Submitted by giggles-mcgee t3_yk72lq in Pennsylvania
Per the below website, PPL is increasing their default rate for electricity again. This time last year they had increased from 7.544/kWh to 9.502/kWh on December 1st 2021.
Edit: Also, this is up 93.69% from the original 7.544 cents we were all paying in November last year to the new rate taking effect 12/1/22. Absolutely awful.
We also have a house that is (was) heated only with baseboard electric. We are lucky enough that we could put money aside and buy a woodstove. Best decision we ever made. We keep the heat on in the bathrooms and kitchen, and pay $200/cord to heat the rest of the house. We go through about 6 full cords of wood a winter doing this - depending on how bad the winter is and how long the cold weather hangs around.
We are going to have to seriously consider going this route
Do you mind sharing what kind of stove you bought and the sq footage of your house, if possible?
It's terrible. If you're handy look into the DIY mini-split heat pumps. I installed one and it handles like 80% of my heating and stays very efficient down to the single digit temps. Mine is by MRCOOL and it's meant to be installed by a homeowner with good DIY skills. Oh and PPL will give you a $400 rebate for doing it.
I got a Blue Ridge one and did 90% of the work myself and got a guy to come charge it. Best decision ever, it’s $5000 total plus $100/month in electricity and I would have spent 4000 on oil this winter instead.
I got mine before the prices went berserk (early 2021) so it was only $1300 from Costco for an 18k BTU model. I think they're going for about $2100 now. But even at $2100...not a bad deal.
Mine’s a big boy, hence the prices. 48k btu, 4 indoor heads.
Oh! Ha yeah, that's a whole different category. Mine's just heating my little cabin which is pretty open except for the bedrooms.
Heat pumps are the jam. Ours are Mitsubishi, 5 heads. Changed our whole experience with our house.
Thanks! Definitely will look into it
You think that is bad, we have oil heat would be a cool $5000-$6000 in oil this winter. Our saving grace is I got a wood insert over the summer so I plan on using that as much as possible, hopefully knocking a grand or two off that.
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PECO has a program for financial hardship, PPL might too.
Do you know how to dress for the cold?
More pocket lining, who would have guessed it (not me)
Remember when they said shutting down TMI would make your power cheaper? That was a fucking lie.
I think TMI was part of First Energy/met-ed
TMI was run by exelon, but I remember when the decommissioning astroturf campaign was being run that was a reason they would mention, or saving tax payer money.
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Who is they? All of it is private companies
https://www.pennlive.com/news/2018/06/nuclear_power_shutdowns_tmi_en.html
To be fair, from what I saw when I skimmed both these articles is they both mentioned that prices should stay steady in the near term but potentially increase over the years. But that was four years ago.
This coupled with ~$6/gal heating oil should make for a real fun winter...
Natural gas is up but will still be the most economical was to heat a house this winter.
That's great for me and I assume you, but not every house is connected to a gas line.
I thought propane was the most economical way being that it went up the least?
Pipelines are a much less expensive delivery system than trucks. Don’t worry, propane is going up too, more than double last year’s price. Wear sweaters and long underwear this winter.
I just filled my tanks for $ 0.10/ gal more than last year
Check out the propane spot price here. https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/propane
That’s a cool site. Looks like +6% ytd ? Also EIA has decades of price data here Edit: link
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=W_EPLLPA_PRS_SPA_DPG&f=W
Shit. I was looking at two years ago. $.88/ gallon wholesale, what’s propane going for retail now?
Just purchased 100 gallons (minimum) today. I wanted to cry.
Gouging is perfectly legal it seems. Paying CEO’s 100,000 times the going rate for actual employees is expensive.
I need to buy solar panels...
Yea unfortunately if the panels are out of budget, to try to go with a renewable provider is much more expensive - 17.9 or 21.9 cents per kWh per PA Power Switch
I bought em and it was break even at best. But insulated me from cost increases. Still have a grid connection but I live a lifestyle that needs it. If I was power conscious prob not. But I don't wanna be like my parents yelling about light bulbs and 5 cents worth of light.
