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raven4747 t1_j4739ro wrote

this is fucked up. according to the article the dog was wearing a colored vest. what wild animal do you know that wears clothing? the hunter needs to do what they can to make it right with the family, it's not easy losing a pet in such a bloody way. I've seen pets shot before in this county and it seems like no one gives a fuck. big shame indeed.


Mago_Barcas t1_j47ezft wrote

Not only is it fucked up but it’s also very strange because legally this is considered destruction of property. US law views pets as objects with dollar values like a car or chair… which I know is also fucked up.

The thing is the pictures appears to be pure breed which is typically atleast 1000$$. If it has a documented lineage could easily be more then quadruple that.

If a hunter shot my tire they’d be expect to pay for replacement. If it was on purpose they could also be punished in a secondary fashion. Based on the article it looks like certain legal avenues were not considered… The only action here appears to be reaching out to the licensing authority to prevent them from hunting. The owner could still file a police report and pursue damages in small claims court. I’m not sure if the fact that the dog is adopted will impact how the court values the dog… As cases I’ve seen look at both replacement value(potential 1-5k) and last sale value(adoption… could be less then $100)


annoyed_w_the_world t1_j48vz3f wrote

If lurking on the legal advice subreddit has taught me anything, suing for the value of a dog isn't worth the court costs. From what I understand, dogs are valued similarly to cars in that their value goes down as they age. Dog was 2k as a puppy and lives 10 years on average? You'd be lucky to get $200 for an 8 year old dog


Minimum-Cheetah t1_j490l8q wrote

FYI lawyers don’t go on there. The advice is terrible


Krystian3 t1_j49ocu0 wrote

Hahaha. I can't imagine a lawyer coming home from work and wanting to give free legal advice on reddit. My wife doesn't even like doing that for friends because she says that to answer a question completely you almost always end up having to do a bunch of research on one thing or another.


Diarygirl t1_j4buidg wrote

I've learned from r/BestOfLegalAdvice that the advice givers are mostly cops.


Minimum-Cheetah t1_j4chhxf wrote

That is my impression of looking at that sub.


Diarygirl t1_j4ci56q wrote

I've seen advice like "If the police want to speak to you, they probably already have evidence against you and you should talk to them to clear everything up, easy peasy."


goplantagarden t1_j49ngb0 wrote

Good luck with that. I used to run a PA trail that posted warning signs to take precautions against being shot by hunters. The wording made it sound like it was my responsibility to dodge the bullets.


Ok-Structure6795 t1_j4tv3hj wrote

The owner's facebook posted uploaded a picture of what the dog was wearing, it was a collar and harness (not a vest) and they were both greenish


No_Marionberry4370 t1_j499g9t wrote

They didn't say what color. A dark green harness is not the same as a reflective orange vest.


Left_Philosophy5545 t1_j47ftmm wrote

Read it again ,colored collars, he prob couldn't see the collar


HeraldofCool t1_j47i6va wrote

You might need to read it again... "Both dogs were wearing colored harnesses and collars"


Phantom_spook t1_j480rln wrote

Yea, but what color was it? Was it bright orange or was it gray or dark green? A lot of info left out


HeraldofCool t1_j481ibo wrote

That's a good point. Coyotes tend to wear darker more nature color collars and harnesses, while most dogs usually wear brighter ones. Easy mistake, especially since the guy was supposed to be hunting deer. (Maybe we shouldn't just shoot at the shit we can't clearly see or aren't there to hunt in the first place...)


jballs2213 t1_j47h253 wrote

He made a shitty gut shot on a dog he thought was a coyote. Sounds to me like he was quick to pull the trigger and excited for a Facebook post.


raven4747 t1_j47qxfp wrote

the article states the dogs were wearing more than just a collar. even so, hunters are taught from day one not to take a shot unless you can see your target fully and clearly. don't you remember the turkey hunting story from your hunter safety certification course?


awuweiday t1_j46z3te wrote

"Lau had recommendations for both hunters and dog owners. Dogs and their owners should wear fluorescent orange in areas where hunters are present, Lau said."

I mean... Sure.

How about hunters have the patience and control to fully assess their target and positively identify it before shooting it? It's really not a huge ask.

Seriously. The fuck? What are you? Cops?


