Do i have to stay past my scheduled shift at work?

Submitted by ggtt555 t3_z0l8cy in Pennsylvania

Sorry if this isn’t the right place to ask but im very confused.

https://www.dli.pa.gov/Individuals/Labor-Management-Relations/llc/Pages/Wage-FAQs.aspx

Section 5 essentially says you may be punished for refusing to work overtime but does that just mean working more than 40 hours (like a 6th day of work) or is this also referring to staying past a scheduled shift? At my job it’s very busy this time of the year and would love to know if i may be required to stay late if asked. Thanks.

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Dredly t1_ix68avb wrote

There is no law, that I know of, that says an employer cannot require you to work more then 40 hours a week, as long as they are paying you the correct wage / hours and are not violating laws (like you can only operate a vehicle for X hours a day etc)

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You can be fired for it as well, as you can be fired for any reason that is not a protected one

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however you will most likely win unemployment if you are fired for being required to work outside your agreed to schedule

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--Cr1imsoN-- t1_ix696xo wrote

I don't think there is any law that prevents an employer from forcing you to work over the agreed upon hours, of course, you're free to go to tell them to fuck themselves and quit for an employer that will acknowledge agreed upon hours. Life is too short for toxic employers, especially now. The power is within you, as the worker.

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Yomama-22 t1_ix6nqy5 wrote

Might want to make sure you didn’t sign an agreement to work overtime when needed. If you want to keep your job, that is.

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idiotdetector70 t1_ix66cw0 wrote

Depends on how you employer defines overtime pay. Some pay after 40 hours worked in a week, others will pay OT for anything over 8 hours in one day.

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phoenix762 t1_ix7jo5e wrote

I work for the feds, after my 8 hour shift I get paid OT. I work part time.

I cannot be forced to work past my tour. (Thank goodness for unions).

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ggtt555 OP t1_ix6f2vm wrote

for my employer it's anything over 40, so technically i should be fine to leave on time right?

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CltAltAcctDel t1_ix7tjt0 wrote

No, you wouldn’t be fine. The employer is required to pay OT for anything beyond 40 hrs in a week. If they require you to work 10 hours in a single day you aren’t required to pay OT so long as you aren’t exceeding 40 hours.

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skuc79 t1_ix9ovuk wrote

It depends on the employer too. If working in a call center that closes at say 9, and you are scheduled until 9, you may have to stay until all the calls are answered . If you work in retail and you work until 9, and the store closes at 9, you may have to stay until the last person leaves the store. If you are in food service, you may be off the floor at 9, but you may have to do a clean up, rolling silverware, filling condiments etc.

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Babymonster09 t1_ix6gp90 wrote

Anyone noticed already how shitty and pro employer labor laws are in PA?? 😒😒😒

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theski2687 t1_ix6o9c2 wrote

Yea the breaks part had me kinda shocked. No amount of time worked mandates a break? Are people expected to starve?

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Lance_lake t1_ix6r0cp wrote

> Yea the breaks part had me kinda shocked. No amount of time worked mandates a break? Are people expected to starve?

When there is no state law, it falls to federal law.

https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/workhours/breaks

The reason PA probably doesn't have a law is because it would just be a repeat of federal law.

EDIT: I stand corrected. /u/smuin538 pointed out that there was no federal law saying that we needed breaks. I could've sworn there was, but I guess it was my state law (in several states all using the same poster in the lunch room) that was providing it.

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smuin538 t1_ix71dsc wrote

There is no federal law stating that employers must provide breaks, just that breaks less than 30 minutes and interrupted breaks 30 minutes or longer must be paid time.

Many states have laws that mandate breaks for employees; unfortunately PA is not one of them.

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Lance_lake t1_ix7zq37 wrote

I stand corrected. Thank you for the prompt for me to look this up.

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theski2687 t1_ix7wvqy wrote

PA does have a law regarding breaks. And it is in fact just a repeat of the federal law

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IamSauerKraut t1_ix8bd5q wrote

It's a form of "Right-to-Work." A misnomer, really, as it's more like right-to-make-you-work to the inconvenience of your family and other responsibilities.

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Jinoyn t1_ix6djzo wrote

I thought the law in PA said something along the lines of there needing to be X amount of notice before an employer could require the extra time. This goes for any hours past your scheduled amount, but it’s been a few years since I’ve checked.

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Paladin936 t1_ix6a4au wrote

Yes. Your employer can require you to work overtime and discipline or terminate you if you refuse. If they ask you to work more than 40 hours and you’re non exempt, they just have to pay you time and a half for each hour over 40.

