Submitted by abraves528 t3_z47fll in RhodeIsland
I have an old oil heating system. The boiler is probably 5-10 years outside normal life expectancy. For the last few years I have to prime the boiler at least 3x a year due to air in the lines.
Between the failing system and the absurd price of oil I’m considering converting to propane.
Does anyone have any experience with this? Advantages/disadvantages? Cost to convert?
I am a plumbing and heating contractor in RI and I have done hundreds of oil to gas conversions, including at my own house.
Every situation is different and needs to be evaluated individually to determine if a conversion is best for you, and what the actual cost will be. It really requires a proper evaluation of the home, a heat loss calculation and a thorough understanding of the pros and cons by the homeowner. Then you can evaluate all the different options available to you. Gas does have less btu’s (heating capacity) than an equivalent amount of oil, but it is cleaner, prices are less volatile, the systems are generally more efficient, and you can use it for cooking, grilling and standby generators as well. Add to that the space freed up by getting rid of that nasty old oil tank.
Here are a few questions to help you along the way.
First question is Boiler (hot water baseboard or radiators) or Furnace? (forced hot air/AC)
Answering this will guide the rest of the decision making process.
What are you doing for AC? Do you have ducted AC already and adding a gas furnace for heat is simple, or are you using window units or mini splits? Can you add ducting easily? (unfinished basement and open attic space) or is that a difficult and costly proposition? There are obvious advantages to furnaces (HVAC) like central air, very high efficiency furnaces and easy maintenance. Some of the cons are ducting is bulky, space consuming, and expensive to install if not previously existing. Forced hot air also tends to be very dry and a generally less comfortable heat source.
Boilers are split into 2 categories, traditional cast iron and modern modulating and condensing. Gas fired cast iron boilers are the tried and true traditional option. They are very simple, extremely reliable, require minimal maintenance, and have a fairly long service life. The trade off is reduced efficiency, generally in the 80%-90% range. There are also no rebates on these. The other type are the modern modulating and condensing systems that are very popular. These are small, wall hung units that are extremely efficient, quiet and clean. They run in the 95%-98% efficiency range and can adjust the burn rate to match the heating demand for additional savings. They are often eligible for sizable rebates depending on the model. The downside is in longevity, and maintenance. They will require annual cleaning and due to their inherently technical nature, will not last nearly as long as the old cast iron boys. Additionally upfront installation cost will be higher.
The last wrinkle here is domestic hot water, the stuff that comes out of your showers and sinks. You have several options here that should be considered when doing a boiler swap/upgrade. You can get a combination boiler/water heater if you go the modulating/condensing route, or you can get an indirect fired w/h that uses the boiler as the heat source regardless of boiler type. Or you can go with traditional stand alone water heaters, either gas fired, electric, or electric hybrid. All having their own pros and cons.
It’s a shitload of information to take in, but it’s important to make the right choice as you will be paying for it for a loooong time.
I’m happy to help you with specific questions here or via dm if you like but I’m not taking on any new work at least till next year so I probably can’t help you beyond guidance.
Wow, comprehensive reply and an offer for assistance! I have no gold but if I did I’d give you some…
Don’t convert to propane. It’s cheaper per gallon but you will use more of it making it almost a wash.
Convert to mini splits and solar
Was going to say this. We’re in the middle of doing this now (currently have oil). There are a ton on incentives available and more coming next year. 30% federal tax credit for solar, around $1,250 per ton for mini split systems. There are also enhanced incentives for those who are low-income.
Can do a free home energy audit first and see what they recommend too- https://energy.ri.gov/energy-efficiency/residents
Worst advice ever
Have to agree. Mini splits can rack up serious electric bills, and with electricity rates on the rise it can be problematic. Solar sounds cool, but buy-back rates are not always what they used to be, and not every house is capable of carrying panels.
I would bet on electricity being the cheaper option in the long run. It's only expensive this winter because natural gas is expensive this winter. A big chunk of our electricity will come from offshore wind soon and RevWind signed a PPA locked at 7.8 cent/kWh! That's not to mentions all the other good reasons to switch!
This will be very specific anecdotal evidence, but two separate friends that live in separate New England states went the mini split route solely, and their electricity bills went from around 300-400 per month to 1500 per month. And that was before the rate hikes. So it’s a per basis option for sure. Just trying to share some info regarding options.
I appreciate you sharing your experience, but something is very wrong if a heat pump costs more than 3x the alternatives. Here is a cost comparison using prices for this winter in MA.
I converted from oil to natural gas this year. Here's the process:
Contact RI Energy and tell them you'd like to convert to natural gas and need a list of recommended installers.
