Submitted by uwuwotsdps42069 t3_10fennp in RhodeIsland
Just got hit with a $450 electric bill. I feel like we don’t even use very much electricity. The transmission costs are obscene and there’s two fees that mean the same thing (transmission charge, distribution charge).
My electric bill is more than my car payment. Solar panels can’t get switched on fast enough, and guess who’s dragging their feet to get it cleared?
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
Yeah, and the rules for how the sizing is determined.. is rife for abuse.
The law allows you to install a solar array with which is 100% replacement production for average of last 3 years (or total of last year if you haven't live there for 3 years) -
but there is a "correction" factor multipled against the DC size of the array to calcualte it out.
So my "replacement' number was 10,500 kWh for the year.
but I was only allowed to put in a 8.7 kWh DC system - the "correction" factor is rougly 19% ... but my array has never made more than 8,800 kWH in a year.
E.g. I could have put a bigger system - but the "correction" limited what i could put up.
Solar is good, and believe it or Not - RI has some of the most generous Solar incentives in the country - but it could be a bit better still.
It made me so mad when i got mine..the size of my system is based on...previous usage and not what i plan to do? Fuck the energy companies
To be fair - if you have a quote for new heat pump or electric car - you can get them to increase size - based on predicted usage - and then you have to document with them that you got the new heatpump, new electric appliance or new electric car within one year - but ... I didn't get a heat pump until a couple years later.
Solar was installed in 2018 - and i got a heat pump in 2020.
We pushed back and added panels to our quoted system for this reason. Solpower was fine doing this since we were willing to pay for it. Granted this was seven years ago and maybe the state rules have changed but ask your installer?
Oh i got mine years ago now. It was just such a red flag that the energy company controls what i want to install
We were never told there was any limit - there’s what they recommend in terms of size. But it wasn’t framed in terms of a state rule and clearly we were able to go past that so it’s interesting your installer framed it that way.
THIS is why lobbying sucks....
Yeah that was frustrating to hear. Solar based on historical usage, what a joke. I should be able to cover my entire roof in panels and excess goes back into the grid, but then RIE al would have to spend money to make it so the grid can handle two-way traffic.
Somehow they can clear cut big areas of forest to put in solar panels, but limit the size of residential units? Corruption as usual… we get stuck paying the bill.
For sure. Allowing private individuals to voluntarily spend their own money to install and maintain solar on their own property that gets sent to the grid should be a no-brainer for greening our grid.
Instead, we're stuck thinking about the grid as only moving power from central generation to consumers, when it really should be moving to a store-and-release model...capture grid-scale power during the day, then release it at night. Eventually, the grid should end up netting out to close to 0 power produced.
Goes to show just how crooked thing in this state are.
This is a misnomer. They don’t lose money by having you switch to solar. Their cost to obtain additional energy is greater than the loss to you producing your own.
The amount they’ll permit is 90% of projected usage. The 10% justifies service to the property. It’s really a pretty sensible arrangement when one thinks about it.
Except for when your planned array size is for 90% of projected usage, based on the 3 year avg monthly Kwh from Natl. Grid and they get to tell the solar company that the array is still too big and to do it again.
Also this ignores the "justifies service to the property". I have already paid to have the electrical lines installed to the home. They aren't going to profit by coming over and ripping the line down to the house. I have to pay monthly connection fees etc to them no matter what. These are offset by credits for energy I now generate with the array but they are still profiting from the fees. Forcing it to 10% is only pure profit for them. There is no reason for it and they are the only entity that gets to decide that.
> I feel like we don’t even use very much electricity.
That's all relative, right? My most recent bill was $124 for 416kWh, so in relation to me, you're using quite a bit.
But I have NG heat, hot water, stove, and dryer, so those don't hit the electric bill.
Total elec + NG last bill was $392, so if you have electric heat and stuff, then we're in the same ballpark overall.
It's sweet that you have solar coming online (hopefully) soon though!
Propane + forced air heat, propane stove.
Well water
Barely keep any lights on, heat never goes above 66. Don’t use a ton of water. Gone 10+ hours a day. TV runs for maybe a couple hours.
