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myarsehasteeth t1_j7u24ml wrote

"Service guarantees citizenship" springs to mind. Glad they got what they were promised!

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victorix58 t1_j7u6uly wrote

I was thinking how on earth do you get to be a soldier for a country and not be a citizen of that country. If we're accepting someone into the military, their citizenship should go through before that even happens.

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Zech08 t1_j7uh6un wrote

lol youd be surprised how difficult it could for some cases. I had a shitty time trying to get my citizenship while in the military and know several others that had to go through way more trouble than necessary. And this was when they swapped over the time in service guarantee to as long as you are active service.

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a-snakey t1_j7v4liv wrote

Because Republicans made the process so complicated in an attempt to make it discouraging.

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sharksnut t1_j87pfgr wrote

Look at the dates. Every man for whom a deportation date was mentioned was deported by the Obama/Biden administration.

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Jaysyn4Reddit t1_j7uas59 wrote

Foreign Legions have been a thing for a long, long time. Urkraine has one right now.

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victorix58 t1_j7ub7lf wrote

Sure. And the idea has been questioned since ancient rome. If you are dying and killing for a country, it should be beyond question that you are a citizen.

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hydrOHxide t1_j7w4a8q wrote

Actually, if you serve in the French Foreign Legion, you WILL get French citizenship after a few years - if you want it. You can even get a whole new identity, papers and all.

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Paladoc t1_j80pqko wrote

Right, but that's the boon granted someone serving in THE Foreign Legion, you get your French Citizenship when it's all said and done.

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Fuzakenaideyo t1_j7unn3h wrote

Would you like to know more?

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MetalWings202 t1_j7uqm0h wrote

I would actually, because don't you have to be a citizen of a country before you can be in the military?

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Bacon_Bitz t1_j7uxd2y wrote

No you do not! In the US as far as I know anyone can join (maybe not countries we have beef with?) but after you serve your required duty you can apply for citizenship. You should get it no problem. However, if you committed a crime before you're a citizen you can be deported.

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infectedtoe t1_j7vj7ld wrote

We had a Chinese guy in boot camp who literally got to America 3 months before hand. Literally didn't speak a single word of English, no idea how he was allowed to join. And I don't even mean because of his ethnicity or anything. The country doesn't have an official language, but the military sure does because everyone needs to be able to communicate effectively in emergency situations

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snarky_answer t1_j7v2ubd wrote

You just need to have a green card to enlist. Can’t be a military officer if you’re not a citizen though.

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pyrrhios t1_j7vc1p9 wrote

I get the reference, but at the same time, it absolutely should.

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Doomgloomya t1_j7x960g wrote

The ones that lived and had people advocating for them in the US did.

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UsmcFatManBear t1_j7vni27 wrote

Well when you end up committing crimes while being a US LPR you tend to get yourself in trouble and deported.

> “Whatever charges got a combat veteran deported are irrelevant,” he said. “No one deserves to be deported after sacrificing, doing the things these young men and I had to do. These young men died over there. They were destroyed over there. They were other things when they came home.”

I really wouldn't want someone who has a violent criminal history to get citizenship to be honest. If it is non-violent crime that does not involve crimes involving moral turpitude I don't have an issue giving them another chance.

Also not everyone who served did it honorably or is a good person. I worked with plenty of bad people while I served and deployed with them knowing they were not good people.

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hydrOHxide t1_j7w4r25 wrote

You do realize that can mean an unwillingness to take responsibility for the consequences of their service? Traumatizing people and when they snap, kicking them to the curb?

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sharksnut t1_j87pc3k wrote

They did.

Then, they committed (and were convicted of) felonies, which breaks the deal.

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adam_demamps_wingman t1_j7trprk wrote

About damn time. Thank you, Joe. Again.

They went and did when Bush-Cheney called. Then got stiffed.

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The_Evanator2 t1_j7ttucw wrote

Heard about this but I thought joining the military as a non-citizen is one of the faster and "easier" ways. How did this even happen?

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adam_demamps_wingman t1_j7twtby wrote

There were at least three administrations involved—Bush, Obama, Trump. Some of the earliest cases were personnel who joined after 9-11 on the promise of citizenship after service. Apparently, the military failed to explain/gave misinformation and a number of personnel were deported because they never became citizens. Different flavors developed over the years apparently but some of it was from Trump trying to undo Obama’s program.

