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VilleIn97 t1_iwx7u5j wrote

The entire state should do this right meow.


ItsjustJim621 t1_iwxbruw wrote

You cat to be kitten me


aj1337h t1_iwyt1bd wrote

You could always mitten your kitten or be smitten


BadDesignMakesMeSad t1_iwzogh9 wrote

I know this is a joke but there actually is a way to kind of mitten your kitten. You can get nail caps which allows cats to keep their claws but also keep them from really messing up your furniture. It would be better to find behavioral ways to keep your cat from scratching your furniture but it’s a good last resort kind of a thing and a lot more ethical than declawing.


TankVet t1_iwxwq1o wrote

As a veterinarian, I don’t think it’s necessary to legislate against it. I don’t know any veterinarians who do it any more. Hell, I haven’t even had five people ask about it in the last five years? And none of them pushed back after being educated about the procedure.

Public resources could be better spent elsewhere. Do something about puppy mills, for example.


Sennva t1_iwy0xuj wrote

Maybe you live in a more enlightened area. The demand is definitely still out there.

I know a family who've had it done to every cat they've ever owned. They seem to consider it a necessary evil and not a big deal since their cats got over it and "seem fine".

Clearly there are still vets in the state who perform the surgery. There will always be someone unscrupulous out there which is why laws like this are necessary.


asrialdine t1_iwz8u9y wrote

When we stop debating how little we’re legally allowed to pay people, then I’ll give a little more credence to arguments like this one.

I’m sure you’re a great vet and the vets that you know are also great…it’s the ones who I don’t know and can’t vouch for that I want this law for.


TankVet t1_iwzblaq wrote

You make a good point.

As a person in the industry, I see declawing of cats to be a bad thing that happens infrequently while I see the results of puppy mills as a bad thing that happens all the time.

Just my perspective.


ilexberry t1_iwzjqdf wrote

Last year I took my kitten to an animal hospital that was highly reviewed and recommended for her healthy kitten check and to get her scheduled for the spay. During the review for the spay, they asked me if I wanted her declawed. I was stunned—I had never had a vet offer to declaw a cat before (and this vet was on the younger side, too!) I declined, and ended up taking my kitten elsewhere for her spay because I realized I couldn't trust that vet with her. :/


heili t1_ix3zmaz wrote

There are a lot of vets who will cut parts off of animals purely for the owner's cosmetic taste or desire for convenience.

I wish they were all like you, but sadly no.


Revolutionary-Swim28 t1_iwxhmmc wrote

Let’s write to our lawmakers, and if nothing changes, then, keep trying. I think it is phasing out anyway because I think my humane society in red neck central(NW PA) they don’t even declaw, I think they trim The nails and that’s it


dalex89 t1_iwx9hod wrote

Let them scratch!!!


L-E-B- t1_iwxlbfz wrote

I honestly thought it was illegal already in the whole state.


bushwhack227 t1_iwxwj9w wrote

I think it's one of those things that's technically legal, but good luck finding a vet who will do it


RevolutionaryEar1789 t1_iwyg071 wrote

Lots of vets do it... So your indoor cat doesn't ruin your furniture


Weary_Ad7119 t1_iwyuie8 wrote

I mean the alternative is these jackasses will abandon the cat. Most vets who do this are doing it for harm reduction purposes.


[deleted] t1_iwz77kb wrote



-Mr_Rogers_II t1_iwzmsxz wrote

Should’ve told your landlord you didn’t want to mutilate your cats. Then discussed an alternative to declawing. Like the claw covers that can go on and don’t bother the cat. They fall off over time and they are cheap to replace.


Puzzleheaded_Rub858 t1_iwyvadw wrote

I wish it was. I had a kitten neutered back in 2010 and they had accidentally marked him down to be declawed. They checked it with me and I was like take that off there. I want him neutered, not declawed.


cpr4life8 t1_iwxf6kk wrote

I feel like some places that will only allow cats if front declawed will no longer allow them at all. Meaning fewer cats rescued.

