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DankVectorz t1_j8jduml wrote

Not because EV’s are getting cheaper, but because ICE cars are just getting more expensive


ohiotechie t1_j8qbwop wrote

This is exactly what I wondered when I read the headline.


MasteroChieftan t1_j8kivz2 wrote

If Toyota had balls they would release a fully electric Corolla with 300 mi range.


SilverNicktail t1_j8kjxlo wrote

The Japanese manufacturers have in general been dragging their feet on EVs, unfortunately.


muldervinscully t1_j8lfavo wrote

Japan is not known for making decisions quickly


DavidHewlett t1_j8luqvp wrote

As someone who has worked for a Japanese company: holy shit is this true. “Fail fast, fail often” is a completely foreign concept to them.


jimdandy19 t1_j8ky3qp wrote

I've had an EV for less than a year, and I've already seen so many more models become available and more advertising. I haven't seen a whole lot of new charging infrastructure, though. There's going to be a lot of frustrated people out there if sales pick up rapidly.


muldervinscully t1_j8lfbzk wrote

Yeah you gotta be able to charge at home. Way cheaper too


toadofsteel t1_j8mjl8s wrote

So once again, renters are fucked.

It's so much more expensive to be poor in this country.


chemicalrefugee t1_j9cktp5 wrote

A huge number of people go their entire lives without buying a new car. They do this because they can't afford to buy a new car. All those people are going to be screwed.


Antrophis t1_j8llvbd wrote

How much does it cost to install a charge station?


davidgrayPhotography t1_j8mdy3p wrote

Zero dollars if you use a standard wall charger. Otherwise between $1k and $2.5k Australian dollars for a decent charger.

The fuel savings would cover that reasonably quickly


dentalgirl74 t1_j8okp6f wrote

Our level 2 charger (hardwired juice box) retailed for around $650 USD. We had a credit of over $300 from our energy provider’s online shop to help with the cost. Installation was done by a neighbor who is a union electrician for $200 in labor and $100 in materials.


Rheum42 t1_j8pxou8 wrote

And that's the part they forget to talk about. What about states that already have a failing electric grid?


Merv71 t1_j8j9pgg wrote

Could = Wont


SilverNicktail t1_j8kjtnr wrote

Citation: Anus


Xyrus2000 t1_j8l9jlj wrote

Citation: Math

Chevy Bolt: $26K

Comparative ICE: $26K

Average commute: 41 miles a day.


Average price of electricity: $0.16/kwh

A typical EV will average around 4 miles per kwh.

Cost of commute per year EV: $426

Maintenance cost per mile for EV (according to FOEERE): $0.06

Maintenance cost per year EV: $640

Total EV Annual Cost: $1066


Average price gas: $3.41/gallon

Average MPG of car: 35 mpg

Cost of commute per year gas: $1038

Maintenance cost per mile gas (according to FOEERE): $0.10

Maintenance cost per year gas: $1066

Total ICE Annual Cost: $2104


The ICE on average costs about $1038 more per year than an EV. If you have solar, that gap widens even more.

Even without solar, if you swapped the ICE for a hybrid the EV is still cheaper by quite a bit.


Antrophis t1_j8lm02j wrote

If you can get a home charger sure otherwise still a hard no.


PerpetualProtracting t1_j8lyvhu wrote

EVs can plug straight into a standard outlet. Unless you're driving huge distances daily you simply don't need a home fast charger.


Xyrus2000 t1_j8mjecs wrote

I have a Chevy Bolt myself, and I don't have a home charger. I just use the regular charger and plug it into a normal outlet.

If you're going to be driving for long distances on a regular basis then you'll want to consider a home charger if your place of work/destination does not have a charging station.


surfingNerd t1_j8jbkpd wrote

$ (EV + electricity ) is lower than $ (ice car + gasoline) already, by a lot. That doesn't include maintenance.


bingold49 t1_j8jf3os wrote

By a lot? The average EV price is 66k while the average ICE vehicle is 44k. Even at 50 bucks a week in gas it would take 10 years to make up the difference


videodromejockey t1_j8jn00n wrote

It’s not just gas. Gas, oil, brakes and rotors(due to regenerative/one pedal braking, electrics don’t consume them as aggressively), spark plugs and coil packs, transmission fluid, differential fluid for some AWD models, diesel DEF fluid. There are a ton of consumables in gas/diesel cars. Even in my fairly low maintenance car I’ll spend about $2000 in consumables over a five year period, even before gas enters the picture.

