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Scuka1 t1_j6gvhj9 wrote

Hacking in movies is usually portrayed terribly, but not using a mouse actually somewhat accurate.

Many beginner programming courses will start by teaching you how to use the console to navigate Windows as a basic skill that helps your programming efficiency.

Once you get used to the console, and also learn the relevant keyboard shortcuts, certain things can be much faster than using a mouse, especially considering the fact that you're typing code and both your hands are on the keyboard anyway so you might just as well leave them there for other tasks instead of switching your right hand back and forth.

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SilveredUndead t1_j6hez29 wrote

I work in finance, I know basically nothing about programming. 90% of my work is currently in SAP, Excel or Outlook, and I barely touch my mouse. Considering most "super elite hackers" in movies are supposed to be the absolute top of their field, I'd be very disappointed if they did use a mouse, honestly.

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AnonymousGhou t1_j6hptgk wrote

"There's a Moose, loose in the hoose!"

Sorry, random Simpsons reference for now reason.

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DWright_5 t1_j6i2y8y wrote

It’s good to be current. No need to post any past reason.

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ashrocklynn t1_j6hvu0x wrote

Still use mouse to grab sections of code and copy them, double click a variable to select it: now then you can do things like jump to its declaration, or object data, or anywhere it's called. Coding uses the mouse plenty, just not constantly

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abiessu t1_j6i1fnq wrote

And all of this can be done at least as quickly with a keyboard (in, e.g., Emacs, vi, etc.), it's only that modern programs have tried to make the mouse more useful for those who insist on using it...

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Ruadhan2300 t1_j6i8vp6 wrote

Sure. In an obfuscated manner using keyboard shortcuts that relies on you knowing there's even a command, let alone remembering what four buttons you need to press at the same time to make it do it.

Right click, see the list of common tasks, choose the thing you're doing.

Trivial.

I'd rather use a mouse than waste brain-cycles on learning keyboard shortcuts that are unique to the IDE.

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abiessu t1_j6jvg3j wrote

A similar argument can be made that touch-typing isn't really necessary to get good use out of a computer. This doesn't negate the fact that someone who learns it (and by extension might take the time to learn keyboard combinations) has a good chance of out-performing someone else who hasn't learned one or both in terms of "raw speed to do a task" in text-editing environments.

In "visual logic" or "block" programming, there's obviously no comparison since the mouse is actually required...

But going back to the shower thought that hacker-types in movies don't appear to use the mouse often, this is appropriate because the tools such a person typically uses are much more suited for keyboard-only interaction, even in their programming environments.

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ashrocklynn t1_j6ifpi9 wrote

I mean, that and I'm dealing with literally dozens of objects and variables at a time, how the ide know which I meant? Some are named similarly, making getting to the specific one through typing non trivial...

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ashrocklynn t1_j6ig6p3 wrote

I mean, it has its power to where you can do certain things with it faster; you can't discount it as an input mechanism entirely. Now, should people rely on it yes? Absolutely, 100 percent yes. But for quick selection of a specific word or words clumped on a screen at once, mouse can be quite useful...

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AuzaiphZerg t1_j6hoz7y wrote

Many beginner programming courses will start by teaching you how to not use Windows*

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Gemn1002 t1_j6italo wrote

Second this, half the time my mouse is either not connected (I only use the laptop trackpad if I really need it) or the mouse is connected but shoved out the way.

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DoppelFrog t1_j6g2grh wrote

How do you think the programming was done for the first mouse?

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scheve_83 t1_j6h4jns wrote

Touchpad? Man that must've sucked.

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Tlou3please t1_j6hp8mm wrote

Close, but no. It was the little clit in the middle of the keyboard that nobody uses.

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scheve_83 t1_j6hr07b wrote

I couldn't find it.

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nursejackieoface t1_j6ifh7d wrote

Close your eyes and flail around with your tongue. You still might not find it but you'll have fun.