Both of my cats are rescues and I had to have them front declawed in order to take them in. I didn't want to but I figured better declawed and alive than put down at a shelter. They're both 15 now and still going strong!


gslavik t1_iwxhstr wrote

Who's condition was it that they had to be declawed?


cpr4life8 t1_iwxi0hk wrote

The owner of the apartment building.

Whoever downvoted apparently doesn't like 2 cats who have lived long lives (and continue to) because I rescued them. Fuck off.


frugal_masturbater t1_iwxw7xd wrote

Huh. You made me think differently about the issue of declawing, thanks!

I really need to change my stance to "you should not unless you have to", I was much less flexible on that before.


witqueen t1_iwxzi8l wrote

Declawing a cat is akin to cutting off your nails at the first knuckle of your finger. I have 5 cats, and have scratching posts for them, so they don't wreck my furniture. All rescues only one was declawed by the prior owner when we adopted from the SPCA.


frugal_masturbater t1_iwy16o3 wrote

Yes. I too have a cat, and always had rescues. I have my own house so I can afford making the choice to not declaw.

Some people give loving homes but their landlord absolutely demands front de-clawing. I mean, the poster above me describes the situation.

Now, you can take an absolute stance and say de-clawing must never be done. OK, roll with that, said poster I just referred to, who seems to be giving two cats an awesome life, he then should have no cats because well, he doesn't own his home and the rules don't comply with your demands.

So the cats may never be adopted and live in the shelter until they die or are destroyed. Well done.

My advice, get off the hard-and-fast rules. Life's never like that.

And don't.. do NOT tell me cats don't get destroyed because they're not adopted quickly enough. This is very easy to find online.


cpr4life8 t1_iwxx02m wrote

That's my position. Only if you have to. I wouldn't have done it if I didn't have to. I've had cats (in my family as a kid or on my own) pretty much all my life & these are the only 2 that have been declawed. Front only. I really didn't want to but I couldn't have adopted them otherwise. One of them is literally snoozing on my lap as I type this.


frugal_masturbater t1_iwxy6de wrote

You're a good cat owner if they snooze on your lap. They know where the good snoozes are to be had. Cheers!


cpr4life8 t1_iwy0l6s wrote

Thank you, I appreciate that. I pamper the shit out of these two. I read that pet fountains encourage them to drink more water so they've had one since day 1. Neither has ever had a kidney or UT issue. I have blink cameras in my home so I can check on them while I'm away. I got a WiFi pet treater so I can give them treats while I'm away. It has a camera and microphone built in to it. I login to it, press the mic, and ask "who wants treats?" When they both come running I press the button and shoot some treats out to them 😆 it also has a speaker button I can press so I can hear what's happening. My one guy, after the treats have been consumed, comes over to the pet treater and swipes the little slot with his paw similar to a kid checking the change slot on a vending machine to see if there's any change inside 😂

I installed a pet door in my upstairs basement door so their litter boxes can be downstairs. There's a camera pointed at that door. When I come home I'll turn it on and then hit the garage door opener button. They know the sound of the garage door opener means I'm home, so they'll come running from wherever they are in the house and fly through that pet door so they can greet me downstairs when I come inside. I never get tired of seeing that 😊


frugal_masturbater t1_iwy0vbo wrote

You put in a lot of effort, and your cats appreciate you. What else can you want for as a cat, or owner? Good on you!


heili t1_ix3zz24 wrote

It made me think the landlord is an asshole who is cruel to animals, not that cutting part of a cat's toes off is fine.


nbm13 t1_iwxg2zb wrote

License and registration meow


fireside_blather OP t1_iwxh6dl wrote

I'm sorry, but did you say 'meow'?


CaptainBrant t1_iwxnnk6 wrote

Now make it illegal to let your cats outside unsupervised and make feral cats illegal.


vonHindenburg t1_iwywhr5 wrote

Agreed. Cats are one of the most ecologically destructive things that humans carry with them around the planet. One of the leading reasons that our songbird populations are collapsing.


aboutsider t1_iwyuiqi wrote

How would you make feral cats illegal?