Contact at least two of the recommended installers and get written estimates. We had Petro and Gas Doctor come down; chose to go with Petro
Fill out one sheet of paperwork with your installer that goes to RI Energy that outlines the size of your new boiler, where the proposed location of the meter goes, and what the cost is.
Wait for approval.
When approved, RI Energy will run the line to your house for no charge since you're going to be their customer (assuming your street has a gas main). You don't have to be home when they put in the line. They do this April to Sept. because of the ground freezing up in the winter. We had to wait and nurse a leaky boiler and tank through last winter because of this.
Once the line is in, work with your installer as to when the full install will be done. Your installer will coordinate with one company to remove your old boiler, another company to remove your tank, and a plumber who will hook everything up. This could take two days.
When everything is ready to go (typically the second day), a building inspector will come down to check out the work, then RI Energy will install the meter, then you're ready to go!
I'm really happy we finally switched. Total cost was around $10k before rebates. Since we no longer had a tankless water heater, we also had an indirect water heater installed. I paid cash ($2300) for the boiler to get a $715 rebate, then financed the rest in a 0% interest 18-mo loan.
Hope this helps!
I have 3 100 gallons propane tanks (bought the house with the propane system) we also use it for cooking, and we only fill the tanks during the winter (2-3 times) right now it comes to about $628 to refill all 3 tanks. If you’re only gonna use it for heating and have more tolerance for the cold (wife and kids don’t want to go below 68) you could probably do better than me with the efficiency.
Are the 100lb tanks fixed in place? Or can you disconnect one or two to move them to refill. Cause 628 seems quite high. I work at a place that refills propane tanks and for a 100lb for us I think it's just under 100 a tank? Maybe 80 bucks? I would have to double check. We just would need you to bring the tank to us.
Yeah I don’t think we can disconnect the tanks, they are also owned by the propane provider. Our fixed rate is 2.99 per gallon, it was cheaper before Covid, but that’s our rate now
Ah that makes sense, sucks that the rate is so high, I know my work buys our propane for like half that.
Yeah, that sucks. Maybe we’ll transfer to natural gas in a few years.
Who do you use for $2.99 a gallon? I have Superior and I’m paying $3.60 a gallon. I also have 300 gallons.
Consumers Propane, but I locked that rate earlier this year.
I heard they are good but I’m hesitant to switch. I’ve had no problems with superior in the four years I’ve used them besides them being on the pricy side this year. Thanks for the info! Can’t believe 3 years ago I was paying $1.99/gallon.
No issues with Consumers on my end either, but yeah I understand, it’s a pain to change services.
I paid same about a month ago for 260 gallons. Propane Plus.
I would recommend looking into a natural gas conversion. RI Energy will install the line for free up to your house. You'll have to get a plumber for the remainder of the installation. Wasn't too expensive when we converted.
>>RI Energy will install the line for free up to your house.
No they wont, it’s a few grand. They stopped the free service line for conversion a while ago.
EDIT: going by the replies, apparently RI Energy reinstated free services for customers converting from oil to gas. As I said in another reply National Grid stopped that practice many years ago.
My rents just had it done for free
Under the new ownership?
Grid stopped doing it years ago for one offs and the only time you can get it for free is if they are doing main/service replacement on the street.
If you are separated from the main, that’s even more money because they have to extend the main to in front of the house
Yes two weeks ago it’s worth calling
My line was run for free in April by RI Energy.
Propane is not the cheaper alternative in the long run. Propane prices fluctuate as well, less BTUs than oil. Heat pump and solar panels.
First, look into rebates from RI on a new system. Second I think I know a few of your causes. My guess is its not air in your system its gelling. Air would be a constant issue and you would spot a leak most likely. The tank in a cold spot? There is a treatment for that. Also if maintained a boiler lasts a really long time if its a good brand and cast. A friend just gave up using his residential 1894 Steam system that was originally coal because his parents died. On cost, I think the Propane would be cheaper with a condensing boiler but make sure you try to get the rebates.
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Get a wood stove. Free yourself
Meh…. Woods stoves are a good backup and alternative. For homes that can use them, they’re definitely worth having. But as a main source, no thanks. You’re either hustling all year to get woods stacked, covered and seasoned yourself or you’re at the whim, price wise, of whoever is selling cords. Yes it’s relatively inexpensive but my labor costs something too…
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get solar and start switching to electrical heat space heaters if you have a good roof
At this point I would not recommend switching from one fossil fuel to another. Consider a heat pump instead. There are incentives coming next year.
MajorDrGhastly t1_ixpuk0o wrote
i know a guy who knows everything you could possibly need to know about propane and propane accessories.