And that’s ignoring the potential failure of gas/diesel components that don’t exist on electric cars. Turbos, exhaust systems, high and low pressure fuel pumps, the many many air/fuel sensors involved in running a car like MAP, MAF, IAT sensors, injectors, water pumps, these are all non-wear items that commonly fail and can represent hundreds or thousands in repairs. Now granted electric cars have their own unique components - but not nearly as many as gas cars.


[deleted] t1_j8kvlkg wrote



videodromejockey t1_j8l5pwo wrote

If you think replacing EV batteries is common, you're drinking the oil koolaid. Current generation EV batteries will last the lifetime of the car, with many manufacturers having battery warranties in the 150k mile range. There isn't a single ICE car company on the planet warrantying their engines for 150k miles.


bingold49 t1_j8k0xm8 wrote

If you're a buying a brand new vehicle, it comes with a warranty that's going to cover much of that, tack on 150 a year in oil changes maybe


videodromejockey t1_j8k1aae wrote

For three years, maybe. But that hardly matters because if you buy new you’re eating shit on depreciation. Warranties also do not include maintenance items, so all your consumables as already mentioned.


Xyrus2000 t1_j8l3868 wrote

This is an example of how to use statistics incorrectly. You are comparing a restricted market that was originally targeted more towards the luxury market with initial offerings to a highly competitive market loaded with tons of low-end models.

Tesla literally made up 2/3 of the market for EVs. That's going to give a ridiculously skewed metric when trying to compare against the broad ICE market.


LilyWhitesN17 t1_j8jiejv wrote

I'm not anti-EV, but the basic math doesn't add up, and as soon as you point out something like this, you're a shill for big oil. Looking at a few models, Hybrid vs. EV of the same vehicle, there is still a $10K difference in price.


bingold49 t1_j8jk7v6 wrote

The bottom line is that it is still a bit of a luxury and for many people out of the question just because of where they live and not having as much infrastructure in place. As time goes on, that may change as EVs and the infrastructure become more prevalent but we aren't there yet. The question I have is whether a synthetic fuel of some sort (especially something existing cars can easily be converted to) come to market prior to a full move to EV.


surfingNerd t1_j8jxiqn wrote

So, you are comparing a luxury EV price, vs an average ICE-car?

Yes, if you are already buying a car, of similar price as an EV, get the EV. Has cars will start to deprecate much more, when you see gas stations and mechanics shops closing.


bingold49 t1_j8k11dt wrote

No I'm comparing the average of each type of vehicle


Xyrus2000 t1_j8l45jk wrote

No, you are disingenuously comparing two dissimilar markets and misapplying statistics to try and validate your argument.


Bearman71 t1_j8k108k wrote

Average vehicle cost is a bit off though. There's a number of evs out there for less than 66k you can buy the 35-45k electric vehicle if you want.


bingold49 t1_j8k18xt wrote

You can also roll the dice on needing a 15k dollar battery replacement, we are talking new purchase vehicles in this article


Xyrus2000 t1_j8l4dru wrote

What are you talking about? Battery packs/drive train are warrantied for just as long, if not longer, than ICE engines.


Bearman71 t1_j8k1cx8 wrote

That's not even close to being part of the discussion, but I also don't keep cars past their warranty period.


bingold49 t1_j8k1zxk wrote

Ok, we are still talking average price, every new ice vehicle doesn't start at 44k


Xyrus2000 t1_j8l4gzk wrote

Every new EV doesn't start at 66k either. What's your point?


Bearman71 t1_j8k2j1s wrote

Ice cars also don't have a tesla that registered every trim line of the model s as a different car fucking up the averages.


bingold49 t1_j8k3rze wrote

But they also don't have 15k Nissan sentras on the other side of that


Bearman71 t1_j8k4f71 wrote

They do have a 26k leaf so electric vehicles are still affordable, sure. You're not buying a tesla loaded with the big fuck off battery, 4 motors, super cruise, and every other option, but affordable options are out there if you want one.


Xyrus2000 t1_j8l4vpb wrote

How long has ICE technology been around in mass production?

You really are hell-bent on comparing apples to oranges. EV prices continue to drop. There are several options for EVs in the mid $20K range. Add in the fact that EVs require a fraction of the maintenance and that $10K or so price difference starts looking pretty small.


Ineludible_Ruin t1_j8lbyea wrote

What EVs are readily available (outside of tesla) that are around the size of a normal car, civic, sentra, accord, camry... that are similar price to the ice versions I just named? (Maybe some of those have an ev version?)


Xyrus2000 t1_j8mk09i wrote

The Nissan Leaf and the Chevy Bolt are in that price range. There are a couple of others that get into that price range with incentives, but the usefulness of incentives depends on your taxes.