Where does the power go? /shrug
Have you asked the electric company to come look at your meter? Maybe there is something wrong which is causing it to seem like you're using more than you are.
Yeah that’s what I’m trying to figure out how to do, without calling them since I’m working.
I did this recently. My electric bills became high when we moved. Neighbors (duplex) and surrounding neighbors bills would be under $100 with pools, hot tubs, etc. running. Our bill would be nearly $300 with no pools, hot tubs, etc.
They came out and had me shut off my electric to the house. Said they didn't understand why my bill was so high, but perhaps the landlord was willing to tear down the walls to make sure the electric wasn't being run from my apartment to the next apartment.
Said good luck! And left. We could have a second company come out and test the electric, at our cost.
Not to laugh at your misfortune, but lol. Isn’t that just Classic utility behavior? I just got off the phone with RIE and they told me that I can switch providers.
I'll allow your laughs! We are in the same situation.
RIE makes all its money from delivery (which are where much of the super high charges live). They make little to none off of actual production/generation.
Yeah. But isn’t that only part of the bill? We have a different provider (green solutions) but it’s still RIE getting a big fat chunk of that.
Yes, RIE has a monopoly on distribution, but we can choose our supplier.
Because of RIE's semi-monopoly, there's a Public Utility Council that is supposed to oversee and regulate the amount of profit RIE is allowed to make on the distribution. It was previously 5% profit, but I think it was recently increased to 7.5%, but they don't make it easy to find that rate for some reason.......
Probably. My buddy’s brother (what an RI statement) works for one of those companies that “save people money” by helping them switch suppliers, and he said it’s all bullshit.
Well you can switch suppliers so you can pick a greener mix these guysand get a tax write off as well) but yes there are some less than scrupulous folks out there (is it Arcadia that’s basically the ponzi or are they not around anymore)?
> is it Arcadia that’s basically the ponzi or are they not around anymore
They are around and I use them. I don't know about being a ponzi though, it's more like arbitrage with renewable energy credits which is its own form of semi-scummy, but it's also the best option I've been able to find.
Arcadia is a scheme. Everytime I've looked they make you sign a 1 year deal. But, power adjusts every 6 months with RI energy
So Arcadia sends out mailers just after the rate jumps for the winter in October. Saying "your power company just raised your rate! Sign up with us for 4 cents less per kWh!".
But what they don't tell you is that rate is locked in for a year. So when April rolls around and RI energy lowers the rate, you'll end up paying Arcadia more.
It's all a sham.
That's not how it is for me. No commitment, and I pay the current RIE rate minus 10% every month. I'm signed up with a community solar project though; do they have a different program like you're describing?
That's good to hear! It's very possible things changed. I haven't looked in a couple of years now. Is there a maximum Kwh you can use per month? Are there other fees involved? I'm guessing you still pay the distribution and transmission and all the other fees to RI energy but don't pay for generation charges as that's coming from Arcadia?
Would it be possible to see a power bill with your personal info redacted?
>Is there a maximum Kwh you can use per month?
Not that I'm aware of
>Are there other fees involved?
Nope, just straight RIE bill -10%
>I'm guessing you still pay the distribution and transmission and all the other fees to RI energy but don't pay for generation charges as that's coming from Arcadia?
I only directly pay Arcadia and they handle everything in the background (too much in the background for be, I'd prefer to know more about just how it works). As I understand it, they buy the REC from the solar farm, sell it to RIE, keep some of the difference for themselves, and my payment covers the rest.
>Would it be possible to see a power bill with your personal info redacted?
Sure, I'll grab a copy when I'm on the computer tomorrow. Feel free to remind me if I forget.
Thanks for the answers! I appreciate the quick follow up!
Here's the statement I get from Arcadia: https://imgur.com/a/psrQEtt
And here's what it looks like from RIE: https://imgur.com/a/HTTdJvJ
Those credits on the account belong to Arcadia, and have been building up since peak solar production over the summer, like if you had solar on your house and were producing more than you consumed. But because it's a community solar project, those credits belong to the solar farm (via Arcadia). So for this month, my $112 payment on a $124 bill went straight to Arcadia and the solar farm, because I/they/we don't owe RIE anything. In other months, my payment would get split between paying a "real" bill with RIE, and going to the solar farm.