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literalyawesome t1_j6harjc wrote

Wait well then how was the programming for the first keyboard done ?

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DoppelFrog t1_j6hdzvc wrote

Front panel switches.

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ISwearImNotAnAI t1_j6hijoe wrote

Wait well then how was the programming for the first front panel switches done ?

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DWright_5 t1_j6i2nqv wrote

First, God invented the universe.

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kennbr t1_j6kbgss wrote

And all he really wanted was an apple pie

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DWright_5 t1_j6kbwe3 wrote

It’s just hard to believe there’s such a thing as electric current and a billion other things, on this hunk of rock that’s spinning endlessly in the middle of nowhere.

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ThatGuyGetsIt t1_j6fn58y wrote

Anyone who cares about speed won't really use a mouse unless it's the only option to do something. Mice are slow. Keyboard shortcuts are fast.

If you want a real-world example, I bet there are YouTube videos of blind people using a computer with only their keyboard and a screen reader. That'll probably give you a sense of what's possible with only a keyboard without silly movie hacker shit.

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the_colonelclink t1_j6h5a07 wrote

Bingo. Before there was beautiful Graphical User Interfaces there was completely text-based operating systems. Most, if not all of the shortcuts used back in the day still remain. It is much, much quicker to use shortcuts and run commands then the time it takes to use a mouse to point and click on something. For e.g. you could click the address bar, typed your website, then click go. Or in the browser you can press Alt+D, type your website, then hit enter or shift enter (browser dependent), and your hand doesn’t even need to touch the mouse.

Not to mention, a lot of hacking is done on Linux-based operating systems. Which once again, don’t have much of a focus on a GUI.

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Bedlemkrd t1_j6h7yja wrote

Using Linux is mostly command line but in real life every 5 key strokes should be the sound of them slamming the tab key to auto complete.

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s3DJob7A t1_j6i0943 wrote

Followed by up arrow, up arrow, up arrow. Ahh there's ls -al

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Unkindlake t1_j6gol3y wrote

I want a real hacker to record themselves actually hacking even though it will probably be boring as fuck

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nslenders t1_j6h4q1d wrote

Phonecall: Hello Jessica, this is John from IT. There seems to be a problem with your computer making it run slower than it should. I'm going to send u a link to reset your password, that should fix it on the backend.

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WOTDisLanguish t1_j6hgmvp wrote 

vim
:q
:q
:q
:q
:!bash
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WOTDisLanguish t1_j6hgwtt wrote

Either that or the silent panicking of accidentally using a TUI over a really flimsy reverse shell, or when you instinctively press ^C and accidentally kill your netcat process.

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Sunblast1andOnly t1_j6i8ojv wrote

I... I understood "cat."

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crispy1989 t1_j6im132 wrote

  • Shell = The "command line". (More specifically, the part of the command-line interface that prompts you for commands, runs commands, and interfaces with the underlying OS.)
  • TUI = Terminal User Interface, a basic text-based interface that typically uses a text terminal as a grid of characters
  • Reverse Shell = A way of getting a terminal/command line on a remote system, especially when that remote system is not directly accessible on the Internet
  • Flimsy Reverse Shell = A reverse shell heavily limited by bandwidth, latency, reliability, or other restrictions. Makes using it a pain.
  • ^C = Abbreviation for Ctrl-C. Usually used to kill the currently running command in a terminal.
  • netcat = A command that is able to connect and receive connections and perform basic data transmission. Can be used to establish a rudimentary reverse shell.

Explanation:

Most work using commands on terminals is very low-bandwidth, so is particularly well-suited to slow or unreliable connections. However, programs that offer a terminal-based UI often use far more bandwidth (and other resources) in sending UI updates over a terminal. Sometimes, an overly aggressive terminal UI can send so many updates over a slow connection that the connection just gets "frozen" waiting for all that data. If one accidentally does this, the usual response is to try to kill the program sending data ASAP to limit the amount of time spent waiting to receive it; typically by smashing Ctrl-C repeatedly until it stops. However, the netcat program itself (unlike proper remote terminal commands like SSH and telnet) will intercept the Ctrl-C and will exit itself; in this example, ending the remote shell.

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Sunblast1andOnly t1_j6impnr wrote

You gave a list of definitions and followed it with an ELI5 to tie it all together. You are not the hero we deserve, but the one we need. Thank you, Internet stranger.

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CaptainAddi t1_j6hovz6 wrote

A Guy starring at his screen for 3 hours wondering what is wrong with his script

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s3DJob7A t1_j6i19yw wrote

Plenty of creators on youtube. Someone like ippsec does tutorials on challenge machines or thecybermentor for learning the basics

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MoobyTheGoldenSock t1_j6j7v88 wrote

Mr. Robot did a really good job: it used real world techniques and managed to make them work well in the context of a tv show.

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shaqrock t1_j6fg7i5 wrote

Does anyone remember being taught in school to use a computer without a mouse? Or was that just me. This was back in like 2001

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Yasutsuna96 t1_j6gtbiy wrote

Man i probably need to learn this back. Working at my current job gets me cramped in a small space with no place for a mouse and the trackpad is making me lose my mind.

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theDudeWhoPosts t1_j6h7ac4 wrote

I worked in a small space and wasn't a fan of the trackpad. Then I discovered the trackball mouse. It saves space by the fact you don't move the mouse around, but rather you use your thumb to move the trackball around. It was weird at first, but now it feels natural and I prefer it over a regular mouse.

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shaqrock t1_j6l0ent wrote

Try playing wolfenstein and let me know

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theDudeWhoPosts t1_j6l3sf0 wrote

You know, I didn't even think about that! I don't game on the PC, so maybe that's fine. It works fine to navigate 3d modeling programs.

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robot_socks t1_j6ilkaa wrote

HP tech support taught me to navigate around windows with the Tab key around that time. 2 hours later we determined my motherboard was toast.

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highrouleur t1_j6i7j1g wrote

I remember in 6th form college in 94 being told not to use the DOS command line that I was used to and to use the default Win 3.1 instead

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Agitated-Feeling-734 t1_j6iv0mv wrote

What computers? I was the last of grade 12s(matriculants) to do maths using a log book,1985. It was forbidden to use calculators in exams. And typing was for girls only. At the time the Commodore was awesome and would’ve been so great to learn and use in school. And it had no mouse. That was reserved for Apple Macintosh owners

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Aganihm1 t1_j6h2qsu wrote

Not using the mouse is something I can relate to, the skill that allows a hacker to never have to use the space bar is something I have not been able to master though.

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nslenders t1_j6h4xrw wrote

tab for autocomplete usually adds a space too

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Aganihm1 t1_j6h8rbg wrote

Ok, time to find a way to have tab always know what I'm trying to type, in every thinkable situation. 😄

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Tinchotesk t1_j6hosyw wrote

>the skill that allows a hacker to never have to use the space bar is something I have not been able to master though

Alt-32.

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Aganihm1 t1_j6hvn4i wrote

Ah, a person of culture! How could I forget. 🤤

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Groogity t1_j6ge33l wrote

As I’m sure most people understand, hacking in movies/TV shows is rarely accurate. However, in real life you most definitely would use a mouse although many commands and shortcuts can be and are generally executed using a keyboard. The more technical side of “hacking” is mostly done within a terminal. Most professionals that work in relevant tech fields you will find use their mouse much less then your average user.

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Yasutsuna96 t1_j6gthwz wrote

The mouse only purpose is to highlight what you want to copy.

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ammonium_bot t1_j6h38vf wrote

> much less then your

Did you mean to say "less than"?
Explanation: No explanation available.
Total mistakes found: 1232
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^^Github

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Myrdrahl t1_j6hl7eg wrote

How exactly would I use my mouse, without a GUI?