The parent statement is something I can relate to also. We got yelled at if we left lights on. Somehow my parents always caught us when we left the room for 5 minutes to use the bathroom or something. They would turn the lights off in that room, and then yell at us when we came back and turned them on. Don't get me started on touching the thermostat! We would never dare touch that thing any time of the year.
Eleven cents compounded annually for 40 years almost covers my therapy bills! 😜
I grew up in the 1970’s during the energy crisis. Everyone stopped putting up lights at holidays. Parents yelled about lights and heating. My dad had to wake my brother up early to help take cars to gas station as you could only fill up on certain days and you had to go early. That was OPEC caused.
I chopped wood and built a fire ~daily~ to heat our rickety old house. Lolll oil soared along w int rates in 1981 ish.
Wait I thought all that fracking was helping lower our energy costs… oh shit wait
Imagine how high it would be without it. People in the UK are paying 2k a month for electricity.
Fracking hasn't even been breaking even. It's the dumbest solution possible unless you're a landowner leasing mineral rights
There is a glut of natural gas right now. The prices in this country in some areas is falling so fast because of it. You're right, fracking has zero effect /s
Houston area thanks to all the fracking in Oklahoma.
Propane? Really. That's not natural gas.
Fuck long day of work lol, you are correct but yet…
Sorry for the paywall but you get all you need to know from the 1st paragraph.
We have so much under our feet that the price could be zero except they need to make some money to pay off the loans they take out for the initial drilling costs.
Let’s see if it hits industrial prices then because the US EIA is pricing it pretty high right now
Lots of residential pricing is locked in like PA has. So the price fluctuations on supply side doesnt matter, reflect in the price.
Pa has a community solar bill that has been sitting in legislation for years, while most of the surrounding states have passed, or are close to passing theirs. If it passes people could potentially save upwards of 15-20% on their electricity bills when purchasing power directly from a project. Vote Vote Vote.
Could and will are two separate words. The states surrounding PA pay similar electric prices.
Yea. That’s true. Rates are pretty average everywhere, but those people who have the opportunity to purchase power directly from a community solar program typically have a 15-20% rate reduction. The more projects that get built, the more people it will benefit.
The environment takes a beating. People complain about over development but have no issue filling what once were productive farms with solar farms. In some cases we are trading food for power.
The proposed bill caps these projects at 5MW each, and a project that size has a footprint of around 20-30 acres. That’s a small chunk of farmland to power around 800 homes. I think global warming and droughts pose more of a threat to our food chain, and you need one to fight the other. I agree that agriculture will take a hit, but you would be surprised how much acreage is out there that could support a project and is not agricultural. I try to look at all the pro’s and con’s, but I am pro solar so my opinion is somewhat biased.
I wish they would use parking lots and commercial roof tops 1st. I've seen in NY State where they converted 150 acres parcels into solar.
I know. So much potential there. I have seen a few shopping plazas in central Pa who have installed solar above their parking lot and there are probably tens of thousands of acres of rooftop that could be used. There just isn’t much incentive right now in PA. Hopefully that changes soon. 🤞🏻
Fucking pieces of shit. Corporate greed needs to be fucking taken care of.
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Its not corporate greed. They have to pay more to produce energy. Are they just supposed to obsorb the cost and lose money?
If you think you can do it cheaper, go for it. Produce your own energy.
Bullshit.
Excellent rebuttal
I mean, when someone looks at a liquid and says, that's a solid. What can you really say to that without wasting your time and energy?
CEO prolly doesn’t need 9 mil plus what ever bonuses. He could prolly get by with a little less than that. Prolly the rest of the executives too. But hey. 15c/kWh is fine so he can keep his lifestyle while the rest of us freeze am I right?
If he was paid half your bill wouldn't be lowered one cent.
Man those boots taste pretty good this time of year
From my layperson's understanding, PPL is obligated to negotiate the best price reasonably possible. Suppliers may profit from pricing, but distributers may not; pass-through only. Maybe PPL did the best they could, but have my doubts. This needs to be investigated.
Energy costs right now are fluctuating. So who know when they negotiated the price.
PPL doesn’t produce anything. They shop the energy market and supposedly pass on volume discount to their customers. I would love to hear their explanation for why the PA Power Switch marketplace can provide offers such as $0.118/kWh with a 3 year lock but they can’t even come close.