Hanniballecter6 t1_j479ub4 wrote

Just been confirmed the hunter was an ATF agent and shot it out of habit


zorionek0 t1_j47hejt wrote

The CIA, FBI, and LAPD have a contest to see who’s the best. The president releases a rabbit into the woods and asks them each to catch it.

The CIA goes in. They place animal informants throughout the forest. They question all plant and mineral witnesses. After three months of extensive investigations they conclude that rabbits do not exist.

The FBI goes in. After two weeks with no leads they burn the forest, killing everything in it, including the rabbit, and they make no apologies. The rabbit had it coming.

The LAPD goes in. They come out two hours later with a badly beaten bear. The bear is screaming: "Okay! Okay! I'm a rabbit! I'm a rabbit!"


Mijbr090490 t1_j47ifd5 wrote

I hunted for 15 years. If I couldn't tell for certain what I was aiming at or what was beyond the target, I wasn't shooting. Whether the person or pet was wearing orange at all didn't matter. If you can't tell the two apart, then it's time to give up hunting. The woods are full of a bunch of trigger happy rednecks anymore, especially around rifle season. Part of the reason I gave it up. I love the outdoors, but I try to stay out of the woods during rifle season.


msginbtween t1_j488kel wrote

One of the reasons I picked up archery hunting. Being on state game lands during rifle season is an absolute shit show. But with some of these high powered crossbows archery season is starting starting to head in the same direction.


artificialavocado t1_j48qrkh wrote

This. I’m not a gun guy but did grow up around them and went hunting when I was a kid. Things like knowing the target, not aiming a gun at anything you don’t intend to kill, treating every firearm as if it was loaded, etc. are some of the rules I thought were universal. Guess not anymore. State and federal are too afraid to even talk about the safety rules anymore because they know right wingers will cry “mah freedums.”


Phantom_spook t1_j4avwxt wrote

What gun safety rule did he break? He knew his target a “coyote” he wanted to shoot the “coyote” he broke no safety rules. Just because he didn’t see a collar or harness on the dog that wasn’t on a leash or near the owner doesn’t mean he did anything illegal or unsafe. Sad outcome for everyone involved.


jralll234 t1_j4axb5i wrote

He failed to correctly identify his target, apparently. Or he meant to kill a dog that was “scaring deer.”


Mijbr090490 t1_j4azkcs wrote

That's the thing. Did he just see a puff of grey fur and pull the trigger? He didnt properly identify his target.


artificialavocado t1_j4ba5jy wrote

Look I’m not saying let’s tar and feather the guy but I think there should be a fine or something. I think the seasons run concurrently now but in the past guys were fined all the time for shooting doe they thought was a buck and vice versa. I swear the entitlement of some gun owners is infuriating. They want all the rights and privileges but none of the responsibility.


Fonzee327 t1_j47h8ja wrote

The article states that the dog was wearing a brightly colored harness, and was easily 2x the size of local the coyote breeds that the hunter mistakenly identified the dog as. An ATF agent can’t distinguish between a large domestic dog and a coyote? Coyotes are so disheveled looking and have such a distinct way of skulking around, it’s hard to see how this happened.

The hunters did stick around and help once the dog was shot at least. I hope both sides learned something from this. I’d be absolutely devastated if my dog got shot in front of me, I can’t imagine.


artificialavocado t1_j48r2o1 wrote

If it wasn’t for the fact the shooter ran to help my guess would have been they knew it was a dog and shot it to make a point about scaring deer away.


12darrenk t1_j48y1ek wrote

Hunters need to be able to positively identify their target before shooting, he added. “It’s a fundamental rule of hunting,” Lau said.

If you're going to quote someone, don't try to cut it up to make it say something that they didn't. The Game Commission is in no way saying that this is good thing. But the incident didn't violate any game laws. So there isn't anything for the Game Commission to do. He was asked what can be done to prevent this like this in the future. And he answered that for the general public and for hunters. There were a lot of mistakes made by multiple people that everyone can learn from.


[deleted] t1_j48zumm wrote

I’m pretty sure the author of the article leans anti hunting. Even though he writes frequently about it, he seems less than knowledgeable about the subject and I believe he has misquoted people before who were members of this sub. You’ll find him here on occasion mooching for information.