Interesting! This is definitely a different program than what they had before, unless I'm confusing them with another "alternative energy provider" but if I remember last I looked a few years go, they only had wind energy, and it was a locked in rate for the year.
My math at your rate for this month shows you paying 0.2998 cents per KwH factoring in all fees. Using my latest bill, I'm paying about 0.3031 per KwH. So it does seem to be cheaper.
The Data nerd and skeptic in me would love to see this tracked for a full year to make sure it actually is a savings, but it seems great!
> The Data nerd and skeptic in me would love to see this tracked for a full year to make sure it actually is a savings, but it seems great!
The math is always the total RIE charges minus 10%. They don't really have their own separate rate, it's always 10% less than whatever supply+delivery I'd pay RIE.
There are other community solar projects in the state, run by other intermediary companies like Arcadia. I am not sure if any other companies offer a better deal than capturing only 10% savings. I really should look into it more.
This is the official RI OER page for community solar: https://risolarmarketplace.com/
And this is the .gov site with general info and FAQs on the program: https://energy.ri.gov/renewable-energy/solar/community-solar
My only thought, is what happens if they have a low production year. and don't generate enough KwH to give out to their subscribers? I'm going to assume they have some sort of language in their contract to cover their ass.
Still, it does seem like a good deal!
I am not sure what legally binding stuff there is, but the advertised promise was that I will never pay more than RIE charges.
I don't think there's any real way for it to cost more...even if the solar farm output is 0 kWh, then I'm just getting supplied with the default RIE generation mix at the RIE rates.
Which might be something I should clarify...Arcadia is not actually my energy supplier. They are an intermediary that manages community solar projects that buys cheaper solar power from farms, sells it to RIE at market rates, and passes a portion of that savings to the consumer. On paper, my supplier is still RIE.
They are distinct from alternative suppliers like you'd find on this list: https://www.ri.gov/app/dpuc/empowerri/rate_card
edit: it looks like the "smart energy" supplier fits your earlier description...slightly lower advertised rate right now, but a 6 month commitment that will extend into next quarter's RIE rate update which will almost certainly be lower than current...so if you signed up with them, you'd have a slightly-lower rate for now, then be stuck with a higher rate later.
You're probably going to have to call them. Do you get breaks during the day?
I do taxes, so no not during this time of year lol
Are you paid hourly or are you salaried?
Salary lol
Even salaried employees get bathroom and lunch breaks. Last time I called Rhode Island energy I got through in a few minutes and it was like 7pm on a Friday and it was a question about my bill. I think you’ll find time.
Yeah I was able to squeeze in a Call to them a little while ago. Was expecting a much longer wait time on hold.
Then, yeah, you're screwed for now. Maybe your boss would understand and give you time off if you explained the issue. Otherwise, you'll have to wait.
Literally just had this problem with our gas meter. Company admitted to guessing, came out and fixed the meter and cut the bill by 2/3rds.
Dang yeah idk, it does seem like a lot of electricity disappearing. I work from home and have a couple always-on PCs and media server.
Yeah I work from home once a week, sometimes twice. And even then, laptop, dock, two monitors, and one set of lights. It’s not like I’m mining crypto or something lol.
The good news is that presumably your solar array is sized for your current use, so once it's up and running, you can find and plug those holes to use less and sell more back to RIE!
Yeah I’m projected for 100% offset so I’m looking forward to them being switched on.
I wish they made digital gauges for the breaker panel so I could see how much draw was going to each circuit. Then I could really go and hunt down the problem.
They do!!! https://www.energysage.com/energy-products/energy-monitors/
They just clamp around the wire in your panel so you can read each circuit's current without having to actually change any wiring.
Or for even cheaper to just help you go hunting leakages instead of a more permanent install to monitor over time, a clamp meter like this $15 Harbor Freight one would work: https://www.harborfreight.com/digital-clamp-meter-96308.html
Wow thanks you saved me a bunch of trouble searching!
