This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.

Remember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not "thoughts had in the shower!"

(For an explanation of what a "showerthought" is, please read this page.)

Rule-breaking posts may result in bans.

The tendency of some people to mistreat others because of a perception of weakness is sick.

The ability to remain kind in those situations is strength. And if you have the nerve to stay kind, you always win.

Yea just got cussed out over the phone trying to help a patient and I don’t feel like a winner though…

It's human. Either you like it or not.

Edit: The karma of this comment is a good evidence that people prefer cute illusions over hard reality. Thank you.

Or you always lose.

Unless you won't ever see that person again and don't gain reputation from that interaction.

Is it because you truly messed up or is it because you feel like this person just got to you by cussing? If you feel like you did everything right then who cares if they think you are weak for taking their abuse?

They get mistreated because of the perception that they can’t retaliate in kind.

100% it’s an abuse of a power dynamic

Nope they just answered pissed off and then took it beyond mid conversation.

They don't mistake kindness for weakness, they just are purely transactional in their kindness, and someone they deem weak they don't need to manipulate means they don't have to bother pretending to be human any more.

[removed]

It's because they're weak, powerless little people. They realize that they can be absolute bastards to retail workers because retail workers can't do anything about it and have to take it or they'll get fired. So they get their little power trip feeling by abusing retail staff. Then usually complain to their corporate office and end up getting free stuff out of it. I worked in retail management long enough to see that pattern repeat regularly. Get told by someone at head office I needed to talk to some teenager about their attitude, and I'd see the email or transcript of the call from Karen, and knowing often as an eye witness that it was entirely made up, they would take the Karen's side, offer gift cards and apologies and the trend would continue.

Taking advantage of something exhibiting an apparent weakness is a basic law of nature. Welcome to planet earth.

It's animalistic is what it is. To rise above that is what is human.

[removed]

It's being a shitty person, whether you like it or not.

Granted, but it is also something that can also bite you in the arse if you assume too much lol

This is precisely why I don't take shit at my job. Buckle once and they learn, my first job we'd get complaints literally every day because the manager/owner would bend over backwards. Now that I'm in that position, I avoid giving anything unless absolutely necessary. I may offer extra compensation to polite customers, but definitely don't for rude customers.

Human morals have evolved so much in a few centuries, they still are. This ain’t a fact bruh

Customer service people get mistreated because people are assholes, not because people think kindness is weakness. I've seen a lot of nice customer service people get shit on, but it's not like the mean/rude/unkind customer service people are being treated like kings. They're getting it just as bad or worse, because they're drawing the ire from the assholes and a lot of people who would have otherwise been nice to them if not for their bad attitudes.

Am I going crazy? It’s customer, not costumer, is anyone else seeing this?

It's a typo. People make them all the time. No need to be worried or see a medical professional. Calm down.

Sometimes, it just rude bullying because the customer believes they gave the higher ground, when in fact, they have nothing.

Nope, clearly says "customer" to me. I think you should see a dotcor.

[removed]

It's because the only reason to call customer service is if something is wrong so the people calling are aggravated and the company is using customer support as a shield

And this is why it will take years for places to get back to normal in terms of having customer service workers because many are tired of the shit they have to put up with from customers. Like someone said, customers being acting shitty towards the workers because they know that the sustainment of the business depends on their spending of their money, so it’s a shame, but it’s a part of the customer service culture. You gotta have tough skin to work in customer service.

Nah people treat costume and wardrobe people like crap /s

[removed]

[removed]

It very much is not. One of the core reasons humans have evolved is because of our ability to take care of each other. We don't leave our weakest to die like Zebras

As someone who worked with customer service (phone) I was kind to the customers, however sometimes things didn’t go the way they wanted it to. If they started yelling or throwing slurs, I gave them a warning that they have to keep it professional or I will hang up.

When I got a promotion and was responsible for employees that was handling the calls, I told them all during training that we do not get paid enough to take their shitty attitude so if someone gets ugly, just hang up.