Murphyboiii t1_j4b150r wrote

That dog looked like a yote. Especially if he was elevated in a tree and the dog would have looked smaller. Why would any same person have a dog that looks like a coyote not have fluorescent orange or and being walked off the leash when people are still muzzleloader/flintlock hunting? Any hunter will shoot a coyote they are menaces


Fluke216kd1059 t1_j46maoh wrote

This person should not be hunting this is ridiculous


discogeek t1_j46rq3y wrote

On the one hand, I'm always sympathetic toward accidents or mistakes. I don't think people should be punished just for messing up.

That being said, we sure to give a hell of a lot of leeway and benefits to hunters and gun owners that the rest of us aren't welcome to claim on our own. The hunter caused some damage to an individual, basic logic and compassion would suggest he/she should somehow compensate the family - not necessarily punish the hunter for an accident (if it was one, and the article doesn't give a reason to suggest otherwise) - but to make them as whole as possible again.

Two sets of rules, one for them and another less-fair one for the rest of us.


[deleted] t1_j46see5 wrote

The game commission can’t legally charge them. That’s what the author of the article failed to mention.

No violations of the wildlife code occurred. That isn’t to say that laws weren’t broken, or that charges couldn’t come from another agency, but the PGC is only able to enforce laws from within the wildlife code.

For example, until trespassing was added to the wildlife code, if I had found someone hunting in my property without permission, I had to call the state police. If that person had shot and animal while trespassing, I had to call the state police and the game commission.


cotwnoob t1_j47rsqx wrote

What are some examples of leeway that gun owners and hunters receive?

I am in both camps and would like to see where you’re coming from for perspective, and possibly some explanations for you.


PsychologicalAerie53 t1_j49wdl1 wrote

If a person just messes up and hits my car they should be punished. Monetarily. If they shoot my dog I’ll ensure they’re punished if the courts won’t administer justice.


discogeek t1_j4ggdfm wrote

So vengeful. Someone has a total and complete accident and you want their dick in a jar on your shelf.

Compensation is one thing, punishment is another.


emeraldjalapeno t1_j477q04 wrote

I'm from Arizona, I've seen coyotes my entire life. I have a hard time believing someone could mix up a husky with a coyote. The size difference is remarkable


[deleted] t1_j479ypr wrote

There is a substantial size difference between western coyotes, and eastern coyotes.

Western coyotes may only way 20-25 lbs. while an eastern coyote of 55 lbs isn’t unheard of.

They also have a much heavier and longer coat than that of their western counterparts.

In my experience, the eastern coyotes are much smarter and more wary of people. I was amazed at how many coyotes I saw when I was spending time in the west, and how little they were concerned with people.


emeraldjalapeno t1_j47b13e wrote

Ha! Your take on westerns coyotes is correct! I remember one walking along side me as I went to a bus stop in high school! However, even a 60 lb coyote and an 85 lb husky is a big difference


KindKill267 t1_j48of3n wrote

Depends on the distance. At 100 yards it's very hard to tell size difference in animals especially 20lbs. If they are cutting through the woods it's even harder. For deer I use their face and snout size, bears you can use the ears, not sure about coyotes.


[deleted] t1_j47bain wrote

I’m not saying that isn’t. However, it’s not as substantial as a western coyote versus a husky.


twohoundtown t1_j495zjp wrote

Esp on the east coast, our coyotes are no where near as big and muscular as yours


Grand_Confidence_470 t1_j47d7rn wrote

damn they didnt even get an apology


LOERMaster t1_j482goo wrote

It’s Berks county: the guy who shot the dog probably told them it was their fault for having the dog out in the first place.


SoxeeKnitter t1_j49a4ay wrote

I’m sure that’s exactly what he says. Source: I’m in Berks County. Ugh.


LOERMaster t1_j49copj wrote

You have my sympathies. Ex-Berks county resident here.


Murphyboiii t1_j4b0ota wrote

Shouldn’t walk let your dog run off the lease if it resembles a yote that much in an area open to the public for hunting. Recipe for disaster


r_GenericNameHere t1_j4rn7ru wrote

or... people stop hunting coyotes and considering them vermin. because... just maybe... they are trying to fill a ecologic gap cause by not having wolfs in the area and if we let them be nature will take place. at first the population with explode because of the vast amount of prey animals but then it will drop with lack of food. eventually evening out and get back to the natural ups and downs of things.


Murphyboiii t1_j4sv4w8 wrote

Fawn killers need to to pal


r_GenericNameHere t1_j5mqigy wrote

could you add context to "Fawn killers need to to pal". to clarify I'm not anti hunting, and hunting coyotes is fine, but them being treated a varmints/invasive is crazy. people shouldn't be going out and killing 40,50,60 in a day.


[deleted] t1_j4a69mf wrote



middlingachiever t1_j4at5sz wrote

Can you share where this happened? I couldn’t read the article.

I think I figured out this was Lake Ontelaunee. I saw a pic of the dog’s harness, and it was green. I’ve hiked this kind of combo hiking/hunting/horse trail in Berks before, and I’ve been very cognizant of the hunting season. My dog would’ve been wearing an orange vest on this day. Looks like coyote hunting is legal even on Sundays. Orange vest is common sense to avoid tragedy.


RhydianMarai t1_j4avmgt wrote

Just checked - Fleetwood area but I'm not sure which township. Apparently the trail actually covers two townships, so they started in one and he was shot in another.


middlingachiever t1_j4awzvj wrote

As a human, I wouldn’t go walking there on a deer season day without an orange hat, vest, etc. It’s a real risk. I feel terrible for the loss, but easily prevented.


RhydianMarai t1_j4axdao wrote

In his defense, he had no idea about extended doe season. He stated had he known he wouldn't have gone out, he actually stopped with the hunters because of being confused as to why they were out(they were towards the tail end of the walk when this happened from my understanding).

I do agree in general though, grew up in the woods and even though it was private property I was in orange during hunting season.


Murphyboiii t1_j4b0uc2 wrote

I have 30 acres of private and im afraid to walk on my own property during or after rifle without orange on. Need to know the hunting seasons if you are going to walk your dogs on public land where people can hunt. Its everyones land.


Zenith2017 t1_j46n97n wrote

Hope the owner cleans him out for everything he's worth. Stupid fucker. This is why gap toothed redneck morons shouldn't be allowed to have guns, ever


Hillbl3 t1_j46rwzy wrote

Dogs are treated as property and the most you're going to get is the cost of replacement. The unfortunate reality is the most the hunter is on the hook for is probably a couple hundred dollars, which is often not worth the cost to pursue.


exotube t1_j47tiya wrote

For a state of PA's size, it's staggering how many heavily used recreational areas also permit hunting.


12darrenk t1_j482rf5 wrote

It's also staggering how many hunting areas are used for recreational (non hunting) activities. With how some people are, it's kind of surprising that there aren't more issues. State game lands are bought and maintained by money from hunting only. But they get used for lots of different things. Oftentimes non hunters have no clue that hunting is happening. It's amazing with how many people hike on game lands in brown and black clothing that people don't get shot at by irresponsible hunters. If you are on game lands check the hunting seasons and wear orange or other bright colored clothing.


[deleted] t1_j486qu9 wrote

It’s a legal requirement for non hunters to wear orange on gamelands between specific dates.


12darrenk t1_j48a8l9 wrote

But most don't know that. It's really not public knowledge. It's a very short statement in the hunting and trapping digest. And if they aren't hunters, how would they see that? It should be on the signs at game lands, but does anyone actually read the rules? And if they do read it, are they going to leave because they don't have orange with them? I doubt it. Plus that rule is only for Nov 15th to Dec 15th. The are lots of firearms seasons outside of those dates. I know the idea for a user fee for game lands got rejected, but there needs to be some way to communicate what should be expected of people on game lands who are non hunters. Maybe a big qr code at trail heads with reminders to wear orange, or a message that there may be people hunting with guns on that particular day? Something needs changed because people aren't getting any smarter and it's just a matter of time before bad things happen.


[deleted] t1_j48adet wrote

Every game land parking lot I’ve ever been so has that information posted.


twohoundtown t1_j496h14 wrote

I did not know this, my bf and his friend go mushroom hunting on game lands, they park on the side of the road.


[deleted] t1_j496vte wrote

It’s important to know and understand the rules and regulations of public land before you use it. The responsibility to be informed falls on the user.

State Game Lands, State forests and state parks all have separate regulations regarding foraging on the lands.


Illustrious_Air_1438 t1_j48reqn wrote

Between what dates should one wear orange on state game lands? I've always been confused about this since it seems that there is at least some hunting season year round.