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_b1ack0ut t1_j6hs98q wrote

Of all the things to rag on Hollywood hacking for, this ain’t it. If you know your way around terminal, a mouse will only slow you down

Go talk about cybernukes or 2 techs one keyboard lol

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zaqwert6 t1_j6i660v wrote

I know crazy right? When all they had to do was click on the Hack icon right there on the desktop.

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Usually_mistaken t1_j6ff4k3 wrote

I'll admit I don't k ow shit about real hacking, but that seems reasonable almost. I think Most real hacking just involves going through lines and lines of code looking for weaknesses which can usually be done witha keyboard.

You'd probably need a mouse at some point but a keyboard would suit you most of the time

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redweka t1_j6g07ry wrote

They even have two people use the keyboard at the same time - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl6rsi7BEtk

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the_knowing1 t1_j6gyrsm wrote

I don't have to click that link to know it's the NCIS scene.

I watched that shit when it came out. I was mad.

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DavidHewlett t1_j6h3i03 wrote

Wait until you realize that pulling the plug on the monitor wouldn’t have done jack shit to stop the hacker.

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Myrdrahl t1_j6hlb68 wrote

Out of sight, out of mind! Take THAT!

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johnsgrove t1_j6hgd60 wrote

I never use a computer mouse. Too slow. Does this mean I’m a hacker?

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Torewin t1_j6i9isf wrote

When you’re hacking, there’s usually no user interface so a mouse would be useless.

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ManchurianPandaDate t1_j6g3auf wrote

That would be dumb. Why would they use a mouse instead of a computer ? Duhhhhhhh

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SchrodingerMil t1_j6h4ptl wrote

As a lot of others have said while movie hacking is inaccurate, in the real world mice are inefficient. I don’t do a TON of it, but even in my limited time using Excel I don’t touch my mouse.

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_monsieurnieht t1_j6hoe2z wrote

I see that all of you are commenting about how fast you are without mouse. Well, I guess that you are either at god level or just programmer wannabe because during my 5 years working as a programmer, I don’t think I can do anything withkeyboard as fast as just using a mouse. Shortcuts sure are the fastest, but try select 500 lines of code without a mouse, I can do it in 2 seconds and then write this comment while you are scrolling with upper arrow. Idk, prove me wrong.

Edit: Also, if you’re unlucky, your program doesn’t allow tab to select, the tab indexes are a mess, and there isn’t shortcut for everything, good luck Alt your way to the menu.

Edit 2: This thread remind me of Linux superiors, lol, because it’s free doesn’t mean it’s better.

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_b1ack0ut t1_j6hu5u9 wrote

Here’s a starting tip for scrolling. If you’re using only the arrow keys, you’re probably goofing it. Keep in mind that T scrolls to the top of a document , B will bring you to the bottom, and space bar should move you about one page worth down, using control in conjunction with the arrow keys will jump between the beginning or end of paragraphs, or between them, home and insert will move the cursor around around it’s current line, and when combined with ctl, will do the same with a text box.

If you wanna select a paragraph quickly, just use shift+ctl+ up or down, to just jump up and down selecting (or deselecting) paragraphs at a time.

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_monsieurnieht t1_j6hzlaf wrote

I use them all the time, still, I can just select 500 lines of code by mouse in 2 seconds. Nice try tho.

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_b1ack0ut t1_j6i2yov wrote

Ok, so you already know how to do it and choose not to. That’s your choice, but that doesn’t mean it is impossible to perform on keyboard just because you personally prefer it another way.

That’s why multiple forms of input is great anyways, what works for one person might not be great for another, like i personally find I can just enter the keystroke combination or two in the time it would have taken me just to reach for my mouse, not even inputting anything.

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_monsieurnieht t1_j6isnxj wrote

Yeah, but I said nothing about “impossible” though.