I have their standard offer @ like 8.xx/kwh. Will this cause my rates to increase even though I'm locked in for a year? Fucking ridiculous. We need more nuclear power. Paying 15c/kwh to pollute the earth even more. BS.
You’d have to see when you locked in. I believe the standard offer is for 12 months. If you locked that in last year before that increase in December yours is probably expiring very very soon
Yeah mine resets December 1 from 7.0x to 14 something. FML.
Same. So fucking mad right now.
You're locked in for the year. I did the same thing back in May. About a month before your anniversary date, you should receive a mailer and/or email from your supplier regarding renewing. While they'll likely charge somewhat more, it may still beat PPL's proposed rate.
My hunch is PPL itself is purposedly raising their rate excessively to shift more people to shop 3rd party suppliers they (and/or insiders) own an interest in. Would like to see this investigated. PA is among the most energy diverse. Such large increases don't make sense to me unless there's corruption involved.
Standard offer is going away, as the suppliers won’t sign up for it anymore/right now. Once your contract is up, it will default to the PPL 14 cent rate unless you choose another supplier.
Fuck off already! They raised rates 40% in June…right before AC season conveniently.
Fucking morons voted for this policy and here we are. Elections have consequences...
what policy?
If they had their way gas would be $7 a gallon.
That’s never been a reality any time ever for anything. Stop watching Fox News and read a book
I don't watch fox news but thanks for your projection of anyone that has different options or knowledge of you.
AOC in one of her press conferences has stated she wishes it was $7 so people would be less reliant on fossil fuels.
Can't wait to hear about those record profits ...
I make a pretty good living and honestly things are starting to get out of hand. I have no idea how an average person is going to be able to live soon. I have a family of 3 and our utilities and food bills have doubled over the past year, but our income went up around 15% . Not sure what needs to happen to fix this but our government (democrats and republicans) don’t seem to be doing shit about it.
They keep blaming the shortages but nothing is being done to help the shortages. The feds raising rates is supposed to kill off demand and fight inflation…but there’s always a demand for food and utilities.
Well that's what privatized utilities, a Republican legislature, and a utility commission that rubber stamps any rate increase request gets you
The prices are high everywhere in the surrounding Northeast
Seems energy prices are high in all of North America and Western Europe. The prices we're stuck with are awful, but the news coming out of Europe is depressing. If it's a cold winter in Europe there may be quite a few deaths.
Do you think utilities are publicly owned in every other state?
They’re doing this because they know people are going to use electric heaters instead of gas/oil more often. It’s like we should invest into nuclear or something.
You realize that PPL pulls much of their power from the Excelon nuclear plant, right?
You think they’re not doing it for profit? How naive.
2nd largest nuclear energy in the country and they're still all about $$$$$
Vote with your wallets next week
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Thank you for the warning.
This is why I got solar.
I know this is sounds like a big increase, but I just got off a plan paying over 18 cents. Last month my bill was for $347.00 .... One year ago I was paying about 1/2 this for the same usage
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You can lock in to the standard offer program before that. I locked my rates in in May and I am sitting pretty at like $0.07.
The issue is that the standard offer program only locks for a year. so once that is up anyone that locked in will be looking at 14 cents coming December 1 or in June to whatever the new rate will be. And if you try to lock in the standard offer now, you’re at 12.3 cents which is pretty high given we were just around 7 cents like you said
I locked in May. I don't think what you mentioned is a problem with the program. I'm pretty happy with my locked in rate (met-ed). I actually bought a electric space heater because we plan on keeping our house cold due to oil prices but using heat from electricity to keep it comfortable.
I ran some numbers and it will be cheaper for us to heat with a space heater than it is for us to keep our house at 70 with oil.b
The standard offer program ended in June
I don't use PPL. I wonder if Met-ed still have companies participating?
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Thank God it’s been a mild fall. I could remember the temps dipping below freezing in September but with global warming I still have petunias flowering and pepper plants growing. Well more blankets and sweaters
Time to get solar panels, folks
Papowerswitch.com?