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Emotional_Parsnip_69 t1_j7u1azj wrote

There’s a line in our military contracts somewhere that says anything the recruiters say to get you to sign up isn’t necessarily truth. They can promise you the world and it can disappear immediately.

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Synec113 t1_j7ueaxf wrote

And that folks is why you get everything in writing.

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Mallee78 t1_j7ug2ev wrote

I mean irl yes, but if you show the military something a recruiter signed ad say they promised this they will laugh your ass back to your bunk

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Synec113 t1_j7vjh3t wrote

Yeah, that's why you don't do legal stuff yourself (like writing or signing a contract without a lawyer). Contract in writing and isn't being fulfilled? That lawyer is going to cost the military a hell of a lot more than it would if they just gave you what you were promised.

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Mallee78 t1_j7vpwto wrote

Also no way in gods green earth would a recruiter entertain a lawyer when talking to a recruit, they would just tell your ass to get out of their office.

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Synec113 t1_j7zya3k wrote

As is their right. I don't know shit about the military, just how the law works.

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Mallee78 t1_j7vnkbz wrote

The military will just say the recruiter made a decision without permission and get away Scott free

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Synec113 t1_j7zy0sa wrote

I don't know how the boilerplate recruiting contacts work, but if the military isn't honoring a contract then a lawsuit can be filed and a federal court can take effective actions. In the end, it's all about the money. Your lawyers job is to make it cheaper for them to capitulate rather than fight - and given that it's always about the bottom line, they will.

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Mallee78 t1_j800g1k wrote

You severely underestimate the military legal counsel lol

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[deleted] t1_j7ul1hw wrote

In writing doesn't mean shit to the federal government just look at how bad VA benefits are. It's cheaper to grind the meat and leave it to spoil than take care of the service members who get injured.

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Synec113 t1_j7vklio wrote

In writing means a hell of a lot, assuming it was done correctly (by a lawyer). Your lawyer is there to make it grossly more expensive and difficult to not fulfill the contract, such that their best/easiest/cheapest option is to capitulate and do what they agreed to.

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FluffyCatGood t1_j7xvanf wrote

Lol you’re funny. You think the whole military gives a fuck what one lawyer thinks? Just google all the myriad lawsuits against the US military and you’ll get your answer.

Also, in the US the military has more money than god, they will spend your lawyer into the ground.

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Synec113 t1_j7zz4l8 wrote

You're not wrong, there are a lot of shitty lawyers and superfluous lawsuits. However, any lawyer worth their salt knows they will take the cheapest option, as they always do - in everything. Accountants don't give a fuck about ego, just the bottom line. More money than God doesn't matter when outspending you gains them nothing where as a settlement and gag order makes you go away forever.

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Jazeboy69 t1_j7ugytg wrote

Lol that’s just paper and ink what makes you think it means anything legally?

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Synec113 t1_j7vjtn3 wrote

That's why I didn't say 'get an IOU.' Get a lawyer to write and read contracts beforehand, otherwise you're going to get fucked.

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Emotional_Parsnip_69 t1_j7vt47i wrote

Get a lawyer and go to the recruiting station, see if you get anywhere.

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Synec113 t1_j7zygo6 wrote

Didn't say that, I said have a lawyer review things before you sign them - not take them as emotional support lol

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Emotional_Parsnip_69 t1_j801f98 wrote

Either way it doesn’t matter is the point. It’s predatory, and sketchy and they can fully afford to turn people with resources away because ten people without means to hire someone to help them will be in desperate need of something a recruiter can promise them

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rtb001 t1_j7un0j8 wrote

We can keep these benefits and then quit anytime we want?

Yes. Unless of course, war were declared.

--sirens blaring--

What's that?

War were declared.

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Combatical t1_j7ulbtx wrote

I'm sorry I'm not following here. Trump was trying to make sure military personnel that weren't citizens were getting deported? Sounds like him I just want to make sure I have another reason to be pissed at his policies.

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ICanSeeRoundCorners t1_j7umqmb wrote

Most (if not all) of those deported committed crimes. When I first read about this years ago the article highlighted a guy who shot up an occupied (including with children) car and he felt he was unfairly deported.

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Combatical t1_j7usg9z wrote

Are you saying the people in this article committed crimes?

