizophrenics from rich families seem to have less problems with compliance - very few rich men’s mentally ill kids living on the street by choice, hmm?

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heili t1_is6uwue wrote

My family has dealt with this exact issue. It was a revolving door of him taking his medication, feeling better, stopping medication, going off the rails, ending up having problems, emergency holds, convincing him to stay in the hospital, getting him back on meds...

That door revolved for over thirty years until he died. And I do not come from a wealthy family. It's not like there was endless money to throw at this.

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Spookiest_Meow t1_is2c8kw wrote

I worked in a jail as a CO once. There was a guy in a suicide watch cell who was obviously mentally ill. He often smeared his own shit all over himself. I forget what exactly happened, but one day he was upset about something and demanding to talk to the sergeant. The sergeant came in and talked to the guy for a minute, then motioned for me to crack his door open. When I did, he pulled out his OC spray and absolutely doused the guy in it for no apparent reason, then casually motioned for me to close it again and let him out of the cell block. The guy in the cell was rolling on the floor screaming.

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piperonyl t1_is2n8o2 wrote

I was in the county once and the guy in the cell next to me was arguing with the sergeant through the bars in his window. Sarge pulled out a can of mace and sprayed him right in the face with it. I didnt even get directly sprayed and i was having a hard time breathing next door. They just let the dude scream in agony.

Whenever i hear some brutal story about a CO getting poked up or stomped out in a prison, i immediately assume he did something to deserve it. There is very, very little accountability for officers in our penal system.

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_SundaeDriver t1_is2hec5 wrote

My old neighbor is schizophrenic, he would often find himself in jail. They would get him back on his meds but it wasnt where he needed to be. He needs help from someone who understands whats actually going on. I have called the police on him. I asked for a health crisis worker or to send an officer who already has had experience with this individual so they dont arrest him.

I feel for him and his family. He has to live with them because there is no where to send him for help. He can't hold down a job and can't live on his own. All the resources for people in this predicament have been taken away. So he ends up back in jail. It's a terrible cycle

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Cute_Platypus_5989 t1_is48tsf wrote

When your medical system is FOR PROFIT. Fixing medical conditions dose not equal PROFIT. The most vulnerable are the less fortunate. Very sad

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MartialBob t1_is2ugs0 wrote

As a former health care worker I am not surprised at all. The state places some pretty specific rules about patient care; how you lift, transport, interact with and so on. Even the good facilities have staff that bend and break the rules on a regular basis. You get good at lying when something goes wrong.

When you add in people are convicts and that do not have family on site to advocate for them you get a recipe for rampant abuse.

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-I_I t1_is42s5i wrote

Just an FYI: Incarcerated person > convict.

Also, and related: incarcerated person ≠ guilty

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Drunarawr t1_is3oafy wrote

I once worked in a max security psych unit. We received a patient that had committed a pretty serious offense involving her children. (Children are alive, don’t worry) Patient was so out of it that she legitimately did not understand what she had done. I won’t say her diagnoses, but I’m sure you can guess. She was only with us for 2 weeks and was immediately sent to prison after a trial. The woman barely knew her name or what has been going on in her life for the past 4 months, but the system deemed her suitable for prison. The prison system is a joke imo, and it helps no one but the people getting rich off them. Sad.

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victorix58 t1_is4x7c2 wrote

PA public defender here. Let me paint a common picture and talk about an important term along the way.

What does the word forensic mean? Well, forensic is a code word for involved in the criminal justice system. Why's that word important here? It renders treatment options virtually non existent.

Suppose someone with mental health issues is charged and put in jail because they are perceived as dangerous and unable or unwilling to stop. They don't have family resources, housing, or insurance. They don't have a job. They maybe trespassed at Walmart after arguing with an employee. Or gotten into a fight with family. Or the like.

Before being incarcerated, they can be taken to a local hospital and involuntarily committed for mental health treatment until their mental health becomes relatively stable. The hospital can't or doesn't refuse treatment.

After being incarcerated, the treatment needs are labeled as "forensic." The private hospitals won't accept them anymore. They say they have to go to a forensic hospital, because their needs are now "forensic." And local judges are disinclined to let mentally unstable, untreated, homeless persons out of jail.

But there are virtually no forensic hospitals in PA. There are two IN THE ENTIRE STATE. They are state run. They have to be shipped there after a very long waiting list, usually months. And then, when they are relatively stable, they are shipped back to the county jail. And when they get back they have the same local treatment options. Some of these people who are really stuck literally wait in prison a year or more before ever going to trial or pleading guilty. Just trying to sort out the mental health component.

The state and counties are not funding indigent mental health treatment. It's just non existent. And there is no where for these people to go.

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worstatit t1_is5u4wj wrote

This guy knows. It's very frustrating to see people repeatedly "stabilized" at hospitals through emergency mental health commitments, then released to follow up on their own medication/treatment plans. Eventually, they do end up as inmates in a system that isn't set up for treatment. When you throw a problem at the police, don't act surprised when they make arrests as their only viable solution, which it often is.

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Donny_sharky t1_is51y2s wrote

This makes me wanna pay off my ARD fines as quickly as humanly possible

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