Dear PLCB, it's now cost-effectiove for me to drive out of state to buy alcohol. Why aren't you passing your volume buying discounts to Pennsylvanians?

Submitted by pm_your_masterpiece t3_10ehwqo in Pennsylvania

Are you just funneling money to the PSP?

ETA: PA is the largest purchaser of alcohol in the US. With that kind of bulk buying power there is absolutely no reason, other than straight up graft, that any other state or store should have better prices. People from other states should want to drive here and buy liquor to fill our coffers. While they're here, other parts of the economy would benefit. We're getting screwed every which way in this state.

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MortimerDongle t1_j4qypo9 wrote

>Are you just funneling money to the PSP?

Answer is always yes

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BogWunder t1_j4s20xj wrote

Ask them about legal weed too. NJ getting my money when it could stay in PA!!!

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mbz321 t1_j4yljth wrote

I'd be okay if the State Stores sold weed.

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randompaaccount t1_j4t0exf wrote

It’s $75 to get a card.

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wallacehacks t1_j4t45of wrote

The medical market in PA is so bad. Recreational markets are always better.

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TylerDaKid t1_j4vhcvq wrote

Not to mention that holding a medical cannabis card technically federally prohibits you from purchasing or possessing a firearm. Cannabis is still federally illegal, so when you're filling out your background check and information sheet and they ask if you use drugs and you say no because it's legal in your state, your technically lying in the federal government's eyes. A lot of people have argued this with me, to which I say literally Google it lol. It's the top Google result.

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wallacehacks t1_j4vk206 wrote

This is a great point thank you. I work in tech and bet a medical card could affect basic clearances/insurance too.

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TylerDaKid t1_j4vndqo wrote

Yeah if you have a clearance at the federal level, it more than likely would affect it. Or you're at least be questioned about it I would assume. Actually I'm almost certain of it because I have a couple friends that have low level government clearances and they abstain from cannabis use entirely. Money's too good lol

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40Breath t1_j4t5i0r wrote

That's crazy talk. I've been to Vegas and dc, and PAs medical options and pricing are very comparable to both.

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wallacehacks t1_j4t61o8 wrote

Maybe edibles and concentrates and stuff but not flower and not in decent amounts. I have a friend who buys in DC and drives it back to NC with the prices she gets.

Plus you can legally grow a few plants in recreational states. Medical is cool but recreational should be a given by now.

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40Breath t1_j4t6iup wrote

I experienced both, and disagree. Now dc is strictly medical, but people can grow there and gift, so maybe your friend has a connect.

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wallacehacks t1_j4t704q wrote

I haven't kept in touch so things may have changed. Also, you can disagree if you want but that doesn't change the fact that I could lose my house if I grow a plant and there is nowhere to legally pick up an ounce at a decent price.

The PA market suits some but it really depends on how you partake.

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40Breath t1_j4vm4a6 wrote

And that's what's really wrong. Should be able to grow your own likes vegetables.

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Snowdeo720 t1_j4v72xu wrote

That’s state dependent from my experience, the medical markets in Colorado and California are both very solid.

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wallacehacks t1_j4v8pou wrote

Those states both have recreational markets to compete with.

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Snowdeo720 t1_j4v95ku wrote

They both had medical markets prior to going recreationally legal (just as PA does currently).

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CltAltAcctDel t1_j4s5mya wrote

State Police Liquor Enforcement got $30 million from PLCB. That solely funds the enforcement of Liquor Laws and doesn’t fund daily PSP operations. $185 million gets sent to the General Fund.

Pg 12 of pdf. https://www.lcb.pa.gov/About-Us/News-and-Reports/Documents/PLCB%20Fiscal%20Year%20Annual%20Report_2021_22_Web.pdf

State stores have zero competition and no pressure to reduce prices.

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RamHands t1_j4sjd3z wrote

Zero competition, in this state.

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CltAltAcctDel t1_j4snqs5 wrote

Technically, it’s illegal to bring liquor in from another state. Will you get caught. Highly unlikely, but it’s on the books. Government hates competition

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ThatWasTheJawn t1_j4so56n wrote

It’s not. It’s illegal to purchase for resale in Pa.

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CltAltAcctDel t1_j4sqs33 wrote

Unless it’s been repealed recently, it’s still illegal

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/04/about-that-cross-state-booze-run-bootlegging-is-still-a-crime-in-pennsylvania-even-during-a-pandemic.html

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Flimsy-Lie-1471 t1_j4unpy7 wrote

IIRC it is still illegal, but there is no penalty. BTW - if you are anywhere near SC PA, Mountain Liquors in Emmitsburg is about 1/2 mile across the state line.

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ThatWasTheJawn t1_j4sucv4 wrote

I guess you’re technically right. It’s “on the books” but it seems to have been basically decriminalized.

