IrrumaboMalum t1_j4z3dgj wrote
Reply to comment by Atrocious_1 in In first act as governor, Josh Shapiro opens Pa. jobs to people without college degrees by OhmyMary
Wait...you think private party companies, the student loan providers, wanted the government to create government-funded competition with near infinite reserves of cash for them to compete against?
Really?
Completely wrong. That isn't how business works.
Private company student loan providers have "skin in the game" - they have limited cash reserves with which to make these loans, so they tend to be highly selective in who they lend to to ensure the people they lend to have the highest chance of repaying the loans. This was not a high profit business model prior to the advent of government-backed student loans, and schools also had lower tuition costs to attract as many students as possible.
Fast forward to the government offering government-back student loans. With a near infinite pool of money and the ability to garnish wages and tax returns, the government was able to lend money to anyone who applied. There were few to no standards, since the government was not overly worried about repayment since they had additional tools unavailable to private lenders in the form of the IRS.
Schools saw this new pool of students with effectively unlimited funding and saw a gravy train. Tuitions began to increase. Schools that used to do their own lending and financing stopped - the government would now handle that and if the student defaulted on the loan the school didn't have to worry about pursuing the money.
The government is 100% directly responsible for the cost of college tuition today. Now they are trying to find an "answer" to the problem they created. The answer is simple - end all government-subsidized loan programs. Grants are fine. Scholarships are fine. But the loans need to end as soon as possible. Once that bottomless well of money dries up, schools will have no choice but to lower tuitions, begin working with private lenders again and perhaps even reopen their own financial departments for lending and financing.
Atrocious_1 t1_j50k2zc wrote
Buddy Reagan stripped funding from education in the 80s.
If the fed was directly funding education you'd be paying $200 a semester like your boomer parents did.
IrrumaboMalum t1_j538hs8 wrote
Department of Education isn't the department that handles student loan guarantees.
I've broken it down as simply as I can without using single syllable words, and you still refuse to accept reality and insist the government is somehow not responsible for this entire mess.
tellmeaboutyourcat t1_j4zz2vl wrote
Thank you for passing this all out. I'd heard the headline argument before and it made sense, but it was useful seeing your explanation.
Govt backed loans were intended to make college accessible for everyone, so I would suggest that while you're right, those loans should go away, there still needs to be an option for those who can't afford private loans of their own. Enter: free community college for everyone. You can get your associates or a trade certification for free and then decide if going for a private loan is worth continuing from there.
My personal philosophy is that higher education is valuable for everyone - not just as a workforce credential, but as an experience and an opportunity to learn more and spend more time figuring out where you want to go with your future. It also provides an opportunity for established folks to go back to school for a career change, so it provides flexibility in the workforce. I'm 15 years out of college and I would love to be able to take classes part time to get new skills to change careers, but I can't afford daycare and mortgage AND tuition. Having free community college options would be priceless for working people to expand their earning potential!
IrrumaboMalum t1_j539iys wrote
Free community college is a good start. You can do most of your basic classes there, and then transfer to a "traditional" college and get your BA or BS degree while only paying two years of tuition.
Which should be significantly lower once the government gravy train ends.
We also need to eliminate the cultural concept that "higher education" only begins with a 4-year degree. I got a 2-year degree and I'm doing nuclear engineering work after being in the field for over 10 years now. We should encourage trade programs and associates degrees as acceptable higher education as well.
In fact in some fields a 2-year degree is more valuable than a 4-year degree. I started out as a technician before working my way into being an engineer. Companies need technicians to maintain equipment, manufacture equipment, test equipment and repair equipment. Companies don't want to pay a college graduate with a BS in EE or ME to be a technician - they want to pay them to be an engineer. So schools that offer a 2-year vocational training program that offers an associates degree are highly valuable, but are few and far between.
tellmeaboutyourcat t1_j53noku wrote
Exactly, I agree with everything you said here. I know many community colleges have trades programs built in (I took basic car repair courses at my local CC) as well as a variety of certificates available. There are a ton of ways to continue education beyond high school that doesn't require a private 4 year institution. Making more of those options free will make better jobs accessible to more people and will help a laundry list of economic issues.
Imagine what would happen if homeless vets could take trade courses for free while working the system to get back on their feet. Imagine if a single mom on disability could learn basic coding or get a certification in medical billing (an increasingly remote field).
I'm getting emotional, sorry. But education should be freely available and easily accessible for all. If we could make that investment we would see such an explosion in our economy.
IrrumaboMalum t1_j53qitx wrote
Right - people should have a choice instead of being led to believe that you will never amount to anything unless you have at least a 4 year degree.
Union apprentice programs. Trade schools. Two year schools. Four year schools. Masters and doctorate programs. All are valid forms of higher education, but society has a whole stigmatizes some of them.
Master carpenters can easily make six figures a year, but a college graduate in a cubicle with a BA degree will make fun of him because he isn't "educated." Society has programmed us almost since birth to seek that four year degree to be successful.
I got a two year degree. I started as a technician and now I'm a reactor engineer and will likely me moving on to a position with a utility at a plant in the next few years. But my "worth" in the eyes of society is low because I only have an associates degree and not a bachelors degree, nevermind that my work is far more beneficial to society than many four year degree graduates.
Whatever you want to do, the first two years should be free. Community college or trade school or a tech school. Union apprenticeships are often compensated. And, I believe, masters and doctorates can also be paid for by the school as an exchange of labor (you work for the program while advancing your studies, providing value to the school in exchange for the education).
Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments