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minnesotaris t1_javy206 wrote

Highly probable that this is not the end of their woes. Source: I work in pediatrics.

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TheRomanRuler t1_jawupjt wrote

I can absolutely believe that. But what exactly might happen from now on? They might never become fully developed?

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minnesotaris t1_jax2o97 wrote

Piles of stuff that would take a lot to write about. There is a probability that there will be no effects whatsoever yet that is small. Very important natural processes happen during the last 10-16 weeks that medicine can simulate. To spend nearly the entirety of one's first six month alive, if not more, in the hospital has profound affects. Then, it can be doctor appts as far as the eye can see. The study of pediatric trauma related to continuous medical attention during the pediatric times is growing. It is disruptive to say the least. It is not how humans have lived at all until around the last 60 or so years.

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stuck_behind_a_truck t1_jaxfbqy wrote

My daughter (born 2000) had to go back to the NICU at 3 days old and was in the hospital 10 days. She was hospitalized again at 6 months thanks to RSV. We are only now linking her mental health issues to this trauma. I’m pretty sure she has Complex PTSD. But at the time the prevailing attitude was that babies will not form memories so they wouldn’t be affected. We lost a lot of time to help her. We are obviously doing what we can now with psychiatric help and trauma therapy.

I’m glad this field of study is growing. While it seems obvious now that trauma would stick around, you just genuinely don’t know as a new mother and trust what doctors tell you. I would have done many things differently as a young mom if I had a more trauma informed mindset at the time.

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minnesotaris t1_jaxk3lq wrote

Most certainly. It is VERY complex for the child. Paternalistic medicine had/has these unfounded theories that they still practice with, namely in women’s care, pediatrics, mental health. And it’s not limited to only male providers. Thx for sharing!

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Sugarshaney t1_jaxaof8 wrote

Ya. Tbh. If it were me, I couldn’t imagine putting my twins through that. I would have just listened to the doctors advice of no medical care. But with 3 of my own, I totally support their decision. Just feel bad for them.

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minnesotaris t1_jaxc1dz wrote

Pediatric medicine does good things. In severe cases of disease, it really beats the shit of kids who either don't understand or don't have the maturity to go through it.

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TheWayOfTheLeaf t1_jayp4er wrote

My twins were born 10 weeks early, weighing about 2.5 pounds each. Our neonatologists and other specialists all told us that they were very lucky to be as healthy as they were and not have any major disabilities. Lucky has meant heart murmurs, difficulty gaining weight and growing, reflux, chronic constipation, feeding issues requiring therapy, physical delays and disabilities requiring therapy, multiple surgeries, compromised immune systems, and more. They're six now and if you didn't know you'd think they are typical kindergartners. We currently have specialists for Physical Therapy, Urology, Gastroenterology, Endocrinology, and Psychiatry. And we are the lucky ones. Parents of these preemies need to prepare for a lifetime of complications, doctors visits, stress, fear, and trauma. These kids will have to fight for every milestone. At what point does it become unethical to keep babies alive and force them through a life of suffering? My kids are happy and have excellent quality of life and I still sometimes feel guilty for everything they have to deal with. It is a very complicated topic for sure.

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sj4iy t1_jazjjdc wrote

I think it’s something that should be less taboo to talk about. There’s a reluctance in the medical community to talk about palliative care or hospice for infants, but it’s important for parents to be knowledgeable about all treatment options as well as alternative options. Palliative care should not be treated as “the last resort”.

I’m really glad your children are doing well. My son was not premature, but he does have mild disabilities…and even then it can be overwhelming.

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TheWayOfTheLeaf t1_jb0n7gk wrote

Yes I agree. In my experience, from the outside looking in people only see the survival. I have PTSD from everything we went through but all I ever hear is oh look how good they're doing now! You guys made it! And yeah I'm grateful and I adore my children. But this has been an uphill battle for all of us, it's not over, and it's like we aren't supposed to acknowledge that at all. Just shut up and be happy they lived. I am, but it's still fucking hard.

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copyboy1 t1_jaxa5ag wrote

Yeah, my mom was an ECMO Unit neonatal nurse for decades. Kids born this early that survive often have lots of other developmental issues.

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minnesotaris t1_jaxci7p wrote

I have seen very small kids on ECMO and dialysis at the same time. Along with that, a ventilator and myriad intravenous medicines. Like, very small kids on 100% life support, if not even greater than 100% in abstract terms.

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blackchristopher OP t1_javhrtw wrote

Weighing just 330 g (0.72 lb), baby girl Adiah was born 23 minutes before her brother, Adrial, who weighed 420 g (0.92 lb). At a combined 750 g (1.65 lb), they are the lightest twins at birth ever.

The record-breaking Nadarajah twins entered the world at a gestational age of exactly 22 weeks. If they’d been born even one hour earlier, no attempt would have been made to save their lives.

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barryabrams t1_jawbb0r wrote

Wow! We had a son a few years ago who weighed 490 g at birth (who’s doing well now). It’s hard to imagine a baby born smaller who survived. 500 g was considered the weight of viability at our hospital.