If someone became difficult and called several times, I’d take the call myself.

Rousseau would say otherwise

You're right, however this does happen on an individual level. Some people absolutely perceive weakness in others and take advantage by harming/robbing/sexuall assaulting them etc. Take a look in any prison and you'll see this in plain view. It happens on the street as well but prison is the most obvious example.

[deleted]

We are animals. Either you like it or not.

Yep. That's exactly how the overwhelming majority of humans are.

That doesn't contradict what I said.

You rock

We’re quite lucky in Aus then. We’ve got a zero tolerance for abuse or violence in public places. So we just simply remind them of this and that we will simply hang up if they continue it.

I think it's because there's a lot of passion in the costumer business

That’s true, I use to work retail n it was bad. I couldn’t imagine doing food service while people are hangry.

Ok…I’m on mobile and the phone takes over the word I write sometimes, sorry I didn’t proof read it for you.

Most places have this. They just don’t tell you. If you look through your training materials they will have in there that you have rights to deny service based on if you feel unsafe.

I have done so, managers have tried to say I can’t, I show them the training where it says so.

You don’t ever have to let people walk all over you in the name of customer service. Hold your ground and give yourself the respect you should.

That’s how it is for me right now, my job said if it ever picks up in my city, they’ll hire more people and I’ll be in charge of the team. Hopefully I can pass that on so people don’t have to keep learning that you have to let people yell at you.

That’s interesting, I’ll have to look at the employee handbook

Definitely do. Companies don’t like explaining your rights to you. Even if it’s not in the training materials, you can look up workplace laws where you live. They might be included there.

The better educated you are on things, the harder it makes for them to fire you for it too. Even though the us is at will, they can’t fire you for just any reason. Otherwise you can take them to court and easily win. If it’s something about them firing you because you didn’t put your life at risk, that’s not going to go well for them.

Most people also aren’t fully aware that the employer is usually very responsible for staff safety etc. too; it’s literally in their best interest not to have someone potentially get exposed to situation requiring counselling/compensation etc.

Companies like to hedge their bets on people not knowing those rights to execute them. They also like to throw out terms like “insubordination” or “failing job duties” to scare you.

But they cannot demand you do “unlawful” requests. And if someone is harassing you, belittling you, or otherwise treating you horrible. You have the right to shut down the interaction and refuse to help them further. You can suggest they find another person to help them or your manager can.

I tend to be a very kind and sharing person. This has led to numerous people treating me like shit and many many people telling me I need to be less kind. For me these people reveal themselves to be the kind of people I don’t need to associate myself with.

Anybody who sees kindness as weakness is living for a future that is bleak to say the least. If the opposite of kindness is strength, I’m not interested in that set of values. These days I’m even less interested in having the conversation. I’d rather just keep being kind and let whoever has their mind fucked enough to not believe in kindness, be. Everybody wants to justify their assholish behavior as just fighting for their whatever. Wht if we just took responsibility of the asshole things we did and tried to be better rather than focus on giving ourselves an out. Lets just stop the bullshit.

[removed]

That must suck. Lucky again, as that sort of behaviour (the abuse and the dodgy business practices) is considered quite 'Un-Australian', and is usually, and quite frankly, called for what it is.

It’s just one of the many issues our ultra capitalist country has. Companies can get away with so much shit they shouldn’t be able to. Especially where there is no sense of honor, morals, or ethics if it involves any potential profit loss.

In this case I’m sure it’s safe to assume the grievance isn’t with getting thought of as weak for taking their abuse, it’s having to deal with it in the first place

Adam Levine: "Baby, I'm preying on you tonight, hunt you down, eat you alive. Just like animals, animals, like animals-mals."

[removed]

Here here

As with everything; it varies. I don't think prison is necessarily the best representation of the average individual on the planet. But it's definitively a good insight into how some of us behaves

Be respectful of the customer. If they don’t give you the same treatment, they can kindly fuck off :)

Usually if they start yelling, the conversation ain’t going anywhere anyway so if you force the hang up due to their bad attitude, they’ll most likely call back and most likely keep calm.

Either that or they’ll calm down when you tell them to keep it professional or you’ll hang up

When you think about it no one makes them do that. When I worked retail, no one made me. When I went and got a better job, no one stood in my way and said “no, you can’t leave”

Disagree. Some people do take kindness for weakness, but it’s unrelated to why low-wage workers are mistreated.

Low-wage workers are mistreated because society has an unacknowledged, unofficial hierarchy, in which some people are more socially powerful than others.

Consider: even though customer service workers and doctors are both paid to do a service for the general public, but no one mistreats doctors the way they do CS reps. That’s not because doctors aren’t nice people, nor because there is something unique about their kindness that makes people not see it as weakness, but because the service they provide is high value. Therefore they are high value, and deserve respect.

We’re fine with low value service people being treated like crap and we expect them to be kind no matter what. Or else.

Why do all the worst people just assume all of us are like them? Is it a comfort thing? Does it make you feel better about your own shittiness?

You are the one making assumptions here.

What I said is from experience.

So anecdotal evidence?

Yep.

Sounds about right.

For sure. I only used it as a go-to example precisely because of how overt the behavior is in there. You put a bunch of violent convicts into a confined space and the strongest inevitably will prey on anyone that shows weakness, from their perspective.

It does.

By definition anecdotal evidence is a small sample

To a degree. I always assume it's because it's the only interaction that isn't reciprocal. Customer service people have to be nice no matter what, so you don't have to be nice in return. It shows how people really want to treat people if they had no consequences

no, they get mistreated because some people are entitled assholes

I see what you're saying but my experience is very different. I'm nice to my customers until they decide to be rude. Literally 98% of the time I call them out they immediately settle down. Most of the rude people just need a reminder that if they want my help they will cut the attitude and be respectful.

It's literally as simple as that. I snap fingers and they behave.

Thanks for the confirmation about this, Colonel. A verbal abuser can get hauled off to jail. Australia leads the way!

[removed]

The reality is that you are a moral agent and capable of choice...

[removed]

Animals who cooperate to build things and invent stuff. Imagine if Napoleon did not have a tailor or a baker and they lived in agressive competition... Lol. Naked and hungry he could not rise to do anything.

"If I see far it is because I stand on the shoulders of Giants"

Ibe actually had people tell me that wealth is a virtue and everyone else are loosers. They do not care who they mistreat because they see us as weak and useless. Im not sure these ideas are not compatable but both exist simultaneously.

That's also true

One can complain and be upset without being nasty or cruel. Ive dealt with a lot of customers over the years and there is a clear distinction between having emotions and lashing out at people.

I wish I could live up to this. I think you are very much on point.

A lot of people see wealth as a virtue. However that is a belief of wealthier people.

In poor people its always abusing a power dynamic. Some of whom are very nasty for no reason.

Many get rewarded for this behavior with free stuff so they repeat it.

I don't see anything conflicting with what I stated.

But I do see that you have the wrong view about how society works.

Napoleon had A LOT of internal and external aggressive competition. Besides that, most people tailoring and baking were doing that because they literally needed it to survive. Many would prefer a better life.

I don't exactly work in customer service, even though I do provide information about my services at the customers request, and let me just say- the amount of self restraint my co workers and I have to have some days is astounding. People are bitches to us for no reason some days.

Yes I've noticed that in my current job. Quite a few people can't take it, and quit.

Lol and if they went to seek that better life nothing would be produced... Ive heard that logic from wealthy people and it confuses me. We need labourers to produce literally everything. If Napoleon was stuck subsistence living, or any other historical figure, because no one would work in teams to make bread or build walls or host government and all acted like individuals and started their one man businesses they would achieve nothing.