12darrenk t1_j48wew8 wrote

I would say at least for when deer season is open. Most of the season is archery, but during this time there are various other seasons open that are firearms seasons. That's when you are the most likely to encounter hunters. It usually starts on the 1st Saturday of October, but sometimes it is the last Saturday of September depending how the calendar falls. It runs through the middle of January, usually ending on MLK Jr day. Some areas like Berks, Chester, and down to Philly, as well as Allegheny county, go from mid September to the end of January. The other time would be from mid April through May. That is spring turkey season. Turkey hunting is done mostly by calling, so if you hear a turkey, there is a decent chance that it is a hunter, or there is a hunter nearby. Staying away from that area is a good idea if you can.

In my opinion it is never a bad thing to be seen, regardless of if hunting is going on. And most of the time, other than when required, what you wear doesn't have to be orange. Bright and non-natural colors are great. You really want to avoid brown, black, and other dark or earthy shades. And if you can avoid it, don't walk right into an area that you know people are hunting. As seen in the article, it can end badly.


Special-Ingenuity615 t1_j48wf2r wrote

As a hunter I'm on the fence with that idea. The biggest is bear season and deer season, more specifically the gun seasons. Technically coyote season is open all year round I don't think it's exactly right for non-hunters to be having to wear orange, or put their dog in an orange vest in the middle of July because in the one-off chance there may be a coyote hunter hunting the same track of property. I personally stay off state game lands as much as I can during deer and bear season solely because I cannot stand the attitudes of some other hunters


NerdyRedneck45 t1_j46wkwi wrote

“open to public hunting and were in full compliance with Pa game law.”

“Was on the marked trail”

Both of these things can’t be true


illbeinthewoods t1_j479rm0 wrote

Why not? Marked trails often go through areas that are open for hunting. For example, the Donut Hole Trail goes through the Sproul state forest. The state forest is open to hunting and one could legally hunt while standing on the trail.


NerdyRedneck45 t1_j47c3fy wrote

I could swear there was a zone around marked trails but nothing I’m finding is backing that up. Might be wrong.


MeltFaceNotButter t1_j47slyj wrote

I hunt on marked trails all the time in Berks county. But I'm also super aware that there are often dogs, horses, and humans walking all over the place. Always need to triple check what you're shooting is in fact what you think it is, and if it's legal to hunt.


NerdyRedneck45 t1_j49stfm wrote

That’s a good call. I stay way out of the gamelands during popular seasons and wear orange the rest of the year. Our town has a nice history of shooting relatives every Turkey season.


FerDeLancer t1_j47ao1y wrote

Plain and simple dishonorable and negligent hunter who brought shame on the pastime. U have to be certain of your shot and everything in between and beyond your line of sight. This was irresponsible at best.


Uuuccc t1_j48t9ly wrote

I don’t hear this enough from hunters yet it’s one of the first things you learn in the training to get licensed.


Phantom_spook t1_j4awe6y wrote

How was he negligent? He made a good and safe shot. He shot a dog that he thought was a coyote. The dog wasn’t on a leash next to the owner and who knows what color or how thick the collar/harness it had on. Now if the dog had a blaze orange vest on the hunter would be in the wrong but that’s not what happened.


FerDeLancer t1_j4ckcqc wrote

It’s called identifying the target. Thats why its negligence. It was harnessed and collared. If you cant see that much you can’t see enough to take that shot


pussywillow_rose t1_j47qi7q wrote

Gut shots on any animal, conceived pest or not are a major dickhead move. Not to mention shooting something wearing an obvious collar or harness. What a moron.


napoleon85 t1_j47w1g1 wrote

Sounds like this person shouldn't own a gun, let alone carry a loaded one in public until they clearly understand the four rules of firearm safety. They clearly broke rule 4, know your target and what's behind it. You can't just shoot shit because you see movement, you have to positively identify that it's an in-season animal that you can take a clean shot to take humanely.

This guy is a piece of shit and gives a bad name to both hunters and gun owners who don't make the news every day because we know better.


sunshinecat6669 t1_j489hrz wrote

“Travis Lau, a spokesperson for the Game Commission, said the hunters Heller encountered were in an area “open to public hunting and were in full compliance with Pa game law.” When asked how this could be prevented, Lau had recommendations for both hunters and dog owners. Dogs and their owners should wear fluorescent orange in areas where hunters are present, Lau said.

Hunters need to be able to positively identify their target before shooting, he added.”