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[deleted] t1_javrsol wrote

[deleted]

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tmacforthree t1_jayws1d wrote

Doesn't feel like a contest as I'm sure no (sane) mother would compete for this record

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CDMT22 t1_jazkr25 wrote

I know of someone born at 23 weeks, 5 days and their twin was born 5 days later. They are now 20 years old and, looking at them, you would never know!!

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blackjackgabbiani t1_javixk6 wrote

Goddamn I'd be leveling a mental distress charge at that hospital if they were constantly telling me to take my babies off of support. And then of course denying care...but what's going on there, since they're clearly hooked up to some machines, so why didn't they just do that from the beginning?

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Azrael2027 t1_javl29w wrote

There is a point where if your born too early, death is a better alternative than developing out of the womb. These babies suffered constant skin peeling, brain bleeding, perforation, spesis, and more due to their premature status.

In a way this story is a kind of cruelty to these children, and they may have lifelong disability depending on how they came out.

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noahlizard7 t1_jawpgn3 wrote

Their endocrine issues are going to be insane as well, good chance neither hit puberty healthy

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blackchristopher OP t1_javnst2 wrote

Since being discharged, Adiah has been growing “really well” and meeting all the milestones for her corrected age

Adrial has been admitted back to the hospital twice since being discharged, spending several weeks fighting off infections and respiratory issues. After returning from his last hospitalization, he required home oxygen support.

Adrial has now outgrown his twin sister and is “progressing well.”

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Azrael2027 t1_jax667d wrote

I missed the “meeting all milestones” aspect of the article, that’s wonderful to hear. I hope life treats them well, and if it does that could mean more for premature babies that would have ended up worse off

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[deleted] t1_javj0ri wrote

[deleted]

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Azrael2027 t1_javkrli wrote

Babies who were expected to die in front of parents who wanted them, after months and months of complications, ended up alive an well and in care of loving parents.

It also shows advance in natal care, advance in our understanding of development in and out of the womb, and gives some hope for many parents who have experienced troubled pregnancies.

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maxsocial t1_jawjtes wrote

> The record-breaking Nadarajah twins entered the world at a gestational age of exactly 22 weeks. If they’d been born even one hour earlier, no attempt would have been made to save their lives.

> The only consolation the hospital could offer was ‘comfort care,’ whereby the babies would be placed on top of Shakina while they slowly passed away.

This is so messed up. If there’s a chance and the parents want to try, the doctors should do everything in their power to save their lives.

Their 0% chance of survival assessment has clearly been proven wrong.

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sj4iy t1_jawnd93 wrote

These children will likely have many developmental delays and disabilities. These news stories only show when the baby is brought home…they never show the interventions, the delays, the problems in school, etc.

Medicine has basically chosen quantity of life over quality of life. That’s not a good thing.

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TessySue2002 t1_jawwxyl wrote

I’m a parent of a former 24 week micropreemie. He’s 20 months old now and his only complication is a feeding tube that he will not need eventually and slight developmental delays. Yes, the probability for disability is high with a micropreemie, but it is not definite. We were given a choice the night I went into labor whether or not we wanted them to intervene for our son. Trust me, nothing in your life prepares you for that conversation. It is a nightmare that you never expect. You do not know what choice you would make unless that becomes your reality. I am thankful for modern medicine. My son is walking and learning how to talk. Modern medicine has given families like ours an unimaginable gift.

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minnieboss t1_jay6few wrote

People with developmental delays and disabilities' lives are just as worthy as those without.

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sj4iy t1_jaykwdt wrote

I never once said they weren’t. I have a child with autism that I love very much.

However…it’s stupid to think that every parent has the means and ability to take care of a child with even minor disabilities. Because it’s a huge strain on marriage, on finances, and on any other children the parents may have.

My husband and I have the means that care for our son, even if he never becomes independent. Not everyone does. Not everyone can afford the therapists and interventions a child may need. Not everyone can take the time off from work to take their child to various therapists. Not everyone can afford to fight the school to get their child and IEP or para or get the school to pay the tuition on a private school that would help their child more.

My son had relatively mild disabilities and it has been very difficult. My husband and I are lucky, that we have the ability to help him. But not everyone is able to. And that should be acknowledged.

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Bot_Marvin t1_jax13lp wrote

So you want to kill the developmentally delayed? Or not even that, kill someone because they might be disabled in the future.

Are you one of the good guys?

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malachi347 t1_jawxuef wrote

The record was beaten by 1 day. So... The Guinness people just trust the Mr and Mrs when they say the date they did the deed? Or does there need to be "documentation" of the conception... Something tells me they just made the conception day one day longer to get media traction.

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[deleted] t1_jax09ha wrote

[deleted]

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malachi347 t1_jaxqfe3 wrote

lol I know how it works, I have several children too. I was mostly trying to be funny, but the nugget of reality despite your confidence and downvotes is that they can't tell the difference down to the days. OB's are the first to admit that conception/gestation dates aren't always perfect, accurate or factual. They can be off by as much as two weeks (looked it up). So yeah, the cynic in me thinks the numbers may have been biased as I'm sure the "record" is widely circulated in that medical circle and a feel-good, fudge-able record like this is prime real estate for news, Guiness, and social media looking for clicks. Anyways, I'll just close with, again, I was trying to be more comedic than specific.

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