Rocks can only be piled higher by widening the base. All societies are pyramidal in nature. In todays world folks are drilling into the base to get sand to build their own little spires to their own little peaks. Without the base however they cannot achieve anything and if they drill too much the structure collapses. Its also not just a metaphore but happens occasionally to civilizations and is a warning.

Ling views of archaeological history show as people become well fed they have time and energy to invent things like pottery or bows. When famines are bad enough most other jobs are abandonned for subsistence living. Squeeze people too hard out of a sense of self worth and the tower falls.

We exist as a collective. I cannot do my job if the people who build my tools do their job and they cannot do their job if their food sources dont work. Every society is centered around agriculture or is held at the mercy of agricultural imports.

Nobody wants to grind flour all day but it jas to get done. Shitting on people for doing hard work that is necessary for their own survival (and lets be real many of these things are also pleasureable) is a huge mental block devoid from reality.

How about humans relationship to every other creature on the planet? It is either exploited, very cute or culled.

You are doing a strawman's fallacy.

I didn't defend what you are trying to counter argue.

Ah yes, and we should just accept that and let people be shitty without calling it out.

While I agree with you to an extent, there is such a thing as people doing things like twisting apologies as admission of guilt, or taking advantage of a people pleaser to try and wangle a comped meal out of a minor infraction.

Sure the customer service people who are rude back get more abuse in return, but then it turns into a game of "Can I get this empoyee so worked up that they do something so bad their manager is forced to give me a freebie to smooth things over."

The best way I've found to deal with them is to be polite but firm. Nice, but not yielding an inch. It leaves them no weakness to exploit and no rage to also exploit.

Nah... We should call them out.

Funny you say that, because weren't you originally just getting pissy because people were calling out the way these people act?

[removed]

So.... people like being Assholes?

Pointing to real supply chains is not a strawman fallacy. Its literally how everything works in the material sense. The base physical reality of civilizations is labor.

Its one of the reasons strikes are so effective. In ancient rome the working class would sometimes abandon a city for better rights/laws/whatever and the wealthy would realize quickly they had no more income from investments and they rapidly ran out of wine and bread. Forcing them to actually do labor which is of course harder, less profitable and less savory than their adminministrative or management type positions.

Happened just recently where corporate sent workers to fill in gaps at Mc Donalds. Turns out they needed labourers to serve food to support all the other jobs at head office. Seems kind of self evident no? They ended up being early adopters of higher wages to try to minimize that problem

Until machinery replaces people its a fact of civilizations.

"If I see far it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants"

If a business closes because boomers retire and everyone else chooses better jobs (the nobody wants to work rhetoric) and the owmer cannot run the operation themselves points to the necessity of what I speak.

You are truly losing it...

Go drink some water and then tell us why are you arguing about that.

Idk.

What I do know is that is a human behavior and it is widespread.

I used to work customer service and I strongly believe in treating others how you want to be treated. I am generally a very kind person, I would never be rude to someone on the phone despite how bad my day was going. But if they started being a dick they were in for a rude awakening. Nothing gets me more fired up than assholes.. and standing up for yourself is important.

What? Why would I be pissy about that?

I just stated that that's human behavior.

[removed]

Yes paragraphs and reading are too hard for some people. Have a great day.

[deleted]

> Yes paragraphs and reading are too hard for some people.

Being passive aggressive it's shameful you know?

> Have a great day.

Ok, you too.

[removed]

I worked retail for the first 10 years of my career, mostly in a customer service role. I had good days and bad days. I can say with 100% conviction that people treated me a lot better when I was having a good day and being as friendly as possible.

Exactly. If the other person is weak you should be double careful to not mistreat them, not exploit their weakness.

I can fix your problem in about two minutes. If you decide to spend ten minutes yelling first, it's up to you. I'm going to do the same thing regardless.

It still happens though. I've seen adults rip in to teenagers because our shop has run out of a product that was on special. I'm not that big myself, just older, fatter and with a little grey hair. When I tell them to talk to me that way instead of to a 14yo, they shut up quick and walk away.

