rnargang t1_j6svag7 wrote on February 1, 2023 at 5:34 PM

The eventual transition is a no brainer given the cost savings of renewables compared to fossil fuels. The Ukrainian war just accelerated it to reduce European reliance on Russian fossil fuels. It's a big upfront capital investment for Europe but they will be in an enviable position going forward when they don't have to rely as much on fossil fuels and their price volatility. I also wonder what it will mean for internal growth and investment. Rather than continually spending tens of billions of Euros in the international fossil fuel market, they will be keeping much of those expenditures and reinvesting it elsewhere. I'm curious to see the long term effect of that.

imhere4themcomments t1_j6usiry wrote on February 2, 2023 at 12:59 AM

How much battery production does Europe have? Does Europe mine any raw material for batteries and solar panels or are they becoming completely reliant on China for those necessities?

rnargang t1_j6uzgf2 wrote on February 2, 2023 at 1:50 AM

No idea. The article is referencing renewables for generating electricity. Batteries are for storage. China is currently a major supplier of battery technology because they decided to aggressively invest in the future while countries like the United States kept subsidizing fossil fuels. Lithium deposits are scattered around the globe. Countries and industries around the world are aggressively trying to diversify and create alternatives to a supply chain dominated by the Chinese. It will take time.

imhere4themcomments t1_j6v2jg2 wrote on February 2, 2023 at 2:13 AM

Right. You’re saying it’s a no brainer to transition to renewables but I’m curious which renewables you see as a “no brainer” given that most require investment.

rnargang t1_j6ve2ir wrote on February 2, 2023 at 3:41 AM

Everything requires an investment no matter where the power is coming from. Renewables continue to decrease in cost and can generate energy for less than fossil fuels - sometimes a lot less, hence it's a no brainer to build out renewable power sources. They also last for decades, produce much less greenhouse gases over their life cycle, and, in the case of Europe, less money is being sent to a country threatening you with nuclear war. Transitioning to renewables is inevitable. The war is accelerating it.

imhere4themcomments t1_j6vodo5 wrote on February 2, 2023 at 5:12 AM

Which renewables are currently decreasing in cost? Inflation is driving prices way up and making the world dependent on China. It takes a half million pounds of mined earth to build one electric car battery. Most windmills take more resource than they actually produce in their life span. Solar panels require mining and a huge percentage are produced in regions of China that use forced labor. So which renewable source or sources are you saying are a “no brainer?”

rnargang t1_j6wuxsn wrote on February 2, 2023 at 1:42 PM

Please do your research. The cost of wind and solar keep declining - solar at a much faster rate. I've never come across an article reporting something different. Carbon emissions are also much lower than fossil fuels over the life cycle.

As for materials, some are available around the world, others are not. Lithium deposits are in different countries and other sources are being developed. Some material, such as cobalt, is located primarily in one country - Congo. Lots of abuse of laborers in the extraction process, which doesn't make the news and seems to have been missed by you as a complaint. Researchers are looking for alternatives of hard to source materials or ways to more effectively recycle existing materials to reduce mining.

The widespread transition to renewables is still early in the process. We will learn and figure out ways to do things better. Technology will change. Alternatives to lithium are constantly being tested. Please don't attack something that you don't understand.