It appears that the hunter in this case didn’t positively identify their target before shooting….


MCRNRearAdmiral t1_j48kfr9 wrote

Pennsylvania is the only state that I have lived in (that includes Texas and multiple southern states) where I was warned about hiking due to a danger from hunters both in and out of season.

Nowhere else that I have lived has anyone ever even thought- let alone verbalized- that hunters present a danger to humans in the woods, especially in non-hunting-authorized areas. Something to think about.


Diarygirl t1_j4btwur wrote

The signs at the state border should say "Welcome to Pennsylvania. Hope you're wearing orange!"


MCRNRearAdmiral t1_j4d8n79 wrote

Yeah, I kept repeating myself back to people:

“I’m on a hiking trail.”

“I’m not on state hunting grounds.”

“It’s not hunting season.”

And location after location after location people have been like:

“Don’t take any small kids.”

“Go in a huge group!”

And I’m like: “Did you hear what I said above?”

And eventually it dawned on me that I was the one who didn’t get it.


shayne_62 t1_j47yl7z wrote

Why isn’t the scumbag named in the article?


AjayiMVP t1_j47ekmz wrote

“There are no posted leash laws in the area, according to Jennifer Heller, and Hunter was hit while on the marked trail.”

Can anyone confirm this? I have not been on a public trail in PA that did not have posted leash laws. And if you are that person with that “special dog” that you believe doesn’t need a leash on public trails then fuck you.


middlingachiever t1_j493olc wrote

State Game lands in Berks?

I’m wondering exactly where this incident happened.


AjayiMVP t1_j4aylqq wrote

Would a sane person bring their family dog on a walk unleashed during hunting season on state game lands? I feel bad for their loss but they are just fucking stupid. Now they are off crying to a lawyer trying to deflect their irresponsible behavior. I really hope it gets thrown the fuck out of court and the dog owners have to pay legal fees.


middlingachiever t1_j4b0ulo wrote

I’m with you. It was foolish to take the dog on these trails without as much as a $20 orange vest. It’s just plain risky.


ganjababe71 t1_j47qu39 wrote

Unacceptable!!!! Complete bullshit! That's a family member. Would that be the decision if it was a human? Complete bullshit!!!


AtBat3 t1_j47ip46 wrote

You shoot my dog and you’re done for. I’m not relying on the legal system for justice.


AHockeyFish t1_j49dlze wrote

As a hunter, a HUGE part of your responsibility is to properly identify different species of animals. This is a massive failure and the hunter should be charged.

A Husky looks nothing like a coyote when you really know what you are doing.

I’m tired of “hunters” like this giving the rest of us that try to ethically harvest game in a legal and ethical way a bad name.


infamous-fate t1_j49cpa1 wrote

deserves to have his hunting rights taken away, if you can’t decipher between a dog w a vest on and a coyote your not intellectually competent or safe enough to hunt.


lilhotdog t1_j49spex wrote

In one of the Hanover PA Facebook groups (HAWG) there was a big post from a member saying that one of the owners of Hanover Architectural Products shot their dog after ‘mistaking’ it for a coyote, no sort of apology. Cops didn’t want to get into it and charge the shooter (for obvious political/financial reasons no doubt), no idea if they ever made it right with the owner of the dog.


FasterThanYou302 t1_j49tqr0 wrote

This shit is stupid. I dunno about PA, but everywhere I’ve ever hunted (or shot period) you identify your target and what’s beyond it before you fire, correct? Well if this dog had bright color on it and was on a marked walking trail with people how did you not see that unless you literally just said “oh a Coyote”, and then pulled the trigger immediately without a second thought or second look. Some people shouldn’t be allowed to hunt.


4ortyTw0 t1_j47a77d wrote

… just astounding the people that live among us


jballs2213 t1_j47hjtb wrote

This post is full of absolute shit hunters lol.


eshane60 t1_j47qe3t wrote

This is BS he should be held accountable in some way, a family lost their best friend pet. If he cannot tell the difference then he should not be hunting. Prayers to the family. 🙏💝


kuweiyox t1_j48hx3z wrote

I hate the justice system


74orangebeetle t1_j491tqt wrote

Whatever source you tried to link to is paywalled.


--Cr1imsoN-- t1_j4881gr wrote

Bucks county just can't stop looking like a shithole....