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ICanSeeRoundCorners t1_j7uto3d wrote

Largely, yes. The article says the main guy profiled had a felony conviction. Now that could be a wide range of things; in a lot of cases it's drug related but in a fair amount it's violent crimes.

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Combatical t1_j7uyzfi wrote

Digging around all I can find is this same copy and pasted article. I want to know what he was actually charged with originally. I found some disturbing stuff about a guy with a similar name but I cant be sure its this guy.

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ICanSeeRoundCorners t1_j7vjqn1 wrote

Yeah I wouldn't say that they all deserve deportation. Drug charges are a pretty frequent source of felony convictions and deportation seems unwarranted in those cases. I'm don't think it's unfair to deny citizenship to those who commit violent crimes though. I have don't know what the guy in the article was originally charged with. I do know when I've seen article in the past that profiled/interviewed a couple of these guys, several of them had committed shootings and or robberies.

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gandalf_el_brown t1_j7vbzes wrote

Isn't being in the US illegally considered a felony

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ICanSeeRoundCorners t1_j7vkpsj wrote

I don't know enough to answer for certain. The main guy in this article had a green card though, so he wasn't here illegally, but it was revoked when he was charged or convicted. I imagine most of these guys had similar immigration statuses. I don't think an illegal immigrant can join the military. I'm not an expert though so I might be wrong.

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vt1032 t1_j7w0x5w wrote

No. Illegal entry can be charged as a misdemeanor (8 usc 1325) but rarely is. Illegal re-entry after a formal removal can be charged as a felony (8 usc 1326) but again that's fairly rare and you more see it used in extreme cases where that wasn't the only crime, or in cases of people who repeatedly get caught doing it.

Administrative grounds of inadmissibility resulting in voluntary returns or final/expedited orders of removal are much more common.

If they were unlawfully present (regardless of entry method, so visa overstays and illegal entry) for more than 6 months or more than a year, and then departed the US, that also triggers administrative grounds of inadmissibility that bar later legal re-entry for certain periods of time, but would not be a felony.

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vt1032 t1_j7w0q5y wrote

No. Illegal entry can be charged as a misdemeanor (8 usc 1325) but rarely is. Illegal re-entry after a formal removal can be charged as a felony (8 usc 1326) but again that's fairly rare and you more see it used in extreme cases where that wasn't the only crime, or in cases of people who repeatedly get caught doing it.

Mostly administrative grounds of inadmissibility resulting in voluntary returns or final/expedited orders of removal are much more common.

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adam_demamps_wingman t1_j7v08ni wrote

He banned Muslims entering the country. He separated children we are just now reuniting with their families. Obama had implemented a military employment plan that was tied to citizenship apparently. Trump tried to wash people out then deport them if I understood properly.

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Combatical t1_j7v32zp wrote

Ahh I see. I couldn't find anything on what the gentleman in the article was originally charged for. Most articles just say the charges were "irrelevant".

Personally I think its important information. I served 10 years with a ton of great guys. A majority of us were people of color and non native born citizens thats important too. A bunch of us were great guys and a bunch of us I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw them. But you cant just use a solider and throw them away when you're done.. Oh wait, thats exactly what they do even to native born veterans.

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sharksnut t1_j87pyra wrote

>Trump tried to wash people out then deport them if I understood properly.

You did not. Read the article. This program existed under Bush 43, the deportations were done during Obama/Biden.

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sharksnut t1_j87puat wrote

>Trump was trying to make sure military personnel that weren't citizens were getting deported?

Who was President in 2009 again?

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sharksnut t1_j87pn7d wrote

>a number of personnel were deported because they never became citizens.

All of these men were deported for felony convictions, not because of missed paperwork.

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sharksnut t1_j87pqgf wrote

>some of it was from Trump trying to undo Obama’s program.

Absolutely false. In fact, most if not all of these deportations were done under Obama (look at the dates).

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Kingsnake661 t1_j7v6a26 wrote

I don't understand how they could be noncitizens and serve in the military... If they are willing to die for the country, and that country lets them in the service, how are they NOT automatically a citizen? Can they serve and be deported?? Honest to god never figured that was even possible...

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kerberos188 t1_j7x7tl5 wrote

You can have your status as a resident alien revoked in certain cases of felony convictions. It's more than likely most of these folks fall under that case. In order to serve or be drafted you need to have resident alien status (green card). This can be revoked as mentioned before regardless of prior service. Serving does not guarantee citizenship but can significantly move you along in the process. Happened to my dad and his brothers in the 60s-70s and several guys I served with who processed and got their citizenship while in service. The military WILL NOT put in paperwork for you, you have to notify your command and begin the process yourself through admin.