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killakam86437 t1_ix6h4t6 wrote

you should head over to r/WorkReform

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vinnie5451 t1_ix6f0kg wrote

You are expected to work a reasonable amount of OT and more then likely will be penalized after your fired by unemployment for not doing so

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MartialBob t1_ix6j3rh wrote

Pennsylvania is an at will employment state. That means if you do not have an employment contract or in a union you can be fired for whatever reason they want. Hypothetically, you can sue your employer for wrongful termination if the circumstance is truly egregious but lawyers cost money so it's not worth the time for most normal people.

So long as you're paid time and a half past 40 hours to your employer can demand you to stay for 12 hours. I've heard 16 but I'm not sure about that.

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Beautiful_Fee_655 t1_ix6r7pd wrote

Your employer can declare “mandatory overtime” with the expectation that you’ll work so many hours of OT in a week (including over so many hours in a day.) As long as they pay you at least time and a half for hours worked over 40 in a week, they are ok legally. Your only recourse is to find another job. Or your group unionize and negotiate a contract that limits mandatory OT.

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corners t1_ix6in1u wrote

What type of job do you do? If it is in the medical industry and you have people under your care depending on the circumstances you could be fire with cause and possibly charged with a crime.

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ggtt555 OP t1_ix6mfa4 wrote

All that will happen if I don’t stay is maybe my managers won’t get a bonus, nothing at all serious like that

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ggtt555 OP t1_ix7v7cn wrote

Just a little follow up for my specific situation. In the employee handbook it says you should follow your scheduled hours and they are supposed to get your approval before scheduling you for overtime so there’s that.

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chill175 t1_ix8oobs wrote

You have every right to refuse. They have every right to fire you, or to determine that you quit (walked out) when you left. Shitty? Yep. Legal? Also yep.

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Vast-Support-1466 t1_ix7dcgc wrote

Disciplined or Terminated - those are the employers' sole options. Discipline means "write-up/ speech", Terminate is obvious. There is no punishment, in terms of forfeited wage, altered schedules, or reduced hours. Those would be true labor issues to consult a lawyer over. Exempt employees are salaried persons - so as long as you're hourly, it's your bet to wager whether you'll lose the job <immediately> or not. Generally speaking, in this scenario, you're needed by the employer. THAT being said, let's assume they hang on to you until after the busy season, and then terminate based on some other reason (bc the OT refusal would NOT hold up in court at that point) - Go back to the discipline part now - be very careful what you sign, acknowledge, or disagree with.

Tread lightly.

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ggtt555 OP t1_ix7qbop wrote

I work very hard during my time there, do whatever i am asked of, and never talk back so tbh im not really to worried about being fired over it. Only a few people stay late usually so it’s not like im the one person refusing.

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wellaby788 t1_ix7jr45 wrote

It's an at will state.. they can and probably will fire you for not picking up overtime. Just might not be immediate, they will look to replace you first.

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Divinggumby t1_ix7mq2r wrote

Nope unless you’re something with emergency services but don’t be surprised when things get slow and you’re the first one be let go. Employers keep notes about this with who does the bare minimum and who helps out when it is needed. At the end of the year you may not get much of a bonus compared to others that put in the extra work.

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ggtt555 OP t1_ix7qiml wrote

I don’t want to give out too much information about me or where i work but this isn’t the kind of job where they give out bonuses at the end of the year and as far as when im on the clock i am one of the most productive people on my team and always help out my managers.

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Divinggumby t1_ix7swe4 wrote

What at Target? If it’s seasonal then you know your time is up so then it could go two ways. They say thank you for your time see you next year or hey you were a valuable team player we’re going to offer you this full time position. If that’s what you want to do great if not figure out what you want to do and be good at it. Check out the Real AF podcast since they have topics like this with people emailing in.

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noburdennyc t1_ix7ua0l wrote

Why are you being pushed to stay past your shift at work?

Where i work, it's shifts so if the person after me doesn't come in on time, it's on them for being late.

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ggtt555 OP t1_ix7upgf wrote

Basically there is still more work to be done because of poor planningand also not enough employees to actually get all the work done.

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noburdennyc t1_ix7vbxy wrote

Is it the type of work that cannot wait for the next day?

What do you mean by poor planning?

Just get all the work done before you shift is over or leave it for the next day.

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ggtt555 OP t1_ix7vvl7 wrote

Poor planning as in not putting enough people in a specific section of the store

And yes it can be left for the next day but then more product comes in and it just snowballs.

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noburdennyc t1_ix7xbqt wrote

if it snowballs they it will clearly show the problem to management.

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skuc79 t1_ix9qjok wrote

Oh so it is a store! I posted somewhere else, too, if on a sales floor, start cleaning up a little before your shift is over. If cashiering and it’s closing time, you would want to stay until all customers are checked out. Sometimes closers have additional clean up work to do.