Steelplate7 t1_j48ddld wrote

I need to get off of political subreddits. My first mental response was “JFC, what are the wing nuts accusing this guy of now?”


PsychologicalAerie53 t1_j49w40b wrote

If someone shot my dog the hunter would become the hunted.


sx70forlifexx t1_j47p5fy wrote

Of course not Guns are fine and hunters are sacred 🙄


SH01-DD t1_j471dyv wrote

I have a dog, I empathize with the owners, I really do.


You're in an area where you know people are hunting. With a dog that looks like that. Not on a leash. No orange vest on it. Not even a bell, maybe?


[deleted] t1_j476gq2 wrote



annoyed_w_the_world t1_j485l38 wrote

Coyote and huskies are roughly the same height. Add in a thick winter coat and I could see how someone might mistake one for the other if the coloration is the same


SH01-DD t1_j47943l wrote

Yep, still do. But they don't trot out a live coyote for size comparisons.

What did that harness look like at 75+ yards in shaded woods?

Edit: my point there is that "blaze orange" is a specific color for a reason. I have a hat I ordered online that was supposed to be for hunting, but clearly was made the wrong shade. It does not stand out at a distance the same way the correct color does.


[deleted] t1_j47fl38 wrote



raven4747 t1_j47u31j wrote

yep. still remember my training course and the story of the dude who got shot in the bushes by the dumbass turkey hunter who saw a silhouette, heard movement, and decided to shoot.


Brilliant-Jacket-550 t1_j4755wp wrote

It was wearing a harness! Not to mention, if you’re going to be shooting at something, you should be damn sure you know what it is.


napoleon85 t1_j47wj87 wrote

>if you’re going to be shooting at something, you should be damn sure you know what it is

This is the most overlooked point ITT.


heili t1_j486dt5 wrote

I had my dog on a trail, leashed, wearing a harness and orange vest and had an complete dipshit tell me he thought she was a bear.

If you're going to hunt, you need to be certain of what you're shooting at, which unfortunately it seems like there are far too many morons who can't tell what a dog is.


isaiajk98 t1_j46rcud wrote

Wasn't the Hunter a "She "?


Grashopha t1_j47spv3 wrote

You’re thinking of the woman who shot a husky and then posed with it. This is a different incident and different circumstances.


isaiajk98 t1_j47wx7s wrote

More than one incident! Wow! No, I don't know. Thanks 👍🏼


heili t1_j486oud wrote

She shot, skinned and posed for Facebook with a six month old husky puppy. That is not someone who should be hunting.


isaiajk98 t1_j4954v0 wrote

Lol, I absolutely agree. It must have been disheartening for the owner of the pup....😭


SBRH33 t1_j470akg wrote

As the article states, coyotes can be taken at any time during the year.

This dog at a distance can easily be mistaken for a coyote.

If this dog really was wearing its blaze harness then the hunter made a terrible judgement call.

I find it troublesome that the dog owners continued their activity on the property after encountering the hunters. Personally Id have packed up shop with the dogs right then and there. Interfering with someones hunt (with dogs at that) is not only dangerous, as they found out, but can be a PGC violation in itself.

Its a shame they lost their pet. But ya gotta have some common sense too during hunting season.


emeraldjalapeno t1_j477wj6 wrote

The size difference between a coyote and a husky are remarkable. Perhaps the hunter needs more training identifying coyotes


annoyed_w_the_world t1_j484wv0 wrote

Everyone talks about the weight difference between a husky and a coyote, but not the height difference. An eastern coyote is on average 22-25 inches at the shoulder and while typically are only 20-45 lb in weight, the heaviest recorded was 75 lb. A male husky is on average 21-24 inches tall at the shoulder and this one weighed 88 lb.

The main difference in size appears to be stockiness, and an animal's winter coat can disguise how stock it is/isn't.

So you have an animal that's in the same height range and has similar coloration to coyote, the only difference is it's heavier, which can be hard to notice at 50 - 100 yards.

If it wasn't for the harness, I'd say there was no fault on the hunter's part here. Even with the harness, I'd say I wanted to see it first before making a determination.

Edit: I would say the fact that the hunter gut shot the dog could indicate he didn't have the clearest view, in which case I'd agree he shouldn't have taken the shot


SBRH33 t1_j47ttza wrote

You could tell the difference at a 100 yards? 50 yards? Through brush and wood?

Idk about that.

Life lessons were learned all around that day.


napoleon85 t1_j47w8az wrote

If you can't tell the difference, you shouldn't take shots at it.


SBRH33 t1_j48qb8b wrote

The two animals do look similar and I can easily see how they could be mistaken, especially from a distance. These hunters were lawfully at hunt. These folks showed up, with dogs off leash. This is a 6 in half, one dozen in the other scenario. Stay out of areas where folks are actively hunting. Conversely, confirm your shot before you pull the trigger. In this case, in that area, coyotes are present. The hunter believed he had a coyote.

I completely fault the hunter if the dog was indeed wearing a blaze collar, but the owners claim it was wearing a "colored" collar. That could be any color, which isn't blaze.

When you are outdoors during hunting season, especially in public lands where active hunting takes place. Wear blaze orange, and if you have a dog put a blaze collar or vest on it as well.


psc1919 t1_j47c9t7 wrote

Ya it’s not the guy who shot the dog that is at fault.


wagsman t1_j47ppw9 wrote

The asshole in me thinks the Hellers should go to that hunter's house and shoot his dog. If the cops ask, say"gosh I thought that dog that is twice the size of a normal coyote, and wearing a colored vest was a coyote."

Its fucking ignorant, and that guy shouldnt have guns if he cant tell the difference between a pet and a coyote.


Ajmagee t1_j46pf1a wrote

Should lose his hunters license. Who the fuck thinks there's coyotes in Berks County. Live in the area my whole life never heard of a coyotes being around. Also need to have stronger laws protecting pets and animals from abuse and killing.


[deleted] t1_j46r0ku wrote

There are coyotes in Berks County. There are coyotes in every county in the state.


eviljelloman t1_j46ysmc wrote

>Who the fuck thinks there's coyotes in Berks County.

Anybody who is aware of actual facts? As multiple people have pointed out, you're completely wrong here. They were missing from the state for a long time, but coyotes are all over the place anymore.


lager81 t1_j46zty6 wrote

Check out the book "Coyote America" by Dan Flores.

They are literally everywhere and basically indestructible as a species. Killing them causes females to increase litter size to repopulate the numbers.

I hunt and spend a shit ton of time outdoors and I've only ever seen a glimpse of one. They are shifty little bastards. You'll hear them all the damn time but good luck shooting one. They are generally nocturnal so coyote hunters normally try thermal scopes which were approved in 2020 in PA


[deleted] t1_j471fub wrote

A lowering of population of any species, allows for more available resources, thus higher birth recruitment rates. I hear this a lot when people are discussing coyotes like it’s some type of superpower, but it’s true for most every other species.

For example, an area with a healthy population of deer, will have available browse all year, and you’re most likely see most does giving birth to twin fawns. In an area with a lot of deer, and little available browse, there is a lot of competition for that food, does wont be as healthy and will likely have only one or no fawns. This allows the population to drop back down a touch and let food resources catch up.

Rabbits and hares are a great example of cyclical populations, where your going to have several years of increasing populations, followed by a sudden population crash. In turn, you can watch lynx populations follow a similar curve, but a year or two after the snowshoe hares.


SendAstronomy t1_j48893u wrote

I don't think I've ever seen a coyote in PA. But I sure as heck hear them every time I go camping or are in a park after dark for the past few years. They make one heck of a racket at night at Cherry Springs.


lager81 t1_j48davv wrote

Gray ghosts!! I'm not far from cherry springs and when I take my dog out at night you can hear them very clearly it is spooky. Saw some tracks in our driveway too last winter when we had snow 🥲 RIP winter


SendAstronomy t1_j48moi8 wrote

They are all over the rural parts of Allegheny County too. Except there's always a dog within earshot, which automatically sets off the entire pack of coyotes.


LibraOnTheCusp t1_j46weil wrote

There are coyotes everywhere, I live in Limerick and have seen them here with my own eyes. My husband hunts on the gameland in Linfield along the river and this week he came across a dead coyote on the riverbank. Looks like it fell down a ravine because it had a head injury.


Swi11ah t1_j47sj2j wrote

Yeah someone i work with just mentioned seeing coyotes in their backyard. They live in Eagleville


ROTLA t1_j470e3j wrote

There’s coyotes in Philly.


claudedusk8 t1_j479un5 wrote

I've seen coyotes from Walnut Port to Cape May N.J. just say'in.