Submitted by Wellsem20 t3_ylo5dd in Pennsylvania
I live at my moms house and when I have friends over sometimes we hang out in my car in my townhome parking lot for maybe a max of 3 hours. I’ve been reported 3 times for this by my neighbors to my landlord. My landlord told my mom that it is illegal to loiter in Red Lion Pennsylvania.. but is it really loitering if I’m not doing anything suspicious and in my car?
TLDR: if you make someone uncomfortable doing it, you’re loitering. If they call the cops and you refuse to to leave, you’re going to jail for disturbing the peace.
§ 6-202 Conduct Prohibited. [Ord. 996-7, 6/14/1999] 1. It shall be unlawful for an individual or for groups of two or more persons, regardless of age, to congregate on or in streets, parks, public or private buildings, places of amusement or public or private places to which the owner or tenant has not given consent in the Borough of Red Lion at any time if those persons are causing alarm, danger, or discomfort to the inhabitants of the Borough or users of Borough thoroughfares or sidewalks, public parks and public or private places or buildings by creating a breach of the peace or a danger of the breach of the peace, the obstruction of pedestrians or vehicles, any disturbance or alarm to the comfort or repose of any person, or the obstruction, harassment or interference of any person lawfully in any such street, park, public or private building, place of amusement or public or private place or sidewalk. This section shall be in addition to other conduct prohibited elsewhere in this Code of Ordinances and in Chapter 55 of the Pennsylvania Crimes Code, 18 Pa.C.S.A. § 5501 et seq. and, specifically, § 5503 (disorderly conduct), § 5505 (public drunkenness) and § 5507 (obstructing highways and other public passages). This conduct shall not prevent or prohibit the congregation of two or more persons for purposes of lawful assembly or for purposes otherwise protected by the Constitutions of the United States of America and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania or to prohibit peaceful picketing in the case of labor disputes or in the exercise of the constitutional right of assembly so long as such activity does not otherwise constitute a breach of this section.
But it’s at my house, I am a tenant..
Always get consent
Like you just sit there and talk or I assume scroll on your phones? And why in your car not your room?
I don’t think you’re mentioning the entire story. Why do you hang out in a car for 3 hours? Why not go to a park or something? Why not hangout inside your home?
Honestly, if I saw that I'd think you were a weirdo. I wouldn't call the cops, because I hate cops, but I'd still think you were a weirdo.
I don’t see how you could be charged with loitering on your own property. Disturbing the peace maybe, depending on the situation? But sitting on your own property, be it in your car, in your house, on your grass, shouldn’t make a difference.
Edit: If you’re renting, check the lease! Some landlords set stipulations about this kind of stuff.
It sounds like you’re parked in a shared lot? Are you a minor? If not are you on the lease? If not, you’re not a tenant. At best you’re a guest and at worst an illegal occupant. In either case (legally a tenant or a guest) if the landlord says no, don’t. If they hear from another tenant about loitering and decide to call the cops, do you want to be the test case?
What are you doing in a parked car for 3 hours?
Your neighborhood have an HOA? If so, then you can definitely be hit with loitering in your own driveway.
Also, you’re just sitting in a car for multiple hours. Townhouses are generally packed neighborhoods, so you got a lot of neighbors who can see you. They don’t know you aren’t watching their place to rob it later, they don’t know that you aren’t stalking people, they don’t know you aren’t waiting for someone to leave their home so you can attack them. This can maybe be chalked up to paranoia on their part.
Back in my retail manager days, there was a Uber driver who would hang out in my parking lot while waiting for notifications. Totally innocent, not up to anything weird. But we didn’t know what he was doing. He did this for a few days before it was brought to my attention. All of my female staff felt uncomfortable walking past his car, because they had no idea what this dude was about. I went out and talked to him, he felt awful about his unintended effect, and he started parking somewhere else.
The point is, you’re creeping people out. That’s obviously not your intent, but it’s what you’re doing. I get that it’s annoying, and that you aren’t doing anything wrong. But the solution is to either go door to door and let people know you’re just hanging out, and that you’re sorry you worried them, or go park somewhere else to hang.
You're on private property of which you are a tenant. No criminal loitering or trespassing charge could be upheld. The landlord may be able to take civil action, depending on lease. Note, your behavior would be annoying and disconcerting to me as a fellow tenant. Don't want a bunch of people hanging out around my cars, no matter the purpose.
I'm not OP, but that's not necessarily suspicious behavior.
I own my own home in NE Philly and sat outside on my stop yesterday catching up with a buddy I haven't seen for a while. We were loud, laughing, discussing politics, etc. Granted, there's only one neighbor to my right and two to my left and they really don't care but the fact is that people sit outside and BS all the time.
Sitting outside, I get. I do that too all the time. Nothing weird about that at all. But OP stated that he sits in his car with his friends for 3 hours. I think that’s kind of weird. Like I said, I wouldn’t call the cops. But that is weird. Like why not go sit on a porch or something?
This is one of those things u have to realize that 90% of the cops in red lion have nothing to do, and 90% of the people of red lion have nothing to do but call the cops on other ppl. The experience in red lion is bad in general but gets exponentially worse the darker ur skin is. My advice is drive around or find a park
Sounds like a lot of small Pennsylvania towns tbh
Yeah. I would buy lawn chairs and ask the landlord if that is okay. My former tenants in Pottstown I did not let them hang out front of the houses. Too many guns and too many shitheads looking for trouble.
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I'm old and especially if it was at night, I would be creeped out by strangers sitting near my home in a car for hours. If I knew the kids and knew that it was just kids hanging out and nothing else it wouldn't bother me. I have to be honest though it would get my attention if they were strangers. Kids who I'm familiar with just sitting there on their phones and talking? Who cares, no problem.
Are you being noisy? If so, that’ll attract attention. I live next to a school yard, and every weekend there are young people in their cars, just hanging out. This doesn’t bother me in the least, until they start getting very loud, reving their engines, and doing donuts in the lot, and it’s after 11:00 pm. Then I get pissed. If you’re doing any of those thing, then you’re definitely attracting trouble.
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MasterManufacturer72 t1_iv099zo wrote
No it is not.