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EricaM13 t1_ix7vc9k wrote

My first questions are always- did you sign a contract when employed stating your hours are from X to X? Is there a clause in that contract about overtime?

I signed a contract at my job that my hours are a hard 8-5, no more no less so if they ask me to stay late, I can outright refuse because my contract says no more, no less than 8-5 and OT is voluntary outside of those hours.

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ggtt555 OP t1_ix7w6ui wrote

I did not but i just found out that in the handbook if they want you to work overtime they are supposed to meet with you in advance and schedule you for it. Im fine with being scheduled for some overtime here and there but im the type of person where if i go in expecting to work 8 hours i base my whole day around it so I don’t want to be asked on the spot to stay for an extra 2.

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EricaM13 t1_ix7x8j3 wrote

If thats the case, use the handbook to deny the OT and ask that it is scheduled in advance because you do have a life outside of work. If that is the work place policy, then they need to uphold that policy as well.

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yourbrainoncbd t1_ix7zaat wrote

Yeah, pretty much. You have to get OT pay if you do.

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smrtazz101 t1_ix82dec wrote

If they are paying you, then yea..otherwise you can be fired

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No-Setting9690 t1_ix852ww wrote

I thought there is a 24 hour requirement when requiring additional work.

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Professional_Tip_867 t1_ix8knh8 wrote

I think it depends on whether you are caring for an actual physical person, like a child or a dependent adult. If you are in healthcare, you have to stay

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ronreadingpa t1_ix8n4qp wrote

Employers often have policies that are more favorable to employees than the law requires. For example, from my layperson's understanding, PA law doesn't require breaks at all for employees (except minors). Despite no legal requirement, many employers, likely including yours, provide one or more paid breaks plus an unpaid meal break, if scheduled for at least X number of hours, such as 6 or more.

To digress a bit, lots of issues get discussed during political campaigns, but generally little to nothing regarding worker and consumer protections. Most people assume they have legal rights they don't.

Every state in the U.S. is At-Will (some mention Montana as an exception, but my take is even most jobs there are at-will) unless one has a collective bargaining agreement / contract in place stating otherwise. With that said, larger employers are generally careful when laying off / terminating employees to avoid litigation and paying out unemployment more than they have to.

Now to your question, if it's a big box retail employer, make clear you need to leave at your end time. If pressed, say it's for family, school, etc. No need to go into details beyond that.

Bottom line, if you need to leave on time, leave. Or if it's a day you can extend, stay longer. Retail, if that's the job, is used to dealing with that along with call offs. Don't let managers guilt-trip you.

On a related topic, if the job is of a part-time nature (even if you're getting full-time hours currently), they can and likely will reduce hours after the holidays. If it's retail, Feb-March are the most brutal.

Hope this helps.

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ggtt555 OP t1_ixatpm9 wrote

Thank you this did help, and in my emplyee handbook it actually mentions picking up extra hours is strictly voluntary so i should be good.

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ggtt555 OP t1_ixafvyt wrote

Figured i make a follow up to my specific situation. At my company they want you to clock in and out on time and any OT is voluntary unless they meet with you and schedule it in advance.

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SpetsnazBubbles t1_ix6zh8a wrote

If you are hired as a part time employee no. If you are a full time employee then yes. You are by state law able to be mandated without notice HOWEVER There are rules to mandating you for example: 1.) OSHA & federal law require all scheduled shifts be at least 8 hours apart. So if you close but open the next day and there aren't 8 hours between the time you clock out and need to clock in this isn't legal. 2.) All overtime must be paid at 1.5 times your usual rate and overtime cannot exceed more than 10 hours in one week.

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[deleted] t1_ix66ih3 wrote

[removed]

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ggtt555 OP t1_ix66p4j wrote

I work overnight and would prefer to not have to work 12 hour shifts when im scheduled for 8, maybe thats just me though 🤷‍♂️

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nnnosebleed t1_ix67c2a wrote

Legally, they probably can't write you up for refusing to strain yourself. If they do, contact the labor board, they can probably answer these questions better than reddit, and if you're in the right, help you defend that.

and ignore this guy, nothing wrong with Life coming before work.

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wvlurker t1_ix6e6hc wrote

When you say "contact the labor board," what do you mean? The PA Labor Relations Board only deals with disputes related to management and unions not covered by the NLRB, and if OP has a union, they shouldn't be coming here with questions they should be taking to their union instead. This advice is not helpful because the PLRB probably cannot help OP.

Legally, without a contract stating otherwise, your employer can absolutely fire you for refusing to work 12 if you're scheduled for 8. You'll get unemployment, sure, but they can fire you. The answer to this is right on theFAQ at the Department of Labor and Industry (question 5).