Ineludible_Ruin t1_j8n2hwr wrote

The leaf has always seemed so small to me, though it is 10inches shorter than a civic. I don't get why they're so.... aesthetically unappealing. That's just an opinion though. Same for the chevy bolt. Those EVs and the prius have similar looks and hatchback... the Teslas look more like a normal car like the civic or accord or camry. Maybe there's a reason the others look like that. Aerodynamics while Tesla isn't quite that concerned about it?


wishyouwouldread t1_j8jdxt4 wrote

Automotive and Oil companies have created the problem. To bad we can't make them fix it.


Sword_Thain t1_j8mw3y5 wrote

I'd love my next vehicle to be an EV.

Difficulty: I am 6' 6" with bad knees


johndoe73684168 t1_j8jdzp2 wrote

Related, there have been breakthroughs with lithium-air batteries which will reach energy density similar to gas.


zewn t1_j8m904o wrote

In South Africa, because we are so backward, EV's come with a huge extra tax. So we are screwed either way.


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landdon t1_j8mich0 wrote

I'm waiting on the Toyota car that is like a big leap for mileage cost. Maybe things are starting to even out.


Maycrofy t1_j8n1h8m wrote

In the future, the climbing cost of individual vehicles made public transportation the most convenient form of moving.


Blargenth t1_j8na60q wrote

Oooooh! I saw a post yesterday that led me to believe the price of recharging an electric car was some how getting closer to fuel prices!


bottleboy8 t1_j8jc0kn wrote

The batteries in my last cell phone lasted 5 years before they couldn't be charged anymore. Had to get a new phone.

My last gas car lasted 23 years.


BigCountry76 t1_j8jivaw wrote

Pretty sure the battery cells and battery management system is an EV is a bit more advanced than your phone.

There are tons of EVs with well over 100k mile and 90%+ of the original range.


WorBlux t1_j8ltr13 wrote

Calendar ageing will still get you. And 80% is more or less considered EOL for an automotive pack.

If you are hitting 100,000 mi in 3-4 years, EV's durability compares favorably with ICE.

If you are doing 4-5k miles/year, the ICE wins, because it goes 15-20 years before falling apart, and usually not one super-expensive component at once.


bottleboy8 t1_j8jqm1o wrote

> Pretty sure the battery cells and battery management system is an EV is a bit more advanced than your phone.

Same lithium ion batteries. And how you use and charge the batteries matters. As well as hot and cold extreme weather.

>90%+ of the original range.

Exactly. The batteries degrade quickly. They may not completely fail, but after the first charge they start degrading. You'll lose 10% of the charge capacity and range of the vehicle in the first two years.

Replacing the batteries is extremely expensive. And can cost up to $20k.


BigCountry76 t1_j8jsq6g wrote

You definitely don't lose 10% range in two years and the battery chemistry and quality is not the same as a phone.

But you clearly have your mind made up to ignore facts so no point in debating with you.


Ok-Development8745 t1_j8kvr6f wrote

Battery technology hasn’t changed.


Hotkoin t1_j8lfmfn wrote

Truly, we still use the voltaic pile even to this day. I drag my 300 kg mobile phone around with me and have to regularly swap out the vinegar soaked sheets of fabric to keep the screen on.


Ok-Development8745 t1_j8lfrsh wrote

You know what I mean. Of course I’m not being literal. We have made no significant advancements in battery technology in a long time.


Hotkoin t1_j8lgmm2 wrote

Quite a stretch of a statement there.

That's kinda like saying a smartphone using a lithium ion battery from 10 years ago is about as dense as a current smartphone lithium ion battery


Hotkoin t1_j8lghbc wrote

Quite a stretch of a statement there.

That's kinda like saying a smartphone using a lithium ion battery from 10 years ago is about as dense as a current smartphone lithium ion battery


Ok-Development8745 t1_j8lgmh1 wrote

The fact that we’re still using lithium ion jfc man just nvm you’re clearly just looking for a combative argument and I’m not trying to fight. Good nite


Hotkoin t1_j8lgrds wrote

Just because the current wave of batteries and batteries from 10 years ago are called lithium ion doesn't mean they're the same thing.

Kinda like saying rubber tires 100 years ago are the same as rubber tires now


Uninvited_Goose t1_j8k8kab wrote

Don't worry, Their Environmental impact is about the same.


MasteroChieftan t1_j8kizaf wrote

It's not. An electric car does not burn oil once it is produced.


samsounder t1_j8ky64n wrote

This is just wrong. Also, the subs rules are here for a reason.