Nationalize the energy business yall
Thank you Joe Biden.
Thanks democrats!!!!!
Republicans have controlled the state legislature for a while now...which Democrats are you referring to?
The ones who can’t read sarcasm!!!!!!
Is that what that was? Because it looked like a half-baked complaint from a serial whiner. But what do I know? I'm just a very stable genius.
Please, tell me more about what I think and how I speak, genius!!!!
Clearly you can't read sarcasm, Democrat.
It's bullshit, our electric bill was $873.00 this month.
Republicans warned this would happen with all the terrible policies the left have pushed. Now we all have to live with the consequences.
You do realize that Republicans have controlled the pa legislature since forever right? Or do they get a pass like Trump? You know they guy who said he takes 0 responsibility ever. For such a grade A tough guy he is a grade A pussy when it comes to consequences
The economy was rolling along great under that grade A pussy.
Lofl did you miss the world collapsing under his leadership. Jesus fucking christ you people are blind. Also you may want to check out the deficit now compared to when fuckstick was in. It went down massively. While your at it do the defecite under every republican since Reagan. Smaller government my ass.
If normal people being able to afford to buy groceries and homes, and not being on the verge of WW3 with a nuclear power is "the world collapsing", then I'd love to know what you call this time in our history.
You should tell your republican legislature to raise the minimum wage then... oh wait then prices would go up?!? Oh man. What an argument that was. Prices still look like 2008 when it was raised last?
It wasn't though....
Compelling argument please keep your eyes closed
You're the one making the wild claim. How was the world collapsing under Trump? The burden of proof is on YOU!
If you were asleep during that dumspter fire of 4 years nothing g I can say will convince you
So... You can't prove it can you? Bonus points if you compare things like the economy, inflation, the price of gas, the price of groceries, aggressive adversaries, world peace etc.
World peace? We didn't have places in our own border how about insurrection on Jan 6th. The best thing I have to say is thank God all those rednecks are incompetent. Trump didn't bail them out either funny that.
Lol you have nothing. Absolutely nothing. Sad.
Going to bed I have a job have fun collecting ssi and bitching about socialism
And straight to personal insults. So Typical.
What happened to "fuck your feelings" same thing about back the blue unless they coming for you. Am I right?
Lol I like you. You’re fun. Not very good at this but fun!
End the Fed
Could not agree more.
this is the core issue even though people will ignorantly downvote it :/
100% the corps are price gouging and that's fucking greedy bullshit...
but if you look at the value of practically any currency vs gold over the last 100 years, they've all lost value, and it's all but directly tied to legal counterfeiting (supply inflation of the monetary good, in one word- debasement)
2% inflation = -50% net worth in 35 years. this system is designed to favor a class of people nearest the new/easy/free money, financial institutions, bankers, big corp execs... lobbyists...
this inflation is theft in the form of bailouts and subsidies for big corps
this is what happens when money is controlled by humans, corruption and entropy - what is your currency divisible by? money is a tool just like a yardstick but yardsticks are always 36" long ... your money is divisible by a question mark (no one knows how many dollars exist or will exist in the future...)
meat-based monetary policy is clearly inadequate and has proven time and time again to be catastrophic.
learn what bitcoin is folks, it's a separate track, a people's money. for the first time in human history we can opt out of that corruption and entropy at the heart of our monetary system- code [free speech] and math... monetary rules, with out rulers.
let the govs and corps jerk each other off until their money is worthless. opt out, learn about the peaceful revolution that is bitcoin.
So all of modern economics is wrong and crypto currency is going to fix everything? Instead of addressing systemic corruption through institutional change we should all invest in the latest and greatest magic currency system? Because it's totally not a ponzi scheme. You are getting down voted for posting this stuff because it is nonsense.
>So all of modern economics is wrong and crypto currency is going to fix everything?
No, but humans have clearly corrupted/taken advantage of these systems...
Reality is "modern economics" is fundamentally theoretical in nature, we can either trust some people (federal reserve, their banking and corporation buddies) or we can trust some relatively simple code and math to ensure a stable monetary tool.
the fed just raised rates by .75 - think of what that does to poorer nations? to people already struggling to pay for energy...
think of WHY they're doing this - it's not just a pandemic 2 years ago, some ~5 trillion new dollars were added to our system.