CaptainBrant t1_iwyy5ps wrote

Fine anyone who let's theirs outside unsupervised, fine anyone who feeds feral cats and isn't taking them in to shelters, make it legal for dispatching wild ones that are unfriendly and couldn't be adopted without attacking someone.


aboutsider t1_iwz2of5 wrote

Feral cats don't belong in shelters, and they shouldn't be killed just because you're afraid of and don't understand them. You're a cruel coward.


CaptainBrant t1_iwz55m8 wrote

That's the problem. They don't do in shelters, they are a disaster to wildlife, so we anthropomorsize them over all the other wildlife that are being harmed by them. The problem only gets worse because we consider it cruel to remove the cats. Getting them spayed and neutered hasn't solved the issue as they still kill wildlife and new feral cats constantly show up. It's not cruel, it's a real situation unfolding every day. We put blinders on under the guise of being "humane" but only to cats and not to the native wildlife suffering from our lack of action.


aboutsider t1_iwz9xn2 wrote

That's not what anthropomorphize means. You're literally saying "we attribute human characteristics to them over all other wildlife". That doesn't make sense in this context.

It hasn't solved the issue but killing off the feral population has? Tell me when that occurred. Also, are you saying that TNR hasn't improved the situation either? Do you have evidence of that?


CaptainBrant t1_iwzcx4n wrote

What hasn't solved the issue? I'm not sure what you're specifically referring to. I've mentioned quite a few things. We definitely do attribute human characteristics to cats and dogs over many other species.

And to answer your question, do a thought experiment. Let's say you have 50 feral cats that kill and eat 1000 wild animals a year. If you spay or neuter them and re-release them, you still have 50 cats eating 1000 wild animals a year. They aren't breeding and thus aren't increasing, but it's not DECREASING their negative impact. Plus, new cats are continuously introduced, so the overall number of wildlife losses keeps increasing.


aboutsider t1_ix32r6v wrote

None of that is actually proof. It's just more of you insisting you're right without evidence. And, unless you have evidence you just sound like a sociopath who wants an excuse to kill cats.


CaptainBrant t1_ix3bqmz wrote

Okay I'll stoop. You sound like a sociopath who loves watching wildlife become endangered and our environment suffer because an odd obsession with one species over all others.


aboutsider t1_ix3dk8j wrote

Insulting someone after failing to prove your claims just makes you look like a sore loser.


aboutsider t1_ix3n4t9 wrote

You realize that we're in Pennsylvania and not Australia, yeah? If you think the two situations are comparable then you need to explain yourself.

The second two are behind paywalls but the first says nothing about euthanasia and the second says that it's effective in certain situations but that TNR is effective in others. So which article is the basis of your claim that euthanasia is more effective than TNR for controlling feral cat populations? The one that doesn't mention it or the one that says it's only effective in situations where TNR isn't?


CaptainBrant t1_ix3rhoa wrote

So if the study isn't in Pennsylvania, it isn't valid? You're finding any way to discredit things. How can you study something in Pennsylvania when people like you would call such a study to dispatch feral cats sociopaths? For like the third time, you're treating animals unequally for some reason and just anthropomorphsizing cats as if they deserve more humane treatment than other species. It's like trying to study Marijuana, you can't really find out I'd it's harmful or beneficial for something, because of the legal limitations to study it because people for so many decades thought Marijuana was the most evil thing on Earth.

The second two studies basically show that TNR is useless when it comes to reducing harm cats cause to other species, claim by claim.

There is another study in the references of the third one about removing friendly cats to shelters and to euthanize the ones that will harm people if picked up, was effective in reducing the cat population and thus harm to other species.


aboutsider t1_ixyomai wrote

It's valid as a representation of Australia but considering that Australia is an island nation with an entirely different eco system, what part of that do you think is comparable or representative of a state within a country with a totally different eco system?