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ThinkySushi t1_j4thm2p wrote

We used to live just across the Delaware boarder west of Philadelphia. We would go over into Delaware for shopping and food etc and there was always this PA cop car that would sit right outside the boarder liquor store in Delaware. If your car had pa plates and he saw you leave the liquor store parking lot he would follow you into PA and pull you over.

Never happened to us but I saw it happen to another driver. I was told you just get a fine.

Also was told if you pitched your receipt before you left they couldn't prove you bought the stuff in Delaware, so if you did that you were fine.

Now this was like 14 years ago so maybe it has changed since then like you said

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TenaciousLilMonkey t1_j57oz6s wrote

I’ve heard this story told repeatedly, but it’s always said to happen to someone they know. Never a first person account. I think it’s just a myth/legend. Maybe many many years ago though.

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ThinkySushi t1_j57u7md wrote

Fair enough,

In our case I did see it actually happened to a car. Saw them leave out of the liquor store parking lot and the cop follow them and we crossed the border in site. We saw the cops and saw the lights go on and he pulled the guy over.

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cathie2284 t1_j4squz1 wrote

Did something change? Admittedly it was 20+ years ago but a coworker went over the bridge, shopped in Jersey and went right back over the bridge. Useful to mention the guy was from France and was hosting a christening party for his baby son. Lots of wine. Some beer. He was pulled over. Potential fine was going to be $25 per bottle of wine and $10 per beer. Got a lawyer and got off. Which is why if I ever purchase in DE or NJ I make sure to stop and eat or do some other shopping and don't just go right back over the bridge after getting the booze.

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ThatWasTheJawn t1_j4sskm3 wrote

Yes, it was amended in 2015 I believe.

Edit: here ya go

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ThinkySushi t1_j4tiid1 wrote

The article doesn't say if the bill made it past the governor's veto: "But even this minor victory could be short-lived. The bill still needs Senate approval and might have to survive Gov. Tom Wolf's veto pen. Neither is assured."

Anyone know if it passes? It was a conservative bill and wolf was a democrat so he may have vetoed.

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MoonlitCrapper t1_j4tfsiw wrote

Of course they have competition. Another state. Your biggest city is right next to another state. I never get weed or liquor from PA lol. Fuck that shit.

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BluCurry8 t1_j4t2s18 wrote

And they tax alcohol on top of pure profit!!!!!

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Tacodude5 t1_j4u2iyh wrote

Don't forget the tax for that flood from almost 100 years ago

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tempestveil t1_j4um104 wrote

their starting pay for employees was 12.50$ in 2021.... pathetic. Absolish the state store monopoly.

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j4wbr3w wrote

If they ever privatize, the businesses that replace the state stores will have no pressure to reduce prices, either. Why charge you less than you've already shown you'll pay?

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CltAltAcctDel t1_j4wfbha wrote

Because it there will be multiple places to buy from. The state won’t hands its monopoly over to a single company. It will sell licenses to multiple liquor stores and you’ll have options

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j4wiljo wrote

The companies will just pricefix and collude just like companies collude on everything else, and the state will do nothing about it.
 

Washington privatized their liquor system and prices went up.
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/dec/13/5-years-after-privatization-washington-liquor-sale/

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CltAltAcctDel t1_j4wp29x wrote

It sounds like state fees and not collusion are leading to higher prices. If it’s still cheaper in Idaho than there’s probably something else at play that makes Idaho cheaper than Washington

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j4wp9at wrote

Yes, the state fees in Washington are making it more expensive to buy booze from the businesses than it was to buy liquor from the state itself. That's definitely it, and not just businesses colluding and taking profits.

 
Businesses will never charge you less for a product than you've already shown a willingness to pay, and you're a fool if you think privatization will bring about cheaper liquor.

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CltAltAcctDel t1_j4wt4to wrote

>When comparing liquor prices between Washington and California across all store types, the latter’s prices were 24.1% lower for 750 mL containers and 29.6% lower for 1.75 L. Washington has the highest spirit tax rate of any U.S. state and tax differences likely explain the price differences between the two states. Researchers chose California as the comparative state as it allows liquor sales in similar store types and has the same large licensed chain stores such as BevMo, Costco, and Safeway.

https://arg.org/news/liquor_prices_continue_to_grow/

>https://www.seattletimes.com/business/in-aftermath-of-liquor-privatization-spirits-everywhere-not-cheap/

>Data posted by the Tax Foundation, a Washington, D.C.-based think tank, indicates that Washington residents pay about $35.22 per gallon in spirits taxes, about $8.52 more than before privatization, even though Washington already was the state that taxed liquor the most.

It costs the business $8.52 more to sell the product than it cost the state to sell the same product. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that prices would be higher.