>Instead of addressing systemic corruption through institutional change we should all invest in the latest and greatest magic currency system?
I'm not saying we shouldn't address systemic corruption, i'm saying we [the people] will be FAR more empowered to do so if the gov/corps can't just turn off our bank account overnight because they don't like what we're saying ... we'll have more economic/financial sovereignty and with it more power to hold politicians and private interests accountable.
>You are getting down voted for posting this stuff because it is nonsense.
It took me 5+ years of saying shit like that before i actually tried to learn what bitcoin was :/ are you sure you understand how it works and the impact hard monetary policy can have? The truth is you're ignorant as we all were...
>Reality is "modern economics" is fundamentally theoretical in nature, we can either trust some people (federal reserve, their banking and corporation buddies) or we can trust some relatively simple code and math to ensure a stable monetary tool.
So if this true then what stops the fed or whatever bad actor from just usurping crypto currency once it somehow surplants the existing system? Why should this new theoretical system serve people better?
Currency doesn't exist in a vacuum it is tied to global production, distribution, demand, and global events. Which you seem to understand, but don't at the same time since you think that somehow changing currency would alter this dynamic and empower individuals. I mean by your logic why don't we just do away with currency all together and trade goods and services directly?
I get that crypto is appealing and the interest in it has generated a profitable market if you wagered correctly over the past decades, but calling it a substitute for the current global system is naivety to the point of ridiculous.
>So if this true then what stops the fed or whatever bad actor from just usurping crypto currency once it somehow surplants the existing system? Why should this new theoretical system serve people better?
They can't. This is a fundamental point and function of bitcoin, no centralized entity/person can control it- (don't you think they would have shut this shit down by now? lol)
Updates to code involve a 95% consensus of network participants.... try getting 95% of people to agree on something this critical and tied to their personal value...
>Currency doesn't exist in a vacuum it is tied to global production, distribution, demand, and global events.
100%, but you're omitting a key factor... the quantity of units of the monetary good... if suddenly we add some ~5 trillion dollars to the system (giving some 4T to big corps no doubt) - that has a real economic implications for the short term AND long term... 2 years later each dollar is worth substantially less because there are now more of them available. CPI is a lagging indicator of this and the fed pulls the lever the other way... back and forth. They bail out the banks/corps, your dollar is worth less a few years later... they claim "we're reversing course to reduce inflation" ... they do it again for the next crisis... all while buying yachts and bunkers on the side.
>I mean by your logic why don't we just do away with currency all together and trade goods and services directly?
No this makes no sense, bitcoin has practically nothing to do with a barter economy. Money is a tool much like a yardstick, only bitcoin is a definitive 21 million and fiat currencies are a variable rate / unknown. Mathematically, scientifically, logically speaking, would you prefer a yard divided by 3 feet/36 inches or a question mark?
>I get that crypto is appealing and the interest in it has generated a profitable market if you wagered correctly over the past decades, but calling it a substitute for the current global system is naivety to the point of ridiculous.
I find it far more naïve and ridiculous that we would continue to trust other humans to orchestrate monetary systems for us when history has proven them incapable of doing so fairly.
Why rely on trust when we can rely on science, math, code, energy, and a consensus?
Rules with out rulers... it sounds like magic but it's actually possible, it has a 99.9% uptime since 2009...
Regardless, I don't expect bitcoin to substitute our meat-based systems for many decades or even centuries... in fact I suspect the fiat money scam will always exist in some form or another... it's besides the point... there's corporate money (ie- gift cards)... there's government money (USD, Euros etc) ... and there's Bitcoin... which i see generally as a people's money.
It's my feeling that as people learn what Bitcoin is, how it can benefit their freedom and privacy over existing monetary systems- they'll come around. But remember, it's a fixed supply... There will only ever be 21 million bitcoin and the "active" supply is dwindling (people aren't selling) ... It's just supply and demand... it's all happening in real time, you can even monitor/verify it yourself since it's a public ledger (good luck trying this with any other currency).