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gandalf_el_brown t1_j7vc4sj wrote

Democrats tried programs to give them citizenship, Republicans scrapped that during Trump. Similar with the DACa kids.

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sharksnut t1_j87q6jf wrote

>Democrats tried programs to give them citizenship, Republicans scrapped that during Trump.

This is flat false. This legal-status-for-service program goes back to Bush 43. The deportations for the men named in this article were during the Obama/Biden administration.

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cdunk666 t1_j7uzrol wrote

>They went and did when Bush-Cheney called. Then got stiffed.

Seems to be a recurring theme throughout that story

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adam_demamps_wingman t1_j7v0xw8 wrote

Yep. It wasn’t some recruiter telling them they could become citizens. It was the POTUS. Then the military apparently didn’t do too much to make sure their paperwork was in order. Or even bother to tell them there was paperwork.

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Emotional_Parsnip_69 t1_j7v9knd wrote

It’s in the SOP to screw up all paperwork and screw everyone over as much as possible

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doughnutholio t1_j7uwexz wrote

TIL that non citizens can serve in the US armed forces

and then NOT get citizenship

I guess TIL 2 things.

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KayakerMel t1_j7vxoj5 wrote

That's why these deportations were so effed up. Non-citizens serving in the US armed forces have long been told it's a path to citizenship. Heck, I was told this in JROTC over two decades ago.

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doughnutholio t1_j7vytik wrote

so you're a non-US citizen and you do JROTC, then ROTC, then you're an officer and suddenly you're out of status and then boom... you go back to the country of origin on paper???

wtf is that

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sharksnut t1_j87p3r9 wrote

These are cases where the candidates were later convicted of felonies. The amnesty they were given in exchange for service gets revoked when convicted of felonies.

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doughnutholio t1_j87zlcm wrote

were they enlisted before or after they were felons

also... can felons enlist??

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vosbergm t1_j7twole wrote

I have great respect for those who fight for our country. What I don’t understand is how anyone can not be a citizen of the US and serve in the armed forces?

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Emotional_Parsnip_69 t1_j7u158w wrote

They said it was a path to citizenship to go to war. Like how long ago this country gave the deal of if you’re a slave and fight and live for a certain amount of time you can have your freedom. Military and government here have always used recruiting as a predatory practice to get people who desperately need help to basically volunteer their lives for some prize at the end and they hope the people die before they come calling for what they’re owed.

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360walkaway t1_j7uvjl0 wrote

Same for Japanese men who were interned during WW2... "hey we're going to jail you for no real goddamn reason at all but if you join our army and you don't die in the process, you can get your freedom!"

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gechu t1_j7vb5p1 wrote

Sounds like Wagner... shudder

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Neee-wom t1_j7u5uqb wrote

My uncle is a Canadian citizen and served in two tours of Vietnam for the US as a medic

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ilielayinginmylair t1_j7uxg31 wrote

Many of these guys were permanent residents, green card holders, who hoped to get citizenship as one of the benefits of joining.

They got screwed.

They all deserve citizenship and their spouse & kids as well.

The US also screwed many interpreters, guides and other staff in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan. They deserve refuge status in the US at minimum.

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tdogg241 t1_j7uotdy wrote

"deported veterans"

What the fuck are we even doing?

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Emotional_Parsnip_69 t1_j7v9vvt wrote

Business as usual. You either live long enough to get deported after volunteering to possibly die for a country or you die after the VA drives you to madness or messes up your medications until they never have to deal with you again. ‘Murica

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ComprehensiveCake463 t1_j7uitw1 wrote

A terrible betrayal, glad some of this is getting resolved

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blue_field_pajarito t1_j7va4j4 wrote

I don’t know why but “a terrible betrayal” sums up a lot of our immigration history in my eyes, and this takes the cake. So glad this was rectified even for a few. It’s a truly joyous occasion to get citizenship.

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Meig03 t1_j7ubn9m wrote

I'm glad we finally did the right thing for these veterans.

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HenryGrosmont t1_j7umcpq wrote

Deportation of veterans is a shameful business. Glad, at least, some finally got their citizenship.

