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drsillyus t1_iy2u0gd wrote

Reply to comment by Run_MCID37 in The fact that Cats are far more dangerous than Wolf Spiders, yet we love them far more and are far less afraid of them, says a lot about how humans value physical appearance in creatures by Run_MCID37

Wolf spiders look very similar to many species of deadly spiders.

Your reasoning is invalid.

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KingfisherArt t1_iy3w909 wrote

Doesn't that validate OPs "humans value appearance"?

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drsillyus t1_iy3wr3a wrote

It's not an aesthetic issue, is a safety issue.

We don't hate spiders because they're ugly, it's because they can kill you

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mobrocket t1_iy4wzxf wrote

Let's use that very flaw logic

Dogs kill more people than spiders... Do you kill them? How about cows, you kill them on sight? And the #1 killer animal by a gigantic mile are humans... You do that too?

See how flawed your logic is? We kill roaches and flies too, but they aren't deadly.. explain that?

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drsillyus t1_iy4yol9 wrote

Roaches spread deadly disease.

If you don't live on a farm you have zero chance to be killed by a cow.

Consider evolution and how that fear kept us alive. That's why. It has nothing to do with being ugly. Everything to do with survival over millions of years

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mobrocket t1_iy5itoz wrote

Roaches aren't that big of spreaders of deadly diseases, humans spread diseases much more effectively... You ignored that part...

Additionally, evolution isn't why we kill spiders... Where you getting that from???

There are multiple cultures around the world that don't fear them and kill on sight.

It's cultural not evolutionary... Early humans most likely consumed them...

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drsillyus t1_iy5jdq4 wrote

Early humans didn't die to spiders, because they avoided them. Same with snakes and other dangers.

Its also the same reason we sneeze when we see the sun, moving from dusty musty, rotting caves, to clean outside air. Those who didn't clear their lungs, died of respiratory infection.

Culture changed instincts in some places, many it remains.

It makes no evolutionary sense to fear other humans. That's why.

Culture has existed for a thousand years or so, evolution has been doing its thing for millions of years.

Your wrong about it being cultural

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mobrocket t1_iy5k43y wrote

You act like spiders kill tons of humans.... They don't... And never have

There are more people on Earth now than ever... Yet still hardly anyone dies of spiders....

You for some reason associate them with snakes... No clue why..

And now added in involuntary responses....

And it makes TONS of evolution sense to fear other humans you don't know....

You are a MASSIVELY greater chance of getting killed by a stranger than spider.

It seems like you just have this irrational fear of them and you are doing your best to justify it..... Just education yourself about them.....

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drsillyus t1_iy5kwx7 wrote

I don't fear spiders. I think they're cute.

I am aware of what evolution does and doesn't do.

Innate fear of snakes and other deadly animals is documented across the globe in many species. It is simply another example.

Only since we began growing in population and forming cities, was there a danger from other humans.

This being only a thousand years in effect, next to millions of years of non city living, where other humans were the only thing you could be sure was not going to kill and eat you. It makes no sense to fear humans since there has not been enough time for evolution to take effect.

Humans didn't spread disease more than insects until we developed global travel.

Evolution happens over hundreds of thousands of years at a minium.

Do you get it? City life and the dangerous nature of humans has only been present for mere thousands of years.

Not enough time for evolution.

Lack of medicine and knowledge, meant that a spider bite, even a non venomous one, would likely spell death by infection to any early human

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mobrocket t1_iy5lxdt wrote

What... No...

Human tribes would kill each other long before the first city... Where are you getting your information???

And humans have been spreading diseases to each other since humans existed. The fucking common cold doesn't need a insect vector to spread... not to mention diseases spread genetically.

And an overwhelming number of spider bites need zero medical treatment. There are 45000 species of spiders and only about 30.or so are harmful to people...

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drsillyus t1_iy5mj0i wrote

You forget about medicine. Before sanitation, a splinter was death. Any open wound would basically kill you. That includes spider bites.

You seem to not really understand how evolution works.

Sure humans killed each other, but they also helped and bred with them, furthering the species and reenforcing that, those who don't run from the cave men, have children.

However, those who did not avoid biting insects, would simply die and not breed.

Over millions of years this creates an effect.

Learn more about evolution. It doesn't do what you think it does.

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mobrocket t1_iy5n2b3 wrote

I give up... If you think a splinter means death... That's such a rare case even without medicine it's ridiculous to even pose that. Because by your logic every human would have died.

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drsillyus t1_iy5nn5g wrote

You may want to look into that. There have been many deaths by splinters, even in modern times.