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j4wul6w wrote

California's prices are irrelevant to whether or not Washington state's prices went up after the state system was privatized.
 
No business is going to charge you less than you've already proven you'll pay.
 
Privatization has been a massive failure everywhere it's been tried, but this time it'll work for real.

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ktappe t1_j4rbg5b wrote

Selection too. If I want a really fine rum I can only get that at Total Wine; none of the PLCB rums are high end.

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Fractured_Symmetry t1_j4sgs5g wrote

I'm lucky because I live close to the border, but the state of Pennsylvania gets basically none of my money. I go to Ohio to buy my vapes, my weed, my groceries, my booze, and my gas. None of the places I buy from are better they are just that much cheaper that its better for me to spend an extra hour getting all my necessities if it means saving $100 a month.

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ThatWasTheJawn t1_j4soaqx wrote

Same being in Philly so close to NJ. Except PA’s Med cannabis is waaaaaaaaay better than NJ.

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Mijbr090490 t1_j4sl2gh wrote

Taxes on alcohol, tobacco etc wouldnt bother me if they went to useful things. They aren't great for a functioning society, but you can't make them go away. Might as well tax the fuck out of them.

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tempestveil t1_j4um8i6 wrote

yeah, but then what are we gonna do with excess tax dollars if we don't have politicians that actually use them and use them the right way to benefit the Pennsylvanias who paid in?

Pennsylvania had a $4 billion state tax surplus last year and politicians just sit on their hands with it they don't spend it they don't have any plans to spend it... It's fucking infuriating.

I wish somebody would let us fucking put our hats out and collect off the top of every service and good they use and buy.

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Golden5StarMan t1_j4sj1n5 wrote

I’m sure this isn’t for everyone but I make my own cider. You can get apples pretty cheap in PA and it’s really easy to make amazing cider at home.

I pay about $4 for a gallon and do 100+ gallons a year.

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tacobellbandit t1_j4sjqxg wrote

I’m glad I live close to WV and work there most of the time. I can grab my gas, weed, and now booze before I head home. If I didn’t have vested interests in this state I would move out. The taxes are just getting ridiculous and there’s very little to show for it

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Odd_Shirt_3556 t1_j4r1ecr wrote

So they can cover their 9% raise this year.

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Odd_Shirt_3556 t1_j4sjog8 wrote

To clarify.. The legislature got a 9% cost of living raise. The LCB employees would never get that. Only elected royalty gets those types of raises.

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sprcpr t1_j4sdtjr wrote

Honestly, this isn't a problem for me. The stores are about the only retail store that pays a living wage.

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Poconosmax t1_j4r1r21 wrote

No they do that by sending under age kids in to buy booze for they can fine them....

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Diarrhea_delivery t1_j4sx2i4 wrote

I'm a hop, skip away from the Jersey border and it's fantastic. Prices on most things are reasonable and I always find a lot of cool things that Pennsylvania doesn't stock.

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truethoughtsgbg t1_j4tf4ls wrote

Distillery with product in PLCB stores said they were sent notice they were raising all prices 4% so they would have to increase their price too due to contract with them. Then PLCB says its due to producers raising prices?? Something doesn't sound right.

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LilDutchy t1_j4s1w5n wrote

Not to mention that there’s a lot of stuff they just don’t get. I like Mr. Black coffee liquor and regularly make runs out of state to get it… allegedly.

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SolutionsExistInPast t1_j4sensg wrote

Does the PLCB read or answer this type of question here?

If no, then what did the PLCB say when you did reach out to them with your question?

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bad185 t1_j4srxq3 wrote

Not going to lie, I was PISSED today when I stopped for wine and my bottle of choice was $2 more.

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avo_cado t1_j4syq28 wrote

I think the state store is better than a bunch of run down low rent liquor stores

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pm_your_masterpiece OP t1_j4t1mrx wrote

Sure, but the fact that PA gets the best price and passes zero of that to the residents is a travesty

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IrresponsibleScience t1_j4tc98j wrote

Ad a transplant from Chicago, Pennsylvania liquor laws and all are too strange for me. I’m Chicago I can walk into any grocery store and buy any liquor I want. Rum, wine, vodka, beer, at the same time as my groceries.

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forgotmycheese t1_j4w15ts wrote

Ehh, the cost doesn’t bother me. I think it’s better that the state profit off of alcohol sales than private parties. I do wish less money went to cops and more to schools and SEPTA. Besides, while selection and price might be better in cities, it’ll probably go down in rural areas. Plus PLCB jobs are unionized. If PA went private then you’d see lots of decent unionized jobs be lost.