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_b1ack0ut t1_j6iv2ve wrote

Fair. But again, impossible doesn’t need to be part of the equation. Just efficiency I guess, in the way you find it easier to use a mouse, I find It easier to just press keys that my hands are already on, than move to a new Input, unless I’m already using the mouse, such as while multitasking while also playing games.

I suppose it comes down to if you only know keyboard commands, mouse commands will be easy enough to intuit if you have to use a gui, but if you only know mouse inputs for everything, you’re fucked when the gui is gone.

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Isteppedinpoopy t1_j6i5y6i wrote

You mean “use the shift key to highlight the text?”

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_monsieurnieht t1_j6istyj wrote

Yes, it’s possible, no it’s not faster than using a mouse.

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Isteppedinpoopy t1_j6iuux2 wrote

Lol go ahead with your bad self. You’re either Johnny mnemonic or terrible with the keyboard

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RanCestor t1_j6hwtx7 wrote

I learned to use blind typing on QWERTY keyboard by playing "Typing of the Dead". Zombies made me do it.

Curiously you could buy this game on PS2 console too, it shipped with USB keyboard.

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Showerthoughts_Mod t1_j6fdar4 wrote

This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.

Remember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not "thoughts had in the shower!"

(For an explanation of what a "showerthought" is, please read this page.)

Rule-breaking posts may result in bans.

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Mental_Painting_ t1_j6fdmn0 wrote

Well, I guess they prefer to use a keyboard instead to type in those wickedly long codes and commands. Or maybe it's just for the dramatic effect!

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genzo1 t1_j6hm53w wrote

My old dos box I played doom 2 on in early 2000s didn't even have a mouse or speakers.

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Superspudmonkey t1_j6hmleq wrote

Do we all remember that NCIS episode where two people were typing on the same keyboard at the same time?

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El_Bradbury t1_j6hog43 wrote

But why would they need mouse, really? They know all the linux commands and bash the command line 300 cps :)

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martinborgen t1_j6hqeou wrote

Terminal is fast, as many pointed out already.

Also, terminal is the most basic user interface. No one will make a graphic user interface with icons and labeled buttons for some obscure setting that tha hacker will use as a backdoor.

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chocki305 t1_j6ht97w wrote

This is something I feel is accurate.

I have yet to find a reason to use the mouse when dealing with text in a windows based environment.

If you know the keyboard shortcuts, it takes longer to reach over and grab the mouse thn it does to hit. Alt f x

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Joshew90 t1_j6ibih8 wrote

As a high school teacher, “kids these days” don’t know how to type correctly, and just chicken peck on the keyboard.

So I’m a short amount of time I assume movies will start showing hackers pecking at the keyboard also.

Or they’ll just type on their phones.

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DaitoAnonymous t1_j6id1yr wrote

Hacking in movies also looks nothing like it does in real life. Although, as an ethical hacker myself, I rarely use my mouse. The only thing I actually use the mouse for is opening the terminal

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Yummucummy t1_j6imkm6 wrote

Here, have some dun pretending to "hack the mainframe" or something.

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Disastrous-Click5782 t1_j6irfvv wrote

Why would they? Control C and V are all on the keyboard. You even get enter

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Agitated-Feeling-734 t1_j6iwzk5 wrote

Then there are those Command centre Tech geeks in movies with those dreaded vector base single colour neon animations running on a black or transparent background and you rarely see their hands. They must be good with shortcuts cause those animations can’t repeat themselves you know.

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sunnie_d15 t1_j6jgnw3 wrote

You really don't need a mouse. If you're a good hacker you know all you need to do is enter up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A then return.

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SKS_but_Who t1_j6jkvb2 wrote

Mouse just slows you down. When I was in school to be an IT tech, many years ago, instructors would pull your mouse or pull your keyboard and make you solve a problem without it.

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kennbr t1_j6kdka8 wrote

Programmers on Reddit talking about programming: I know all the vim and emacs commands

Programmers in real life actually programming: copies and pastes from Stack Overflow

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