Actually, that's my point. Even if you could get someone to enact such a state measure, you're going to be hard pressed to find anyone who wants to be on the kitty genocide team. Not to mention, making it only a state law wouldn't stop the population either. It's pretty fucking sad that you find the fact that people are too empathetic to kill cats a bad thing.

No one treats all animals equally. Emotionally, fundamentally, or legally. If we were then we would also pick off humans that were destroying the ecosystem too. I don't see you advocating for that...

Again, that's not what anthropomorphize means.

If you're going to summarize the second two studies then you should probably use a quote from the abstract because that's not what they said, basically or otherwise. Furthermore, they don't prove your initial point that euthanasia is always the best approach. It's a bit difficult to have a conversation when you deliberately ignore nuance and context, particularly in your own "proof".


CaptainBrant t1_ixyq638 wrote

Fetal cats play the role of invasive predator species in every ecosystem they have ever plagued. Australia is just the first to try to do something about it as the loses of native species mounts due to cats. Continental sized Islands, or continents its the same niche. Some ecosystems still have native feline predators, but their populations are dwarfed, and even outcompetrd by feral cats. Where feral cats wreak the most havoc is where most other felines are absent.

It wouldn't be that tough. Contractors airway exist in every state that their daily job is dispatching nucense wildlife. Government agencies as well, USDA wildlife services. Moot point there. Again using emotional language.

Laws already regulate humans' pollution and destruction of the ecosystem, and need to increase and be stronger. The same should go to controlling feral cats which get a 100% free pass to cause harm due to that human bias.

Anthropmorphizing animals gives them human-like qualities. Dogs and cats top the list. You are biased towards cats over the wildlife losses you don't bat an eye at.

Both methods are not well backed by studies but TNR is not well supported in reducing ecological harm.


CaptainBrant t1_ix3gwjz wrote


aboutsider t1_ix3krrn wrote

That doesn't prove that killing them is effective. And you haven't proven that any solution I've suggested is 0% effective.

You're assuming that because I'm arguing with you about how to solve the problem that I don't think there is a problem. I just don't agree that the solution is killing cats. Either you're intentionally building a straw man or your emotions are interfering with your reading comprehension. Would you like to try again?


CaptainBrant t1_ix3heib wrote

In conclusion, I've identified the problem, given solutions, provided evidence, provided examples of this happening with controlling other species. And all you've done is called me a sociopath on numerous occasions and ignored everything I've provided you with and still don't even recognize this major ecological problem.

Please evaluate whatever problems you may have and try to be a better person who cares about animals as a whole. Look at the big picture. You can't be cruel to animals just because you like one species in particular. Humans caused this suffering to animals and we must better manage it.


aboutsider t1_ix3hrt5 wrote

You never provided evidence. Or a cogent argument. Or answers to a number of my questions. Don't bullshit me.

Dude, you're advocating for citizens to go out and shoot outside cats. Don't fucking lecture me about being cruel.


CaptainBrant t1_ix3i3ds wrote

Scroll back in the conversation? Someone else provided examples, too. When did I advocate for citizens to do this? Please answer one of my questions instead of you asking them and ignoring my answers.


aboutsider t1_ix3lnaw wrote

Scroll back in the conversation. You'll find lots of questions that I've asked about how the kitty genocide is supposed to proceed that were never answered.

Oh, were you not agreeing with the guy who said that people should be able to go out and kill ferals? My bad. You guys just sound so similar and I didn't see anyone tell him that his ideas were garbage so...


natureboi143 t1_iwz5l3d wrote

"You don't understand them"

Okay, what's your solution. Getting feral cats fixed is not a silver bullet to them harming the ecosystem. So what then? We kill animals that inconvenience us but are important to the ecosystem like native mice, bats, and raccoons that get in our houses, bears, heck even insects if you want to consider all animals equal. Why do we put mean feral cats on a pedestal?


aboutsider t1_iwz90y9 wrote

So, unless I have an easy solution that will fix everything immediately then it's worthless? And, do you have any proof that killing feral cats would be a silver bullet? How would that be carried out, by the way? Do you imagine this to be a governmental operation that goes around picking up and picking off ferals? Or, volunteer run? And, do you actually imagine that there are as many cowardly sociopathic cat killers to take out ferals as there are cat loving volunteers to do TNR who aren't afraid of a ten pound animal like you apparently are? And, what's the longevity of such a plan? Do you imagine that you'd just create a kitty genocide and never have to do it again? Let me ask you this, has anyone else ever tried killing ferals in order to reduce the population, and how well has that worked?