It's a tough time right now, people are stressed out and some don't have a healthy outlet. I guess getting through traffic during summer to go to a shop that is low on stock due to - whatever reason this week - it can be a breaking point. But threaten or swear at one of my colleagues who have been on this planet for less than half as long as you, you deal with me mate (verbally, I wouldn't know what to do if someone squared up to me but my words seem to work).

I know some would say call the boss, but usually, the shift boss is younger than me and has just a little less of an idea on how to deal with assholes than me.

People mistreat others because they're selfish, insecure, assholes, nothing more...

Hard to say. Costumer service workers are rare. I'm not even sure if that's a real job title. I imagine the job would entail providing service to costumers. But that's really nonspecific. And probably unnecessary. Costumers know what they are doing, that's how they got the job.

I just want my costume and be able to leave. I shouldn't have to be nice to them.

[deleted]

i think what makes us humans is our ability to think about each other and care about each others feelings, and like feel. and is everything that is "in nature" morally right? do u need to take advantage of ppls weaknesses to survive? maybe ur insecurities do

[removed]

It's more likely that the people who mistreat them lack power in other aspects of their lives and so abuse it when placed in a higher social standing.

Tendencies of narcissism, sadism, and sociopathy can be attributed to these behaviors.

We're not animals jerk off. We're human beings. We evolved past the need to prey on the weak. Maybe you missed the boat on that one

No that's the animal kingdom. It's called humanity. You should try it.

Go live in the bushes then. Stop leeching off our human amenities if you want to live like an animal.

Rousseau was wrong. Hobbes was right.

You are aware this does not invalidate his observations, right?

Do you seriously expect people to simply ignore their life experience because what happened to them is not statistically relevant? (Even though statistically, human being are indeed shitty)

>Why do all the worst people just assume all of us are like them? Is it a comfort thing? Does it make you feel better about your own shittiness?

Fails to interpret a sentence, feels personally attacked, immediately becomes aggressive.

Typical shitty human behaviour, thanks for providing a valuable example to his point.

Oh yeah, it still happens. But I’ve never very seen anyone press a point past “mate I’m on minimum wage, you have to treat me as a person etc” (where forced mandates weren’t involved*).

I work at home Depot and I sometimes have to take a call. If someone tries yelling at me over the phone, I hang up on them wait about 30 seconds and call back and say "sorry about that but I think the call got disconnected, what were you saying?" Most of the time they realize if the wanna be a dick head then they aren't gonna be helped so they change the attitude. The ones who continue to yell, I'll make something up and basically say there's nothing we can do to help them (even if there is something I can do for them) and end the call.

This mf likes that totalitarian shit amiright, that dictatorshit straight up buzzin - hobbes

[removed]

That totally makes sense but as a person who came from retail and went into nursing, things escalate higher which make them more outrageous. Maybe because it’s more intimate? I’ve always thought of healthcare workers as a “hierarchy” level being pretty up there. That’s why I believe kindness gets taken advantage of easily.

“We don’t leave our weakest to die”

Yes, poor people live amazing lives. /s

Also, the way how humans treat inferior animal on the planet is based upon us taking advantage of our superiority.

Then Rousseau was blind and deaf. Because apparently they never saw how humans take advantage of animals(aka weaker beings).

“Need to take advantage”

Nah you don’t NEED to. But humans do.

Have you seen how humans treat all the other animals on this planet? The ones that are “inferior” to us? We take advantage of them all the time.

“We’re not animals”

Yes we are.

“We evolved past the need to prey on the weak”

No we haven’t. We prey on the other animals on this planet day in and day out.

Read his magnum opus before you spill that kind of blasphemy.

[removed]

For the first ten years of my career, I worked in retail, mostly in a customer service capacity. I went through good and terrible days. I can state with absolute certainty that when I was having a nice day and acting as amiably as I could, people treated me a lot better.

Ok so now we just have to have everyone have that same energy all the time while working jobs that don’t pay enough lol