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pm_your_masterpiece OP t1_j4w2ku7 wrote

I'm not asking them to go private... I want them to make their prices competitive with the states around us so that it ISN'T cost beneficial for me to buy out of state. Even if you lived 3 hours from Delaware it is STILL cost beneficial between gas and savings on liquor and wine to go to Delaware. While you're there you'll likely also visit a restaurant or do other kinds of shopping. The ripple effects to their economy is huge. WE should be gaining those benefits HERE. Our buying power should be drawing in residents from other states to spend their money HERE. It's not rocket science.

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forgotmycheese t1_j4wma6x wrote

If you think it’s a good use of anyone’s time to drive 6 hours to save $8 a handle on liquor (using Tito’s for comparison) then fine. But they’re gonna use 12 gallons of gas assuming 25 mpg and 50 mph average and the average price of gas in DE is about $3.26 a gallon so that’s $39 in gas alone. Maybe it makes sense to go to DE for liquor if if they’re buying 5 handles and value their time at $0/hour.

I think you’re seriously overestimating the number of people who drive out of state specifically to get lower prices on liquor. Maybe that’s what you do but most people would probably pay an extra $8 than drive an hour for the one handle they buy every other month at most.

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pm_your_masterpiece OP t1_j4xdjki wrote

You save over $100/case on wine in DE, even more on liquor. It's well worth it.

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mainelinerzzzzz t1_j4ruf0b wrote

The State doesn’t care, they’re playing with other peoples money.

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notallwonderarelost t1_j4tizgm wrote

Anyone know if NJ or Delaware have Trader Joe’s that sell Liquor. Moved from a state where they sold it and it was a great cost/benefit to buy it.

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Dude-in-the-backrow t1_j4tjtos wrote

Prices just went up again. Wife's wine went from $13.99 to $15.59..... NY or NJ here we come, only a 20 minute drive.

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Away_Emergency_9690 t1_j4u67s3 wrote

Don't the gas and tolls essentially add up to the money you're saving by driving to another state?

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j4wc3ca wrote

Yeah, traveling to spite buy doesn't save these people money any more than driving to West Virginia to fill their tank does for people in the western part of the state. It's just performative BS.

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Away_Emergency_9690 t1_j5rd0od wrote

I figure I'm paying extra for the convenience. It's a short walk and even shorter drive to the state liquor store.

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KFCConspiracy t1_j51ansy wrote

The liquor control board is designed intentionally to make buying liquor inconvenient in PA.

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Jive_Sloth t1_j4t8yi2 wrote

On what metric is PA the highest purchaser of alcohol? I would assume it would be a state with a higher population, not that we're not populated. NY or CA or something.

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pm_your_masterpiece OP t1_j4t9b0f wrote

PA is one of the largest single purchasers, not that PA as a whole buys the most.

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Hib3rnian t1_j4rd7k4 wrote

You argue that it's more cost-effective to drive out of state to buy alcohol; increased state tax on gas and higher PA turnpike rates beg to differ. 😕

So is it the gas and TP rates forcing people to buy alcohol in state or is it alcohol rates forcing people to drive/pay tolls to buy alcohol out of state? Sounds like we get the shaft either way. That's some shrewd taxation game play there.

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pm_your_masterpiece OP t1_j4rdn5f wrote

jokes on you, I buy my gas when I go out of state to buy liquor. I also avoid tolls. It's a triple play for potsy.

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CrzyDave t1_j4rfp7y wrote

Yea gas is a lot cheaper in Delaware where Total Wine is located. I think about $1/gallon less.

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Hib3rnian t1_j4rgb5j wrote

Sometimes you have to outplay the players, well done 👍

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[deleted] t1_j4rng58 wrote

>You argue that it's more cost-effective to drive out of state to buy alcohol; increased state tax on gas and higher PA turnpike rates beg to differ.

There are a lot of us that live close to a border and don't have to deal with that 🙄

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[deleted] t1_j4rqkdr wrote

[deleted]

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BeachBrad t1_j4s36zi wrote

Ah, that must mean you never eat or drink anything with caffeine in it then?

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[deleted] t1_j4s3qe4 wrote

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Phillysean23 t1_j4shmyj wrote

Yes, however, caffeine alters the state of mind. I've seen people post “1-year drug-free” photos while smoking and drinking coffee. I often look at it and say “well technically just the bad ones”

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BeachBrad t1_j4sjb05 wrote

Must be a bland life completely avoiding anything with chocolate in it, or any drinks with caffeine.

Btw, I don't believe you, Nor do I care. Only thing i care about is the pricks that somehow think there better than anyone else for stuff like this. Heaven forbid they try to feel better with a drink in the shit show of a world we have today.

You better take it the full way though, dont want you to be a hypocrite. Throw out that ibuprofin, turn down that heart drug recommendation your dr gave you.

Or you know, Stop being a dick to people?

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[deleted] t1_j4rny5q wrote

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nalgene_wilder t1_j4somo5 wrote

Literally every state taxes alcohol sales. The devil needs a new advocate

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