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SteveMcQueen15 t1_j7v76z0 wrote

I had a friend in high school who joined the Marines to keep his family from being deported and it always seemed so dystopian to me that he had to do that just so he and his family could stay here.

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Zombebe t1_j7v286t wrote

I've been wanting and waiting for this for so long. You know that they, after serving their country and being deported, still saluted the American flag regularly afterwards? If you you're willing to fight and die for a country you're a citizen.

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BertzReynolds t1_j7uz7rb wrote

Never should they ever have been deported.

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sabersquirl t1_j7vrfy8 wrote

Reminds me of the late Roman Empire.

Romans: Hey Germanic barbarians, if you join our military and defend us for a few decades, you and your families will receive citizenship and land to settle in!

Also the Romans after the Germans defend them for years: Soooooooooo about that whole land and citizenship thing…… How about we don’t do that, sorry guys….

The Germans: Bro we control the majority of your military. We are just going to take half your empire you little shits.

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Joseluki t1_j7w3wsn wrote

My cousin is an American citizen, she has never lived in the USA, now she had kids with a Dutch man she married, because how the laws are in the USA she cannot ask for her kids to be citizens. Her father (who she has not spoken to in 20 years) is the one who has to request citizenship for the kids.

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LupusDeusMagnus t1_j7uoj0g wrote

Why the hell you’re are fighting for a country not your own, unless it’s some highly idealistic kind of thing.

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Flako118st t1_j7vcllw wrote

You may not understand it. But most of us love this country, because we saw the before in our home countries. It's difficult but we do love this country. A shelter,a home, I wish I had the words,but for me as Mexican when I was allowed to travel I noticed how bad it is. I can call the cops,go to a hospital and even will be given free food,that's not the same in our home countries. First you pay ,and then you get help. That's it. This country took me in and I'll fight for it if needed. Idk if that makes sense.

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LupusDeusMagnus t1_j7w38eu wrote

Apparently you have to live in the US to join the US army - I thought it was just people joining the US army like in Ukraine or Spain. It made things a bit more sensical, still stupid they don’t get political rights - if you put your life on the line for a country the bare minimum it could do was to concede you full political and civil rights.

Specially messed up because, you know, the US is somewhat fond of war crimes and what not, but they actually have the power to just say fuck you to the International courts and protect its war criminals from prosecution. In cases like these, of non citizens being deported, it kinda opens the opportunity for them to get sent to an international court. Basically doing that government dirty work and then being thrown to the wolves.

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ContactLeft7417 t1_j7yp0dr wrote

As a Mexican who's lived in the US I highly disagree. I can live way better here. Hell, even US citizens are realizing they can too and moving in droves.

You can afford rent with minimum wage, for starters.

1

seakingsoyuz t1_j7ur9hm wrote

You have to be a citizen or permanent resident to enlist. PRs are trying to make it their country.

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Sunshineinanchorage t1_j7uxc6i wrote

join the U.S. military, non-citizens must be living permanently and legally in the United States. Non-citizens must also have permission to work in the United States, possess an I-551 (Permanent Residence Card), have obtained a high school diploma and speak English.

Undocumented immigrants are generally barred from serving in the military, though occasionally (especially in times of military need) an undocumented person might be allowed to join the armed forces in spite of this rule.

If you are serving or have served in the U.S. armed forces and are interested in becoming a U.S. citizen, you may be eligible to apply for naturalization under special provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).

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LupusDeusMagnus t1_j7uvrbp wrote

PR? Still, the order is all wrong. You should have political rights before you’re sent to die. I cannot comprehend it being the other way around.

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ProgressiveSnark2 OP t1_j7yardd wrote

PR stands for permanent resident--a term for an immigrant who has legal status for an extended period of time but is not a citizen. That can be someone on a special visa or a green card.

Oftentimes, if a family is here on a green card, the kids may end up considering enlisting.

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Sunshineinanchorage t1_j7uy4gs wrote

Certain political rights do not extend themselves to non citizens. (I know…sucks). Also remember that serving in the armed forces is a choice. All members are basic riflemen irrespective of mos.

1

Somebodycalled911 t1_j8024gd wrote

Is it non-sensical, and even gruesome? Sure is. Then again, "non-sensical and even gruesome" could be the moto for the US and Canada's immigration and citizenship policy :(

1