Anyway, some listening-
"Rules with out rulers... it sounds like magic but it's actually possible, it has a 99.9% uptime since 2009."
You are pretty much pitching a MLM scheme in the way you present this, which makes sense because your sources are a guy who makes his living off selling bitcoin to people and some random guy's youtube channel. Bitcoin doesn't mean anything if the existing financial actors prevent it from being used. Crypto was a gamble that paid off for a bunch of early investors and is now a glorified craps table, with a side of runaway energy consumption. It incorporates some interesting technology and has some philosophical implications, but its not revolutionary.
>Bitcoin doesn't mean anything if the existing financial actors prevent it from being used.
they can't, they won't... it's a trojan horse they can't resist... because it has better fundamentals than any other money our species has ever known, they will [and are] getting on board... they will probably abuse this adoption phase too, flip flopping "we're gonna ban it" to dump the price and buy in while it's low...
but it's besides the point, whether they abuse it or not, whether we hold them accountable or not... it won't matter because it's in short supply and I have little doubt that in time that will be clear.
regardless, you can buy/sell bitcoin like you pizza or weed... it's no different and you can be damn sure people will use it that way (and have)
>It incorporates some interesting technology and has some philosophical implications, but its not revolutionary.
I disagree, it's already banked millions of people who have been left out of the lucrative and exclusionary (see: racist/bigoted) financial systems of the west...
We have free to use, inclusive, global, digital cash now... that is a revolution beyond any our species has ever experienced... free of centralized control/corruption/entropy ... with every new discovery/tech there are early adopters/believers - people said the internet was for terrorists and pedophiles once...
consider:
Great explanation and I agree but I'd like to 1-up you. Learn about Monero in addition to Bitcoin. Data is and has been the new currenc and tool for control. A public block chain of all transactions will only be used against the average person (while there are immoral people). Monero is the hard cash equivalent "private" cryptocurrency that has the current potential to fully disrupt the world powers. There's a reason Monero is the main cryptocurrency used on the Dark Net.
🙏
i highly recommend giving this a listen- https://youtu.be/MXKe6VA-DVM
>but if you look at the value of practically any currency vs gold
Why would you look at the price of gold over the price of something like stocks though? Small amonuts of inflation promotes actually investing money rather than sitting on it, and that promotes growth of the economy.
why wouldn't you? gold has been considered the top form of money for millennia, stocks are a much newer thing (especially with regard to the masses) - and stocks aren't money... it's not a bearer asset, it requires trust in others and you can't trade your apple stocks directly for a house.
>Small amonuts of inflation promotes actually investing money rather than sitting on it, and that promotes growth of the economy.
i don't disagree with this, it makes sense... but is it worth the clearly inevitable human corruption and entropy?
if you had to build a house and someone gestured "1 yard is THIS long" ... would you roll with their hand signals or would you use a measuring tape?
but much more importantly, bitcoin has an inflation rate, it's by design, we don't need central bankers (influenced by big corps or governments or themselves) to orchestrate monetary policy, we can do it with code. bitcoin's inflation rate is around 1.6% https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/stats/inflation/ and steadily falling (in a long while to zero)
it emulates the mining of a precious and truly finite resource... unlike gold which has an ever inflating and variable rate supply https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/research/gold-rrs-2022-surge-in-recent-discoveries
most importantly, this idea that we need to spend to grow the economy- that's paramount - it's entirely unsustainable... it's the core driver of climate change... it drives producers to make the cheapest shit possible that needs to be replaced every year so they can make more profits... they want you to hate your money... invest it in Facebook, Apple, Tesla so they can buy yachts and fucking blow it on garbage products...
really, as a species we need to focus on the long term, 2% a year = -50% net worth in 35 years... we can't save for the future (we're literally guided/educated not too...) we can't support our kids or grand kids (let alone ourselves in many places) ... inflationary money is unsustainable and destructive...
here's a much more eloquent variation of my rantings lol-
https://calebfenton.substack.com/p/bitcoin-fixes-everything-because?s=w
Batman1384 t1_iurv2fm wrote
Genuinely won’t be able to afford electricity when this goes up. It’s either freeze in the winter or pay out the ass.
Never buy a house with baseboard electric heating.