You forget that humans used to have 15 kids and only 1-2 would make it to adulthood. Oh so many died

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PeeledCrepes t1_iy65rz5 wrote

Humans avoiding animals that kill them is not innate, you never seen a little kid get near deadly snakes? It's something that's taught by the parent because the parent knows.

Humans have always been problematic to other humans that's prolly the silliest thing you've said. Humans are rather territorial specially in the days when every scrap mattered, killings used to be a lot more common.

To the last part yes and no. A spider bite could get infected and kill someone back then yes. Just like an infected tooth and look how that's gone. Evolution doesn't work like that. Evolution doesn't cause people to be scared of spiders. Your mom screaming spider while burning the house down causes fear of spiders. That shits learned behavior not evolution

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drsillyus t1_iy67zxl wrote

You're cherry picking examples. Evolution isn't alway perfect, traits aren't passed on to everyone.

Every animal on the planet has been proven to have fear instincts for survival.

Cats who have literally never seen a snake, still fear snake like objects.

Infants instinctively know how to hold their breath and swim

Extreme phobias are learned. For sure, but that in no way negates the fact that, there are instinctual fears that have been passed on

In the past, humans were more likely to die from environmental factors, than other humans. 99% of ancient man's death, was via predator or disease.

Just look at common apes for the exact examples.

They war over territory and kill each other sure, but they die 99% from predators, insects or disease.

You really don't see how that is the main factor, not the random tribes.

Shit, for a lot of our evolution we were literally rodents. That stuff hasn't gone away.

Learn more about evolution please.

Those who avoided death, bred. That is all

Stop citing examples that are too recent for evolution.

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PeeledCrepes t1_iy6d2ao wrote

Fear is an instictual behavior, fear of the unknown is evolution, fear of specifics is not.

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drsillyus t1_iy6ifkq wrote

That's an opinion, not backed up by the evidence.

Evolution also selected for the following, in relation to spiders and other crawling insects.

Killing them, hiding behind those who kill them, staying in a group that deters insects, people who make fires, people who avoided all bugs and more.

Just becasue some people have no Innate fear of insects, does not mean that evolution has not selected for revulsion towards insects.

The fact that so much knowledge is available about how harmless most insects are medical treatment exists for nearly all bites, yet arachnaphobia does not go away, kind of shows you how persistent the fear is in some humans.

Just because you don't think it makes sense, doesn't mean evolution hasn't selected for it.

Many pointless things get passed on. Fear of the specific is a real evolution.

Why else would a cat, who has seen snake like toys, still recoil in fear over a fake snake behind them?

Because snakes fed on cats a lot.

Just like minor insect injuries killed countless millions of humans over the millenia

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PeeledCrepes t1_iy6stkt wrote

Humans aren't social and use fire to repel insects... nor does being social or in a group stop an insect? Arachnaphobia doesn't go away cause people don't want bit? People are scared of bees where unless your allergic it does nothing, people are scared of ants for the same reason. Cats are scared of snakes because snakes are silent. Snakes feed on cats when possible considering a ton of snakes couldn't eat a full grown cat. I get what your saying it's just in practice, my kid isn't scared of spiders. I am almost not scared of spiders, is that because evolution? No I learned how to deal with spiders and stopped being scared (ironically same with bees, just don't bother them and they don't bother you)

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drsillyus t1_iy6tlz8 wrote

You keep thinking evolituon is logical and follows exact death tolls

It doesn't. Learn more come back ffs. You're pretty much a kid or severely learning disabled to be this far off the point and this unable to grasp evolution

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timn1717 t1_iy4l8gu wrote

Not many people are super interested in determining the species of the 8 legged horror crawling around, it’s enough to know that it could hurt you. I kinda feel like it’s a hardwired fear, and for good reason.

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[deleted] t1_iy2uzhk wrote

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drsillyus t1_iy2v3pl wrote

No, it would be like saying all cats of a certain size, not all mammals.

I didn't say all arachnids, I pointed out how a wolf spider looks like a hobo spider and is roughly the same size as a brown recluse. Both are deadly. All inhabit the same area

There is a reason that has zero to do with aesthetics

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AproblemInMyHead t1_iy2xdgi wrote

Generalizing is literally ok in this context

I know to stay away from big cats vs small. I know the difference.

But just because i know some spiders are deadly... I'm gonna generalize the fk out of them. All of them. I don't give shit if it's a daddy long leg. Touch me and die

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MyMudEye t1_iy36w8j wrote

And yet you are more likely to die from a disease your cat gives you.

People are funny.

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