I agree that the mandate to work overtime is bullshit and hate that employers are allowed to get away with it, but that's labor law in just about every state in this country, PA included.

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vinnie5451 t1_ix6fav4 wrote

They don’t have to write him up they can just fire him as it’s an at will state and if they need someone who can work OT they are free to get rid of you and find someone who will

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Skeeter-Pee t1_ix67a4t wrote

I would say if it isn’t a regular thing enjoy the OT pay and for being seen as a go to employee. Are you trying to work your way up or do you want a entry level position for a while. If you want to work your way up and make more money you gotta do the things others don’t want to sometimes. Hard work is usually rewarded and being rigid about your time off typically isn’t. Just my $.02

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jek39 t1_ix6826x wrote

on the flip side, being too much of a doormat about your time off is going to set a bad precedent. I believe in firmly setting those boundaries early. my time is my time. some employers will take whatever you give and more. It's certainly a balance game.

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ggtt555 OP t1_ix68scs wrote

Agree, if im scheduled to work for 8 hours ill work hard for that amount of time but wont want to stay longer, especially when im not trying to build a career at this company.

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jek39 t1_ix6b3tl wrote

absolutely. a lack of planning on their part does not constitute an emergency for you. that being said, if this is just a one time thing because someone else dropped the ball, I would personally probably stay the shift (assuming I'm not giving up something in my personal life to stay). if it's because they never plan correctly.... not my problem.

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ggtt555 OP t1_ix6ersb wrote

its a mixture of poor planning, understaffing, and the holidays so it isn't a one time thing, it's like a 2 month thing lol

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Skeeter-Pee t1_ix68feq wrote

With so many people refusing to do more than the minimum it’s easy to stand out anymore. Be flexible with your time while you earn OT and you’ll quickly advance. It’s never been easier to get ahead as so many people are “quiet quitting”.

Do you want to live paycheck to paycheck forever or risk being a doormat for a year or two to impress people and get ahead. Everyone will have a different view point.

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jek39 t1_ix6afsr wrote

yea of course. in some situations, that can absolutely be the right move to make. but I don't think refusing to work more hours than I agreed to has to mean I am suddenly living paycheck to paycheck. And I think once your boss sees you are a doormat there's no coming back from that. again just my opinion. that's just been my experience.

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ggtt555 OP t1_ix68ef2 wrote

I agree but this time of the year they want people to stay late pretty much every day because of poor decisions on management’s part aswell as understaffing so I don’t want to kill my self working my ass off on something that isn’t my fault. Plus to answer your question atm I don’t plan on working my way up in the company so im not super concerned about that, just wanted to know if im legally required to stay. Thanks

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candmjjjc t1_ix6a2g3 wrote

I do not believe you are legally required to stay. It sounds like they are not staffing correctly. That is the company's problem and not yours. No I cannot stay late is all the response you need to give them.

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SeaPoem717 t1_ix67xfk wrote

Your employer doesn't care about you and if you drop dead at work you can be replaced by the end of the week.

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candmjjjc t1_ix69f6b wrote

This is a legitimate question and I think your response is overly harsh and unnecessary to the conversation. You don't know this person and are projecting a bias on them. Even if they did want to play video games after their scheduled shift, that is their prerogative. Unscheduled required overtime is a mis-management issue and should not fall on the backs of workers. Everyone should be given consistent schedules and if there is an opportunity to make more money working overtime should be given the choice to do so or not.

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at-aol-dot-com t1_ix6wfwp wrote

A job that pays $x for 40 hours a week - Which this person has no problem working, and consistently.

How is that having “no responsibility ever?”

Next, wanna go tell enslaved people that they should be grateful? That at least they have work to fill their days with, and the occasional non-moldy meal? Remind them: More appreciation, wayyy less being a literal living person and expecting any non-grueling hours in their days

“Video games.” 😂

The idiocy and ignorance you display here is something something you really should talk to someone about. Someone who doesn’t think a human being should have any non-grueling in a 24 hour period.

Get some self respect while your at it, and stop bowing down and thanking employer who demand more of your time on top of your 40 hours, just bc they can, and have convinced you that REAL hardworkers should play the martyr and lash yourself to the wheel for extra hours over and over again.

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lazydaisytoo t1_ix7mfxa wrote

Wait till he hears that that “promotion” comes with a pay cut because the next level up is still expected to work 60 hours a week, but it’s salary, no overtime. All I ever got for being a team player and working harder was more expectations, they didn’t even give annual raises.

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thirteenoranges t1_ix68yki wrote

Why should someone get a special pass from their employer just because they made the decision to have kids?

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