As an electrician, be careful over there. If you make a mistake, you can’t just say sorry and get to retry.
Thanks! I have no plans to zap myself lol. My father used to do electrical on military planes so I’ll have him dust off his tools and come help.
Do you have a sump pump always running or dehumidifiers?
I have a dehumidifier in the basement that I shut off and unplug around oct/Nov every year once it begins to cool.
My suspicion is that my well pump may be running a lot but I have no way of telling.
If it plugs in (and isn't hard-wired), you could buy a Kill-A-Watt device and find out for sure.
Some local libraries have them -- see if yours does, then it would be free!
> f it plugs in (and isn't hard-wired)
It legally should be hardwired.
But there are non-contact clamp meters that can measure current without having to change any wiring.
> It legally should be hardwired.
This is a good point. And yet I just stand silently and point at: LANDLORDS.
Hah, fair. But op said they're installing solar, so I'm guessing they own the building.
Oh, totally right! :7)
Honestly, either kind of power meter is a great tool for understanding your energy use.
Might be. I have a 3500sqft house with a barn with a loft apartment basically that I use as an office for work every day and my electric bill is around 450 too, but I know I use a lot.
Do you have a smart meter?
Do you have a lot of devices that are constantly drawing electricity even when they're not powered on? Some may be plugged in and not powered on but still adding to your usage
I mean maybe? Some phone chargers, a computer, a couple tvs. Router, printer. Usual stuff really.
Don't look at the price, compare kwh used to last year. If it's the same amount of electricity then you don't have a problem device it's just the increase in the rate.
kWh is up 200 yoy and 300 from prior month. Something’s fucky.
Yeah something going on.
That's smart
>Well water
Check for a broken well pump. Those are known for consuming a ton of energy if they malfunction/break.
That is next on the list!
You can check the well pump by opening its breaker and watching the pressure gauge to see how long it take pressure to draw down with no faucets on. Toilet and faucet leaks could be a cause - faucets will be obvious, and toilets can be isolated by turning off their water supply valves and watching the tanks.
66?!?!? that’s tropical — we never go above 60, and only the kids room get that
Transmission is the literal transmission lines you see aling the hwys.....Distribution is the telephone poles within your city/town/neighborhood. I understand the frustration and energy cost is extremely high. Just thought id clarify the difference.
Fyi I think you might have replied to my comment when you intended to reply to the post itself
Ahah you are preaching to the choir. There have been a million post about this lately. My bill was 487$. Fuck electric heat and renting. The best post to date was the guy who had solar and still had an electric bill because he used up all his credits. It’s down right insane and people will start leaving the state if they don’t make some changes.
I spent 7 years of my life living in the mountains of Utah. My electric and gas bill combined on the coldest months was never higher than 150$. My average electric bill was 60$ out the door with tax and fees. Moved to Rhode Island and the cheapest bill I have ever had was 110$. I have family in North Carolina and they run their AC all summer, bills are usually 150-180$.
We are being screwed hardcore in this state. I feel for all the low income families and all the retired seniors on a fixed income.
[deleted]
You are drawing WAY too much for not having electric heat. You are almost at the same draw as me but I have electric heat pump,heat pump water heater ,one EV car (short commute) electric floor heating, always on server. Just saying that it’s time to get some sort of meter to find out what’s drawing so much power in your house.
Yep that’s some of what I’m trying to do, no idea if such a meter exists tho.
Emporia vue meter
My electric bill is 0, low income people got a grant of over 700 and my gas is also 0 another grant, so ppl on low incomes take advantage of these programs!!
In Mass. Buddy had a huge increase. Called his electric company and they were like that's what you used. He asked for them to check the meter. Guy came out today and the meter was reading wrong and they replaced it with a digital. He may be able to recoup some of the charges. Longshot for sure.
If your bill is 450 bucks then yeah you use plenty of electricity. Turn off lights and unplug things not being used
Are you for real?
Its Winter.
Electric Baseboard Heat.
I already keep my thermostat at 55. Should I freeze out my pipes?
My electric bill was $486.
That's why we are complaining.
They raised the rates 40% this year.
Correct! I’m in the same boat.
Cause you're using a resistor load as heat. What that means is it's one of the shittiest efficiency rates of heating. Need multiple times the electricity to warm the same sq footage as other means of heating. I understand it sucks cause upfront costs of other systems or simply renting the place.
Seriously. My bill I got last week was for $80. I couldn't imagine wtf I'd have to be running to get a $450 bill
I’m gonna guess you have an apartment? I’m in a 2200 sqft house. Different energy needs brother.
I would investigate a bit as I have a 3800 sf house and my electric bill is under $150. I don’t unplug things not in use and two of us are working from home. Gas bill on the other hand is insane. Compare your usage to this time last year if you haven’t already and maybe have someone check out your well pump
Thanks for the info, you providing a comparable really helps so I know where I “should be” for a monthly bill.
Do you have forced air or baseboard? What about well?
City water, septic and gas heat/hot water. Dryer and stove are electric. We have central heat and air (so forced hot air). Our units are old (30+ years). Our heat is set to 64 right now because of the outrageous gas prices. Our summer electric bill is about double when it’s super hot
Lmfao no I own a house
Wow thanks very helpful 🙄
Nick has a very good point. Just look at how many items you have plugged in that aren’t turned on or being used. Hairdryer, toaster, DVD player, computer, printer, lamps, phone chargers, clothes irons, etc. Regardless if you are not using them, they are drawing current. That toaster that you only use in the morning is using electricity all day. Anything plugged into a receptacle is drawing current no matter if it’s turned off or not in use. You’d be amazed at how much electricity we waste. I live next door in Connecticut where we have the second highest electricity rates in the country. I saved about $30 a month by unplugging things not in use. Of course this depends on the size of your home and the number of electronics or appliances in the house, but it may be worth your while to try it.
Is that not common knowledge? Nick may have a point but coming in and stating the obvious isn’t helpful.
I’m not gonna make an itemized list of what I keep plugged in in my home, but it’s really just computer, tv, monitors, a couple cameras. Really basic stuff.
I did notice you eye rolling emoji. Why post here if you don’t want to hear peoples responses?
You can get subsidized surge protectors on the ri Energy website that auto switch off once the master device is off. So for instance when the computer is off all the other things like external harddrives, printer, monitors are cut from the power supply. Or tv, the Bluray, game systems (which use a lot when off), speakers whatever get cut from power. The have some slots for always on too for things like the router that you don't want turning on and off.
My electric bill this month was $80
Mine was $40 and gas was $50 for a 900 sq ft apt. I think my apt is energy efficient?
Woohoo! You're definitely winning!
Obviously you either have natural gas, oil heat or someone paying your heating bill.
Unfortunately I'm an adult and have to pay my bills. I have gas heat. That bill was $109 this month.
Most people I see complaining have something that uses a lot of electricity. Some probably recently changed over to heat pump and not thinking they moved from gas to electric then. They also never say the KW used. I posted my graph from the last year showing usage and cost, why don't others? Here's mine again - https://i.imgur.com/YTLE4SW.jpg
Yeah, the KW used is much ore importan to see what’s going on.
Mine was $130 this month. How much electricity are you using?
Whats the break down between the distribution and usage charge? At $450 it sounds like you use alot of electricity or have a large house. For electricity my distribution charge is usually under half of what the supply charge is. For comparison my gas bill is usually over double just for distribution charges.
Yea. Glad it wasn’t just me. My usage was less than the deliver coat. Usually under $200. This past bill was $350.
I’m in MA, so it might be a little different. But “transmission” is typically from the power generation station to the substation (the definition of “transmission” in power systems). “Distribution” is typically from substation to your house. So they might sound the same, but they are for different things.
Its sort of confusing that they separate your charges into different fees like that, but I’m assuming the transparency in fee structure has to do with it being a regulated utility.
Got an old fridge with nothing in it?
Did ya change all your lights to LED?
Or just an old fridge.
Take a $100 bill and close the fridge door on it and see if it pulls out easily. If it does then you might need a new seal. Go all around the perimeter.
Then get another $100 bill and do the same on the freezer.
If you do need a new seal, each bill should just about cover the cost of parts. Installation is easy.
Only reason I haven’t replaced them is because they are so freaking expensive and I need new shelves and drawers too. By that point it’s almost cheaper to buy a new damn fridge.
There have been a lot of posts recently with similar experience as you, and after they’ve done some digging they’ve found out that many of the high bills were based on “estimated usage” and not an amount read from a meter. You can have the meter read in this case on request. Might be worth a phone call.
My gas and electric bills combined were $1000 this month. My house is huge and poorly insulated, but we keep it in the low 60s here and have NG stove, hot water and heat. It was way less last year and I recall it being a more harsh winter then. The pumps on my radiators are electric, and I’ve been running a basement dehumidifier a lot, which I think are some of the primary users
At least we aren’t in Europe?
My electric bill was $55, Gas is $71 for a 2 bdr, I live by myself so heat doesn’t need to on all the time.
Mine was $120 last month, absolutely ridiculous.
I refuse to pay more than $50 a month on both my electric and gas bills, regardless of how high they go. National Grid can fuck off with their 57% increases.
Lol let us know how that goes
600sqft apartment. Electric heat on at 63 since the 72 in TV heats up the living room lol. Bill was 428$ crazy!
Found out my landlord has had a dehumidifier plugged in and running 24/7 while in a socket connected to MY electricity. I unplugged it and my bill went down $100/month. This has been going on for at least two years now!!! Check if there’s some weird things plugged in that could be running constantly that you could’ve easily forgotten about, $450 is quite the lump sum…
Gas too! My gas cost was $66 but service fees are $121, it ended up being a $191 in the end … I’m so disgusted by it all.
[deleted]
Just paid almost $100 more than this same billing period last year, when my kWh was almost exactly the same (guess it’s good to know our usage is consistent). Our “delivery services” for this period this year was actually CHEAPER, despite the kWh being slightly more! It’s all in the supply services fee.
I’m glad we are at least on a smart pay/budget plan for our oil.
Yea, it’s time to go rogue solar. I’m either installing a grid tie inverter with zero export or 12kw split phase off grid inverter on a automatic transfer switch. Whatever I do won’t send my generated energy to Rhode Island energy, it’s a ripoff.
That sounds really convenient, but also a tiny bit highly illegal and dangerous.
Not illegal, perfectly safe if you know what your doing. Off grid is the easiest setup you can still use the grid when needed with a transfer switch.
Homeostasis is a luxury these days between food costs and heating.
Same. I used 100kwh less than last year and am paying more. $283(2022), $322(2023). And I have solar...
That is a lot. My house is a split level ranch with 3 levels. Oil heat, electric dryer, propane range. 3 TV's, several computers running 24x7. My current bill is $113.
Transmission is different from distribution. The networks are different. Transmission leads into a substation at high Voltage, 100kV and up, think metal towers. Distribution leaves a substation and goes out on lower Voltages around 14kV or so, think wooden poles. Your power may not be generated by the utility. They may buy it from somewhere else and pay those fees for it. They then distribute it to you.
Not justifying the bill. Just giving some knowledge.
My electric was very low, but my heat was $370 ish. I just got a $300 rebate from the state government for my electric bike, and as soon as I got the rebate check, I had to turn around and pay this big bill.
Ya know how people felt about Republicans and oil companies during Bush? That's what democrats and electric/solar companies are now. They're all lining their pockets and screwing over the public.
Go solar
PLEASE stop with these posts, we all get it, we're all fucked.
If you prefer, we can mix it up with some more posts about mortgage/rental hikes to give you some variety in existential dread. /s
But joking aside, I miss it when the bulk of posts here were all about funny local words, restaurant suggestions, and other lighter fare on occasion.
Disconnect everything when you leave the house. The only thing that should be connected is the fridge.
Coincel_pro t1_j4wd1je wrote
Fun part is that RIEnergy gets to have the final say in the size of solar array you can put on your house. So the one company that stands to lose money by you putting solar on your roof, gets to decide how much you're allowed to generate.
I feel that this should not even be possible.