Not all animals are equal. Fucking duh.


natureboi143 t1_ix000n8 wrote

If you kill feral cats, less feral cats can call wildlife.

How would that be carried out? Many states have programs to reduce nucence wildlife. Like wild hog control programs. Pennsylvania had dog wardens that round up stray dogs. People are also required to get dogs licensed (but not cats, unfortunately). Contractors are also contracted to do that.

I'm not afraid of cats, using names and insults are not making your argument valid. TNR doesn't reduce the problem.

The longevity would be ongoing. You can't just ignore the problem. It requires proper management until people don't let their cats outside.

And yes, feral cats have been eradicated in some places. Specifically on islands where they were decimating wildlife populations. The same has been done with rats.

I hope that answers your qlquestions and soothes whatever anger you have to use all those insults.


susinpgh t1_iwzbmvc wrote

Cats are responsible for decimating bird populations. There are no natural controls on them when they are feral. The solution of keeping cats supervised, and fining people that feed them is actually a good one and may help in finding a way to balance the population. They should be brought into shelters in order to spay or neuter them.

It's like what happened when wolves were reintroduced in Colorado and other Western states.


aboutsider t1_ix33od5 wrote

He didn't suggest that they be supervised. He suggested they be killed on sight. You think it's a good idea to have citizens empowered to kill stray animals?

Y'know, in some areas of the country, there is a great need for the reduction of some of the cat's natural prey. For instance, our cities are great examples of rats running wild. There are programs now to introduce feral cats into these areas where their hunting talents are useful for getting rid of pests. I've also been to breweries and campsites that have working feral cats on hand to deal with pests. But, I guess that's not as fun as killing cats?


susinpgh t1_ix3fq8f wrote

Did I say anything about killing cats? (scrolls up, checks post). Nope, I didn't.

Domestic cats should be supervised and not permitted outside unless they are attended. Cats have really impacted bird populations, and I don't think that's a good thing at all. I understand what you are saying about cat programs, but it's not solving the bird problem, is it?


ThatCrossDresser t1_iwzc27x wrote

Very much this. Cats that are outside should be caught. If they are chipped they should be returned to their owner with a $100 fine per incident. If they aren't chipped then their temperament and health should determine if they should be sheltered for adoption or destroyed.

I am getting really tired of them eating all my birds and peeing on everything.


downsly46 t1_iwzbcd9 wrote

Does this include medical necessity? We have 2 polydactyl cats and one needed to be declawed because of the way the claw would grow.


JennItalia269 t1_ix15o99 wrote

It shouldn’t. It’s generally accepted that if there’s a medical need they’ll do it.


B-Eze t1_ix11phc wrote

Don't cut off the cats claws, lets chop up that fetus!


ACodeOfficial_PA t1_iwziotc wrote

I don't understand where the impulse to legislate comes from. I understand how declawing can be traumatic for a cat's psyche. Law enforcement is extremely expensive and less than effective.


GraggIeSimpson t1_iwzofw4 wrote

I doubt they’re going to set up stings or camp out in front of the VCA to catch vets who declaw. Probably just going to a channel where you can report the vet to their licensing board.


LakotaTbirds1970 t1_iwxnjb2 wrote

Was this pushed by furniture makers? Don't get mad at me. I had two fully clawed SPCA cats for 15+ years. Never again


msplace225 t1_iwzltia wrote

If you don’t like your furniture being scratched then perhaps cats aren’t for you


LakotaTbirds1970 t1_iwzoaz5 wrote

They were for 20 years. I know have a rescue dog. My first ever.

