PopeMaIone t1_iusov4s wrote
Reply to comment by reverendsteveii in $10 a day for jury pay is absurd if Pennsylvania says they are holding fair trials. by Jazzlike_Breadfruit9
Too bad it is required and a duty as an American citizen. You'll get either get excused or suffer the consequences of blowing it off. You're not special
reverendsteveii t1_iusynyj wrote
Why are you so eager to brag about what the government is capable of?
PopeMaIone t1_iuszpwl wrote
Because we all have to do it. You're not special and you're not in the position to be making demands. I don't see it as bragging about what the government is capable of. I see it as bringing you back to reality and humbling you.
reverendsteveii t1_iut9de7 wrote
>I think we should all be compensated for our time spent performing jury duty
>You need to be brought back to reality and humbled and I, some jerkoff from the internet, am just the guy to do it
Jesus Christ dude get a hobby or start a drug habit or something
RunningOnPunkTime t1_iut6myn wrote
Yes and it is awesome that it's a duty. Juries are generally a good system that can provide more accountability.
No one's arguing that it's not a requirement/duty. No one's arguing that they're special. What they are arguing is that at the compensation that Pennsylvania gives for jury duty, you're not going to have the income that you would've planned on which can cause unnecessary financial distress.
However you never addressed any of that because you were so obsessed with "humbling" someone for that extra feeling of superiority that you seem to love so much.
PopeMaIone t1_iut8ql6 wrote
I don't feel superior hence why I'm not the one demanding to be paid an "actual wage" which was beyond the minimum wage that was suggested. So $25 to $50 an hour to do the duty the rest of us have to for free or $10. That kind of mentality inherently means they feel they're superior and their time and duty is worth more than everyone else's. Try to keep up with basic logic.
RunningOnPunkTime t1_iut9jyx wrote
Again. No one's arguing that ONLY they should get paid a living wage. That's ridiculous. Everyone here is talking about how the policy needs to change so that everyone receives the wages that they would've planned for within a certain limit. This person is merely talking about their own experience and needs within a conversation about a system that they believe needs to change.
This would also make trials cost a lot more which might have the secondary benefit of cutting down on all the unnecessary convictions for non-violent offenders.
PopeMaIone t1_iutarnb wrote
Okay I follow you and agree that's one way to look at it. Here's my genuine question: What do you call people that perform their duty without complaining for nothing or next to nothing because they feel its their duty vs someone whining and making demands to do that same duty? To me it would seem like the latter is an entitled douche but I guess it's a matter of opinion.
RunningOnPunkTime t1_iutcuve wrote
Why is that an entitled douche? Sounds like someone who doesn't want to be put in financial distress regardless of "duty". Idk about you, but my duty to my family comes way before I even think about the duty towards the state.
You're constructing the ideal person as someone who just accepts their "duty" regardless of harm. Someone who just accepts their duty and doesn't say anything even when it's causing harm to them or other people just sounds like a coward.
Your duty should be to try and make your community better. Being on a jury is an obligation that's one way of fulfilling that duty. As it stands, we're restricting jury duty to those who have the financial means to miss work and lose that money. This is just another way that the US is a plutocracy. We should ensure that no one misses out on their wages so that everyone can participate regardless of income. I think that ensuring everyone can participate as a member of a jury would make it all just a bit better.
Rather than being some coward who accepts the status quo without "whining or complaining", why not aim for something a bit better?
PopeMaIone t1_iutezbm wrote
Ahh, a coward is someone who does what is expected of them and sacrifices for others or the collective or even more simply someone who upholds their end of the social contract. The smart person is the one who demands a benefit for doing something, anything for their fellow man or society. Sounds very trumpian from someone I have no doubt is likely a leftist and not a fan of capitalism. Either way, you have a selfish worldview I hope doesn't spread.
RunningOnPunkTime t1_iutgkc1 wrote
Lol a selfish worldview is one in which it's ensured that everyone is provided for? I'll take that bullet. If it's selfish to say no to a duty to the community because I want to pay my mortgage and keep my family fed then yeah I guess I'm selfish.
I'm literally arguing for a system where people can actually do their duty to their fellow man without worrying about their own well being. But you haven't actually addressed that. All you've argued for is the status quo which, as I've argued unopposed, is harmful to people with lower incomes and prevents them from fulfilling their duty.
Try addressing my points rather than just flipping out because I called you a coward for arguing in favor of an unjust system.
PopeMaIone t1_iuti53r wrote
I'd say the system works. It's been working for 200 years. At most a person should get minimum wage for jury duty. Nobody is getting paid $30 an hour by the state to do a duty we have as a citizen. If you don't think this country is worth doing anything for free for, leave. Go to a better place. You won't.
RunningOnPunkTime t1_iutj0cm wrote
"don't improve the system! Just leave" Why would I leave? I want to make this country better rather than licking the boots of some dudes who died over 100 years ago. If you don't want people to be paid a living wage for jury duty that's fine, just advocate for a system where people can miss work and still have the resources they need.
The system might work fine (debatable), but why not make it better? America is the richest country in the world. Why shouldn't we be better? It sounds like all you want is some flaccid America that barely limps by. That's pathetic.
PopeMaIone t1_iutke5o wrote
I think I'd rather invest in a national healthcare plan then worry about paying for jury duty. We can't fix everything with other people's money....or can we...2030 with RunningOnPunkTime as our President spending 1000% of our annual GDP like NBD. Wait, why is our country debt ridden and stagnant? Dude this over promising, over spending and stifling taxation and regulations has turned America into just another socialist hellscape. Lock ROPT up for being incompetent and selling pipe dreams.
Alarm clock rings at 6am. I just had the worst nightmare. A reddit leftist ran the country promising everything to everyone and fucked it all up making no one happy.
RunningOnPunkTime t1_iutlel3 wrote
You really can't help but strawman can you? Not gonna actually address a single point or really even make an argument. Have a good night bud
PoiLethe t1_iut64tj wrote
No we aren't. But america has its duty to us as much as we have a duty to it, and it's not holding its side of the bargain. If God doesn't meet me halfway, God ain't getting my sacrifices and work no more.
PopeMaIone t1_iut6fg7 wrote
Okay, so blow off an unexcused jury duty summons and watch the government meet you the full way with a warrant for your arrest or a fine.
PoiLethe t1_iut6nms wrote
I'm already spiraling dude! Let's just find out where rock bottom really is.
PopeMaIone t1_iut7cw7 wrote
You're acting like I care if you get yourself in trouble for blowing off jury duty. What I do find comical is people like you and the guy I was replying to thinking they are in a position to make demands of pay because their time is so much more valuable than the rest of us. Nobody likes jury duty. Only entitled clowns make demands of being paid $35 or $50 an hour to show up. I bet you're also the type to tell the cop he can't arrest you as you're getting yanked by your neck through your freshly broken car window.
PoiLethe t1_iut8ta9 wrote
You're acting like you don't understand the point is that I think the rules should change and everyone should be able to survive on their income whether they are on jury duty or working at their job. The governments not increasing minimum wage to a livable wage? My value is less than livable? I don't owe them some civic duty that would put me in the streets. And the people on trial are owed a jury of their peers, per the laws. Are they getting that? Clearly not. The government is not fulfilling their duty by their own metrics. How hard is that for you to comprehend?
PopeMaIone t1_iuta0rm wrote
I get the basic premise that was being made. One could also argue a duty is a duty and you shouldnt be paid anything for it. It's one of the few things apart from paying taxes you must do to have the privilege of being an American. And since I'm not a self-loathing American, I actually believe it is a privilege to be American.
Having said that, I also don't think asking for minimum wage is out of order like the other commenter suggested which is why I didn't reply to them. I replied to the guy that went even further and said he'd need even more than that. He'd need an "actual wage" to show up to do his duty which could mean different things to different people but let's just be conservative and say $25 to $50 an hour. That's absurdly entitled and unrealistic thinking and if you don't think so then I think you may be suffering from that same entitled mindset. Not to mention this guy is just talking out of his ass. You know he's going to go to jury duty if he gets summoned and can't get out of it. So why talk tough online?
PoiLethe t1_iutc19q wrote
I think that's fine as long as you have enough time to prepare for a dip in wages. But if you don't know how long it will take that will definitely have a different effect on your bills if you are preparing for a week or a month. I understand duty, and I've created my bills around being able to afford things on minimum wage already. But for others that make more, but not as much in savings, I can see not being prepared for something that lasts that long, like a phone that's not paid off because you knew you'd be able to cover it every month, a loan, etc. If all those bills could be...given a forbearance in light of your duty that would make it a lot more tolerable. Idk if that's a thing already or what.
Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments