Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

VeganGlitter t1_iu57ox2 wrote

Reply to comment by mattbackbacon in Beef is a more moral meat than chicken because you get more food per life taken by I-Am-Polaris

I don't believe this is correct. "The amount of plantmatter or the amount of processing needed to get
comparable amino acids from plants that you would get from meat, is
grossly unhealthy." The leading cause of death in America is from the Standard American Diet. Which is to say, eating meat, dairy, eggs, and cheese. Also I recommend reading the book "The China Study" by T. Colin Campbell. It shows a long term study on a massive scale of eating Vegan plant based for health reasons. Also if your claim was correct, then hospitals wouldn't serve hamburgers, hot dogs, pizza etc. They would serve raw fruits and vegetables. And what happes when people eat more raw fruits and vegetables, their health usually improves.
Most of the food that is accessible to the majority of the worlds population IS easily accessible. What are you talking about it's not accessible? Making a profit off an animal is different than making a profit off plants. There are more similarities to humans being herbivores than carnivore or even omnivore. I recommend you watch this YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5wfMNNr3ak

0

mattbackbacon t1_iu5kr7z wrote

Pretty sure “more than your stomach can hold” is at the very least “grossly unhealthy”. Hell, that’s being generous.

And by not accessible, I mean exactly what I said. And I explained why leading up to that statement, but I guess you’re just illiterate. Most vegetation is inedible to humans. Humans are categorically, biologically, and digestively nothing like herbivores. Most of the “vegetables” we eat aren’t vegetation, they’re FRUIT.

We eat the stores of glucose, fructose, and starches in plants. Cellulose is only digestable by herbivores, something we are not. As such, cellulose’s only function in our bodies is as a dietary fiber.

You’re not going to subsist on the grass in your yard, though judging by your lack of understanding of k-5 biology, I’m guessing you’ve never touched grass.

0

VeganGlitter t1_iu7vc3v wrote

I wouldn't consider that being generous but ok. I don't over eat. If you think the food the animals eat is free range you're incorrect. It's all farmed. Most people wouldn't harm an animal in real life if the animal was put in front of them at a restaurant. Humans ARE more herbivore than you may think. Our digestive track is about 8 times longer than a carnivore, a big characteristic of an herbivore. Our teeth are flat, and our jaw moves side to side, another big characteristic. Our gut DOES have bacteria to digest starches and plants, I think the process starts with amylase.. And our eyes can see color, another characteristic of an herbivore. When we see deer or squirrels, we don't get locked in to it, we are able to stop and look away and think. All characteristics of an herbivore. Also I don't eat grass, but I have tried a short of wheatgrass before.

0

mattbackbacon t1_iu8kjer wrote

You act like only carnivores and herbivores exist. Again, did you ever graduate from 5th grade?

The word you're looking for, that our digestive system matches, is frugivore. Thing is, frugivory can evolve in species that were previously carnivorous or herbivorous, but with primates, far as we know it's the former. The fact that we don't have key features of an herbivorous digestive system, like the production of cellulase or the symbiotic relationship with a microorganism that does produce it, speaks volumes of that. Salads have very little caloric value to humans, because leaves are mostly cellulose. Micronutrients in vegetation are also quite the problem for us, because they're not as bio-available to us as they would be to an herbivore.

Not only this, but most plantmatter we eat is cultivated by us, biologically manipulated by us. Many plants we eat fruits from today can't even reproduce, we have to make clones and chimeras of them by methods such as grafting. Many of these plants used to be completely unsuitable for consumption, but we cultivated them anyway. Why? So we don't have to hunt as much. Then we started ranching animals, including them in our agriculture.

Ultimately, your whole argument stands on a house of cards built on ignorance and out-of-date dietary classification.