I knew down votes would be incoming!


w00dm4n t1_iwy682z wrote

Didn't Trump help make animal abuse a federal crime already?


31November t1_iwy6rd1 wrote

Animal abuse was illegal long before Donald, but the definition of what counts as abuse has gradually broadened.


w00dm4n t1_iwz3d35 wrote

it's a federal crime now.

lmao at animal abuse getting signed into law as a federal crime getting downvoted.


B-Eze t1_ix11f0a wrote

You mentioned cheeto man. Instant downvote


w00dm4n t1_ix278m8 wrote

shouldn't matter if something good came from that period of time.


B-Eze t1_ix27faq wrote

It does matter to extremist.


Dunn_or_what t1_iwxok47 wrote

What about gun control? De-gun some of the people on the planet first then worry about the fecking cat claws. This is nothing more then a stupid distraction law.


Imprettystrong t1_iwyqpyt wrote

“A stupid distraction law” please elaborate 😂 I get some things are more important than others but animal welfare still need laws to help with abuse.


aboutsider t1_iwyut23 wrote

Well, it worked on you. Instead of doing something important and useful, you're whining on the internet.


rhinoclaus t1_iwxfjri wrote

They have so many other problems to focus on. Why bother with this???


Wickersaltlamp t1_iwxu7ih wrote

Imagine thinking people can only solve one problem at a time.


Electr_O_Purist t1_iwxn1ld wrote

I’m so tired of this lazy red herring. You’re like one of these same slack jawed knuckle draggers who think we can’t accept any immigrants because some people are homeless. You realize all you’re doing is exposing your own ignorance here, right? You must see that.

Don’t worry. Everybody else does.


rhinoclaus t1_iwy53g3 wrote

Yes, definitely a knuckle dragger. This is a stupid, waste of time law. People will drive 10 minutes to a different location just outside of town to get it done. I’d much rather energy for enforcement goes to things that matter. I’m all for progress, but not for passing useless laws that won’t actually change anything.


aboutsider t1_iwyupij wrote

Maybe the legislature should try whining on the internet, like you. I'm sure that'll change something!


thesonofdarwin t1_iwzlxuy wrote

So your stance is that you can only care about and/or fix one thing at a time. Why are you so focused on this event then? Don't you have issues in your own life that you should be focusing on? One at a time, because of that limited capacity you seem to have. Don't waste it talking about this.


CltAltAcctDel t1_iwxn5ux wrote

People are capable of doing multiple things. You don’t have to solve ever large scale problem prior to solving small problems.

That said I’m agnostic on cat declawing.


Electr_O_Purist t1_iwxnkch wrote

That’s because you know fuck all about it.


CltAltAcctDel t1_iwz6soq wrote

Correct. I don’t have a cat and no nothing about the sides of the debate nor do I care to know. Thus my agnostic position


Candid_Notice_4431 t1_iwx7xcq wrote

I wish it was easier to declaw cats. Can you put a cat down for scraping to much?


thenurgler t1_iwxcn8s wrote

Buddy, if you have pets, give them up for adoption and never adopt again. You don't deserve them if you're seriously asking that.


Pyramid_Head182 t1_iwxc5jb wrote

Can you kill a living creature for doing normal stuff? No, I don’t think so


natureboi143 t1_iwz5s6l wrote

Actually, yes. People do it constantly with "nuisance" wildlife. It's completely legal.

Are people downvoting me because they are uncomfortable with the answer or they don't bieve me? I'm happy to provide you with the laws from your state to support my statement.


B-Eze t1_iwxdqim wrote



wpcodemonkey t1_iwxbfwo wrote

Huh? You wish it was easier to perform something extremely painful and inhumane?


JennItalia269 t1_iwxi378 wrote

Don’t get a cat then


MYOB3 t1_iwxjjcm wrote

Yes. Much better that the cat be on the street(sarc)


thesefloralbones t1_iwxjkzy wrote

You could get a scratching post, use humane alternatives like claw caps, put tinfoil/double sided tape on the surfaces they're scratching, train them not to use claws on people, or rehome them