1

VeganGlitter t1_iu916oa wrote

That was the first time you asked if I graduated the fifth grade. Can you count? Or did you not graduate first grade? Obviously the education system has failed both of us, so why not educate yourself? I recommend watching this video, it addresses the topics we have already discussed. https://youtu.be/ROI0Anhc01U

Humans can digest plants. Vegans don't only eat lettuce. You go from humans came from carnivorous primate argument, to arguing how plants are being grafted in order to cultivate them. That is a part of gardening and farming. For example the carrot wasn't from nature in that same sense. I'm not against carrots, are you? An animal example is chickens. They have been bred in very unhealthy ways for meat and egg laying. There's a big difference between the two. One is a vegetable, one is a sentient being. So which is worse? Grafting a Cavendish banana. Or enslaving an animal? I would say the animal doesn't deserve that way of life and treatment. This video addresses your statement for cellulase. https://youtu.be/l0jbQG9H79g

You can't say my information is out dated. You don't know where I'm getting my information from. I could just as easily say that same ignorant statement to you as well, but then we both would be wrong. I don't play with cards, I'm too busy trying to help animals.

1

mattbackbacon t1_iu92uz8 wrote

That was a callback to

> your lack of understanding of k-5 biology

But you'd get that if you had the reading comprehension of a first grader.

Morals have nothing to do with my diet. Morals are subjective, and dietary needs outweigh them.

You're again conflating fruit with vegetation. If you can't understand the difference, there's no reasoning with you. Frugivory can emerge from either carnivorous or herbivorous ancestry, and with primates, typically the former.

If you're not going to cite anything outside of propaganda, there's no sense talking.

1

VeganGlitter t1_iu94vil wrote

Ok fine, what information in elementary school biology are you referring to? You've obviously stated you have no morals when it comes to your diet. I know the difference between a fruit and a vegetable. Not propaganda, facts. I recommend you watch the videos first before saying that.

1

mattbackbacon t1_iu98gam wrote

M8, if you had the reading comprehension of a kindergartener you'd know what I'm referring to, because I literally said it in plaintext.

Anyway, your first "source" is a literal propaganda channel, the second is just a guy's rambling video that doesn't cite sources, but not to worry, the legwork can be done easily to both determine what is factual in the second link, or at least likely factual, and what isn't. What is likely factual, is that if there is cellulase anywhere in the human digestive system, it's in the mouth, which would encourage chewing on leaves to suppress appetite or boredom, which is something we humans do. It is not in the gut, however, and instead cellulose is one of the indigestible carbohydrates we humans only use as fiber and not as a damn thing else. Eating plants as a source of fiber to aid the digestive tract is also something carnivores and omnivores do. Some even constipate themselves with this fiber to hibernate, and there's a carnivorous bear in asia that through human intervention and its own laziness for hunting, currently subsists on what little nutrition it can squeeze out of a plant that used to be just its fiber source.

Regardless, as your sources contained propaganda to begin with, you're not worth anyone's time, as it shows (as if you didn't show already in this thread) you're willing to be dishonest to make your nonexistent point.

1

VeganGlitter t1_iu9acrc wrote

I wouldn't say propaganda. If you watched the videos you would see one is a doctor, and the other shows nutrition labels as their example. He actually reads a lot of science literature too. The bacteria to breakdown cellulose isn't just in the mouth, it's also in the digestive tract. I recommend watching the video of the doctor again. I'm not a bear. A bear is a bear. You literally gave the same argument in the video. That's why I linked those videos. Also shame on you for saying I'm not worth anyone's time. You didn't answer my question on what information was provided in elementary biology.

1

mattbackbacon t1_iu9du0w wrote

I did. I answered it before you asked. But I guess I can't expect literacy from someone with either Vegan or Glitter in their name, let alone BOTH

1

VeganGlitter t1_iu9g5q2 wrote

I don't know what elementary biology topic you are referring to. We have talked about many topics. Which topic/ topics were you referring to with elementary biology? I already said humans have the ability to digest starch and cellulose. I already said farming practices are immoral and un natural. And you haven't given any arguments that are worth not being Vegan and investigating Veganism.

1